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Thread Number: 44215
/ Tag: Pre-1950 Vacuum Cleaners
Vintage Royal Vacuum project |
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| Post# 460332 , Reply# 1 2/15/2023 at 18:07 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
You
Bought the royal I was watching. Iirc it's a model 189. The wheels on the front should both be replaced so they match. The handle to me from the fork up looks wrong. The bag might be original but it's hard to tell. I'm guessing your vacuum is late 40s early 50s. It could be older. The model is older than my 235. You should ask around royal parts may be available. There is a thread by onery, benand Jeff have a royal model timeline and history.
I'd recommend taking the nozzle off the fan bearing plate armature and carbon brushes. Get a pressure washer but spray a degreaser cleaner soak it in and power spray it. Let it dry completely. I did this on my 235 and it saved alot of time. The height adjustment knob doesn't look right. Don't take my post as gospel its an educated guess from a person who owns 10-15 royals. Good luck more pics. | ||
| Post# 460341 , Reply# 3 2/15/2023 at 18:46 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Duh
The vacuum is older than I mentioned. I know the early royals have the bag on the left. I don't know the model plate is correct. I'm attaching a thread about my model 98. I believe my model 98 is mid 1930's. If you look my vacuum is old and the bag is on the opposite side of where yours is. Then look at my handle it has the model patents on the plate.
Your is likely older than mine and the handle is wrong but the height adjustment is original. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lesinutah's LINK | ||
| Post# 460342 , Reply# 4 2/15/2023 at 19:02 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Thread
www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bi...
That's the royal thread. You have to download the link ornery has on the first post | ||
| Post# 460350 , Reply# 6 2/16/2023 at 03:22 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH) | ||
Hi Ben,
Your early Royal was built in 1928 or before, as that was the year they moved the bag outlet to the other side of the fan case and changed the rotation of the motor. The month and year of manufacture is stamped on the armature, but I wouldn't recommend tearing the motor apart just to verify the age. However, if you need to tear it down for repairs, then it would be OK. Since the housing is all cast aluminum, it will look absolutely beautiful once you get it cleaned up and polished! Your bag is not original, although it does appear to be a genuine Royal bag from the late 40's or early 50's that someone altered to make it fit. Your cord and switch and plate are replacements too.
Here's a couple pics of my early Straight Suction Royal from 1926 and my 215 from the late 40's-early 50's. I'm also missing a wheel from my early Royal, and I think the armature needs turned, as it sounds good but sparks badly. This pic was taken before I started working on it. The 215 is pictured to show you where your bag may have come from. Good luck with your restoration, Jeff | ||
| Post# 460353 , Reply# 8 2/16/2023 at 08:50 by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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| Post# 460359 , Reply# 9 2/16/2023 at 13:48 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
Ben ,Well the model plate is not correct ! remove it and you should find a serial number engraved on the motor housing which differs numbers from that on your plate! the switch has been replaced ! the black paint on the handle indicates that your vacuum cleaner is a royal standard marketed from 1925 ! the bag is obviously an original factory replacement bag . you are also missing the clamp to attach the bag to the air outlet nozzle . I am attaching some photos to help you.
Romain | ||
| Post# 460360 , Reply# 10 2/16/2023 at 14:08 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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a model G put on the market in 1919 with its switch like Jeff Schroff's ROYAL, the royal logo is still embossed on the bag you can also notice that the 2 small metal grease nipples on the engine are slightly higher than on the model H from 1920
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| Post# 460366 , Reply# 12 2/16/2023 at 17:05 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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here is a photo of a royal standard property of tom gasko it seems to me zupimages.net/up/23/07/rtpk.jpg... (direct links to the high resolution photo)
I hope this will help you . Romain
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Post# 460367 , Reply# 13 2/16/2023 at 17:36 by MIVintageVacs  (Royal Oak MI) |
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Wow that’s fantastic! Much appreciated! | ||
| Post# 460370 , Reply# 14 2/16/2023 at 18:45 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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| Post# 460373 , Reply# 15 2/16/2023 at 19:07 by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
How funny, I got a Health-Mor vacuum and the same wheel broke in the same way in shipping.
You will have to glue the wheel, as there is no way to get a replacement unless you can find someone that can 3D-print replica wheels. Good news is that both yours and mine broke above the wheel hub, so it is not structurally compromised and glue will hold it. If anyone knows a glue that would be safe to use, please tell. I am not sure what material it is made from. It looks like some kind of graphite composite or something. I'm not sure if modern glues would eat away at it. Also for the bag connection. the good news is Royal never changed their bag connection type. I fit a plain gray bag for a Royal 801 on my Health-Mor and it is a perfect fit. It matches really nicely too. I hope to someday find the original bag but as a place-holder the replacement bag works well.
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| Post# 460375 , Reply# 16 2/16/2023 at 19:55 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Funny | ||
| Post# 460385 , Reply# 17 2/17/2023 at 04:37 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH) | ||
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Hi Ben,
Thank you for the compliment, and here are a couple pics that I hope will be of help. The first is a close-up of the handle. You will notice mine has an unusual push-button switch that goes through the handle. The second is a close-up of the fan case and nozzle. That's about as good as I can do for now for a pic of the data plate. Mine doesn't have a model number, just a serial number of 483480. I agree with Romain, looks like your nameplate is from a later model. Like the other pic I posted of this Royal, these were taken before I did any work on it.
Huskyvacs, if you look at the picture of the fan case and nozzle, you will see that Royal did indeed change their bag connection type, at the same time they moved the bag outlet from one side to the other. The older style was oblong instead of round, and you pulled up on the ring on top to remove it. Jeff | ||
| Post# 460392 , Reply# 19 2/17/2023 at 10:16 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Thanks Jeff for adding pictures! your push-button switch is the switch of a 1919 model G zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
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| Post# 460393 , Reply# 20 2/17/2023 at 10:39 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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here are 3 pictures of B.C. Electric Co. display of electrical appliances in Toronto
where are presented the new royal super and the royal standard zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... (1926) zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... (1927) zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... (1932) | ||
| Post# 460401 , Reply# 21 2/17/2023 at 13:06 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Epoxy | ||
| Post# 460403 , Reply# 22 2/17/2023 at 13:23 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Post# 460408 , Reply# 24 2/17/2023 at 15:14 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
| Post# 460411 , Reply# 26 2/17/2023 at 17:37 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Ben Well there are 2 types of plates for the royal from 1920 to 1925 (one in brass and one in nickel) both were painted with yellow and blue paint
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... the plates of the models E and F were in brass with orange paint some plate it is registered made in the usa and some made in canada depending on where the vacuum cleaner was made !! I hope I've helped you.Romain | ||
| Post# 460413 , Reply# 28 2/17/2023 at 18:21 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
here is the best resolution I can get on this plate from a royal made in canada zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION...
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| Post# 460436 , Reply# 31 2/19/2023 at 00:47 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH) | ||
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Ben, | ||
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Post# 460439 , Reply# 33 2/19/2023 at 09:05 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Here are a few photos of where I’m at with it. It looks like the bearing at the back of the motor housing was replaced at some point. | ||
| Post# 460445 , Reply# 34 2/19/2023 at 13:20 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Ben , everything looks normal from the outside, if you plan to use your vacuum cleaner regularly, I advise you to dismantle the motor housing completely in order to check if the electric cables of the rotor and the stator are not bare and take the opportunity to clean the rotor and the copper connector, which is often very dirty.
I link you to a youtube video on the complete restoration of an antique vacuum cleaner. | ||
| Post# 460457 , Reply# 36 2/20/2023 at 02:11 by hygiene903 (Galion, OH) | ||
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Ben,
I'll have a look at the plate as soon as I can get to it, but if I take a picture of it, it will be a while before I can post it, as I still use a film camera and I would have to finish the roll, get it developed, and scan the print before I can post it. As for disassembly of the motor, if you're going to be working on it that's OK. I just don't recommend taking it apart just to see the date stamp on the armature. If I remember correctly, the nut on the fan will have a standard thread since the motor rotates in the opposite direction from the later models.
Jeff | ||
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Post# 460459 , Reply# 37 2/20/2023 at 07:16 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks Jeff, no worries and no rush. if you’re able to verify that it’s the same plate and write down the text that’s on the bottom left of the plate, that would work as well. I really appreciate the help from everyone here. | ||
| Post# 460520 , Reply# 39 2/21/2023 at 19:28 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Iirc
There is an opening to the top of the armature. You might have to use something long go through the back of the motor housing like a pencil. This is to stop the armature fan from spinning. The fan is reverse threaded. If the nut comes off and the fan is still threaded on don't strip it going the wrong way.
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Post# 460521 , Reply# 40 2/21/2023 at 19:44 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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This one is standard thread due to the reverse rotation of the motor. The nut came off counterclockwise and was fairly easy to remove. I’ll take another look through the back of the housing and see if I can locate the opening. Thanks | ||
| Post# 460524 , Reply# 41 2/21/2023 at 19:56 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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The
Pic I highlighted perhaps where you do it. The nut on the top that looks like a grease port could be access.
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Post# 460538 , Reply# 43 2/22/2023 at 16:57 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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I opened up the motor today and found the date of this Royal. It is stamped 4-25.
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Post# 460540 , Reply# 44 2/22/2023 at 18:00 by Centralvacs1928 (Chicagoland) |
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Wow, that commutator has some serious hours on it!! Better get out the mini lathe :) | ||
| Post# 460545 , Reply# 46 2/22/2023 at 20:16 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Where | ||
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Post# 460548 , Reply# 47 2/22/2023 at 20:31 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks, I don’t think there are supposed to be fan blades on it. Here’s a screenshot from Sam’s video
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| Post# 460550 , Reply# 48 2/22/2023 at 20:36 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Okay | ||
| Post# 460558 , Reply# 49 2/22/2023 at 22:23 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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congratulations to you Ben, you managed to open it without breaking anything!
your vacuum cleaner is a ROYAL standard it was in 1925 that the company launched the new model K called SUPER ROYAL still in 1925 zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... | ||
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Post# 460620 , Reply# 51 2/24/2023 at 08:58 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Who on the forum has outsourced polishing work on an all metal upright like a Royal or Kirby? If so what should one expect to pay to shine up all of the pieces? Thanks | ||
| Post# 460622 , Reply# 52 2/24/2023 at 11:33 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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| Post# 460638 , Reply# 54 2/24/2023 at 14:33 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Post# 460639 , Reply# 55 2/24/2023 at 14:34 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Here’s a photo of the motor windings before removal, they’re filthy but not bad for 98 years old!
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| Post# 460641 , Reply# 56 2/24/2023 at 14:41 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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| Post# 460664 , Reply# 59 2/25/2023 at 12:00 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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That
Is the carbon brush housing. Leave the housing in. If you have a soldering iron put the soldering iron where it's soldered on and the wire will come loose.
I'd take degreaer spray it in the housing and all the parts and power spray everything. Make sure to shoe reassembly pics because my model 98 is exactly like yours and I've not got to the restore yet. | ||
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Post# 460665 , Reply# 60 2/25/2023 at 12:01 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Here are a few additional photos | ||
| Post# 460666 , Reply# 61 2/25/2023 at 12:07 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Its | ||
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Post# 460667 , Reply# 62 2/25/2023 at 12:15 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks I will leave them both in and remove the wires as you suggested. I’m taking a lot of photos as I go and will keep posting here for reference. | ||
| Post# 460669 , Reply# 63 2/25/2023 at 12:52 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Post# 460671 , Reply# 64 2/25/2023 at 13:21 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks guys, I did not remove them, I heated up the solder and pulled the wires from inside. I am cleaning the housing now. | ||
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Post# 460678 , Reply# 66 2/25/2023 at 14:35 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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| Post# 460680 , Reply# 68 2/25/2023 at 15:34 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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you can remove the rust from the suction nozzle attachment system and paint in chrome color !many parts of the royal standard were painted black
zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... zupimages.net/viewer.phpQUESTION... | ||
| Post# 460862 , Reply# 71 3/2/2023 at 10:25 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Ben ,it's very impressive it looks like an original plate ! (dysonman1) Tom Gasko must have the same plate on his royal vacuum cleaner
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| Post# 460870 , Reply# 73 3/2/2023 at 15:14 by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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That nameplate mockup you created is fantastic, Ben! If you can find a company that can make that onto real high quality tin you'd be in business!
If you can make a tutorial on how to get a vacuum's model tag into a digital format like that some time, I'm sure many of us would appreciate it. I have no idea where to start. | ||
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Post# 460874 , Reply# 75 3/2/2023 at 16:32 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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I will tune it up a bit more but I will wait to order it until I can hopefully verify it against a clearer image. This post was last edited 03/02/2023 at 17:04 | ||
| Post# 460878 , Reply# 76 3/2/2023 at 18:45 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Make | ||
| Post# 460885 , Reply# 78 3/2/2023 at 21:48 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Nice | ||
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Post# 460891 , Reply# 79 3/3/2023 at 07:55 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Sure Les, I’ll let you know what the cost is. They say there is no minimum quantity. I will be prepping the file to send for a quote today. | ||
| Post# 461045 , Reply# 81 3/7/2023 at 18:38 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Link
The link is to my model 98 royal. It's pretty close to the.model you have maybe the first model where they moved the bag to the right.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lesinutah's LINK | ||
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Post# 461050 , Reply# 82 3/7/2023 at 19:46 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks Les, yeah that is probably too not much newer than mine. It seems like at a certain point they changed to a slimmer badge with more straight lettering. Do you know what year your machine was produced? | ||
| Post# 461051 , Reply# 83 3/7/2023 at 20:07 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Iiirc | ||
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Post# 461053 , Reply# 84 3/7/2023 at 21:01 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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It seems like they changed to the slimmer, rounded badge on the models where they updated the fan housing and changed bag attachment to the Left side (looking at the front) | ||
| Post# 461117 , Reply# 85 3/9/2023 at 19:19 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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tom's ROYAL vacuum cleaner is a model H made from 1920 Ben yours is a model J
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/384386732352... https://www.ebay.fr/itm/324471086175... | ||
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Post# 461118 , Reply# 86 3/9/2023 at 19:48 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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I actually bought that owners manual on eBay for the model J! Does anyone know the owner of the Royal vacuum featured in this video? It sounds like he goes by compact9. I would like to connect with him if possible. | ||
| Post# 461121 , Reply# 87 3/9/2023 at 20:41 by repairman (Woodridge, IL) | ||
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The guy speaking at the beginning is Alex (vacuumdevil on Vacuumland). His channel is Performance Reviews. Try contacting him. compactc9 is Reggie. | ||
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Post# 461122 , Reply# 88 3/9/2023 at 20:58 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks, I’ve emailed them! | ||
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Post# 461138 , Reply# 89 3/10/2023 at 15:49 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Were there any differences between the model H and model J? If so what were the differences? Thanks. | ||
| Post# 461139 , Reply# 90 3/10/2023 at 16:18 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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No, just small aesthetic differences in the color of the bag, the ROYAL logo written differently and the handle painted black and some small parts.sorry Ben I don't have high resolution photos
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Post# 461142 , Reply# 91 3/10/2023 at 17:39 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks for that info Romain. Do you know what years the model J was offered? The ones in those photos look like they might be a bit earlier than mine with that bag graphic design vs the Royal Standard bag on the 1925 model year. | ||
| Post# 461145 , Reply# 92 3/10/2023 at 18:19 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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the J model dates from the spring of 1925, the ROYAL logo is written in large letters on the bag, in the fall of 1925 the K model appeared with the air outlet on the left the J model became the ROYAL standard and the K model becomes SUPER ROYAL for the end of year celebrations 1925
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/362783970712... | ||
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Post# 461147 , Reply# 93 3/10/2023 at 18:33 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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So since mine was produced in 4-25 it would have had the Royal bag with larger lettering not the Royal standard graphic. This is great info since I’ll be working on the bag soon. | ||
| Post# 461148 , Reply# 94 3/10/2023 at 19:03 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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yes, at the beginning of the year 1925 the letters of the ROYAL logo were still attached ,and in the spring of the same year they changed the inscription on the bag and painted the handle in black ,many changes in ROYAL vacuum cleaners from 1925...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373945151508... | ||
| Post# 461173 , Reply# 96 3/11/2023 at 11:43 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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Post# 461179 , Reply# 98 3/11/2023 at 13:04 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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This badge does have a serial number that is really close to mine, where most badges I’ve seen of the other style have lower serial numbers. This badge says 342168. My housing says 341543.
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| Post# 461182 , Reply# 99 3/11/2023 at 14:31 by royalsuper (france ) | ||
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the ROYAL standard of the 1926 exhibition is not polished and has a plate on the front of the nozzle like on super ROYAL !
www.facebook.com/marketpl... here is a very late super ROYAL it looks like a ROYAL purifier from 1929 it is equipped with the famous disinfection chamber
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Post# 461207 , Reply# 100 3/12/2023 at 09:08 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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I just completed a test print of the badge. The ink will be transferred to the brass plate and all white areas will be etched away leaving recessed areas where paint can be applied.
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| Post# 461222 , Reply# 102 3/12/2023 at 18:20 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Hmm | ||
| Post# 461229 , Reply# 104 3/12/2023 at 21:01 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Nice | ||
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Post# 461377 , Reply# 107 3/16/2023 at 14:54 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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I picked up the handle on my way home. | ||
| Post# 461380 , Reply# 108 3/16/2023 at 15:11 by Hoover300 (Kentucky) | ||
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Post# 461382 , Reply# 109 3/16/2023 at 15:53 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI) |
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Thanks I’m having a lot of fun with the project. It’s been great to be able to learn so much about the history from members on this forum! | ||
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