Thread Number: 44103  /  Tag: Major Appliances
Nationwide gas stove ban?
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Post# 459276   1/9/2023 at 16:42 (551 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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I saw this earlier today. So far it's just a report or a rumor but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually does happen very soon.

nypost.com/2023/01/09/biden-admi...


Post# 459286 , Reply# 1   1/10/2023 at 01:56 (551 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

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If this happens people will riot the capitol again guaranteed. A lot more BS. The same as them trying to ban dairy farming due to cow gas.

"The studies also linked gas stoves to respiratory illness, cardiovascular problems, cancer​ and other health conditions.​"

But god forbid you ban drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol right?


They are grasping at straws trying to control the population because the "cars cause pollution" gimmick did not work.


Post# 459287 , Reply# 2   1/10/2023 at 02:55 (551 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

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Found a report that debunks this "law"

www.energyindepth.org/rep...

"according to the report’s findings, residents would be forced to give up their access to affordable cooking fuel, because of a scientific shortcut that assumes residential cooking “using both stove and oven, without venting, would take place in a residence for 2-hours every single day for 365 days per year,"


Post# 459295 , Reply# 3   1/10/2023 at 09:01 (551 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa)        

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I heard this as well. So ridiculous. I've heard most chefs prefer gas anyway.

Post# 459296 , Reply# 4   1/10/2023 at 09:10 (551 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa)        

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And electric does not pollute? What the!!! I can't see this happening my whole house is gas, water heater, furnace, dryer, stove and oven. We have plenty of gas in OK. Will the Biden Administration replace my gas appliances? A gas oven and gas log inserts are very nice to have during a power outage.

Our current Admin is so far removed from reality, it's not funny! I'm sorry but that is the way I feel.


Post# 459297 , Reply# 5   1/10/2023 at 10:33 (551 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

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I cook every day on my five-burner industrial GAS stove. You couldn't give me an electric stove. The worst are those flat top ones. My husband's parents have one and I HATE cooking at their home. My cast iron pans are too heavy for the glass top and I cook way too much like a chef, shaking the pan and tipping it when spooning butter over a sizzling steak. They will never really ban gas appliances in the US.

Post# 459299 , Reply# 6   1/10/2023 at 11:14 (551 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
Kenny,

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I, too, have gas 'everything'.  The fireplace is wonderful AND will work in a power outage.

 

I prefer cooking with gas any day over electric.

 


Post# 459300 , Reply# 7   1/10/2023 at 12:25 (551 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

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I have a gas furnace, gas logs, and a gas grill, all connected to natural gas and not propane; however I do have an electric, glass top stove and an electric dryer. As a college professor who teaches critical thinking, the idea of banning gas stoves, and the furor it appears to be creating seems to be based on the logical fallacy of predicting the most dire outcome as the only (il)logical conclusion when other more reasonable possibilities also exist. Realistically, the most likely scenario would be to implement improved ventilation standards for new installations. I have little doubt that existing stoves would be grandfathered in.

After all, when the government began mandating emission controls (unleaded gas, catalytic converters, etc.) for cars in the mid '70s, they didn't ban earlier model cars that were not thus equipped, nor did they even require them to be retrofitted; in fact, the law accommodated those vehicles by allowing the availability of leaded gasoline to continue for another 15 years or so, until the majority of those cars were no longer on the road.


Post# 459301 , Reply# 8   1/10/2023 at 12:28 (551 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

I have a whole-gas house also and love it. At least until the cost of gas surpassed electricity last year... Regardless, it was nice to have a heat source when the power failed. I could at least keep warm and have hot meals and hot water.

"Nothing warms you like gas" is a true slogan from one of the big gas associations - very efficient and clean burning. Easy to cook and heat with it, too.

One thing that should be banned are those stupid range hoods that just semi-filter and recirculate the air inside. Vent it outside - the right way!
Most, if not all of the pollutants are from what is cooked and how, not the fuel. Those who often burn stuff should learn to do better.

My mom has been cooking with gas her whole life. Her 60 year house she bought new still has the original oven and cooktop and both still fire cleanly. The popcorn ceiling is still white and nothing stinks. She knows how to cook well and does it a lot. She rarely eats out.
I had put a CO detector in her kitchen 8 years ago and it never registered anything, even when doing the Thanksgiving dinners. I had to put the thing IN the oven a short time to see if it actually worked. When it expired, it was never replaced.

This scare is just another dumb desire by someone who is not a scientist, who wants to make a long-lasting stain on the country. I doubt this stove ban will ever happen. Even if it did, it would be done like light bulbs - no more gas units are made or installed, you keep using what you have. (I still use my watt-suckin' incandescents!)

Anyone remember the push of the 'Gold Medallion' homes in the 50s-70's?
They were all electric homes, to help rid the pollution of coal and wood and oil. It was one of the biggest gooberment campaigns ever but it had substance back then since those fuels were dirty. It also helped get big power generation stations built and online.
This sounds like a similar push, but it seems like natural gas also produces most electricity now, which is CLEAN. It makes no good sense now (unless to pad pockets of electric companies).

There are some big new homes going up near me that use gas only for the tankless water heaters and heatalator fireplaces. The kitchens are all electric. Heatpumps with electric backup are used. The range hoods ARE vented outside - one good improvement.
Of course, since all those appliances are electrically controlled, they will not work in a power outage.
There is a lot of cost cutting in houses, too - I would not want a new one unless I spec'ed it completely.

Progress is being made backwards, as usual. We really need some better people in office. Like Now...

So go ahead and keep using your gas cooking appliances, and enjoy them. Just don't burn anything, lol...


Post# 459302 , Reply# 9   1/10/2023 at 12:55 (551 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

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I totally agree about the range hoods. Building codes should require them to be vented to the outside. My house has one of those that blows back in your face. I never turn the thing on, since it does absolutely nothing but make noise. The really irksome part is that it originally had a vented one and a previous owner got rid of it when they remodeled sometime in the '80s. Looking at the roof, it appears the vent duct is still present and intact, and I can see where the hole in the kitchen ceiling was patched over when they redid the cabinets. I've been in that house almost nine years, but one of these days, I'm going to get someone to come in and reconnect the vent. It would most likely be worth the expense and the loss of a certain amount of cabinet space.

Post# 459303 , Reply# 10   1/10/2023 at 13:33 (551 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

I had every plan to hook mine up to the outside decades ago, as the hood would allow it (despite its low airflow). The pipes and the roof cap are in the attic.
However I never got into cooking so I never found it worth the time and effort to do it.
My next house WILL have it done properly though, and a quality hood as well.. I do plan to start cooking when I retire and have the time...


Post# 459304 , Reply# 11   1/10/2023 at 13:37 (551 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
my rangehood vent goes outside

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During one of my large dinner parties, where I made 20 chicken parms, a  guest came in from outside. "What kind of vent do you have? It smells great outside". lol


Post# 459309 , Reply# 12   1/10/2023 at 14:14 (550 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        
What kind of vent do you have? It smells great outside

And there is the only reason I dislike outdoor vents.. I seem to only smell good stuff cooking when I am starved and away from home at the time...

Post# 459311 , Reply# 13   1/10/2023 at 17:19 (550 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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Right back at ya John that they will indeed still work whenever there's a power outage. That's why my grandmother wanted a gas stove in the first place because the small little town they were living at in Utah, the power goes out a ton especially during the winter. Unfortunately for my other grandparents, theirs's has always been electric. At least from when I had been around since they might've had a gas stove at one point. So they have an electric stove at not only their house but also at their log cabin as well. During Thanksgiving, we tried to clean their stove out at the cabin. I don't think it had ever been deep cleaned before when it was put in back in 2004. But boy we tried scrubbing all we could out of that stove with baking soda and most just wouldn't come off.

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Post# 459329 , Reply# 14   1/11/2023 at 11:30 (550 days old) by Vinvac (Dubuque IA)        

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This is just more propaganda to make this administration look bad.

There are no way gas cooking appliances will be a thing of the past. However, often times during power outages and storms many folks either die or become ill from the carbon dioxide produced from using the gas stove as a heat source without proper ventilation.

I think since being on this forum this subject has come up many times. It also comes up on Automatic Washer.

There are so many false reports and lies out there it is unbelievable. Electric is always a cleaner source of energy and now with wind power and solar it truly is cleaner.

Personally, right now I don't have a gas stove but do have a gas dryer, two furnaces and a water heater that is gas. when I first moved to Dubuque, I was sad to see that there was not a gas hookup for a stove. We have been cooking on a smooth top electric for the past 18 years and I love it.

The world needs to wake up and become more energy efficient getting away from fossil fuels that are destroying our planet. Wind energy, solar and water can help cut down on the use of fossil fuels immensely. I am waiting for the day when wind turbines can be purchased more affordably so I can run our home on the energy produced by the wind.





Post# 459333 , Reply# 15   1/11/2023 at 13:06 (550 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
We always had a gas stove here

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after the 'coal stove'.

My aunt has a smooth glass cook top. To clean it, I bought "Barkeeper's Friend" cooktop cleaner in a BOTTLE. It's a gray bottle. One squirt and it cleans the top perfectly.  A little elbow grease on a spot, but...................

 You might care to try it.

  Works for me.


Post# 459357 , Reply# 16   1/11/2023 at 21:55 (549 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles)        
"Our current Admin is so far removed from reality..."

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Well, the MAGA s#!t-stirring failed on this one...


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Post# 459360 , Reply# 17   1/12/2023 at 06:06 (549 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

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This actually came from the university of Berkeley in California, which was then dug up by the USCPSC and had nothing to do with the president, until some lawmakers started pushing it along with the USCPSC gaslighting (haha pun) the white house.

I think it stems from the recent bill that Biden passed, buried in it somewhere is laws for regulating industrial energy consumption and i think something with gas stoves and restraunts were mentioned in the gist of fossil fuels and air pollution.

I think all it means is gas stoves will be built to regulations (read: make them weaker) on the same level as HE washers and low flow toilets that take about 3 hours to accomplish your task.


Post# 459368 , Reply# 18   1/12/2023 at 11:23 (549 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
Miscellanea

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Since this has gotten political shouldn't it be on the miscellanea page? Juust saying lol!! Propaganda indeed! Now what did I do with those files....??

Post# 459369 , Reply# 19   1/12/2023 at 12:05 (549 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
Well, I

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was still talking bout the stove.


Post# 459376 , Reply# 20   1/12/2023 at 13:34 (549 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
Yes, you were

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John,

But you need to keep in mind that this falls under the "global warming" category which has become very political and that's why it's an issue. I believe this will just lead to better ventilation regulations and maybe that's a good thing, time will tell.

Jim


Post# 459451 , Reply# 21   1/14/2023 at 08:54 (547 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
California plans to outlaw gas heaters.

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I guess if it burns it has to go.

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Post# 459452 , Reply# 22   1/14/2023 at 09:24 (547 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
There are consequences for clean energy.

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Dead whales are washing up on our shores, is this a sign of what they call progress?

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Post# 459462 , Reply# 23   1/14/2023 at 12:18 (547 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
CNN helps to push the "propaganda."

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Telling the truth seems to get you in trouble at CNN. Let the "propaganda" continue.

Jim


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Post# 459556 , Reply# 24   1/18/2023 at 15:55 (542 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

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I'll never cook on anything other than Gas. They will have to pry my commercial stove out of my cold dead hands to get it. If I had not gone into the vacuum business, I would have been a chef and own my own restaurant. I cook with Fire!

Post# 459588 , Reply# 25   1/19/2023 at 15:20 (541 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
There will always be gas.

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There are 3 ovens in my kitchen.. 2 are electric. The gas stove is a 5 burner appliance.  You could cremate a body on that thing.

 

 Gas is so controllable, too.  You turn it off, and it goes off.  Electric stays hot a long time.

But, there will also always be gasbags out there as well.

 


Post# 459615 , Reply# 26   1/20/2023 at 09:43 (541 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

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I woke up to an an interesting piece on NPR this morning about this controversy, examining the relative effectiveness of the left's and and the right's rhetoric. the right is basically owning the debate with a personal and alarmist (if somewhat overstated) message—'they're coming for your gas stove', while the left's message, based on a long-known issue of indoor air quality, with long-standing guidance to always run the exhaust (one that vents to the outside and not back in your face) when using a gas stove, combined with environmentalists' general push against gas because it contributes to climate change, is failing too broad to gain much traction because it lacks a component of individual impact. The piece went on to say that an outright ban is very unlikely and has only been expressed as a possibility that some officials are open to examining. There is no legislation or executive order pending.

Post# 459652 , Reply# 27   1/21/2023 at 10:34 (540 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        
NPR piece on gas stoves

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Here's a link to the NPR piece I was referring to above. It really puts things into perspective. Again, relax. Nobody's coming for your gas stove...or gas logs...or gas grill...or gas water heater...or gas dryer....

CLICK HERE TO GO TO human's LINK


Post# 459664 , Reply# 28   1/22/2023 at 11:09 (539 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
Time will tell

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"It's always good to know where someone sits before you ask them where they stand."
.
This is one man's point of view who is a leftist and globalist. How many times have we heard them say "there is nothing to see here" or "there's no there there"? only to find out the opposite....Time will tell stay tuned.

Side note: "Brady approaches stories from the consumer point-of-view to make clear how climate and energy policy-making affects individual lives. He has reported on gas utilities facing an uncertain future in a world more concerned about climate change, the long saga over the Keystone XL oil pipeline, the closing of a light bulb factory in Pennsylvania and how gas ranges pollute homes and (make climate change worse").

It's all about climate change this is not going away it's just been swept under the rug for now. Also back in the 70's they told us we were headed for the next ice age how quickly we forget...

Side note #2: Someone needs to tell Al Gore water boils at 212 deg F. If you add 5 teaspoons of salt to 1.3 gallons of water (5 liters of water), it will boil at 100.4 deg C. I don't remember ever seeing our oceans "boiling" but that's just me.

Jim




This post was last edited 01/22/2023 at 12:49
Post# 459687 , Reply# 29   1/23/2023 at 10:20 (538 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
"The debate is settled"

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"There's always two sides to every story, and then there is the truth"...."follow the money"

Jim


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Post# 459688 , Reply# 30   1/23/2023 at 11:06 (538 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
Teach the kids??

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Let the brainwashing continue!!

Jim


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Post# 459744 , Reply# 31   1/25/2023 at 15:18 (535 days old) by kirby519 (Wisconsin)        

I like a gas stove as well. Hope to heck they don't ban them. As someone else said just another way to control people.

I do have an interest in the induction cook tops. would like to try that out and see how it compares. I know you can get the hot plate styles however i don't think they would perform as well as the now availble cook tops. I saw one installed in a remodeled home years ago. The Home owner also liked a gas range and had one but also wanted to try the new technology at the time. Sad to say I do now know if the home owner liked the induction cook top installed or not.


Post# 459745 , Reply# 32   1/25/2023 at 15:35 (535 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

The induction technology has the potential to work well with some improvements, but still has some severe drawbacks in my eyes:

1 - the complexity. Lots of electronics are used, lots to go bad, esp when cheapo-made components are used (like electrolytic caps). These units will obsolete themselves quickly as control boards will be discontinued prematurely.

2 - they only work with magnetic cookware. Over 90% of quality cookware is non-ferrous, like aluminum, copper, good stainless for easy care and good heat transfer. Low grades of stainless may work somewhat, but not was well as pure ferrous. Improved ferrous cookware will help but many people may have already spent a lot on their current cookware (like me)...

I was given an 'Induxpert' standalone induction cooktop and I tested it with everything I had. Only my cast iron skillet worked and it worked somewhat close to how gas would. Problem is that if you lift the pan for more than a few seconds to shift ingredients or stir, the unit shuts off, leaving me frustrated.
I am close to donating this thing.

My mom's 1966 gas cooktop original to her house still works great! Has been 100% reliable so far...


Post# 459768 , Reply# 33   1/26/2023 at 09:00 (535 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

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texaskirbyguy wrote: These units will obsolete themselves quickly as control boards will be discontinued prematurely.

I reply: This is why I refer to control boards as self-destruct devices. They're designed to fail, shortly after the warranty expires. The rapid discontinuation of specific control board models is done to ensure most consumers will simply give up and replace the appliance, which is more profitable to the manufacturer. They want us to forget that major household appliances once fell into a category known as 'durable goods'. I was faced with this a few years ago when the control board on my Lady Kenmore electric range went out. My home warranty company gave me the option of cashing me out for about $325 or having the board rebuilt. I chose the latter. When the technician came to install it, he said it should be good for at least another 25 years, based on the age of the stove.


Post# 459769 , Reply# 34   1/26/2023 at 10:54 (535 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

I hate circuit boards in appliances with a passion.

I am an electronics engineer and circuit board designer, and I get a lot of insight on how things are made now. In short it is pretty sad, and re-enforces why I buy or keep vintage stuff as much as possible.

Given that most of them are made in China, the factories there usually have the freedom to substitute in the cheapest parts they can find, as long as the specs are equal to or better than designed. This is easy - anything can be written... However there are no real measures on the quality for parts that are not rated for military, aerospace, or automotive. So whether it may be a flashlight or light bulb or a built-in oven, the discrete parts quality can be the same. And a failure of one cap in a board with 500 parts, can render the whole board 'bad'. Even appliance techs will not troubleshoot a board to component level, and they are not allowed to. They have to replace the whole board as spec'ed by the manufacturer.
Now the manufacturer is the one to choose how long boards may be available, if at all. Luckily Carrier still had a factory control board for my 25 year old furnace that I had replaced a few years back after it developed a hate for the cold.

A few years back I had to replace a cap on the board in my 25 year old GE range as it caused the timer beeper to constantly squeal. Luckily the board was only for a clock and timer, not for gas controls, as it was discontinued.

Brand does not mean quality anymore either as the boards are subcontracted out.
I scavenge stuff from the curb to see if there are simple fixes so they can be donated or sold. Build quality is pretty bad from what I have seen. Even JBL, bose and Klipshe use cheap off-brand caps that fail prematurely. Some models even used off-the-shelf self-contained amp chips like one would find in a TV or car radio. TVs have similar issues with caps and LEDs in the backlights - one goes out, the whole string does. Microwave magnatrons do not get proper cooling. I can go on and on........

And just when I thought that something could not be made cheaper and/or worse, they are.

When going through some new houses under construction, I noticed all the water heaters were tankless - very complex control boards in those. A complex HVAC damper control unit was used to regulate the upstairs with the downstairs temps. Lets not forget that the heatpumps and the air handler and thermostat have control boards also.
The fireplaces were remote controlled, so that means control boards there in a hot area.
Even the bathroom exhaust fans all had DC brushless motors for energy efficiency. I bet the caps in the control board will fail in 10 years, and the units have to be replaced. I have never had an AC bath fan go bad. Maybe every 30 years I would take one down (they unplug) to clean and oil it, thats it.

Energy efficient stuff is not specifically designed to save consumers money in the long run (although it can unintendedly), but to just collectively save power off the grid so that it can be wasted in new places.

I would hate to see what a lightning strike would do to a modern home...
And those with gas and appliances that are electrically controlled will be in the cold in a power outage.
During a recent 4 hour outage I still had hot water, a stove, and a gas unvented fireplace.

Time for me to get off the soap box now and burn it for heat...


Post# 459839 , Reply# 35   1/29/2023 at 08:27 (532 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
'We're saving the planet"

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They're going to save the planet and hurt the poorest people among us in the process.

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Post# 460025 , Reply# 36   2/3/2023 at 11:54 (527 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        
WH walks back possible stove ban after outrage

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Oct 25th, 2022, NPR memo: NPR proposing ban on gas stoves (indoor air quality)

"The need for gas stove regulation has reached a boiling point...There is sufficient information available for CPSP to issue an NPR in FY 2023 proposing to ban gas stoves in homes."

Richard Trumka JR.
Consumer product safety Commission (CPSC)
Oct 25,2022

So Onces again they tell us there is "nothing to see here" and then there is the truth. Let's boil this down. They do want to come after our gas stoves according to this memo. "it has reached a boiling point" So they sent out a test balloon and it blew up in their faces so now they claim that they really didn't mean it and this is all "right wing hype."

"This is not going away it's just been swept under the rug for now." "it's not what the liberal media tells you, it's what they don't tell you that you need to know about."

Jim


Post# 460058 , Reply# 37   2/4/2023 at 19:31 (525 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

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I'm not following you here. NPR (National Public Radio) is not proposing a ban on gas stoves, nor do they have the authority to do so. They just report the news. According to the article linked below, one commissioner on the Consumer Product Safety Commission—just one—is "open to the possibility of a nationwide ban". It's not even to the point of being proposed and thus it's nowhere near a done deal, nor is it likely to ever be one.

Read the article. It points out that a more efficient, less polluting gas burner technology has existed for quite some time, but up until now, it has failed to gain traction in the marketplace. Perhaps its time has finally come. The article also reiterates the long-standing guidance to use an exhaust van, vented to the outside, whenever a gas stove is in use.

Realistically, a nationwide ban on gas stoves is simply not feasible. The far more likely possibility is that requirements for improved technology on new stoves will be implemented and the older types will gradually be retrofitted or replaced as they wear out or consumers decide to upgrade on their own.

I'm old enough to remember the mid '70s when catalytic converters were first required on cars. They didn't immediately ban older cars that burned leaded fuel; in fact, they kept selling leaded fuel for another 15 years or so, until the majority of pre-emissions cars aged out as a natural progression.





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Post# 460063 , Reply# 38   2/5/2023 at 10:48 (525 days old) by VacMadMan (Pueblo Co.)        

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Here is another article on the subject. I don't know what NPR is here.

"On January 9, 2023, Bloomberg published an article titled, US safety agency to consider ban on gas stoves amid heath fears; in which consumer product safety commissioner (CPSC) commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. claimed that gas stoves are a hidden hazard...Any option is on the table. Products that can't be made safe can be banned; A ban was presaged on October 25, 2022 When Commissioner Trumka sought to initiate a notice of proposed rulemaking at the CPSC to ban gas stoves in homes. In both Bloomberg article and a memorandum authored by Commissioner Trumka, titled 'NPR proposing Ban on gas stoves (indoor air quality); two studies were cited that attributed gas stoves to high levels of nitrous oxide as well as childhood asthma."

Side note: All I'm showing here is that this was talked about this is an issue despite those who say again "there is nothing to see here" "they are not coming for your stoves". Whether it is feasible or not, it is an issue being considered.


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This post was last edited 02/05/2023 at 12:13
Post# 460180 , Reply# 39   2/9/2023 at 10:46 (521 days old) by a007kirbyman (--->> Originally My Mom <<--- (now Wisconsin))        
NPR...

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(NPR) = "...notice of proposed rulemaking..."

Post# 460224 , Reply# 40   2/11/2023 at 23:42 (518 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hmm

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I'm glad we have electricity to help ignite the gases we use. I'm for ventilation systems. Water softeners help extend water heaters life from 10 years to 25 to 30 years. It also extend the life of anything using water.
I like throwing wood in our fire pit and cooking food a couple times a year.
I'm not going to say anything else.


Post# 460417 , Reply# 41   2/17/2023 at 22:06 (512 days old) by kirby519 (Wisconsin)        
@Texaskirbyguy

I too despise circuit boards in just about anything. Just went over 13 months with out two auto scrubbers we needed. over circuit boards. Waited 7 months to get new ones only to find both of them defective and waited another 6 months to get the replacements. Now have a hard surface sweeper that needed a new circuit board only to have the replacement board bad. I will take simple breakers and solenoids any day.

As for the gas stoves and appliances I don't know of anyone that has suffered from using them. Just more propaganda to keep us focused on something else but what is really going on behind the smoke screens and mirrors.

Our family is going thru similar "concerns" over a great grandchild brought on by his mother. Watched my Mother and Fathers hearts broken Christmas eve by not being able to hold his great grandson and Mom not allowed to take pictures over the flash on the camera. Then listened to back pedaling and excuse making on New Years day about all of this. Sadly my brother is done with his son over all of this.

Makes me glad I don't take all these "health concerns" to heart. I would never leave home. I worked all thru Covid and never got sick. I do commercial cleaning.
I traveled by air from Georgia back home to Wisconsin March of 2020 and never got sick. And this was supposed to wipe out civilization.

Not even a recent first time seizure episode stopped me. Just kept me for being able to drive myself around for 3 months. Went thru all the tests and got a clean bill of health and $4,600.00 in medical bills not covered by insurance.



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