Thread Number: 23499
Numatic Henry HVR200A
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Post# 263143   1/13/2014 at 07:05 (2,835 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I have a dead henry!

25 from ebay.

From Henry HVR200A

From Henry HVR200A

Dead as a dodo. Only had a few minutes before having to get back to the office, so I:

Put it's fuse into my Meiele S5, which ran fine, so not the fuse.
Took the top cover off (not motor part) and had a look at the wiring to see if I could work out how to bypass the hi-lo feature. Failed!

Will have a proper look tonight, and sort this thread out to the standard you have all become accustomed to, but if anyone knows how to bypass the hi-lo feature so I can see if Henry really is terminal or not, that would be great.

It's rather clean tbh. Came with it's small tools, floor brush isn't ruined and the body isn't bashed about. Light domestic use I think.

Will try to get some garage time later.




This post was last edited 01/13/2014 at 09:38
Post# 263149 , Reply# 1   1/13/2014 at 08:32 (2,835 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        
Hi,

kirbymodel2c's profile picture

Hi Sam, Hope your ok. Not spoke in a while. I've sent you a private msg on here to give you some help.

If you need any more help you know where I am. 

 

JamesSmile


Post# 263151 , Reply# 2   1/13/2014 at 08:55 (2,835 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Sweet, cheers James.

Between you and Ric (on faceache) I think I have enough to get cracking with, hopefully a few minutes after 4pm tonight I should know wether I've wasted 25 or not!


Post# 263158 , Reply# 3   1/13/2014 at 09:39 (2,835 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Changed the title so it wouldnt be miselading once I'm outside of the editable time frame...

Nothing to see here yet!


Post# 263178 , Reply# 4   1/13/2014 at 12:35 (2,835 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Well, after removing the hi lo Gubbins and making henry single speed...

He works, like new too! As per my facebook post, I think I've narrower it down to the pcb, so will get one of those once ive Confirmed its demise with a multimeter.

However until then the return can continue as normal


Post# 263180 , Reply# 5   1/13/2014 at 12:39 (2,835 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

With an Eco Henry, I have found no need to use the power boost button, unless there is really heavy soil on carpet or hard floor. I never saw the point of putting the hi lo on either.

Post# 263212 , Reply# 6   1/13/2014 at 18:02 (2,835 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture
It is probablt the PCB I have seen a lot of these 2010 models have that fail.

Post# 263295 , Reply# 7   1/14/2014 at 09:11 (2,834 days old) by spiraclean (UK)        

spiraclean's profile picture
Haven't cracked an Autosave open myself yet, but would it be possible to revert one of these back to the earlier style manual hi/lo switch? If the parts fit, and cost roughly the same, I know which I'd prefer.

Post# 263388 , Reply# 8   1/15/2014 at 02:14 (2,834 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I think the switch would fit, so if you knew the internal parts you need I'd say an old sdtyle hi lo switch would work.

See if these pictures help you...

Having confirmed with a multimeter that the switch works, I bought a new PCB yesterday, so hopefully that will turn up tomorrow!

Thought I'd better get this thing stripped down then

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

One stripped Henry! The design hasn't really changed but the build quality has! There's burrs of plastic on the cut edges, random rubber squirted in the front of the motor plate and carbon dust everywhere. Dont remember my 1995 Henry having that much of a messin there!

From Henry HVR200A

From Henry HVR200A

From Henry HVR200A

From Henry HVR200A

From Henry HVR200A

From Henry HVR200A

Everything was washed, and the new plastic water beading returned with gusto, so nice to see it wasn't too bad.

All dried now, will try and start re-assembly today. Can't get too far until the PCB arrives though

From Henry HVR200A


Post# 263415 , Reply# 9   1/15/2014 at 08:47 (2,833 days old) by ultraperformer (Derbyshire, UK, Europe)        

ultraperformer's profile picture
Can't believe that much dust and fluff accumulate under the metal sole plate on the floor head, I'm tempted to strip some of my floor heads down to see if they are the same. I'm sure the Henry will look good once you've finished!

Post# 263464 , Reply# 10   1/15/2014 at 15:08 (2,833 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

TBH I've seen worse! Seems to be a trait of this style floortool. Had some Vax 121 ones apart that were so packed the metal soleplate had to be prised off!

This one however is very clean now yes? (Borat voice?)

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

Missed a bit

From Heney HVR200A

Found a new hepaflo, so donated it. Won't be selling it with a box of new bags I've decided.

From Heney HVR200A

Gave the filter a good vac off with my other Numatic

And set it down on the wall 'o' shite ontop of my yellow base

From Heney HVR200A

Put the cord rewind back together

From Heney HVR200A

Ratings plate shot for the motor nerds!

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

There were blobs of rubber like this all over it, and the bumpers were starting to peel away at the edges too

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

That's as far as I got, as I'll need the new PCB to finish the job, which hopefully might be here tomorrow.





Post# 263469 , Reply# 11   1/15/2014 at 15:31 (2,833 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

Do you have a Steam Cleaner by any chance to clean your vacuums with?

Post# 263470 , Reply# 12   1/15/2014 at 15:33 (2,833 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I do have a steam cleaner, but don't use it on the vacs. It's not that great, all I'd end up doing is chasing dirt around, it is a PITA to set up and I'd burn myself alot!

Quicker under the hot shower with a selection of brushes and a nice strong mix of G-101!


Post# 263548 , Reply# 13   1/16/2014 at 03:55 (2,832 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

The PCB arrived! Is a red 4 post one, but the design may have changed since mine was built of course. Hopefully these ones are a bit more robust!

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

Sorry, 'Service Item'? So all the dead machines just need servicing?

From Heney HVR200A

This is handy, was worried that I couldnt remember where the wires go. Hope it helps anyone else wanting to fit the old style hi lo switch

From Heney HVR200A

Re-assembly can continue tonight then! Then I'll find out the switch is also broken or something equally annoying...


Post# 263570 , Reply# 14   1/16/2014 at 11:09 (2,832 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

That Henry looks fantastic! :D You do such a smashing job making them look new :) Well done

As the the Hi lo switch,  


Post# 263601 , Reply# 15   1/16/2014 at 16:39 (2,832 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        
And so Henry's second life begins

After work, I got the new PCB in

From Heney HVR200A

All wired up

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

It was slightly annoying having to fully reassemble it before testing, but had to be done really.

and.....





Yey! Saved for 15!

Gave his hat a celebratory polish and wax

From Heney HVR200A

Even George joined in the celebration

From Heney HVR200A

And the finished article

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

From Heney HVR200A

Already for sale! If I had the space I would keep him, but the money would be far better tucked away in our deposit fund! Besides, with the 'service item' failing, hopefully we will see lots more cheap henries!

Or not, as now you all know how to fix it.

Ah...


Post# 263607 , Reply# 16   1/16/2014 at 17:32 (2,832 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

Great job Sam! Henry looks great and very shiny!


Post# 263614 , Reply# 17   1/16/2014 at 18:14 (2,832 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

That's only from 2010 too & the PCB for the Eco Function has stopped working. '___'

Post# 263617 , Reply# 18   1/16/2014 at 18:44 (2,832 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Interesting. You don't show a pic of the old PCB that you removed?

I opened up my 2011 Autosave model, and it appears that the PCB it has -part 208428 has been superceded by the part you show - 208700, but these PCB's are different, in that the components on the old part sit in the actual airpath of the exhaust air, whereas on the new part, 208700, the main components are on the other side, out of the airflow path.

I'm wondering if the carbon dust from the motor exhaust gets over the components of the old type boards and causes them damage, and possible shorting out? just a thought?

 

This is the old type board - note that the wire connectors are on the back, so that the main parts of the board are facing into the exhaust air flow


Post# 263618 , Reply# 19   1/16/2014 at 18:51 (2,832 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Here is the back of the old type 208428 board:

 

 


Post# 263619 , Reply# 20   1/16/2014 at 18:55 (2,832 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

And now compare it to your new board, which shows the difference:


Post# 263663 , Reply# 21   1/17/2014 at 03:39 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Have a picture of the old board!

From Heney HVR200A

Was smothered in carbon dust if it helps!


Post# 263667 , Reply# 22   1/17/2014 at 05:51 (2,831 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture
I think that is right and if Numatic had noted that they acted very quickly on it.

Post# 263668 , Reply# 23   1/17/2014 at 06:29 (2,831 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
Very nice! As always

Post# 263673 , Reply# 24   1/17/2014 at 08:52 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Thanks for that pic Beko - your old Henry HVR200A was fitted with the original green autosave board, the 208100. It seems that newer models are also failing by looking on ebay, I saw one manufactured in 2012, which would have the red 208428 board that my 2011 Henry has in it.

This would suggest that either the main transistor/resistor is overheating and burning out due to impeded exhaust airflow, or carbon dust build up is damaging the components on the boards.

The fact that your "service kit" has the components - all except the main transistor/resistor - on the other side of the board - tells me that the carbon dust build up could well be shorting out the tiny circuits on the old board - because, as you know, carbon is a conductor of electricity.

A very bad design flaw indeed, and a potential ticking time bomb for thousands of HVR200A's with the old type of boards.

IT may pay us to remove the bases of the motor housing every so often to clean off the circuit board, which is found built into the edges of the exhaust porting, and its easily seen by removing the 7 screws from the motor unit (henry's head) and lifting the base upwards away from the head with the head remaining upside down.

It would also be useful to know at what point Numatic started fitting the service kit that Beko shows as standard.

I am sure that AlexHoovers94 will take his head to pieces to find out if his 2013 Henry with the removable face has the old 208428 board or the 208700 modified one


Post# 263677 , Reply# 25   1/17/2014 at 09:37 (2,831 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

I hope my Auntie's 2012 Eco Henry will not break! :O if it does, then it is either another Henry or a Dyson Cylinder (She doesnt like uprights)


Post# 263680 , Reply# 26   1/17/2014 at 10:40 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Or fix it for 15 pounds, or remove the hi lo completely.

As much as it sucks that its a flawed component, seems silly to write off 100 of vac for an easy fix...


Post# 263685 , Reply# 27   1/17/2014 at 11:41 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

I'll check my James and Bertie's PCB, they were both bought brand new in summer/autumn 2013. Watch this space.


Post# 263688 , Reply# 28   1/17/2014 at 12:35 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Sweet! Anyone putting this info together for prosperity?

Post# 263689 , Reply# 29   1/17/2014 at 12:35 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

Right, I just took both the Bertie and James apart. The James was bought brand new in July 2013, made in the 23rd week of 2013, has the old style PCB facing the motor. Although, the Bertie, bought brand new in November 2013, made in the 33rd week of 2013, has the new style PCB, facing away from the motor. So Numatic switched to the new style PCB sometime between 23rd week and the 33rd week of 2013. Alex's Henry should have the new style PCB.


Post# 263690 , Reply# 30   1/17/2014 at 12:38 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

Oh and by the way, the James has the green PCB and the Bertie has the red one Sam has shown.


Post# 263696 , Reply# 31   1/17/2014 at 13:53 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

So we know the dates to check dead ones against, to scope the chances of the PCB being an issue.

Post# 263697 , Reply# 32   1/17/2014 at 14:01 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

Yep. Although it's sometimes hard to tell in ebay listings.


Post# 263703 , Reply# 33   1/17/2014 at 14:13 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

That's odd that the James has the green one - whats its (the board's) code number? How many watts is James?

 

MIne - A yellow henry HVR200A was made week 20 of 2011 and has a red board facing towards the motor.  Code 208428

Beko's - A red henry HVR200A was made week 27 of 2010 and "had" the very old green board facing towards the motor. Code 208100.

 

BTW they are still selling the old green boards 208100 on Ebay and they seem to be selling in good numbers too!



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK on eBay

Post# 263704 , Reply# 34   1/17/2014 at 14:18 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

AFAIC this should have been a product recall or similar as so many Henrys will be affected. Numatic stand to lose a lot of consumer loyalty of this - as I didn't know about it until recently and I don't use my Henry that much, but other people think Henrys are reliable and long lasting - they may be, but the PCB's aren't.

I wonder how many Henry AutoSaves have been thrown on the scrap heap because they develop board failure - even though they have perfectly good motors?

I wonder if Numatic weren't trying to build in obsolescence into their vacs so that they would sell more of them?


Post# 263715 , Reply# 35   1/17/2014 at 15:11 (2,831 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

I hope not - that Numatic are making machines that fail early so they can sell more of them, they do come with a 2 year guarantee though however most people think they won't need it.

Post# 263720 , Reply# 36   1/17/2014 at 15:37 (2,831 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

"AFAIC this should have been a product recall or similar as so many Henrys will be affected. Numatic stand to lose a lot of consumer loyalty of this"

I have to say, that's quite a sweeping statement. I didn't see anything which suggested there was an "official" problem, only that there has been a design change which is being assumed was such to solve a problem.

Product recalls only ever happen when something has been found to be unsafe, rather than problematic. As has been established many times, a good deal of Numatic cleaners are purchased for commercial use. The fact that one breaks down will be, in many cases, par for the course and likely considered by whoever is in charge of buying new machinery to be the fault of the cleaning personnel not taking the right care, rather than a problem with the vacuum cleaner.


Post# 263722 , Reply# 37   1/17/2014 at 15:49 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

When I worked at Welcome Break - there were quite a few Henrys that had broken down at our site, and most weren't that old. They ended up buying Karchers instead - so an example of lost trade here for a start off.

I know they have now modified new models, but its taken a while, and what about all the annoyed customers whose Autosave Henrys have failed within a short time - those who threw the receipt away and couldn't claim - or be bothered to claim under the guarantee?

It disappointed me that Numatic has been guilty of putting substandard PCB's in their machines. Its introducing spanners into the works of what was once a very simple one speed, reliable vac, which had very little to fail.


Post# 263724 , Reply# 38   1/17/2014 at 16:00 (2,831 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I agree the autosave is more to go wrong. However, a receipt is not required in law, only proof of purchase. If a consumer chooses not to claim for a repair for whatever the reason, that is up to them.

Post# 263729 , Reply# 39   1/17/2014 at 16:21 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I wonder if we will see more of this though. Numatic, once the cockroach of the vacuum world (will survive even a nuclear apocolypse!, think Nissan Micra for the UK guys!)

Maybe in 10 years Numatic will have gone down in people's opinions too much. When did the PCB first come in? (Not au fait with modern numatics I'm afraid). Let's say 2004. 2004-theoretically mid 2013, that's alot of ticking time bombs out there. Most vacs in shops now I see are the hi/lo ones, switched to hi obviously!

Even for us it may not be great. Hoover enough off ebay dead to fix, then the market gets flooded and the price goes down.

I've got Henry advertised in various places for 75 ono, will be interesting to see what I actually sell it for, and what the value of a 4 year old one is. Bet it's less than some of the old ones go for (single rocker on back etc)


Post# 263731 , Reply# 40   1/17/2014 at 16:32 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I think you are right about the twin speed models coming out in 2004.

 

However, it may just be the models with autosave that have the problem boards, as I haven't heard of any problems with the older type of twin speed models - not to say that there haven't been any. This seems to be a new problem only just coming to light on EBay, and Autosave models started in 2009/2010 I think? so they are now just starting to get old enough to start failing in larger numbers.

 

I saw your henry on Gumtree - I went looking for it:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK



This post was last edited 01/17/2014 at 17:06
Post# 263732 , Reply# 41   1/17/2014 at 16:37 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Is a test the waters price. In reality I'll take 60, but if someone wants to hand me 85 then I'm not going to stop them! Is a more realistic 75 bin with a make offer button though on ebay, and I'm floating it round the forums at 60 plus post.

If I've had no responses to the ads by the middle of next week I'll bang them down to 65 and just wait but hey, we can all try our luck!



Post# 263733 , Reply# 42   1/17/2014 at 16:41 (2,831 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

As madabouthoovers says, it is the ones which have autosave which seem to go belly-up. These are the ones which power up on a low setting, meaning that the board is regularly in use. The original hi/lo cleaners were manually locked in one position or the other, I expect typically the hi position, therefore the circuit boards were by-passed. Do you recall how many Hoover Turbopower 2-speed cleaners would always work only at one speed across both switch positions? This is because although most consumers would run the cleaner at full power, the switch was easily pressed into the "1" position, particulary if the cleaner was carried around by the main handle and not the carry handle. When the cleaner was plugged in, off it went at low speed, that was of course until the diode burned out and it ran at full power.

I agree that 2004 was the launch of the hi/lo switch. It was originally found on the back of the cleaner as there was a foot switch on top to operate the power. When the foot switch went, both controls were then mounted on the top of the machine.


Post# 263734 , Reply# 43   1/17/2014 at 16:44 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

I think it's a shame that Numatic's reliability record is being damaged by a something so little as a PCB. I really do think it'll cause Numatic problems in the long run, which is a real shame. All those machines made between 2009ish and mid-2013 are prone to failure in a few years, which is not good.


Post# 263736 , Reply# 44   1/17/2014 at 16:46 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The one big thing with your Gumtree ad is that it contains a video which is headed "Dead Henry with new PCB". That's a big put off, naming it "Dead Henry", as it makes people think its had so much use that the board burnt out. If I was you, I'd remove that video as it could be harming any potential sales, as it also makes it look like the little red light on the Hi switch doesn't work too.

 

Best of luck otherwise with the sale!


Post# 263740 , Reply# 45   1/17/2014 at 16:49 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

There is a handy table here showing various different dates and models of Numatics, and it confirms that 2004 was the time the twin speeds were launched.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK

Post# 263741 , Reply# 46   1/17/2014 at 16:49 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Good point, ad amended.

Imagine the 2 people who viewed probably wouldnt have bought it anyway!


Post# 263743 , Reply# 47   1/17/2014 at 16:49 (2,831 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Not until I know how many cleaners are affected and what people are saying about it would I be able to disagree or agree with whether or not it will affect Numatic's reputation.

Beko have spent much time and money recalling fridge-freezers and tumble-dryers which were catching fire, as have Bosch and Hotpoint with dishwashers, for the same reason. And they're doing alright still.


Post# 263748 , Reply# 48   1/17/2014 at 16:57 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I did?

True, and whilst I hope it, in reality wont really hurt numatic, if they fail by their hundreds/thousands around the WORLD now (Their making more of the international nowadays!) surely someone would notice the drop in sales?


Post# 263749 , Reply# 49   1/17/2014 at 17:05 (2,831 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

IF that happened, some people may stop buying the cleaners, but like I said, it would depend on the % of cleaners which go faulty against how many were actually sold. The footswitch introduced in 2003 was very problematic and Numatic ditched the design within three years. But never once did I hear anyone talking to me about Numatic cleaners and remembering the dodgy foot switches.

We have three choices here: carry on speculating, or contact Numatic and ask them if there is a problem, or sit it out and wait to see what happens.


Post# 263750 , Reply# 50   1/17/2014 at 17:09 (2,831 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

The hi-lo switches have no problem - the Henry we have at home which has the hi-lo feature is from 2006 & it is still perfectly fine!

Post# 263751 , Reply# 51   1/17/2014 at 17:13 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

It would be interesting to know the real reason HOW the boards are failing though?

If its because the airflow gets blocked by a full bag or clogged hose, and the board components subsequently overheat?

This overheating would only happen when used on LOW power setting anyway as the board has to step down the power to the motor and this has to be dissipated by heat - which needs a good airflow to remove, or failure could occur.

 

Its an interesting subject though, as Henrys are usually so reliable that threads like this are rare, and naturally, as collectors, we are interested in any inherent design flaws in various models.

These threads also help owners of broken down Henrys who google Henry HVR200A in the hope that they might find info about whats wrong with their Henry


Post# 263752 , Reply# 52   1/17/2014 at 17:13 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

Benny, we could try contacting Numatic I suppose


Post# 263754 , Reply# 53   1/17/2014 at 17:18 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        
we could try contacting Numatic I suppose

....And what do you think they would tell you?

I wouldn't think they are going to admit that there is a problem with their top seller - that would be bad for business!


Post# 263755 , Reply# 54   1/17/2014 at 17:19 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

I suppose you're right there Steve!


Post# 263756 , Reply# 55   1/17/2014 at 17:23 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I think we are over analysing it but hey, its what we do!

I have no idea how hard a life my henry has had. I suspect light domestic. I imagine Henrys in our hands will have a lot less use, and will inherently last longer.

I suppose, what usage would shred carbons quicker, as that seems to be a root cause.


Post# 263757 , Reply# 56   1/17/2014 at 17:25 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

Steve, RE: reply #51.

 

I think what causes the PCB to fail is carbon dust, it's conductive so if it gets on the PCB it could easily mess it up.


Post# 263758 , Reply# 57   1/17/2014 at 17:32 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Joe, I said that in reply #18 I thought a possible cause could be carbon dust shorting out the board. But I cant be sure - its only a speculation.

Its a pity Beko doesn't have a PhD in electronics or he could have diagnosed the board failure.

I don't want to use my Henry now in case the board burns out - unless I know the method by which the board failure occurs


Post# 263760 , Reply# 58   1/17/2014 at 17:39 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

In Beko's pic below, what is the name of the component with the ?? against it - this part seems to be the cause of heat staining on the board above it. Could it be this component that is what is burning out?


Post# 263761 , Reply# 59   1/17/2014 at 17:42 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Ha I don't have a pHd in anything!

My stepdad poked it witha multimeter and confirmed it was dead. Sadly, and I've jsut realised he hasn't poked the new board...

However, he did recall a yarn to me. He works in electronics, has done since the 70's. Apparently, once, some US manufacturer made a power supply for a computer. Worked well abroad, they started selling them here. He had a broken one in for repair, and found that a certain component was only rated to X value. X value was fine in the US, but too low for the UK, which has Y value. 80% of the time, the product will work well, but if the load increases above X value, it breaks and kills the product. A change was made and it was all fixed etc.

Maybe, since these machines now go all over the world, something similar is happening here. Some component on that board cant take the heat/hi-lo switching cycles/constant high power. Of course one would need to browse foreign ebay to see what the failure rate is, but I bet alot of the abroad use is from companies who buy fleets of them.Enough of the fleet dies in a silly amount of time and bam - dropped from the books due to unreliability. So we may never know, as I doubt they go to ebay!

The switch is very simple, and mine was spotless inside. When the switch is flicked, it contacts thecontacts, which send the signal to change power to the pcb. (incase anyone thought it might be the switch)

Happy to post my dead board to someone more knowlegable if wanted! I'm getting quite interested in this!


Post# 263762 , Reply# 60   1/17/2014 at 17:45 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

On that chip, the model id is only very different between the boards. Both made by the same company too.

That chip is my primary concern tbh. On my S5, the thermal fuse is very similar to that, just bigger. That had blown on the solder joints. But the whole module was replaceable (at eye watering cost from miele I assume!) as the chip was supposed to die first (after considerable red light of doom)

Same could be happening here either inadvertantly, or as a failsafe which is proving unreliable, hence the service item note on the new boards bag!

Manchestervacs, are you reading this? Any insight from a professional point of view? Know anyone who gets alot of henries in? Any trends?


Post# 263763 , Reply# 61   1/17/2014 at 17:46 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

I wouldn't worry about it, fitting a new PCB is cheap and easy.

 

I'm not too sure what that is, but whats funny is, in the Bertie, the PCB if facing away from the motor, but that piece seems to be on the other side facing the motor? I found it odd. I'll get some photos up tomorrow


Post# 263764 , Reply# 62   1/17/2014 at 17:52 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I agree, as a general issue for us especially, I'd rate it no more tricky than getting a motor out of a 1334! 'Service Item', get some in alongside your belts and bags for the rest of the fleet!

If you skipped the washing, drying, posing for photo's etc you'll be done in 15 minutes! All screws out, lift off the hat and take cord rewind out, lift the next bit up enough to slide the pcb out, swap the wires over and slide it back in. Re-assemble, job done.


Post# 263765 , Reply# 63   1/17/2014 at 18:00 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

That part is still on the side facing the motor as it needs to be in the path of the cooling air from the exhaust duct, which suggests it gets hot in use and even after the board was modified, it remains in the airflow.

It looks like a large transistor - a kind of switching relay.

 

If the henry has a thermal cutout, this is likely to be built onto or into the motor housing, which I haven't yet had a good gander at. I only opened up my Henry to see what type of board it had in it.


Post# 263766 , Reply# 64   1/17/2014 at 18:02 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

That would make sense.

 

Like I said, I'll have a proper look at it tomorrow and I'll take some pics.


Post# 263767 , Reply# 65   1/17/2014 at 18:05 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Beko - with an electric screwdriver - turn the head over and remove all 7 screws, then lift up. The top comes off and reveals the board slotted in the ducting. I looked at it last night and its possible to change it in less than 2 minutes.

The big problem is that Joe Public wont know this and assume the motor has gone tits up when henry "just stops". Hence they will throw it out or sell it  on ebay without realising that they could get a "service item" for £20 or so to fix their Henry.


Post# 263768 , Reply# 66   1/17/2014 at 18:16 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

That's very true Steve. It's a shame people don't get things repaired anymore. *sigh* Undecided


Post# 263769 , Reply# 67   1/17/2014 at 18:17 (2,831 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Very true! Y electric screwdriver was in the house, and I was in the garage... You see my dilemma

Post# 263770 , Reply# 68   1/17/2014 at 18:19 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

When I took my James and Bertie apart for the first time, the screws are very very stiff! An electric screwdriver would have been handy.


Post# 263771 , Reply# 69   1/17/2014 at 18:20 (2,831 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture

Sam, I get what you mean, I sometimes have situations like that, haha.


Post# 263772 , Reply# 70   1/17/2014 at 18:27 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Looking up transistor on Wiki, it seems that the component marked with ?? is indeed a power switching transistor. It has three legs. when a small voltage is applied to the centre leg, it allows a certain current to flow through the other legs. So it effectively controls the resistance of the motor circuit between the Hi and Lo states. When in Lo, the input voltage to the centre leg changes the resistance of the circuit to increase it - and this lowers the current flow to the motor. The transistor then gets hot as its offering higher resistance to the current flow - hence the transistor is fixed to a heat sink, and this is in the airflow.


Post# 263775 , Reply# 71   1/17/2014 at 19:33 (2,831 days old) by moojuiceuk (Southampton, England)        

moojuiceuk's profile picture
I wouldn't be surprised if that big black 3 legged component isn't actually a triac. The design may well be chopping the AC waveform to reduce power to the motor as a basic high/low speed controller. They're often used in dimmer light switches and for switching heating elements (I work for a heating company and see Triac's in more products these days).

I've got an older pre Autosave Henry here with the red footswitch and a green side hi-lo switch. If these also had a similar board inside I'd have a look to see if the AC supply is being chopped like I suspect.


Post# 263776 , Reply# 72   1/17/2014 at 19:55 (2,831 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Yours is the old type, 206606 -  2 terminal board, and will look like this:


Post# 263833 , Reply# 73   1/18/2014 at 03:21 (2,830 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

If it helps

Post# 263894 , Reply# 74   1/18/2014 at 13:13 (2,830 days old) by moojuiceuk (Southampton, England)        

moojuiceuk's profile picture
Yep, just as I thought. It's a Triac, 12Amp rated.

www.st.com/web/en/resource/techni...

The circuit board is like a dimmer switch, fixed to a lower setting, chopping the AC waveform to reduce power to the motor. It's either getting too hot (no heatsinking, poor airflow) or like others have suggested, the carbon dust has snookered it.

If it's just that component that's failed and it hasn't killed anything else on the board, the Triac's are sold for about 1.29 + VAT from RS Components, part number 687-0947. If something else on the board has failed too, you might as well shell out the 15 on a re-designed PCB or just bypass the ruddy switch altogether :)


Post# 263896 , Reply# 75   1/18/2014 at 13:38 (2,830 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Well then if you want to keep your Eco Henry, I suggest buying a whole bunch of boards!

I was actually going to buy the exact Henry with the exact problem like Sam's one approx 2 months ago which went for £32 I think?


Post# 263952 , Reply# 76   1/18/2014 at 16:31 (2,830 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Thanks to MooJuice for his info - hopefully people will be able to find this thread in the future if their Henry suddenly "dies".

 

I think that with a heavy enough build up of carbon dust all over that circuit board, its bound to have caused a short somewhere, which was why Numatic had the majority of the circuitry turned round to the other side of the board, so that only the Triac faced the carbon dust flow.

Incidentally, there is a carbon filter wrapped round the motor, so maybe washing this out once a year might help reduce the instance of board failure?


Post# 263978 , Reply# 77   1/18/2014 at 18:24 (2,830 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

Steve are you on Facebook?

Post# 263981 , Reply# 78   1/18/2014 at 18:30 (2,830 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Hilo - no afraid not. Don't use facebook, nor Skype. I'm too old to understand all this new-fangled technology used by your age group lol.


Post# 263982 , Reply# 79   1/18/2014 at 18:36 (2,830 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

My Dads the same age, but he "apparently" uses it for the sale pages. He's such a Liar. Shame, are you on Youtube?

Post# 263989 , Reply# 80   1/18/2014 at 18:53 (2,830 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        
facebook

My cleaning lady recently uploaded me to facebook. I have four friends in my list. I like it that way. I am finding the internet to be both a treasure trove and a Pandora's box, in similar measures. I laugh at what I read on facebook. 20 years ago people were often 'ex directory' (if you are young and don't know that term, look it up on this wonderful internet) and yet today people cannot wait to spread their business around.

There was a woman who lived on the corner of the street where my parents house was. She was the equivalent of what we know today as the BBC News 24 channel. She is also long dead, yet I cannot help wonder what she would have made of the facebook.


Post# 264214 , Reply# 81   1/20/2014 at 07:43 (2,828 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Well, after lots of stupid "wud u take 30 tnite m8" type messages, I accepted a 60 offer for Henry just now!

Waiting for payment, then will box Henry up later and say goodbye!


Post# 288833 , Reply# 82   7/15/2014 at 11:04 (2,652 days old) by garry ()        

Hi I have a henry and have recently changed for the red one,

Quick question

Before I changed pcb could get no power,just a light on the high low rocker

Now I've changed pcb henry lives again yay !

But no hi low function just one speed LOW

i wired it from wiring diagram

I've told the seller of the pcb but he says it must be the high low rocker switch

I'm just wondering did he send me the wrong wiring diagram for the light up rocker switch?



Post# 289545 , Reply# 83   7/20/2014 at 06:35 (2,647 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I think there are 2 PCBs in existence, did you get the 2 connector one or the 4 one?

I've got 2 more in the shed awaiting payday to order 2 PCBs, it gets addictive!


Post# 290616 , Reply# 84   7/27/2014 at 18:06 (2,640 days old) by Mieles5380Leo (Virginia)        
Off topic,

mieles5380leo's profile picture
What kind of Miele s5 do you have? I'd be delighted to know.

Post# 290673 , Reply# 85   7/28/2014 at 04:08 (2,639 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well I did have a Miele S5211 Red Pearl but sold it off a few months ago.

I now have a Miele S8340 Ecoline


Post# 290691 , Reply# 86   7/28/2014 at 10:55 (2,639 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I have a Miele S5210, which is still doing sterling service as a daily. Except it doesnt get used much at the moment, as theres always another vacuum to use! Infact the last time I looked it was covered in dust in the hallway...

Post# 290777 , Reply# 87   7/28/2014 at 19:22 (2,639 days old) by Mieles5380Leo (Virginia)        
Pics?!

mieles5380leo's profile picture
I'd love to see pictures of them. I'm so sorry, I'm carried away with Miele's. :);)

Post# 291492 , Reply# 88   8/1/2014 at 16:49 (2,635 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Here you go Leo, my mums S4, my S5 and an s3 I bought of eBay cheaply, refurbished and sold shortly after this picture was taken! Just received a service box each for mums and mine today actually!

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 314851 , Reply# 89   2/7/2015 at 15:56 (2,445 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Reply #24 and reply #29

I dont know when Numatic changed the PCB :/
Will a 2012 Henry break? It has been in regular use from November 2012 till present if it helps. I was told it wont, but reading this thread I am a little confused on when the PCB's were modified


Post# 314859 , Reply# 90   2/7/2015 at 18:36 (2,445 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Bump

Post# 314898 , Reply# 91   2/8/2015 at 08:16 (2,444 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

BUMP

Post# 314955 , Reply# 92   2/8/2015 at 19:36 (2,444 days old) by seanc (Cambridge, United Kingdom)        

Interesting read.
My Henry Autosave was dead when I got it a few years ago, only the high/low would show a red light if pushed but the motor wouldn't run.

Found it had a worn out brush, replaced it and off it went, but only ever on high. Works fine, sounds like the triac is shorted in my case, so it's able to run.


Post# 329681 , Reply# 93   7/20/2015 at 05:55 (2,282 days old) by jupiterferris ()        

Chaps,

What is the best way to bypass the PCB?

I have my dead Henry in bits - worked fine 2 days ago - today the light came on the hi-lo switch when Henry was powered up, but no motor. After sucking my teeth a few seconds and pressing the switch a couple of times, and cycling the power, now all lights are off. Switches test fine with meter, and there is power into the Henry from the plug.

So it looks like PCB. I'm happy to remove it, I only ever run it on high anyway.

I have a brown/blue/black/white into the red PCB. Do I join those, leave hi/lo switch alone, or remove from PCB and connect into hi/lo etc...

Any pointers appreciated.

Thanks

JF


Post# 329686 , Reply# 94   7/20/2015 at 07:17 (2,282 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

You want both white motor cables to one side of the main on off switch, then the blue and brown wires from the cord unit to the other side. You may have to have henry apart to the motor to check which cables are which then either strip out the pcb and wires, leave the switch in to stop stuff falling in the hole and hopefully you will win!

Post# 329707 , Reply# 95   7/20/2015 at 13:34 (2,282 days old) by jupiterferris ()        

All working! So the red PCB is removed completely and all wires are off the hi/lo... the motor is wired direct to the on/off and we're good as new. Well, almost. But free! :-)

Thanks!


Post# 329714 , Reply# 96   7/20/2015 at 14:06 (2,282 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Nice job! Just curious, how old is your Henry? My Auntie'sHenry has the red PCB and her Henry is 2 and a half years old, still works perfectly fine

Post# 329770 , Reply# 97   7/21/2015 at 06:54 (2,281 days old) by JupiterFerris ()        

Well I never delete an email, so I can tell you I bought it from Argos in October 2011. Coming up to 4 years old then.

I have a few dogs, 2 of which are long haired and moult like a @#!, and this Henry has had some heavy use, I would say almost daily...


Post# 329772 , Reply# 98   7/21/2015 at 07:37 (2,281 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Awesome!Very handy :)

Post# 329780 , Reply# 99   7/21/2015 at 12:17 (2,281 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

Nice outcome, glad you got it fixed!

Its the first check i do on a 'just died on me mate' cheap henry nowadays. Never been wrong yet, but if they properly blow they smell like fire so its slightly blatent



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