Thread Number: 44215  /  Tag: Pre-1950 Vacuum Cleaners
Vintage Royal Vacuum project
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Post# 460331   2/15/2023 at 17:44 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Hi everyone,
Iím new to this forum but have been reading on here for awhile. Iím posting because I recently purchased an early Royal vacuum that I would like to restore. Unfortunately one of the wheels was damaged in shipping and the handle switch plate is not original. Iím also trying to determine whether the bag is original or if it was a later replacement. I have read that this is an earlier style fan housing but have not been able to determine the date of the machine. Im looking for any helpful input as I start restoring this machine and Iíd like to put back to as close to original condition as possible. Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Ben


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Post# 460332 , Reply# 1   2/15/2023 at 18:07 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
You

lesinutah's profile picture
Bought the royal I was watching. Iirc it's a model 189. The wheels on the front should both be replaced so they match. The handle to me from the fork up looks wrong. The bag might be original but it's hard to tell. I'm guessing your vacuum is late 40s early 50s. It could be older. The model is older than my 235. You should ask around royal parts may be available. There is a thread by onery, benand Jeff have a royal model timeline and history.
I'd recommend taking the nozzle off the fan bearing plate armature and carbon brushes. Get a pressure washer but spray a degreaser cleaner soak it in and power spray it. Let it dry completely. I did this on my 235 and it saved alot of time.
The height adjustment knob doesn't look right.
Don't take my post as gospel its an educated guess from a person who owns 10-15 royals.
Good luck more pics.


Post# 460336 , Reply# 2   2/15/2023 at 18:27 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks for your reply, the model tag says model 148 on it but Iím not sure when it was made. I found this advertisement that shows a model 148 but it has the bag attached to the opposite side of the machine. Iím not sure when they started making the model 148

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Post# 460341 , Reply# 3   2/15/2023 at 18:46 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Duh

lesinutah's profile picture
The vacuum is older than I mentioned. I know the early royals have the bag on the left. I don't know the model plate is correct. I'm attaching a thread about my model 98. I believe my model 98 is mid 1930's. If you look my vacuum is old and the bag is on the opposite side of where yours is. Then look at my handle it has the model patents on the plate.
Your is likely older than mine and the handle is wrong but the height adjustment is original.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lesinutah's LINK


Post# 460342 , Reply# 4   2/15/2023 at 19:02 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Thread

lesinutah's profile picture
www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bi...
That's the royal thread. You have to download the link ornery has on the first post


Post# 460343 , Reply# 5   2/15/2023 at 19:40 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thank you for providing that link! A lot of great info there. It seems like itís safe to say that at least the fan housing and motor of this machine are pre 1928? Perhaps other parts have been switched out over the years? The bag appears to be a later bag but it does look like an earlier style closure on top. Maybe a factory replacement? It would be great to make a reproduction bag to match what the original would have looked like. Iím not sure if the model tag is original. Maybe someone can chime in and determine whether or not this is a model 148 or which model it actually is. Thanks again.
Ben


Post# 460350 , Reply# 6   2/16/2023 at 03:22 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH)        
Hi Ben,

hygiene903's profile picture
Your early Royal was built in 1928 or before, as that was the year they moved the bag outlet to the other side of the fan case and changed the rotation of the motor. The month and year of manufacture is stamped on the armature, but I wouldn't recommend tearing the motor apart just to verify the age. However, if you need to tear it down for repairs, then it would be OK. Since the housing is all cast aluminum, it will look absolutely beautiful once you get it cleaned up and polished! Your bag is not original, although it does appear to be a genuine Royal bag from the late 40's or early 50's that someone altered to make it fit. Your cord and switch and plate are replacements too.
Here's a couple pics of my early Straight Suction Royal from 1926 and my 215 from the late 40's-early 50's. I'm also missing a wheel from my early Royal, and I think the armature needs turned, as it sounds good but sparks badly. This pic was taken before I started working on it. The 215 is pictured to show you where your bag may have come from. Good luck with your restoration,
Jeff


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Post# 460351 , Reply# 7   2/16/2023 at 04:49 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Hi Jeff,
Thank you for your reply! Those are very nice vacs you have. Itís amazing that your early Royal has its original bag. Would you say that the data tag on mine has been changed? When you have time, I was wondering if you could please share an image of what the handle switch should look like. Maybe an image of your data tag as well. Thanks and I will update the thread as I start making progress on this project!


Post# 460353 , Reply# 8   2/16/2023 at 08:50 by human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
Just an (un)educated guess, but it looks like what you have is a 'frankenvac', made up of parts from several different machines. It's sort of like the family axe that's been in the family for 200 years and has only had four new handles and two new heads.

Post# 460359 , Reply# 9   2/16/2023 at 13:48 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
Ben ,Well the model plate is not correct ! remove it and you should find a serial number engraved on the motor housing which differs numbers from that on your plate! the switch has been replaced ! the black paint on the handle indicates that your vacuum cleaner is a royal standard marketed from 1925 ! the bag is obviously an original factory replacement bag . you are also missing the clamp to attach the bag to the air outlet nozzle . I am attaching some photos to help you.
Romain


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Post# 460360 , Reply# 10   2/16/2023 at 14:08 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
a model G put on the market in 1919 with its switch like Jeff Schroff's ROYAL, the royal logo is still embossed on the bag you can also notice that the 2 small metal grease nipples on the engine are slightly higher than on the model H from 1920

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Post# 460364 , Reply# 11   2/16/2023 at 16:39 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I appreciate all of the helpful replies and great reference material! It sounds like I will at least need a wheel, bag, bag clip, switch and data tag to make this machine correct. I have ideas of how I could reproduce some of these parts. Hopefully I can find some of them eventually although I realize that could be a tall order. The fan appears to be in good shape and the motor spins freely with no odd sounds. Iím excited to begin disassembly and see if I can determine specific date of the machine. So that Royal Standard bag would have most likely been the correct one for this machine? I wonder if anyone has a good straight on image of the graphic used on that bag? Maybe an advertisement where that graphic was used that I could replicate. Thanks again

Post# 460366 , Reply# 12   2/16/2023 at 17:05 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
here is a photo of a royal standard property of tom gasko it seems to me zupimages.net/up/23/07/rtpk.jpg... (direct links to the high resolution photo)
I hope this will help you .
Romain


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Post# 460367 , Reply# 13   2/16/2023 at 17:36 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Wow thatís fantastic! Much appreciated!

Post# 460370 , Reply# 14   2/16/2023 at 18:45 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
Ben ,I am sending you several links from an English collector who has restored a ROYAL vacuum cleaner with two incomplete vacuum cleaners for an American collector














Post# 460373 , Reply# 15   2/16/2023 at 19:07 by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

huskyvacs's profile picture
How funny, I got a Health-Mor vacuum and the same wheel broke in the same way in shipping.

You will have to glue the wheel, as there is no way to get a replacement unless you can find someone that can 3D-print replica wheels. Good news is that both yours and mine broke above the wheel hub, so it is not structurally compromised and glue will hold it.

If anyone knows a glue that would be safe to use, please tell. I am not sure what material it is made from. It looks like some kind of graphite composite or something. I'm not sure if modern glues would eat away at it.

Also for the bag connection. the good news is Royal never changed their bag connection type. I fit a plain gray bag for a Royal 801 on my Health-Mor and it is a perfect fit. It matches really nicely too. I hope to someday find the original bag but as a place-holder the replacement bag works well.


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Post# 460375 , Reply# 16   2/16/2023 at 19:55 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Funny

lesinutah's profile picture
Uneducated guess. My health mor has the same busted wheel on the same side as both of you.

Post# 460385 , Reply# 17   2/17/2023 at 04:37 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH)        
Hi Ben,

hygiene903's profile picture
Thank you for the compliment, and here are a couple pics that I hope will be of help. The first is a close-up of the handle. You will notice mine has an unusual push-button switch that goes through the handle. The second is a close-up of the fan case and nozzle. That's about as good as I can do for now for a pic of the data plate. Mine doesn't have a model number, just a serial number of 483480. I agree with Romain, looks like your nameplate is from a later model. Like the other pic I posted of this Royal, these were taken before I did any work on it.
Huskyvacs, if you look at the picture of the fan case and nozzle, you will see that Royal did indeed change their bag connection type, at the same time they moved the bag outlet from one side to the other. The older style was oblong instead of round, and you pulled up on the ring on top to remove it.
Jeff


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Post# 460389 , Reply# 18   2/17/2023 at 08:18 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Those videos are great! That handle switch is really interesting Jeff. It sort of reminds me of a lamp switch design. I did find the piece of wheel in he box that the vacuum was shipped in. Iíd also be interested in knowing what epoxy would be best for putting it back together. I began disassembly and removed the nameplate. It looks like the number on the housing is 341543.

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Post# 460392 , Reply# 19   2/17/2023 at 10:16 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
Thanks Jeff for adding pictures! your push-button switch is the switch of a 1919 model G zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...

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Post# 460393 , Reply# 20   2/17/2023 at 10:39 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
here are 3 pictures of B.C. Electric Co. display of electrical appliances in Toronto
where are presented the new royal super and the royal standard
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... (1926)
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... (1927)
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... (1932)


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Post# 460401 , Reply# 21   2/17/2023 at 13:06 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Epoxy

lesinutah's profile picture
E-6000 is an amazing epoxy. I knew the experts would chime in.

Post# 460403 , Reply# 22   2/17/2023 at 13:23 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
glue the wheel
will be the easiest thing to do, but find a new data plate, a bag with the royal or standard royal logo stamped on it and an original switch....difficult


Post# 460406 , Reply# 23   2/17/2023 at 13:52 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Yeah I think youíre right that the model tag, bag and switch will be the biggest challenges. If I canít find originals, Iím okay with the machine having a few reproduction parts at the end of the day. Thanks for all of your responses, itís fun learning more about the vacuumís history.

Does anyone know the collector who Sam was restoring the Royal for in his videos? are they a member on the forum?


Post# 460408 , Reply# 24   2/17/2023 at 15:14 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 460410 , Reply# 25   2/17/2023 at 17:10 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Can anyone help to verify the date of the machine and what the nameplate should look like based on the 341543 on the fan housing? Is it in fact a 1925 model? It looks like there are a couple different styles of nameplates that were used on these early models. It would be so helpful if someone could post a quality image of the appropriate data tag for this machine. I think creating a close replica of the nameplate may be possible.

Here are a few of the nameplate designs Iíve been able to find online in photos or videos. The first seems to be the one with the closest number to my machine.



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Post# 460411 , Reply# 26   2/17/2023 at 17:37 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
Ben Well there are 2 types of plates for the royal from 1920 to 1925 (one in brass and one in nickel) both were painted with yellow and blue paint
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
the plates of the models E and F were in brass with orange paint
some plate it is registered made in the usa and some made in canada
depending on where the vacuum cleaner was made !!
I hope I've helped you.Romain


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Post# 460412 , Reply# 27   2/17/2023 at 18:10 by OhioVacuums (Ohio)        
Wheel restoration

I fix broken wheels by gluing the parts you have with JB Weld epoxy and covering
the chips and missing pieces with Sugru.
After the Sugru is dry, I put a bolt through the wheel opening and place it in a
drill press. I spin it and sand it down smooth. This has always worked for me and
the wheel has very close to the original color.
I don't think you'll ever find a bag so I would sew one..then get a good image of
the lettering and print a transfer like you would for a Tee shirt.
I've done that also with great success.
Good Luck !


Post# 460413 , Reply# 28   2/17/2023 at 18:21 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
here is the best resolution I can get on this plate from a royal made in canada
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...


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Post# 460414 , Reply# 29   2/17/2023 at 19:08 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

It seems like this is most likely the badge that came on my vac considering the numbers Iím seeing on these plates vs my serial number. This is a pretty good image to go off of. The only text Iím having trouble making out is the smaller text across the bottom. If anyone has an even clearer image of this tag Iíd really appreciate it if you could post it here. Thanks to everyone for all of the help thus far!

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Post# 460427 , Reply# 30   2/18/2023 at 16:49 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Well Iím working on the graphics to reproduce this badge. Iíve been able to decipher all of the text from the badge except this patent date in the bottom corner. Any ideas? Jeff does your 1926 Royal have this badge design?

My wife has a graphic design background and is helping to reproduce the graphics.

Iím thinking about working with this company to produce the new badge. One of the examples shows 2 color on brass. Will be putting the graphic together to get a quote. Hopefully itís not too pricey!

etched-metal.com/brass-copper-na...


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Post# 460436 , Reply# 31   2/19/2023 at 00:47 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH)        
Ben,

hygiene903's profile picture
I think that's right, but I'll have to go look at it to be sure. I do know it's blue and yellow on brass like that but not sure if the print is exactly the same, and I don't have a close-up of the plate downloaded on my computer or I would post it for you.
Jeff


Post# 460438 , Reply# 32   2/19/2023 at 08:26 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Jeff, I donít want to trouble you but if you have a chance to see if itís the same badge it would be a huge help! If you canít get a good photo, but can verify the text across the bottom of the plate that would provide the last bit of info that I need to reproduce the nameplate.

In an earlier post you discouraged disassembly of the motor. This was sold to me as not working and I was planning to fully disassemble and clean / inspect everything. Is there a reason you caution against a full disassembly? It looks pretty filthy inside. I removed the brushes and one is good, the other is very worn down.

The fan appears to be in good shape for 100 years old! Is the fan nut reverse thread like the newer Royals or is it standard thread due to the opposite rotation of the motor?


Post# 460439 , Reply# 33   2/19/2023 at 09:05 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Here are a few photos of where Iím at with it. It looks like the bearing at the back of the motor housing was replaced at some point.


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Post# 460445 , Reply# 34   2/19/2023 at 13:20 by royalsuper (france )        

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Ben , everything looks normal from the outside, if you plan to use your vacuum cleaner regularly, I advise you to dismantle the motor housing completely in order to check if the electric cables of the rotor and the stator are not bare and take the opportunity to clean the rotor and the copper connector, which is often very dirty.
I link you to a youtube video on the complete restoration of an antique vacuum cleaner.




Post# 460450 , Reply# 35   2/19/2023 at 18:27 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Romain, thatís a very nice restoration and really enjoyed watching their process. I donít plan to use this one much but I think I will still take it apart and clean everything up. Iíd really like to find the date on the armature as well.

Post# 460457 , Reply# 36   2/20/2023 at 02:11 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH)        
Ben,

hygiene903's profile picture
I'll have a look at the plate as soon as I can get to it, but if I take a picture of it, it will be a while before I can post it, as I still use a film camera and I would have to finish the roll, get it developed, and scan the print before I can post it. As for disassembly of the motor, if you're going to be working on it that's OK. I just don't recommend taking it apart just to see the date stamp on the armature. If I remember correctly, the nut on the fan will have a standard thread since the motor rotates in the opposite direction from the later models.
Jeff


Post# 460459 , Reply# 37   2/20/2023 at 07:16 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Jeff, no worries and no rush. if youíre able to verify that itís the same plate and write down the text thatís on the bottom left of the plate, that would work as well. I really appreciate the help from everyone here.

Post# 460515 , Reply# 38   2/21/2023 at 17:01 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I'm working on removal of the fan so that I can disassemble the motor. It appears that the fan is threaded onto the motor shaft in addition to being held on by the nut. I was able to remove the fan nut successfully and it is standard thread. I don't want to damage anything and I am looking for a way to hold the motor shaft while unscrewing the fan off of the shaft. I don't see the access holes in the side of the motor that I've seen on the newer Royals. Is there a trick for holding the motor shaft while removing the fan? I have worked on a few old Emerson fans and there is an access hole to a spot on the shaft where a screwdriver can be used to hold the motor but I'm not seeing anything on this motor. Thanks

Post# 460520 , Reply# 39   2/21/2023 at 19:28 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Iirc

lesinutah's profile picture
There is an opening to the top of the armature. You might have to use something long go through the back of the motor housing like a pencil. This is to stop the armature fan from spinning. The fan is reverse threaded. If the nut comes off and the fan is still threaded on don't strip it going the wrong way.


Post# 460521 , Reply# 40   2/21/2023 at 19:44 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

This one is standard thread due to the reverse rotation of the motor. The nut came off counterclockwise and was fairly easy to remove. Iíll take another look through the back of the housing and see if I can locate the opening. Thanks

Post# 460524 , Reply# 41   2/21/2023 at 19:56 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
The

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Pic I highlighted perhaps where you do it. The nut on the top that looks like a grease port could be access.

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Post# 460527 , Reply# 42   2/22/2023 at 06:00 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I was able to remove the fan. I did not see an opening in the top of the armature but I was able to very carefully use a large flathead screwdriver to hold one of the grooves on the side. One of the holes on the back of the housing allowed just enough clearance to do this. Luckily the fan was not too tight or stuck, just a little stiff.

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Post# 460538 , Reply# 43   2/22/2023 at 16:57 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I opened up the motor today and found the date of this Royal. It is stamped 4-25.

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Post# 460540 , Reply# 44   2/22/2023 at 18:00 by Centralvacs1928 (Chicagoland)        

Wow, that commutator has some serious hours on it!!

Better get out the mini lathe :)


Post# 460544 , Reply# 45   2/22/2023 at 19:19 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

One of the carbon brushes was really worn down to the spring. I think if I clean everything up and replace the worn brushes it might run. Iím going to finish disassembly and begin cleaning all of the parts, Iím really looking forward to seeing the aluminum parts polished up.


Post# 460545 , Reply# 46   2/22/2023 at 20:16 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Where

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Is the fan blades on top of the armature? Good job getting it out.


Post# 460548 , Reply# 47   2/22/2023 at 20:31 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks, I donít think there are supposed to be fan blades on it. Hereís a screenshot from Samís video

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Post# 460550 , Reply# 48   2/22/2023 at 20:36 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Okay

lesinutah's profile picture
It looks like hoover and eurekas armature. I just assumed it did because my kirby vacuettte electric is a 1930 motor in a 1923 machine and ithas fan blades.
Be careful with the commuter I've chipped one before but I wasn't being careful.


Post# 460558 , Reply# 49   2/22/2023 at 22:23 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
congratulations to you Ben, you managed to open it without breaking anything!
your vacuum cleaner is a ROYAL standard it was in 1925 that the company launched the new model K called SUPER ROYAL still in 1925
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...


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Post# 460569 , Reply# 50   2/23/2023 at 06:15 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Romain Iím very relieved! I was able to use a long screwdriver/punch through one of the holes in the back of the motor to gently tap the front plate out, as well as carefully prying through the front oil opening on top of the motor housing after first removing the oil fill tube. I was able to sneak a flathead between the opening in the housing and the oil fill and pry against the back of the plate. I was careful to work it from those two points gradually so that it came out straight and did not bind on the shaft. Also let some penetrating oil soak into the part gap ahead of time. I think my next steps will be finishing up disassembly, cleaning the electrical and getting the aluminum parts polished up. Iím thinking about hiring out the polishing work. Any suggestions? Thanks!



This post was last edited 02/23/2023 at 09:13
Post# 460620 , Reply# 51   2/24/2023 at 08:58 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Who on the forum has outsourced polishing work on an all metal upright like a Royal or Kirby? If so what should one expect to pay to shine up all of the pieces? Thanks

Post# 460622 , Reply# 52   2/24/2023 at 11:33 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
Ben asks a restorer of old cars or motorcycles or maybe a mechanic could help you !





Post# 460628 , Reply# 53   2/24/2023 at 12:48 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I found this shop about 20 minutes from me that gets good reviews. I was just wondering what a reasonable ballpark figure would be to compare to the quote that I get from them.

www.mcnicholsanodizing.com/...


Post# 460638 , Reply# 54   2/24/2023 at 14:33 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
try to send them pictures of your motor housing and normally they have to give you an estimate! this is how it happens in France! the most expensive in the renickeling of small parts

Post# 460639 , Reply# 55   2/24/2023 at 14:34 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Hereís a photo of the motor windings before removal, theyíre filthy but not bad for 98 years old!

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Post# 460641 , Reply# 56   2/24/2023 at 14:41 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
indeed, the motor winding is in excellent condition! how are the two bearings?

Post# 460648 , Reply# 57   2/24/2023 at 16:08 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

The bearings felt really good, there was a bit of fore-aft play but almost no side to side play. Iím wondering if the rear bearing was replaced at some point because there is a groove in the back of the motor housing and it looks like it was cut into the original bearing for removal. The bearing in place does not have the groove carrying through. Unfortunately whoever did the repair got a little too excited with the grinder!

Post# 460661 , Reply# 58   2/25/2023 at 11:33 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I noticed it looks like Sam only removed one of these during his restoration. It looks like one of mine is pushed in slightly more on one side than the other. There are two set screws that I removed that appear to retain them. The wiring is soldered to the inside of them so Iím thinking they are installed from the inside after the wiring is soldered onto them. I might try to remove them but not sure how easily they come out since Sam only removed one. I donít want to risk damaging them or mushrooming them. Has anyone removed these?

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This post was last edited 02/25/2023 at 11:50
Post# 460664 , Reply# 59   2/25/2023 at 12:00 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
That

lesinutah's profile picture
Is the carbon brush housing. Leave the housing in. If you have a soldering iron put the soldering iron where it's soldered on and the wire will come loose.
I'd take degreaer spray it in the housing and all the parts and power spray everything.
Make sure to shoe reassembly pics because my model 98 is exactly like yours and I've not got to the restore yet.


Post# 460665 , Reply# 60   2/25/2023 at 12:01 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Here are a few additional photos

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Post# 460666 , Reply# 61   2/25/2023 at 12:07 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Its

lesinutah's profile picture
The carbon brushes housing. They break easily and removing and reinstalling them.

Post# 460667 , Reply# 62   2/25/2023 at 12:15 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks I will leave them both in and remove the wires as you suggested. Iím taking a lot of photos as I go and will keep posting here for reference.

Post# 460669 , Reply# 63   2/25/2023 at 12:52 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
Ben ,do not try to remove The carbon brushes housing they are coated with a kind of electrical insulator ..even by putting oil and gently tapping on it they will not come out and at worst the insulation (plastic?) will break! it's things are much too old to be out of their housing .

Post# 460671 , Reply# 64   2/25/2023 at 13:21 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks guys, I did not remove them, I heated up the solder and pulled the wires from inside. I am cleaning the housing now.

Post# 460673 , Reply# 65   2/25/2023 at 13:45 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Upon further inspection, Iím thinking maybe the handle switch is original but Iím not sure if itís complete. There was a piece of green material that someone attached at some point to go around the switch. Iím not sure what the reasons for this was. It seems like there was a decorative cover around the switch that went missing.

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Post# 460678 , Reply# 66   2/25/2023 at 14:35 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 460679 , Reply# 67   2/25/2023 at 14:42 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Well disassembly is pretty much complete, next step will be refinishing most of the parts. I think I will leave some original patina on a few select parts but the long portion of the handle is pretty rough and will probably need sandblasting and repainting gloss black. I think I will leave the wood parts as is, just clean them up.

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Post# 460680 , Reply# 68   2/25/2023 at 15:34 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
you can remove the rust from the suction nozzle attachment system and paint in chrome color !many parts of the royal standard were painted black
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...


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Post# 460780 , Reply# 69   2/28/2023 at 09:22 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I was debating removing that piece from the nozzle so that it could be nickel plated with the other parts. I have a rivet tool for installing vintage solid style rivets like these. I would just have to source the same style rivet that was used on the nozzle. Painting it would work as a backup plan, I just donít think it will hold up very well on that part.

Post# 460854 , Reply# 70   3/2/2023 at 06:32 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I've been working on the reproduction badge using adobe illustrator and photoshop. I'll be looking into producing it on brass. I would really appreciate any verification on the month in the bottom left corner. If anyone out there has a vacuum with this badge, it would be a huge help! The photo I referenced was very blurry. I really enjoyed this part of the project and it definitely gave me greater appreciation for the artwork that went into these nameplates.

  View Full Size


This post was last edited 03/02/2023 at 07:18
Post# 460862 , Reply# 71   3/2/2023 at 10:25 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
Ben ,it's very impressive it looks like an original plate ! (dysonman1) Tom Gasko must have the same plate on his royal vacuum cleaner

  View Full Size
Post# 460863 , Reply# 72   3/2/2023 at 10:45 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Romain, I will try to reach out to Tom if he doesnít chime in. I agree I think his machine would have the same plate. I also need to source a set of number stamps so that I can stamp it with the numbers on my fan housing when finished.

Post# 460870 , Reply# 73   3/2/2023 at 15:14 by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

huskyvacs's profile picture
That nameplate mockup you created is fantastic, Ben! If you can find a company that can make that onto real high quality tin you'd be in business!

If you can make a tutorial on how to get a vacuum's model tag into a digital format like that some time, I'm sure many of us would appreciate it. I have no idea where to start.


Post# 460873 , Reply# 74   3/2/2023 at 16:28 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks huskyvacs! There are illustrator tutorials on YouTube, but I started by tracing the location of the holes on the casing and tracing the other badge I had. Then I scanned the tracing in and overlayed the image that I had. I had to do some warping of the image to take the perspective out of it and flatten it out. Then in illustrator I path out all of the graphics for the crown/ banner and Royal type. Hereís a photo of it mocked up on the housing to check the scale. The screws that attach it arenít in the best shape. One of them is okay and the other is quite mangled. I will have to try to clean it up or replace them both. Not sure where to buy such tiny screws!

  View Full Size


This post was last edited 03/02/2023 at 17:51
Post# 460874 , Reply# 75   3/2/2023 at 16:32 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I will tune it up a bit more but I will wait to order it until I can hopefully verify it against a clearer image.



This post was last edited 03/02/2023 at 17:04
Post# 460878 , Reply# 76   3/2/2023 at 18:45 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Make

lesinutah's profile picture
Sure to put a model number on it. CNC shop with the right software could make a model plate.
I will say very nice mock up. You don't want the plate to out look the vacuum.


Post# 460880 , Reply# 77   3/2/2023 at 19:30 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Les, I plan to stamp the numbers into it from my housing. Iím going to look into this company to make the plate

etched-metal.com/brass-copper-na...


Post# 460885 , Reply# 78   3/2/2023 at 21:48 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Nice

lesinutah's profile picture
That's awesome you found a producer. When you get a quote maybe email me how much it cost. That is way cool.


Post# 460891 , Reply# 79   3/3/2023 at 07:55 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Sure Les, Iíll let you know what the cost is. They say there is no minimum quantity. I will be prepping the file to send for a quote today.

Post# 461041 , Reply# 80   3/7/2023 at 16:38 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Well I was able to get a quote from that company and I was shocked by the cost. They say no minimum quantity but they wanted $360 to make one badge or $217 each to make 2 badges! That is well beyond what Iím willing to spend to reproduce this badge so Iím going to try etching the brass myself. The process looks pretty straight forward and I ordered blank solid brass 4x2 plates 1/16Ē thick. Lots of great YouTube videos showing the process!

I was also able to reach Tom Gasko today and he was kind enough to send me a photo of the badge on his early Royal. He said that his is a 1921 model and his badge looks different from the one that Iím replicating. The badge Iím reproducing is definitely a later badge because it has more dates and some later dates reaching to the end of 21. Seeing Tomís badge gave me more confidence that the badge that Iím making is correct for the 1925 models. .

It would still be great to see Jeffís 1926 badge to see if it has any differences. Here is a photo of Tom Gaskoís 1921 Royal badge. I donít think he will mind me sharing it in this thread as we try to differentiate the early Royal badges per year.



  View Full Size
Post# 461045 , Reply# 81   3/7/2023 at 18:38 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Link

lesinutah's profile picture
The link is to my model 98 royal. It's pretty close to the.model you have maybe the first model where they moved the bag to the right.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lesinutah's LINK


Post# 461050 , Reply# 82   3/7/2023 at 19:46 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Les, yeah that is probably too not much newer than mine. It seems like at a certain point they changed to a slimmer badge with more straight lettering. Do you know what year your machine was produced?

Post# 461051 , Reply# 83   3/7/2023 at 20:07 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Iiirc

lesinutah's profile picture
1926-1929.

Post# 461053 , Reply# 84   3/7/2023 at 21:01 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

It seems like they changed to the slimmer, rounded badge on the models where they updated the fan housing and changed bag attachment to the Left side (looking at the front)

Post# 461117 , Reply# 85   3/9/2023 at 19:19 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
tom's ROYAL vacuum cleaner is a model H made from 1920 Ben yours is a model J
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/384386732352...
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/324471086175...


Post# 461118 , Reply# 86   3/9/2023 at 19:48 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I actually bought that owners manual on eBay for the model J!

Does anyone know the owner of the Royal vacuum featured in this video? It sounds like he goes by compact9. I would like to connect with him if possible.






Post# 461121 , Reply# 87   3/9/2023 at 20:41 by repairman (Woodridge, IL)        

The guy speaking at the beginning is Alex (vacuumdevil on Vacuumland). His channel is Performance Reviews. Try contacting him. compactc9 is Reggie.

Post# 461122 , Reply# 88   3/9/2023 at 20:58 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks, Iíve emailed them!

Post# 461138 , Reply# 89   3/10/2023 at 15:49 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Were there any differences between the model H and model J? If so what were the differences? Thanks.

Post# 461139 , Reply# 90   3/10/2023 at 16:18 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
No, just small aesthetic differences in the color of the bag, the ROYAL logo written differently and the handle painted black and some small parts.sorry Ben I don't have high resolution photos

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Post# 461142 , Reply# 91   3/10/2023 at 17:39 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks for that info Romain. Do you know what years the model J was offered? The ones in those photos look like they might be a bit earlier than mine with that bag graphic design vs the Royal Standard bag on the 1925 model year.

Post# 461145 , Reply# 92   3/10/2023 at 18:19 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
the J model dates from the spring of 1925, the ROYAL logo is written in large letters on the bag, in the fall of 1925 the K model appeared with the air outlet on the left the J model became the ROYAL standard and the K model becomes SUPER ROYAL for the end of year celebrations 1925
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/362783970712...


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Post# 461147 , Reply# 93   3/10/2023 at 18:33 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

So since mine was produced in 4-25 it would have had the Royal bag with larger lettering not the Royal standard graphic. This is great info since Iíll be working on the bag soon.

Post# 461148 , Reply# 94   3/10/2023 at 19:03 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
yes, at the beginning of the year 1925 the letters of the ROYAL logo were still attached ,and in the spring of the same year they changed the inscription on the bag and painted the handle in black ,many changes in ROYAL vacuum cleaners from 1925...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373945151508... here is the last advertisement for the model H at the beginning of the year 1925


Post# 461166 , Reply# 95   3/11/2023 at 08:30 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Okay Romain, so now Iím thinking that the badge on my vacuum should indeed be identical to Tomís model H badge. The image of the early 1925 model J appears to have the same badge as his with only two rows of text under the main Royal graphic. I am thinking I will adjust my badge design to match this version.

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Post# 461173 , Reply# 96   3/11/2023 at 11:43 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
it is all the more complicated to know that there have been many vacuum cleaners that have been reconditioned either at the manufacturing plant or later at private dealers...the great depression of 1929 accentuated things !

Post# 461178 , Reply# 97   3/11/2023 at 12:43 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Yes it is really difficult to say for sure which of those two badge designs would have been used as they seem to have been used almost interchangeably on the h and j models. It also looks like one of the 1926 versions of the Royal Standard was not polished. Even in that advertising photo you can see that it was a more dull finish than the others.

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Post# 461179 , Reply# 98   3/11/2023 at 13:04 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

This badge does have a serial number that is really close to mine, where most badges Iíve seen of the other style have lower serial numbers. This badge says 342168. My housing says 341543.

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Post# 461182 , Reply# 99   3/11/2023 at 14:31 by royalsuper (france )        

royalsuper's profile picture
the ROYAL standard of the 1926 exhibition is not polished and has a plate on the front of the nozzle like on super ROYAL !
www.facebook.com/marketpl...

here is a very late super ROYAL it looks like a ROYAL purifier from 1929 it is equipped with the famous disinfection chamber


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Post# 461207 , Reply# 100   3/12/2023 at 09:08 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I just completed a test print of the badge. The ink will be transferred to the brass plate and all white areas will be etched away leaving recessed areas where paint can be applied.

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Post# 461221 , Reply# 101   3/12/2023 at 18:11 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I was able to get a good transfer to the brass plate and itís close to being ready to etch using ferric chloride solution. I plan to do a little cleanup on some of the edges to crispen them up a bit. Anything covered in black ink will remain raised after etching.

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This post was last edited 03/12/2023 at 18:43
Post# 461222 , Reply# 102   3/12/2023 at 18:20 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hmm

lesinutah's profile picture
I think for around $20 you can get a laser etched metal. If you think of army dog tags very similar. I think this could be laser etched and yourself tape off and paint it yourself.
If you put a plastic spray sealer or something similar.


Post# 461224 , Reply# 103   3/12/2023 at 18:40 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Hey Les, yes Iím sure it could be laser etched, but I think this method will yield results that are closer to what the original badge looked like. The ferric chloride etching method will allow me to control the depth of the etch based on length of time left in. Iím also really enjoying this process and like that I can control the quality and thickness of the brass plate being used.

Post# 461229 , Reply# 104   3/12/2023 at 21:01 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Nice

lesinutah's profile picture
If ou spend as much time polishing your vacuum as you do making this model plate it will be show stopper.


Post# 461341 , Reply# 105   3/15/2023 at 17:41 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Iíve made some progress on the badge and really enjoyed the process. I still have some finish work to do but will share some in progress photos. Itís surprising how much fine detail is captured in the etching.these photos are close up and the badge only measures approx 3Ē wide. I still have to stamp the numbers in it from my fan housing, bend it to match the fan housing, cut it out and drill the holes. Iím happy with the result so far. Itís not perfect and has character which is what I was going for since itís going on a 100 year old vacuum.

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This post was last edited 03/15/2023 at 20:33
Post# 461373 , Reply# 106   3/16/2023 at 12:29 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Hereís a few more photos of the badge in some better light. I might do a bit more wet sanding of the face of the lettering. I do like that the pitting gives it a bit of a patina look. Iím picking up my handle from the powder coat shop today and found a replacement wheel thanks to a fellow member.

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Post# 461377 , Reply# 107   3/16/2023 at 14:54 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I picked up the handle on my way home.

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Post# 461380 , Reply# 108   3/16/2023 at 15:11 by Hoover300 (Kentucky)        

hoover300's profile picture
Wow! Looking great so far!

Post# 461382 , Reply# 109   3/16/2023 at 15:53 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Iím having a lot of fun with the project. Itís been great to be able to learn so much about the history from members on this forum!

Post# 461385 , Reply# 110   3/16/2023 at 17:22 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Here we are after one more round of wet sanding. I think Iím ready to move on to stamping the serial number now.

  View Full Size

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