Thread Number: 44457  /  Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Windsor Sensor XP12 auto height not working
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Post# 462543   4/24/2023 at 08:03 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        

I just acquired a Sensor XP12 in immaculate condition. Iím just curious if the auto height adjust mechanism in these Windsors and Sebos are known to be reliable or problematic? Iím currently trying to figure out why it wonít adjust and neither lights for the up or down arrows are working. I was just curious which I should consider first- circuit board or loose wire?

Thanks in advance!




This post was last edited 04/24/2023 at 10:57
Post# 462546 , Reply# 1   4/24/2023 at 09:05 by fantomfan57 (Central Texas)        
Have you.....

Checked with Youtube/Google yet? How about the Mfg.?

Post# 462547 , Reply# 2   4/24/2023 at 09:06 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Yes and yes

Yes

Post# 462548 , Reply# 3   4/24/2023 at 09:41 by Seboman20 (California )        

seboman20's profile picture
Check to roller first. If it worn down it will cause problems to the automatic adjustments. Make sure itís a genuine roller too.

Post# 462551 , Reply# 4   4/24/2023 at 10:44 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
The brush roll is fineÖ

Anyway, the brush roll wonít keep the up and down arrow lights from working. Right now the machine is on its lowest setting and when lock the handle it should begin to raise up from the floor. Thatís not happening. Likewise, when I lower the handle it does nothing either.

Post# 462556 , Reply# 5   4/24/2023 at 13:30 by Mixman (Central NJ)        

Could it be that the auto adjust was disabled? As I understand there is a trick to keep the auto adjust models on the lowest settings by disabling the auto feature. How this is done I am not sure. Presumably by going under the hood and pulling the wire from the auto adjustment.

Post# 462566 , Reply# 6   4/24/2023 at 14:25 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
I thought the same thingÖÖ

I looked under the hood and everything is connected. The other lights for the bag and the brush are working, but I curious if the control board might be partially operational.

Post# 462571 , Reply# 7   4/24/2023 at 14:38 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
By the wayÖÖ

Disabling the auto adjustment is a horrible idea. All it does is prematurely shorten the life of the brush roll. The mechanism is designed to compensate for brush wear by lowering the nozzle incrementally as the bristles start to wear shorter. Itís probably not the deepest cleaning upright out there, but I mostly see them in low pile, commercially carpeted settings.

Post# 462578 , Reply# 8   4/24/2023 at 15:01 by Mixman (Central NJ)        

I havenít done that before. I have an X7 and when I want it to dig in a bit more I just throw on the boost.

I would imagine if someone needs a bit more grooming or the X4/XP12 to dig in a bit more, disabling might not be the worst thing if it just leads to the premature wearing of the brushroll. They are real actively cheap and easy to replace. This would be the case if someone is just unhappy with how it digs into their carpet.


Post# 462596 , Reply# 9   4/24/2023 at 17:50 by Rolls_rapide (-)        

Probably the most likely scenario:

Apparently there is a small magnet, somewhere (I presume) in the region of the suction duct handle hinge assembly... which is known to fall off, in the chassis area. A spot of glue should keep it in place. I think the machine must be thinking that it is still in parked mode - hence the lack of height lights.



The other possibilities are burnt out height motor (though I would have thought the height lamps would have continued to illuminate). Or the PCB is somehow corrupted - apparently corruption can happen with the 'bag full indicator' side of things, where the machine cuts out after a few seconds, even with new bag, clean filters, and no blockage.

With my X7, the height seems to be regulated by a mixture of brushroll resistance, and suction airflow restriction.


Post# 462599 , Reply# 10   4/24/2023 at 18:40 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Thank you Rolls_rapide!

Iíll need to look again for that loosened magnet and double check the other functions of the board. The other lights flicker once when I turn it on but I havenít tested the brush or put my hand over the hose. Iím waiting until last to consider that it might be the PCB or the Computer Control board. Iíll be sure to report my findings.

Post# 462612 , Reply# 11   4/25/2023 at 03:16 by repairman (Woodridge, IL)        

There's 3 magnets in an Automatic Sebo/Windsor.

One sits in the suction elbow to raise the machine to its highest setting when the unit is standing/using tools.

The other two are located in the orange clutch pulley. The edges of each magnet meet up across from each other and the sensor from the circuit board sits in between them.

As for a loose wire, there's two ribbon cables that go into the front circuit board. One connects to the power supply board and the other comes from the height adjuster motor.

Also make sure you're using a Genuine Sebo brushroll which is plastic. The bristles should protrude about an 1/8 inch past the wire guards.

If all magnets are present and it still doesn't work, then you'll probably have to throw a set of boards at it. The set cost around $100. They must be replaced as a set since they work together and they've been revised many times over the years.


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Post# 462615 , Reply# 12   4/25/2023 at 07:56 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Thanks repairman!

All of my magnets are intact and thereís no loose wiring, so Iím going back to my foredrawn conclusion that I really didnít want to face - itís probably the boards. Do you have any particular vendor to suggest for purchasing these? $100 is lower than some of the other pricing Iíve seen. I believe the latest version also gives the machine a soft startup as well. I still think itís worth it considering that it will be used in a low maintenance, light dirt, commercial setting and it will probably last for quite a while. Iím trying to refurbish it for a charityís office building and it will replace a Hoover Wintunnel Bagless Rewind that has been spewing dust for the past few months because no one knows or cares about cleaning the foam filter.

Post# 462626 , Reply# 13   4/25/2023 at 10:54 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Repairman, one more questionÖÖ

I just noticed on the pulley that the 2 magnets donít meet up exactly across from each other. Is there any sort of fine tuning involved with this pulley that I might be able to adjust?

Post# 462630 , Reply# 14   4/25/2023 at 12:52 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Update :

I just had a technician tell me that the up & down lights will indeed not function if the servo motor is not working, so this will be my first replacement item. I hope this is it because it will certainly be cheaper than a PCB!

Post# 462817 , Reply# 15   5/3/2023 at 06:23 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Rolls_rapide you were almost rightÖ..

It was the servo motor for the height adjustment but it wasnít burned out. It needed to be calibrated and a gentleman on the Manchester Vacs forum had a YouTube video and detailed info about this. As it turns out the servo is serviceable but I donít recommend it. When you open it up youíll be showered by about 8 tiny gears that need to be arranged in a specific order. After I put them back in place, all I had to do was arrange the wheel spindle back to a specific position to sync 4 contact points together. It took some trial and error but I eventually got it right because when I turned the machine on, it raised the brush from the floor and lowered it when I put the handle down.

Many thanks to Beko1987 of Manchester Vacs, who also happens to a Vacuumland member!



CLICK HERE TO GO TO luxlife's LINK




This post was last edited 05/03/2023 at 07:59
Post# 462819 , Reply# 16   5/3/2023 at 08:18 by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
Great news! Sam is a good guy

Post# 462823 , Reply# 17   5/3/2023 at 09:17 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Yes he is!

It takes a bit fortitude (and time) to sit with this component and piece the gears back to before sealing it back up. His work on this is a gift to anyone who appreciates this machine. I actually spoke to a technician at Windsor (Karcher) about this first and he stated that it ďwasnít normal procedureĒ to try and service the servo motor, just to replace it. Thatís when I knew that Iíd just have to get my hands dirty. I miss being hands-on with machine repairs.

Post# 462876 , Reply# 18   5/4/2023 at 15:23 by Rolls_rapide (-)        

I remember seeing a video of a servo-motor stripped down. A multitude of gears. I presume they're plastic gears?

I also suppose plastic being plastic, it wears down, possibly causing the gears to slip and skip. You might find you encounter the same problem again, sooner rather than later. That's probably the reasoning behind the Windsor technician's 'replace rather than repair'. The individual gears probably won't be available to service the motor assembly either.


Post# 462880 , Reply# 19   5/4/2023 at 19:03 by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Sounds reasonable enough

Iím sure the gears would be stripped from misuse or the operator trying to force the vacuum nozzle to go lower onto the carpet. Iím very fortunate with this machine in that gears are fully intact. If it happens again, it will most likely be the computer control board.



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