Thread Number: 27126  /  Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
SEBO returns to Argos
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Post# 303624   10/29/2014 at 12:30 (3,466 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Online only, but good to see the brand back on Argos website. K. Felix & X vacuums.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK


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Post# 303625 , Reply# 1   10/29/2014 at 12:36 (3,466 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Ah, nice!
I remember seeing the Sebo X4 in white being sold in Argos approx 6 years ago, so it has been quite a while, but its good to see them back again
Thanks for sharing!


Post# 303627 , Reply# 2   10/29/2014 at 12:50 (3,466 days old) by marcusprit ()        

That's good to see
I hope Sebo do well out of it :-)


Post# 303631 , Reply# 3   10/29/2014 at 13:28 (3,466 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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Thanks for sharing that sebo_fan great to see SEBO's presence online at Argos.

Post# 303632 , Reply# 4   10/29/2014 at 13:29 (3,466 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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I'm sure they will do.

Post# 303635 , Reply# 5   10/29/2014 at 13:33 (3,466 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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I see SEBO UK was updating their online store the other day as you couldn't access it. I can't see any changes as such. The 'news' page is down at present. Can't wait to see the E series and Evolution. Maybe Argos will have the E series at some point!

Post# 303636 , Reply# 6   10/29/2014 at 13:38 (3,466 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I hope so that is the cleaner I'm looking forward too ;-)

Post# 303649 , Reply# 7   10/29/2014 at 15:24 (3,466 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Sebo X4 in white

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That was an X1.1, not an X4. Argos have never stocked the X4 before. It only lasted 2 catalogues  - Autumn/Winter 2007 and Spring/Summer 2008. It wasn't a particularly big seller being, at the time, the most expensive bagged vacuum in the catalogue. There was also some controversy with John Lewis as Argos were under-selling them and JL threatened to pull the whole Sebo range. JL are Sebo's biggest retailer in the UK, so it made sense for Sebo to stick by them.

I believe this problem continued, especially with online sellers. Hence Sebo brought out the X4 Excell specifically for JL. It's an X4 extra in a different colour scheme, but with a higher price tag.


Post# 303650 , Reply# 8   10/29/2014 at 15:29 (3,466 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Ah, right. Cheers for the info.

Post# 303668 , Reply# 9   10/29/2014 at 18:21 (3,466 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        

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Those look like fantastic prices for such high-end models compared to what we pay here in America. Your X4 pet costs only the equivalent of $495, while Amazon is asking $679 here! Any idea as to why this is? Are there are import taxes I'm unaware of? I can't imagine Americans having so much more disposable income, if any, to justify such higher prices.  


Post# 303695 , Reply# 10   10/30/2014 at 02:07 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I have seen the X4 for £218 over here which is about $357. Sebo and Miele are WAY overpriced in the US!
So are Riccar but we don't have Riccar in the UK.


Post# 303698 , Reply# 11   10/30/2014 at 03:09 (3,465 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Vacuums have always been more expensive in the US than in the UK/Europe.

Marcus, "overpriced" is all relative. Sebo are marketed in the same region as other high quality machines in the US, so it's not really that overpriced when looking at the US market.


Post# 303700 , Reply# 12   10/30/2014 at 03:45 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

A lot of electrical items cost less in the US than over here i know i visit my relatives over there twice a year but for some reason vacuum cleaners cost a lot more. A huge mark up for the dealers on Miele and Riccar. If customers are happy to pay these inflated prices over there then that's fine. :)

Post# 303705 , Reply# 13   10/30/2014 at 04:53 (3,465 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

I think its because of the average wages which are higher in the USA than in the UK.

Post# 303710 , Reply# 14   10/30/2014 at 05:24 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Not that much higher! And as I've said previously the Dealer can by the Riccar and Miele top models for no more than $500 then put a retail price of $1500 on them. $1000 mark up! I'd be asking questions if it were me :-)

Post# 303711 , Reply# 15   10/30/2014 at 06:21 (3,465 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The other aspect to remember Marcus, is that Miele in the U.S cap their vacuums in terms of spec. Unlike the UK, where you can custom build your Miele vac to your own requirements, most Miele vacs in the U.S have specific model names that tie in certain floor heads, extra accessories, power nozzle options etc - and steadily explains the tiered prices accordingly.

Having looked at SEBO's U.S site (I have a cousin in NYC where she had to order a Canadian spec D1 because SEBO in the U.S lacked a suction only model only offering the D4 - but now they have a similar model) it would appear that SEBO allow their owners to buy in optional parts to custom build - proof that not all brands are the same with their approaches.


Post# 303712 , Reply# 16   10/30/2014 at 06:32 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

That is true but it doesn't alter the fact that the dealer can buy a Riccar Radience or immaculate wholesale for $500 but then puts a retail price of $1500 miele is pretty much the same. Do you think a $1000 mark up is fair?$800 should be the maximum anyone should be paying!

Post# 303713 , Reply# 17   10/30/2014 at 06:49 (3,465 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I have come to the conclusion that SEBO build the finest bagged vacuums, in Europe at least. Love my felix. I also find their vacuums either look utilitarian and industrial, sort of classic looking like the X1 series, or retro and really stylish such as the D4's, but never at the sacrifice of usability. They are just really nice vacuums. I am a SEBO fan indeed. Much prefer them over Miele. I appreciate how SEBO still supply a power nozzle on two of their cylinders. That power nozzle being one of the best in the business.

I know that Argos sales as a whole have been increasing a lot during this year, was on TV a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully SEBO will again reach a wider market.

In the next couple of weeks, I am planning to get a Felix Vogue ECO, as I have given my felix navy to my sister, which she absolutely loves.


Post# 303714 , Reply# 18   10/30/2014 at 07:04 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

When it comes to uprights Sebo certainly rule the roost in Europe. I love Miele cylinders but bags and filters are on the pricey side and only a 2 year warranty compared to Sebo's less expensive bags, filters and 5 year warranty make Sebo better value in the long term.

Post# 303718 , Reply# 19   10/30/2014 at 08:19 (3,465 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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They do, but my personal tastes come down to Miele, whose present range is slightly better than the SEBO K series.

The K has been out for so long that I have gone through 3 different models, all of them suffering from the awful pull-pull cord rewind. I really hope that this new SEBO E model doesn't have a pull-pull cord rewind and goes back to a push button.

The D series is big and sufficient though - a premium step up from a Henry vacuum in my experience.

With Miele, you need to know the size of your home when justifying the different models and bag sizes. Ive been able to get a bit more than just 3 months from the current bag in my S8 and I'm impressed with the design.



Post# 303719 , Reply# 20   10/30/2014 at 08:43 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I hate pull cords so annoying! I have an S8 it's excellent. The new 3D bags last even longer and suction/airflow and filtration are hard to beat. Not sure about the models with the airteq floor head though. I use either the standard combo tool or my battery powered accu Nova. I don't like the noise of turbo brushes.

Post# 303720 , Reply# 21   10/30/2014 at 08:52 (3,465 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Having had the heavy experience already with the old S6 Ecoline I had and the AirTeq twin pedalled floor head, I have a small range of older Miele suction only floor heads that can be used with the S8. Much prefer the older ones - the AirTeq double pedal ones are far too heavy, even if they are more durable - in my experience.



Post# 303721 , Reply# 22   10/30/2014 at 08:57 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I prefer the standard floorhead that came with my S5. The Airteq is supposed to have better pick up to compensate for the lower power motors. I haven't tried one so i don't know if this is true?



Post# 303723 , Reply# 23   10/30/2014 at 11:50 (3,465 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Miele claimed that the double pedal AirTeq head could clean up pet hairs. Not with me. I find it too bulky as well. Their thinner "AirTeq" branded single pedal floor head supplied with the S8 now, is ok. I bought one last year as a replacement for my old S5211 and before I sold it on, no different to the previous ones, really.

Post# 303724 , Reply# 24   10/30/2014 at 12:04 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

In 2017 when the motors will be capped at 900w all the mieles will probably have the Airteq double pedal floorhead apart from the electric power head model. Unless they come up with something new.


Post# 303736 , Reply# 25   10/30/2014 at 14:48 (3,465 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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I cant say I agree because both Morphy Richards, Numatic and even AEG are already beginning to use the same Wessel Werk floor head that Bosch, Miele and SEBO have always used. I can't see how it would benefit Miele owners to have the much heavier floor head. In reality I find that the standard Miele floor heads offer just as good a cleaning performance than the double pedal floor head.



Post# 303741 , Reply# 26   10/30/2014 at 15:05 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Well it seems Miele use the double pedal floorhead on all their 700w and 700w motors because they say it gives the same performance as the 1600w motor. Eco line and silence. They only use the standard floorhead on the 1600w motor.

Post# 303742 , Reply# 27   10/30/2014 at 15:07 (3,465 days old) by marcusprit ()        

That should say 700w and 800w :-)

Post# 303771 , Reply# 28   10/30/2014 at 18:54 (3,465 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Not quite - the C1 Ecoline or otherwise known as the S2 model that has an 800 watt motor makes do with Miele's budget plastic floor head, the 350-3 floor head.

Miele's 2 pedalled floor head would only be fitted to higher end models.

Miele may be expensive but they are known to cap certain specs per models - otherwise there would be no point in going for higher priced models, if the floor heads were all the same with an Eco range.

In SEBO's defence, the K series have certain different characteristics - the K1 base model has a 1.8 metre hose, all others have a 2.1 metre hose.


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Post# 303781 , Reply# 29   10/30/2014 at 19:40 (3,465 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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This is great! But the true question is, when will Eureka be returning to Montgomery Ward? tongue-out


Post# 303832 , Reply# 30   10/31/2014 at 02:20 (3,464 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes your are correct Sebo Fan the C1 has the 350-3 floorhead. I missed that.

But the 650-3 floorhead is supposed to have better pick up giving the same performance as the 1600w motor using a 700w or 800w motor.

Whether it does i don't know as i've not tried it.


Post# 303841 , Reply# 31   10/31/2014 at 04:57 (3,464 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Miele claim all sorts of things - as an experienced owner - you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. Personally I find the double pedal AirTeq floor heads don't make much of a difference compared to standard suction combi floor heads.

For the same cost price, SEBO's patented Deluxe Kombi is better in my experience, plus it goes flat to the floor due to its double jointed neck.


Post# 303842 , Reply# 32   10/31/2014 at 05:13 (3,464 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I am picking up at John Lewis later today a Felix vogue eco. The colour scheme looks gorgeous. Will post a thread hopefully later today. :D

Post# 303844 , Reply# 33   10/31/2014 at 06:22 (3,464 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I shall stick with my standard floorhead then Sebo Fan :-)

Oliveoil are you going off the Dyson now then?


Post# 303846 , Reply# 34   10/31/2014 at 06:34 (3,464 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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I thought about buying a new Felix, but to be honest my old one keeps on going. I see no point in buying a new one, though I would be interested to know, obviously what you think of the new Eco motor when you do get it, Oli.

Im ever so happy with my old 360. I initially thought it would be too big for my home but I have been pleasantly surprised. Just does what I want it to do, and has better performance than the X1 due to it having a manual height adjustment.


Post# 303850 , Reply# 35   10/31/2014 at 07:42 (3,464 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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Ooo let you us know oliveoiltinfoil hoe the new Felix Vogue with the new Eco motor is like sebo_fan says. Be interesting to know how it performs. Not had chance to go and try out these new Eco models from SEBO.

Post# 303909 , Reply# 36   10/31/2014 at 18:09 (3,464 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I reserved it today, picking it up tomorrow (it is now 11:05 pm on Friday 31st. Happy Halloween everyone :)

Hmm, not really, marcusprit. I love the dyson. It cleans wonderfully and is certainly the best bagless vacuum I have used, but since having a lot of family over recently due to my dad passing away, and how much more messy the house has got, and the more often I have had to empty the bin, the less I am liking bagless machines, but I knew this anyway. It is like I said, you cant have it all ways. With bagless vacuums, we know there is this problems, with bags, you have rotting filth for weeks at a time, but having a charcoal filter reduces this a lot I must say. I just love the felix and have never said otherwise.

Yes, the felix has a couple of problems, the dyson does, but the felix is a classic all rounder, can do it all. VW Golf of vacuums - German quality and efficiency in a package a lot of people can use and get hold of, if this makes sense.

I am getting the vogue because the colour scheme looks really nice, and different.


Post# 303916 , Reply# 37   10/31/2014 at 18:34 (3,464 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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So sorry to read your loss, Oli.

Post# 303948 , Reply# 38   11/1/2014 at 03:03 (3,463 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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Sorry to hear of your loss oliveoiltinfoil. I know where your coming from with regards to emptying a bagless vacuum. Must admit I don't miss emptying one. Your right they both have their issues bag or bagless.

Nice choice the Felix Vogue. Look forward to hearing what you think of the Eco version of the Felix Vogue.


Post# 303949 , Reply# 39   11/1/2014 at 03:52 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I'm also sorry to hear of your loss. A very difficult time :-(

Can't say I have a problem emptying the bin. I find it easy. I wrap a bag around it tightly give it a shake then seal the bag with a clip throw it in the wheely bin. I'm happy to wave goodbye to the dirt n dust every week instead of it rotting in the bag for months on end.

I'm so impressed with this Dyson not sure I'll ever go back to a bagged upright again. It's the best vacuum cleaner I've used up to now :-)


Post# 303950 , Reply# 40   11/1/2014 at 04:23 (3,463 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Ahh thank you everyone. Yes, I am not only worrying about vacuum cleaners. He did pass a few weeks back, but life goes on. Just gotta move forward !

Anyways yes, it is hard for me to say which I prefer. Bagless is obviously the less expensive option, although bagged vacuums, especially SEBO bags are to be honest inexpensive to replace given how long they last. They work out at just over £1 per bag.

I'm picking it up later on, and shall post a thread once I have done so !


Post# 303951 , Reply# 41   11/1/2014 at 04:28 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Be interesting to see how the 700w motor compared to the 1300w. Might not be as much difference as you'd expect :-) Enjoy!

Post# 303962 , Reply# 42   11/1/2014 at 08:19 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Dont forget Marcus - we are all collectors - so, even if Oli adored the Dyson, the love for purchasing new vacs is never far away.

I was talking to a rep the other day regarding the SEBO E Airbelt - it has a ONE TOUCH cord rewind button. So relieved, so yes, I will be buying a SEBO E as soon as they arrive in the UK!


Post# 303965 , Reply# 43   11/1/2014 at 08:51 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes I'm looking forward to the E series. Will it have an exhaust filter similar to the D series?



Post# 303966 , Reply# 44   11/1/2014 at 09:04 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Im not sure. As far as I understand, it may use the same dust bags as the K series or filter cartridge. Im told it is also very quiet in use.

Post# 303969 , Reply# 45   11/1/2014 at 09:45 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Should be available in February. Might get the power nozzle model E3 I think it's going to be called. I know you're not a fan of power nozzles on cylinder cleaners but I prefer them to the noisy turbo brush. :-)

Post# 303975 , Reply# 46   11/1/2014 at 10:38 (3,463 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
dirt n dust every week instead of it rotting in the bag

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I'm the complete opposite. I'm highly allergic to dust allergens. I once had to empty a friends Argos Value bagless vac and was ill for 3 days afterwards.

 

I like the fact that all that dust and dirt is contained in a bag and not going anywhere. The minute you hit the bin release button on your bagless vac, you lose that sealed system and end up with leaks. It's unavoidable. I much prefer to put the bag seal on the Sebo bag and chuck it straight into the bin, not coming into any contact with that dust.

If you're already emptying your bagless bin into a bag, what's the point in using a bagless vacuum? Cut out the middle process and you cut out the inconvenience of having to empty it every week.


Post# 303976 , Reply# 47   11/1/2014 at 10:49 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I have allergies too. But as I say I hold the bag tight around the bin then seal the bag. I don't come into contact with the dust.
If I can find a bagged upright with the same performance, as easy to manoeuvre and the same level of filtration then I will change back to bagged. But right now nothing I've seen beats this Dyson in my opinion.
Maybe the Riccar would by they are only available in the US.


Post# 303979 , Reply# 48   11/1/2014 at 11:33 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Noisy turbo brushes...

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Well, in light of the fact that most vacuums now come with lower motors, not all turbo brushes are noisier. Or so I have found recently.

You might not personally come into contact with any dust, but bagless is still messy. Dyson and others make great claims about bottom trapdoor releases, but if you dump the dust into a kitchen bag, the dust goes everywhere in terms of dust clouds. Same with putting the dust into another bag before tying it up and shoving that into a kitchen bin.

I do have bagless vacuums though - they are worth considering for cheap and cheerful usage as well as other variations of usage such as cordless dust busters.


Post# 303980 , Reply# 49   11/1/2014 at 11:44 (3,463 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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I've Find emptying my Dyson perfectly fine It never flies in my face and it's really Easy. I empty mind in my Room In a Little Bin. Is super easy and it doesn't fires in my face or other vacuums.

Post# 303981 , Reply# 50   11/1/2014 at 11:45 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I empty the bin in my garden. The use a very long bag and I've noticed any dust clouds possibly cause I empty it when there's not a lot of dust in the bin.

I wouldn't say it was cheap n cheerful I would say it is very well engineered
Not as well built as Sebo but if I get 5 years use out of it I'll be more than happy


Post# 303982 , Reply# 51   11/1/2014 at 11:48 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I haven't noticed any dust clouds I should have said. I agree with you Dyson boy

Post# 303984 , Reply# 52   11/1/2014 at 11:50 (3,463 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

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Very well put Turbo500. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Marcusprit: Surely the Sebo Felix or X4 performs as well or better than the Dyson and would eliminate that 3rd step of emptying the dirt bin into a bag then disposing the bag. Most dust clouds are INVISIBLE and always happen whenever you empty a bagless vac into a wast basket. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. That dust just reappears on top of your furniture in a couple of days, then you have to vacuum it up all over again. When I vacuum my home with my Kirby Sentria, I KNOW my home is CLEAN!

 

 


Post# 303985 , Reply# 53   11/1/2014 at 11:51 (3,463 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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Thanks I Empty mine when it's completely fall and nothing poofs anywhere.

Post# 303987 , Reply# 54   11/1/2014 at 11:54 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I have a Felix I like it very much but it doesn't have the airflow and agitation of the Dyson if it did I would use it as my daily driver.
Anyway we all have our preferences I never used to rate Dyson but now I think they are EXCELLENT.


Post# 303989 , Reply# 55   11/1/2014 at 12:04 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

The Dyson is also easier to manoeuvre has better filtration a better hose assembly and edge cleaning on both sides. So in my humble opinion the Dyson wins :-)

Post# 303990 , Reply# 56   11/1/2014 at 12:06 (3,463 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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Is edge clean so well it Ashley it has got two little to agitators on both sides to agitate the dirt away from the side.

Post# 303994 , Reply# 57   11/1/2014 at 12:35 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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It all comes down to personal usage and what you like as per the design. However there are other considerations to take on board.

I don't think I would have a Dyson upright again - I find them too abrasive and whilst they may well have softer brush rolls these days, the fact that there's always that forceful suction that can't be adjusted means my wool carpets and other loop carpets are in danger of being ripped to shreds.

This is the reality of what happens when homes are required to have heavier, warmer carpets in colder conditions and if you have paid for the carpet YOURSELF.

I agree here with Sptyks in terms of actual invisible dust in the air

If you want a shocker invest in any one of those cheap globe fresh air machines. You'll be shocked once you go past them with a bagless vacuum. more so than one with a bag - the amount of dust particles that those machines catch and suck up out of the air is remarkable.


Post# 303996 , Reply# 58   11/1/2014 at 12:42 (3,463 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I have to disagree ever so slightly on the dyson's performance. In my honest opinion, the felix and dyson are very much neck and neck. They both win, in the own way, if this makes sense.

I love the dysons agitation. The suction at the head is the best I have ever come across on a vacuum. The agitation is very good. However, I have found on very low pile carpeting (I have kitchen carpet in the, yeah, kitchen!) it doesn't do as well, as the head is elevated slightly with the tiny wheels on the head. I think the bristles could do with being fuller and maybe two rows, and longer. What I most dislike about the dyson is probably the massive brush motor belt thing which leaves and inch of carpet ungroomed, and although I overlap my strokes, it is not a clean sweep. It means when you over lap, you have to make sure you go over the bit which is missed.

The felix on the other hand still has very good suction, even at the cleaner head, although it isn't as well sealed, which is a good and bad thing. It doesn't snow plough at all, and although you can change the slider on the dyson, when you do this, you loose a lot of suction.
The felix is much simpler in design, which a lot will like, in terms of how it performs. It is a large brushroll, thick with long stiff bristles, 2 rows and there are a lot of bristles.

With the sebo, you obviously do get a decrease in suction as the bag fills, but it is nothing on the scale bagged vacuum used to be with paper bags.

And as sebo_fan said, we are vacuum enthusiasts and not the average consumer. We love vacuums, not just one particular brand. Dyson and Sebo are my favourites for their respected type (bagged and bagless)

I have disregarded modern day Candy Hoover, Morphy Richards, Russell Hobbs, Samsung and Vax to producing cheap, throw away vacuums. I find Hoovers to be very over priced for what they are. Vax typically are well priced. None of these manfuacturers make "original" genuine vacs, rather produced by a third party somewhere in China. With dyson, Sebo, Numatic and Miele you are buying in house designed and made vacuums. Thing is, some hoover and vax products are as expensive as mieles and sebo's, but you are buying Chinese quality, not German or British quality.


Post# 303998 , Reply# 59   11/1/2014 at 12:51 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes no variable suction is something i miss on the Dyson that is a good point.You can overdo suction/airflow and agitation especially on wool and loop carpets.

I don't have wool or looped carpets though so i just want a vacuum that can pull out the maximum amount of dirt as possible and keep it in the machine.

I don't really have a preference to whether that is a bagged or bagless. The best performance, easiest to manoeuvre and best filtration is what i'm looking for.



Post# 303999 , Reply# 60   11/1/2014 at 12:51 (3,463 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Just to reiterate what Stan said, you can't always see the dust cloud, but it's always there. All those microscopic allergens that you've picked up ALWAYS fly all over the place when you empty a bagless vacuum.

What's the point of owning a bagless vacuum if you have to empty it into a bag anyway?


Post# 304000 , Reply# 61   11/1/2014 at 12:53 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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But thats the point I was also making, without actually saying it - to what extend does dirt become top fluff from a carpet after being continually cleaned? There is never an iota of maximum dust being pulled out of a carpet because eventually carpet tread will start to come out rather than actual dust!

Post# 304002 , Reply# 62   11/1/2014 at 13:00 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes Oliveoil there are pluses and minuses for both cleaners but i have to say having used both my carpets look alot cleaner after using the Dyson. And it has amazing performance on hard floors so it seals very even with the little wheels.

And personally i would rather have the belt in the middle of the floorhead and have edge cleaning on both sides, i find this easier.

But the perfect vacuum is yet to be invented :)


Post# 304005 , Reply# 63   11/1/2014 at 13:03 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes that is also true Sebo but there is also alot of dirt and grit deep in carpets that some cleaners miss, this grit can also wear down carpet fibres.

I guess its all about getting the balance right.


Post# 304006 , Reply# 64   11/1/2014 at 13:06 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Turbo the point is you can empty the dust after every clean it's not stuck in the bag rotting for months on end, plus i don't have to buy bags as i use the council supplied ones and i also don't have to buy filters., which over 5 years will be saving close to £200 :)

Post# 304011 , Reply# 65   11/1/2014 at 13:42 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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But even if dust rots in a bag, its not harmful if you have filters on board. I would find it annoying if I had to empty a vacuum cleaner each time I use it. With a bag you just let it fill up. Why else do you think hospitals and commercial venues still use bagged vacuums? Its not a matter of cost since the bags are far more hygienic.

Post# 304013 , Reply# 66   11/1/2014 at 13:50 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

In a commercial environment I can see bags being preferred. Like I say I have no preference for bagged or bagless just the best performance.
You don't have to empty the Dyson after every use but I chose to, it just takes a second it's no big deal.

Anyway we shall see what improvements come from the new ratings maybe I will go back to bagged in the future but for now I'm very happy with the Dyson :-)



Post# 304015 , Reply# 67   11/1/2014 at 13:58 (3,463 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        
This is something I never understood...

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How does dirt in a bag rot? Dirt is dirt! Unless you vacuum up a lot of food waste it still doesn't matter. Even it it does rot, it's in a HEPA bag made of several layers, so nothing escapes, not even odor. I'm basing this on my experience with the Kirby HEPA bag, which I replace every 3-4 months and I don't ever notice any odor.


Post# 304017 , Reply# 68   11/1/2014 at 14:02 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Of course it rots cause you get bacteria growing in it! And every bagged vacuum cleaner I've had smells including the Kirby.

Post# 304019 , Reply# 69   11/1/2014 at 14:05 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

And a HEPA bag doesn't stop odors a charcoal filter will help a bit but you still get some odor

Post# 304027 , Reply# 70   11/1/2014 at 14:37 (3,463 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

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You must have a dog, otherwise you must have some other source of bacteria infested dirt that I don't have in my house.

 


Post# 304029 , Reply# 71   11/1/2014 at 14:41 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Haha neither thank you very much! Why do you think Sebo, Miele and Riccar all use charcoal filters? Hmmmm

Post# 304043 , Reply# 72   11/1/2014 at 16:17 (3,463 days old) by blakaeg (NW London, UK)        

I disagree on the comment that Vax machines are of less quality. There's a lot if talk about it being Chinese blah blah and then I saw Dyson and British! Please can we remember that Dysons are made in Malaysia not the UK. iPhones are made in China and no one complains about that.

Vax UK may well design their machines in the UK or by TTI but they then just make them in China and I know of two people who own Vax Mach Air machines and are very pleased with them in the 2 and 4 years of ownership.

I've always found Dyson uprights great on both hard floors and carpets. If anything snowploughs then I pull the handle down to allow the head to suck up the item. I do not have any pets so can't say how well my Dyson uprights pick up dog and cat hairs. The Sebo Felix does an amazing job on carpets but I found hard floors its not as good. Theres a small gap between the head and the hard floor but its acceptable. I left the brush on to help it pick up better or put the parquet brush attachment on.

Recently used a Sebo K1 red machine and was impressed with it but I'm not a cylinder fan. Very powerful suction and VERY quiet motor!


Post# 304045 , Reply# 73   11/1/2014 at 16:22 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Vax just copy Dyson innovations. I had a Vax air upright. Wasn't very impressed I sold it.

I'd like to see Dyson bring their manufacturing back to the UK they make huge profits on their machines so they easily afford to. Doubt it will happen though.


Post# 304053 , Reply# 74   11/1/2014 at 17:06 (3,463 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

sptyks's profile picture

If Tacony can bring manufacturing back to USA from overseas, Dyson should be able to move manufacturing back to the UK.

 

Check this out:

 





Post# 304054 , Reply# 75   11/1/2014 at 17:07 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I agree with you on that point.

Post# 304055 , Reply# 76   11/1/2014 at 17:10 (3,463 days old) by marcusprit ()        

That is good to see. I wish they had Riccar cleaners in the UK!

Post# 304062 , Reply# 77   11/1/2014 at 17:46 (3,463 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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I owned and used both bagged and bagless vacuum cleaners over the years. I prefer to own a bagged vacuum specially having a pet. I don't miss emptying and cleaning the bin out and washing filters. Each to their own for personal preference.

You do have to ask if emptying a bagless bin into a plastic or paper bag surely defeats the object of bagless does it not? How many bagless owners empty the bin into a plastic bag? Emptying straight into the outside dust bin your disturbing the dust when you put other rubbish in there!? Then you have landfill. Dyson mention the new EU labels don't mention all the bags and filters that end up in landfill. What about all the users that empty bagless vacuum bins into plastic or paper bags that end up in landfill. Most plastic bags these days are biodegradable though, not sure about breakdown of synthetic bags. I'm not dissing Dyson just making a comment. Bag or bagless they have their pros and cons down to personal choice I think.

I always questioned the rubber seals on bagless. When you empty the bin via the bottom trap door the rubber seals get coated in dirt and fine dust. I used to wipe them clean before closing the trap door. How many users do this? Most just empty and close. Surely the fine dust and dirt on the rubber seals will not give 100% seal? That's just me questioning this!

Marcusprit can I ask you say you will save £200 over the 5 years is that filters and bags? If so how many filters and bags would this roughly be? I know the Dyson Cinetic your suppose to save on average use £500 over 10 years on bags and filters.



Post# 304063 , Reply# 78   11/1/2014 at 17:51 (3,463 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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One bag per month and one filter per year.

Post# 304064 , Reply# 79   11/1/2014 at 18:03 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
One bag a month? Well, if you have a Hoover stick vac with a bag capacity of 1.5 litres.

Average dust bags these days last a lot longer than a month these days - just depends on the capacity and the brand.


Post# 304065 , Reply# 80   11/1/2014 at 18:07 (3,463 days old) by blakaeg (NW London, UK)        

Vax may copy designs, but so do others. The Mach Air really impressed me. Good performance, quiet and cheaper to buy. I do not like their swivelling upright machines. The hose connector is rubbish and keeps popping off the wand handle. The Mach Air didnt do this and stayed firmly in place. A Mach Air will be my next machine when my DC24 blows up, forgot to mention the handle on my DC24 has broken for the 5th time. Luckily I have a spare one in the cupboard.

Dyson could bring manufacturing back of they really wanted to, but why should they, if they are making more money

producing in Malaysia, it makes business sense to keep it where it is.

I never look forward to emptying my Dyson indoors but replacing the bag in the Sebo was a breeze.


Post# 304068 , Reply# 81   11/1/2014 at 18:26 (3,463 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well it begs the question to why Dyson can't come back to the UK when you see Numatic manufacturing in the UK.

You better get the fixed position Vax Mach Air's quickly before they are all replaced by the swivel ones.


Post# 304082 , Reply# 82   11/1/2014 at 19:38 (3,463 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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Because Dyson is in it for the money, not the job force! surprised


Post# 304086 , Reply# 83   11/1/2014 at 20:44 (3,463 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Of course Vax are made in China, as are iPhones, but plenty of people have moaned and complained about iPhones being made in China, especially the conditions the workers are put through. They have nets around the buildings to catch the workers if they try to comet suicide. I need say no more.

There is no denying it, China is not like Korea and Japan when it comes to quality and giving the customer what they want. As much as it is the fault of western companies investing in China, there is a lot of spying that goes on at Chinese facilities, especially at car plants.

The Koreans and especially the Japanese have a knack similar to the Germans when it comes to creating something to the best of their ability. Quality is at the forefront, just look at what this ethic has done to their car industries. China have been making products for nearly as long as the Japanese and Koreans, yet the quality is still lacking in many aspects, yet the cost of the products do not equate to what you get. Hoover still want to charge £300 for a Chinese made vacuum. You can get a decent Miele or top of the line Sebo for that cash.

And also, dirt in bags does rot. You are picking up skin cells, dust, moulds and allergies among food crumbs and in some cases animal hair, which does decompose, although having S class and HEPA filters does more or less eliminate it.

One thing I have pondered over is although my dysons performance is very good, what is the point of picking up all them allergies and fine particles if they are going to fly up in the air and cover yourself in them? Even taking the bin outsides, I still get clouds of dust. It obviously depends on each household. At least with a bag you just wait for it to become full, seal the bag in which ever way and dump it.

Long story short, I can see the arguments on both sides, but as of recent, I am preferring bags.


Post# 304088 , Reply# 84   11/1/2014 at 21:14 (3,463 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

dys0nb0y's profile picture
I'm gonna say is I have barely had a dust cloud Emptying my vacuum cleaner

Post# 304119 , Reply# 85   11/2/2014 at 01:32 (3,462 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Olive Oil the wheels do not protrude above the seals on the Dyson Floorhead this is why it does such a fantastic job on hard floors. If they protruded it would leave a gap and wouldn't clean so well.

And you still have to overlap your strokes with the Felix as the bristles don't reach to the edge of the floorhead on the right hand side where the belt is.

More rows of bristles possibly but you produced a video showing how fantastic the agitation is on the Dyson. Best i've seen on an upright.

I'[m an allergy sufferer so if i were getting a face full of dust when i empty the bin i would be sneezing terribly but i've not sneezed once.

The Dyson works amazingly well for me, i won't be changing until something better comes along. :)


Post# 304124 , Reply# 86   11/2/2014 at 05:08 (3,462 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Regarding bagless machines, Dyson machines today are good for emptying, its hygienic as the trigger to release the bin flap open is at the top of the handle, not down at the bottom where the dust is near your hand trying to press the button. You can just empty the vac outside, no problem. If it is windy, stand the other direction so that dust wont blow on you. If this is still a dilemma, amity the thing into a plastic bag which are free from supermarkets. Vacuum bags are a cost which can result in a sum of money overtime whereas there are no extra costs with some bagless machines (not the cheap ones).


Post# 304125 , Reply# 87   11/2/2014 at 05:12 (3,462 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

BTW dont bagged vacuums release a dust cloud when you take the bag off? I mention this because. I have experienced this with the Henry, take the bag off and the bucket can get dusty , and yes I take the bags out with care and try to prevent this, but it still happens, the cover for the hole is so that your journey from the vacuum to the bin is dust free.

Post# 304127 , Reply# 88   11/2/2014 at 05:43 (3,462 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

But Parwaz, don't forget that all bagless vacuums need those pricy little FILTERS! surprised


Post# 304128 , Reply# 89   11/2/2014 at 05:50 (3,462 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Super sweeper the DC41 Mk11 will not require new filters during the 5 year warranty period. The cyclones are so efficient now that they even filter down to 0.5 microns and the filters stay clean for long periods :-)

Post# 304130 , Reply# 90   11/2/2014 at 06:33 (3,462 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
I can vouch for that Marcus. My filter has not got a spec of dust on it and I have had it for around 6 weeks now.

Post# 304131 , Reply# 91   11/2/2014 at 06:36 (3,462 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes Oliveoil British engineering has a lot to be said for it. :-)

Post# 304136 , Reply# 92   11/2/2014 at 07:05 (3,462 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
dont bagged vacuums release a dust cloud when you take the b

turbo500's profile picture

depends on the vacuum.

 

Miele bags seal automatically when you open the bag door.  Sebo bags have a plastic cover that goes on before you remove the bag from the holder. The Henry bags can cause some dust to leak, yes, but if you tip the bin on it's bag so the dust all drops to the back of the back before you take it off the holder, this doesn't happen.




This post was last edited 11/02/2014 at 09:02
Post# 304162 , Reply# 93   11/2/2014 at 08:08 (3,462 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
My filter has no dust on it in six weeks.

sebo_fan's profile picture
Six weeks? That short? Try three months - or so much with a lot of bagged vac filters that don't even get that dusty because the bag gets the most of the dust.

Anyway Henry's HEPA FLO bags have an outer seal that swings over and pushes in past the rubber seal. I haven't found any dust to leak out of those seals - perhaps with the paper bags in a Henry, but not the HEPA Flo types.

Whilst I agree with Chris here, a lot of brands are now offering the same approach as Miele, and even before Miele did the inner self seals, they had outer pull strips in the same way that Electrolux have offered as well as Hoover with their Purepower uprights and plenty of other brands. The amount of dust that comes off a bag is NOTHING compared to the amount of dust dumped on a floor on from a dust cloud when I've emptied bagless vacs in the past.

But then some owners just pull the bag roughly off the channel which casts a big cloud of unnecessary dust. As do owners who continually bang the bagless dust bin off the side of their refuse bin when dust gets stuck at the top of the shrouds.



Post# 304173 , Reply# 94   11/2/2014 at 08:40 (3,462 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
6 weeks doesn't sound a lot, but with most bagless vacuums, dust starts visibly accumulating after the first couple of uses. 6 weeks and a clean filter is still impressive.

I have never had problems with dust clouds for bagged vacuums. Biggest problem I have had with bagged vacuums was the older paper ones which would split and the dirt would go everywhere, however the new, cloth type bags are much more durable, more hygienic and loose less suction and are generally more efficient. I prefer sebo bags in terms of sealing in the dirt, although it is a flap you have to put on yourself like the numatic bags, it cover the hole itself, rather than mieles flap which is spring loaded from the inside, and I found that my S7, the bag would accumulate near this flap and it didn't make a proper seal as the flap would close, but dirt would stop it from closing properly.

I did moan about the SEBO bags leaking pet hairs, although I have replaced the bag when I gave it to my sister, and she has 2 cats and 2 dogs and there is no leaking whatsoever, so maybe it was a "bad batch".


Post# 304176 , Reply# 95   11/2/2014 at 08:45 (3,462 days old) by marcusprit ()        

The best bag I have come across is the Miele bag. Fantastic although a bit pricey.

Post# 304179 , Reply# 96   11/2/2014 at 08:57 (3,462 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Ahh OK, cheers for tip Chris

Post# 304232 , Reply# 97   11/2/2014 at 14:36 (3,462 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

6 weeks is a short period of time, be sure to report back later on about the filter status! wink


Post# 304328 , Reply# 98   11/3/2014 at 06:52 (3,461 days old) by blakaeg (NW London, UK)        

Some people may complain about Iphones being made in China but its not affected Apple sales. What happens when a new one comes out? Theres a mad rush and they are sold out. Not much one can do when increasing about of goods are being made there.

Back on the subject of SEBO. I enjoyed the K1 red machine which performed quite well but I don't understand why the power control is set to Anti Clockwise for MAX and Clockwise for LOW power. The cable rewind released by slightly tugging on the cord, I don't really like this design as the cord starts to go back in when I have caught it under a chair leg for example. But the rest of the machine felt very sturdy and I love how quiet the machine is, even on its full power setting. My Dyson DC24 is so much more noisier.

The Felix Classic is 7 years old now and still performs very well. It has all its original parts and the filters have not been replaced yet. The family love their X1 machine which is fantastic again. Prefer an X1 over any X4.


Post# 304329 , Reply# 99   11/3/2014 at 06:59 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()        

The DC24 was noisy but the DC41 Mk11 is a lot quieter. Very similar noise to the Felix.I wasn't keen on the K1 I think the new E series will be an improvement.



Post# 304345 , Reply# 100   11/3/2014 at 07:54 (3,461 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

The DC41 mk2 is quieter than a DC24? Wow! Impressive considering the DC24 has a 650w motor in a compact machine, in comparison to the full size DC41 which is like the best performing Dyson

Post# 304350 , Reply# 101   11/3/2014 at 08:21 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I find it a lot quieter than previous Dysons. I have a Sebo Felix which is quieter than most and the DC41 Mk11 is only a tiny bit louder. Hardly noticeable.

The DC41 Mk11 has a 700w motor. Anyway maybe you should try it and then you can comment :)


Post# 304368 , Reply# 102   11/3/2014 at 10:22 (3,461 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

That sounds very good! Thanks XD am so tempted

Post# 304491 , Reply# 103   11/3/2014 at 17:42 (3,461 days old) by blakaeg (NW London, UK)        

I'm going to Currys in Purley Way, Croydon on Saturday. Will try out a DC41 mk2 and a DC40 2015 to compare noise levels.

The DC50 seems to be noisier than the DC24 only by a bit.


Post# 304512 , Reply# 104   11/3/2014 at 19:29 (3,461 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Sebo controls and machine details etc.

sebo_fan's profile picture
Like mostly everything SEBO design, it requires the owner to get to know the vacuum in question rather than just rely on the controls or what you've done before.

I never bothered about the way the suction control dial on the K moved but SEBO were crafty in adding that small to enlarged plastic concave acting as the low to high suction indicator.

You can always tell a private company though in the way they design things - the K3 has a fixed control dial since the suction control is on the handle due to the electric hose - but the company haven't made the K3 or the K3 Vulcano a unique design in terms of that concave being removed.

A cost cutting idea maybe but some owners would probably feel they haven't had such a unique machine with the permanent concave set into the plastic for the higher cost prices.

Im not one for fancy dials and LED lights. If a machine has a running light or a bag fill light, then that's all I really like. I've had vacuums before with LED lights showing the suction strength but they soon break in long term ownership.

Another thing that teaches me differently over other vacuums is that SEBO filters for the most part can only be fitted one way. Same with the dust bags. Ever so simple, ever so reliable.


Post# 304574 , Reply# 105   11/4/2014 at 06:24 (3,460 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
There seems to be a conflict in info regarding the SEBO E Airbelt - I was told by a rep that the machine would be using the K series bags and filters.

However, I have just had a confirmation from SEBO UK that the new E series will have its OWN bags and filters. Hurray!


Post# 304577 , Reply# 106   11/4/2014 at 06:40 (3,460 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Excellent. Because the D series was an award winning design I think it will be similar just a more compact version.


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