Thread Number: 18440
Royal Metal Vacuums - New, Used, or Decades Old Used?
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Post# 202724   10/4/2012 at 10:45 (2,733 days old) by Stepper ()        

Hello!
I am a new member here and this is my very first post.
I have to admit that when I first stumbled onto this site I was a bit humored by the thought that there is a website for people who collect -of all things- vacuum cleaners! But now that I have browsed through the site, visited a few dealers, watched a few videos and read a ton of reviews, I am suddenly starting to see what the hub-bub is all about.

Anyway, after going through several low end vacuums in last few years I've decided that I was going to finally invest in a bit more quality. I originally wanted a Dyson. But after a bit of research I started looking at the Hoover Platinum Bagged Upright. Then, after a bit more research I decided on an Oreck Magnesium. And finally, after seeing a Royal for the first time at the dealer, I've decided on a Royal all metal unit.

Now the question is, should I buy new, used, or even decades old used.

As you guys probably already know, a brand new Royal RY8300 can run anywhere from $400-700. But a good condition used model can be from $250-300. A decades old model on the other hand can be had for less than $100.00!

Would it be worth it to just get a vintage model and restore it?
Are belts, rollers, shakeout bags and disposable bags interchangeable with newer models?
Also, does anybody know if Royals used aluminum or stainless steel for the housing and if they polish up easily?

Thanks for any replies.
Jason







Post# 202725 , Reply# 1   10/4/2012 at 13:06 (2,733 days old) by mieles7 (DFW, TX)        

mieles7's profile picture
Royals are very easy to polish. On my 10 amp model 4000 I was able to make the vacuum shine like a mirror just with some Mothers polish and a rag. There are 2 styles of bags for the metal total uprights.
A bags were used up until 1990, when royal switched to B bags. A bags are no longer produced by royal, but are interchangeable with Eureka F&G bags.
B bags are the current style of bags royal uses on their metal vacuums.
If I were you, I would go with a 1990s Royal. They are better made then the current everlast, ans were built in America.


Post# 202727 , Reply# 2   10/4/2012 at 13:53 (2,733 days old) by Stepper ()        

Thanks for the reply Ian.
Forgive my ignorance but when you say "A" bags and "B" bags you mean the disposable bags right? Or do you mean the outer bag? I found a nice looking Royal 801 but it loos like the outer bag could use a little help. Wondering if I can just get a modern outer bag and slap it on.

-a little off topic but I wonder if it's possible to retrofit a Sanitaire Dust Cup/Bag assembly onto a Royal -


Post# 202739 , Reply# 3   10/4/2012 at 16:36 (2,733 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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Jason,

Yes, these are disposable bags.

The "A" style bags were used on all pre-1990 models whereas the "B" style bags were used on 1990 and later models. The "A" style bags were bottom-fill, and the "B" style bags are top-fill type.

~Ben


Post# 202740 , Reply# 4   10/4/2012 at 16:57 (2,733 days old) by mieles7 (DFW, TX)        

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This model appears to be in good condition. I believe that this would be a B bag model.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mieles7's LINK on eBay


Post# 202753 , Reply# 5   10/4/2012 at 20:10 (2,733 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA)        

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I agree with the suggestion to buy a used 900 series from the 1990's with the adjust-O-rite step-on height adjuster.
They were made in the US, very good quality and should last forever.


Post# 202811 , Reply# 6   10/5/2012 at 17:25 (2,732 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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Really any royal from the 1990's or older.My old "Mystery" Royal (I call it that because it has no model sticker,But it's about the same as a model 880) Has been going strong,Yet quiet and efficent since i brought it.To consider this thing was build in the 70's/80's and still can out-perform today's high-wattage screamers.

-Alex.


Post# 202818 , Reply# 7   10/5/2012 at 20:49 (2,732 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

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The Royal Uprights are great vacuums.  They are simple, straightforward, and easy to use.  As others have said, an American made model from the 1990s would be an excellent choice.  The Type B bag also comes in three different filtration levels, including a "HEPA type".  Another selling point for me is the 40 foot cord. 


Post# 202820 , Reply# 8   10/5/2012 at 20:59 (2,732 days old) by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        
Jason, stick with 1990-1996 Royal Metal Uprights....

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For starters, starting in the year 1990, they introduced a new 10-blade metal fan that moves more air than the 6-blade fan does. I guess you could change the fan, but I don't know for certain, & it would require a trip to a repair shop to change it. In addition, the late 1980's Royals saw the start of the brushroll with plastic stiffeners around the brush, which increase the beating action. I have seen an Ebay listing tonight showing an older Royal with this brushroll (versus the older style), but you'll have to shell out more money for it in addition to buying the vacuum.

However, the main reason I say from 1990 to 1996 is they upped the amps to 7 amps, which is the highest available at that time & will provide the same airflow & suction the new 10-amp Screamer Royals that are Chinese-made have now. Also, around 1995 or 1996 (Ben Edge will know FOR SURE what year it was) they changed to a drop-in motor. Prior to this, they used motors that have an oiling port for the rear bearing at the back....if you are looking on Ebay, you will notice a red cap by the rear wheels, this is the cap for the oiling port. You will need to oil the motor once a year with some 10W-30 motor oil....just any generic motor oil will do, no fancy brand needed. I am not certain of the reliability of the drop-in motor, but if I was planning this vacuum to last a long time, I would rather stick with the older motor with a proven track record, if it was me buying this vacuum.

As far as the bagging system goes, that's also another reason to stick to 1990's Royals. That's when they changed to the Style B top-fill bag system. You will see 2 styles of bag available....a zippered bag that can ONLY be used with bags (most common), & on commercial models there is a shake-out bag system. This shake-out bag uses the same top-fill tube as the zippered outer bag, & is emptied by removing the bag from the machine, removing a slide clamp at the top, shaking vigorously, & then emptying into the trash. Since it uses the same tube as the zippered bag, it can be used with the Style B bags if desired. The shake-out bag is made of denim, vs normal fabric for the zippered bag, so it may also be a bit more durable, too, but it's not something I would worry about. There are a few different types of B bags available....standard, micro-filtration, Paper HEPA bags & white HEPA Cloth bags, like Kirby uses, and of course there are generic brands available. This would be a good reason to avoid the earlier zippered bag that uses the A style bags....if you go to use Eureka F&G bags, as that's all that is available now, they are only available in standard & micro-filtration, not the best if you have allergies.

In regards to the height adjustment....I know some people here have said to go with models with the Adjust-O-Rite step-on height adjuster, but I would be reluctant to do so myself. There are only 5 height adjustment settings on it. I have 2 Royal uprights myself, both of which have the Infinite Screw-Adjustment, & that's what I prefer as it allows you to adjust it precisely. If you have only 1 or 2 types of carpet in your home, you should be just fine....simply use the handle lock to put your Royal & roll it from room to room on the rear wheels. My only concern with the Adjust-O-Rite is whether you would be happy with how precise the height adjustment is, but you could always see if your local repair shop will let you take a new Royal home to try out & see if you like it first before buying a model with it.

As for the idea of buying an older model Royal & putting a new outer bag on it, that would be a bad idea. The zippered outer bag is VERY expensive to buy....I was thinking of changing it on my Royal Commercial 670CA, as it uses the shake-out bag & I thought for some reason the zippered bag was larger, I found out it's not larger, though, & a new zippered bag would have cost $125 to buy. If you were to buy an older Royal & put newer parts on it, the best way to go about it would be to find a vac shop that has old used parts in good shape, or find a couple of parts machines. As for the other parts....the belt is the same on ALL the Royals....they all use a Royal Style 8 belt, which is also the same as the Eureka AR canister belt or the Kirby upright belt. The Eureka & Royal belt should be easiest to find in a store, & the Royal belt in particular fits the Dirt Devil Jaguar canisters....they just don't mention on the package, for some reason, that it will also fit the Royal Metal Uprights, too. And if you look at a Royal & Kirby belt, the dimensions are EXACTLY the same & both are knurled....it's obvious they are both outsourced to the same belt company.

If you do follow through with buying a used vacuum, there are 3 items I would purchase immediately for it. 1. A new set of carbon brushes to have on hand....you don't know how hard it was used, & if it's REALLY old, like pre-1985, they could already need to be changed soon after purchase. 2. A new power switch....again, you don't know how much wear & tear the vacuum has, & power switches are a common failure item on vacuums; at least you will have a spare if needed. 3. A new brushroll....just to have on hand when the time for replacement comes around.

Below is a link to a Royal vacuum that shows the newer-style brushroll with the plastic stiffeners, but I am also posting it because it's also a prime example of what you want to AVOID BUYING. This one would just be too old to give a long serviceable life, & isn't worth the money they are asking for it. Also, Jason, if you like, I also have a Adobe PDF document from Royal which has the instructions for oiling the rear bearing....if you, or anybody else for that matter....would like it, simply email me at the email address in my profile.

Best of luck....Rob


CLICK HERE TO GO TO kirbylux77's LINK on eBay


Post# 202834 , Reply# 9   10/5/2012 at 23:10 (2,732 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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Jason, Alex, Rob,

Although Royal switched to the drop-in motor design in the spring of 1995, they continued to make the vacuums here in the U.S. through much of 2002.

All Royals with the 6 and 7 amp motors, 1992 and earlier, do use the same belt (part #1044260001); however, most all of the 5.4 and lower amperage Royals use a different belt (part #1043260001). 1992 and later models, use part #1672260001.

Brush roll availability is also different, so read this:

Also pay attention to the shape of the ends on your brush roll: if you have a model made before April 1992, it will have square ends on it. Models made after that date will have hex ends on the brush roll.

* 4.5 to 5.4 amp machines could be had with the #2059721000 single-row brush, the #2060221000 beater-bar brush, or the #2080221000 double-row brush (no stiffener). 1990-92 models will use the #2675221000 double-row brush (ball bearings/no stiffener). 1992 and later machines will use the #2655225000 double-rower (hex ends/ball bearings).

* 6.0 and 7.0 amp machines could be had with the #2088221000 double-row brush with stiffener. 1990-92 models will use the #2675227000 brush roll (ball bearings/stiffener). 1992 and later machines will use the #2673273000 double-rower/stiffener (hex ends/ball bearings).

* For 18" wide track uprights (models 618/620, 680/682/7800/7820 and 690/7900 series): pre-1990 models will use the #2061821000 brush roll, 1990-92 models will use the #2695227000 brush roll (ball bearings), and 1992-95 models will use the #2692225000 brush roll (ball bearings/hex ends). All pre-1992 models use the #1044260001 belt; 1992 and later, #1672260001.

~Ben


CLICK HERE TO GO TO KirbyClassicIII's LINK


Post# 202846 , Reply# 10   10/6/2012 at 07:23 (2,731 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

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I own this Royal that was manufactured in the USA in 1996.  It has a 10 amp drop-in motor with a 10 blade fan. 


Post# 202847 , Reply# 11   10/6/2012 at 07:27 (2,731 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

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I don't find it unusually loud.  However, if I remember correctly, the original brush roll was straight bristles.  (But my memory does fail me sometimes)  However, I installed a new brush roll with stiffeners.  The brush stiffeners really do a lot to propel this machine along!  It's a GREAT vacuum!


Post# 202867 , Reply# 12   10/6/2012 at 12:57 (2,731 days old) by STEPPER ()        

Thanks for all the great replies!!!
Looks like I need to be a bit more specific in my search for a used Royal.
Good news is I got my el'cheapo Bissel working again so my search isn't as urgent anymore.

Would you guys think it would be easier to maintain an old Kirby (Sanitronic Line or similar with the simple "stick" style handle) as compared to a 90's Royal?

There's a guy here locally selling a functioning Sanitronic.


Post# 202884 , Reply# 13   10/6/2012 at 14:20 (2,731 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
Bill (eurekastar)

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Your machine was built in May 1996.

~Ben


Post# 260326 , Reply# 14   12/21/2013 at 16:13 (2,290 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Tweaking Royal 4008

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I'd like to add my questions to this thread, because it's already full of useful info that's probably relevant to my questions.

I recently got a very nice model 880. Only qualms I had with it was the lack of brush stiffeners (not recommended for its low 3 amp motor), and the necessity to adjust the height with the hand wheel. Also, I wanted the quick release cord hook, but I could have added that.

Sold it on Ebay and bought a model 4008. It's got everything I wanted, including the toe-touch height adjuster, which has infinite adjustment. One thing it has, that's not working, is the roller speed sensor. I noticed in the Ebay images they had the roller on backward. When I received it the roller was in the correct orientation, but I can see where having it backward would interfere with that sensor. The pin coming out of the sensor moves in and out about 1/16", and there is no resistance across it and ground. That's a $20.00 part #2673274000. Not sure I want to bother paying to fix it, because it's pretty obvious when the roller is spinning.

Unfortunately, the brush stiffeners seem to set up a vibration in the front housing when they're in contact with the carpet. Vibration/ rattle does not go away when Rite-Hite cover and bottom plate are removed. Nor is the light cover or deodorizer chamber causing the rattle. Other than that, the machine is a keeper. It's not as loud as the 10 amp model 1030Z I have, but the buzz/ rattle makes it sound cheap. Not sure what I'd have to stiffen up to make it go away. The 1030Z doesn't have this issue, and it's an issue that will bug me forever.


Post# 260327 , Reply# 15   12/21/2013 at 16:16 (2,290 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Adding Images

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Serial Number and place of manufacture, which is very near where I work:

Post# 260329 , Reply# 16   12/21/2013 at 16:20 (2,290 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Adding Images

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It's been used a little carelessly as witnessed by the scratches and chipped Rite-Hite cover.

Post# 260330 , Reply# 17   12/21/2013 at 16:24 (2,290 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Adding Images

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I do LOVE the infinitely variable height adjust on it.

Post# 260402 , Reply# 18   12/22/2013 at 15:30 (2,289 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Repaired Roller Speed Sensor

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I had been checking resistance between the external "probe" and ground. Now that I have it opened up, I can see there would never be continuity. The probe is a core, around which is the winding.

Post# 260403 , Reply# 19   12/22/2013 at 15:35 (2,289 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Speed Sensor Wire Break

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The winding was broken at one of the leads on the green LED. A little micro surgery got it back in order.

On the one hand, that's over $20.00 worth of messing around to get it working this way. On the other hand, it saved me that $20.00, plus the job is done. I have no idea how long it would take to have that shipped in. I'm still waiting for a simple order I placed Sat 12/7/2013 from Vacland...


Post# 260409 , Reply# 20   12/22/2013 at 17:46 (2,289 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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John,

The stiffener-equipped double bristle roll makes that so-called "buzzing" sound on machines of this amperage, and that is actually normal and indicates no problems.

~Ben


Post# 260426 , Reply# 21   12/22/2013 at 22:01 (2,289 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Can't Live With The Noise

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Thanks Loads Ben,

I thought I'd narrowed it down to the thin casting resonating near the Rite-Hite port area. I'm in search of dampening pads found under your stainless steel sinks to reduce noise. I'll glue them in place inside the bell housing. Are you saying it's the brush inserts rattling in their channels? If so, I'll glue them in place! Already tried wrapping duct tape around the hex end caps to snug them up, but it didn't help. Either way, that noise is going away by hook or by crook. I'll keep you posted on what gets the job done.

Thanks Again,
John


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ornery's LINK


Post# 260438 , Reply# 22   12/22/2013 at 23:33 (2,289 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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John,

The sound I think you're referring to is found on these Royals:




(Royal 4000S)




(Royal 1030)

In both cases, that's just the revolving brush beating down on the carpet.

~Ben


Post# 260473 , Reply# 23   12/23/2013 at 04:18 (2,289 days old) by thermokid (Casper, Wyoming)        
Royal 4008

I have one of those and a Dark Blue model similar to the 4008.. Those are the two noisest contraptions I have ever seen in a Royal....

Post# 260483 , Reply# 24   12/23/2013 at 09:17 (2,288 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Not Just The Beater Action Sound

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Good Morning,

Thanks for taking the trouble to add those videos. I just made a couple of my own this morning. Won't be able to embed mine, but I'll link to it, in the next post. Unfortunately the sound does not convey the actual sound I'm struggling with. The brush stiffener does add a "thumping" sound, which I'm OK with. In the video it sounds like a router. The irritating "buzzing" isn't heard in the video. At least not at the volume I've been listening to it. Sounds like something loose. The Rite-Hite cover would be the most likely culprit, but that isn't it.

In other words, there's a secondary tinny ratting, that just has to go. At the moment, I'm gluing an old belt to the bottom of the bell housing. Hoping to affect the resonance of it. It's actually a very thin casting. No wonder they're so light!


Post# 260513 , Reply# 25   12/23/2013 at 14:10 (2,288 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Back To The Drawing Board

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Well, that was a waste of time. Had no effect on the noise, so I scraped it off before the glue cured. Guess I learned a little in the process. I can rebuild a roller in a couple minutes... with my eyes closed! Eliminated that as a possible cause. Really doubt gluing the roller brushes in will help.

I also find if I don't put the brushes too low, I can avoid the noise altogether. But, there are still times when a rug sucks in deeper, and it does the rattle for a split second or two. No pun intended, but it sucks. Whenever I hear it, I feel like something needs tightened up or adjusted.

I uploaded the video, only because I promised I would. Nothing you all haven't heard before...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ornery's LINK


Post# 260523 , Reply# 26   12/23/2013 at 16:39 (2,288 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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John,

Thank you. Like I had commented on the video, you could very well buy another Royal like the 880 that you've traded for this 4008.

~Ben


Post# 260538 , Reply# 27   12/23/2013 at 18:09 (2,288 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Can I Have It All... At Any Price?

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Hey Ben,

That was you? Should have known. I replied to that comment. Basically, I wouldn't be content with the 880. Wondering if an old Kirby model 560 would fill the bill? Do those even use disposable bags? And, if not a Kirby, what? It's a shame, this model in my hands is so close!

Well anyway, thanks again for the input.

John


Post# 260552 , Reply# 28   12/23/2013 at 20:12 (2,288 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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John,

No Kirby had officially used disposable bags until the Tradition, introduced in July 1979. Any disposable bag systems on Kirbys older than this will be aftermarket setups.

The best Kirby to own that has a disposable bag system would be the Heritage 1HD (1981-1984). However, the Generation 3 (1990-1993) was the first Kirby to use a self-propelled transmission called "Tech Drive" which reduces 90% of the effort required to push the vacuum (but don't use this feature when polishing hard flooring). For allergy containment, use the "Micron Magic" disposable bags... they work on all Kirby disposable bag systems going back to the Heritage II (you can also use the MM bags on the Heritage I if you swap out the top adapter for the one used on the Heritage II).

~Ben


Post# 260570 , Reply# 29   12/23/2013 at 21:34 (2,288 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
That Settles It

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Once again Ben, you are a fountain of high vacuum knowledge. A Kirby isn't going to suit this household. I ended the Royal auction. I'm keeping it for sure, and I'll keep experimenting. If that elusive 90's model comes along with all the bells & whistles, I'll buy it, then sell this one.

Thanks so much for sharing your wealth of information. It's helped me a LOT!

John


Post# 260583 , Reply# 30   12/23/2013 at 23:10 (2,288 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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John,

If you're interested in any late '80s/early '90s Royals, you would want one of the following, all of which have the "Au-Toe-Matic" height adjuster and top-of-the-line (TOL):
Model 992/993 (1988-1990) - dark blue trim, 6 amp motor, 6-blade impeller fan
Model 9000 (1988-1990) - burgundy/mauve trim, 6 amp motor, 6-blade impeller fan
Model 9005/9089 (1989-1990) - burgundy bag "Classic Edition 1989," 6 amp motor, 6-blade impeller fan
Model 994/995/996 (1990-1995) - like 992/993 but with 7 amp motor and 9-blade impeller fan
Model 9700 (1990-1995) - like 9000/9005/9089 but with 7 amp motor and 9-blade impeller fan

These will be somewhat loud (definitely louder than the 880 you once had), but not quite as loud as the 4008 you have already.

~Ben


Post# 260598 , Reply# 31   12/24/2013 at 01:05 (2,288 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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John (ornery),

Here is an eBay auction for a dark-blue Royal from 1988 (model 992 or 993) you might like: it has a toe-touch height adjuster and was top-of-the-line in its day.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROYAL-UPRIGHT-VA...

Warning: Seller says the front cover is missing, but I can clearly see one.

~Ben


Post# 260627 , Reply# 32   12/24/2013 at 07:34 (2,287 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Been Looking And Inquiring

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Ben,

I contacted Vacstar a couple times. They have more than one vacuum listed. The details for that particular one is: "Correct amps 6. Model. 992. Serial. 388a002143"

Based on your ROYAL METAL UPRIGHT PRODUCTION LIST, which is my Bible, that would have a 6 blade fan.

I contacted one member from here, last night, about selling his Model 886/F. Got a reply already. Replied, "Sorry I'm pretty fond of it and it does a great job."

Contacted another fellow this morning, who also happens to be a member here, about the same model. His handle has Kirby in it, so maybe he'll be willing to part with it. I keep finding these units doing a search on Bing, and they always seem to lead back to posts on this site. Big surprise, eh?

This is such a shame. The one I have, has it all. I can even tolerate the normal high decibels. I made that choice before I even purchased it, but I didn't bargain for the "rattling" noise. Still don't understand why I can't track it down. I'll redouble my efforts today.

Thanks once again for the well thought suggestions, and model details.


Post# 260631 , Reply# 33   12/24/2013 at 09:08 (2,287 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Tracking Down The Rattle

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One son is here for Christmas from Boston. Younger son usually sleeps in late, but got up relatively early this morning. As soon as I knew they were awake, I started screwing with the vacuum. Pulled the plate, nozzle plug, chamber and bag off. Tapped it all over listening for rattling. I can hear something inside the motor housing. Also, the handle latch wiggles quite a bit, and the rubber bumper surrounding the bell housing seems to vibrate significantly. It's only held by two rivets at the very ends.

Ran it against the carpet with the roller beating the carpet. No rattle. Added one piece at a time till it was all assembled... no rattle, except for the rubber bumper occasionally vibrating against the bell housing. The boys must think I'm crazy. I shut it off as soon as they came in the kitchen.

If it turns out to be that rubber, I'm going to kick myself. I thought sure I'd eliminated that already. I'm almost positive I did! But, at this point it seems rattle free. I also observed that with the bag off, the scream from the motor is intolerable. The bag muffles a LOT of the noise. So, as soon as the boys are done with breakfast, I'm going to have at it again. It would be awesome if this is over. Every minute it runs without rattling is a minute toward its having a permanent home here.


Post# 260641 , Reply# 34   12/24/2013 at 10:31 (2,287 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
May Be Base Plate After All

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It was rattling with base plate off, but more with it on. I ended up shaping the front curve around the lip on the front of the bell housing. Literally formed it to the lip. That not only insures the plate is tight, but it captures the flimsy center of the housing to keep it from resonating. So far so good. Hoping it won't work loose. If it does, I may glue in a rubber or cork gasket. That's probably the better way to go anyway.

Post# 260646 , Reply# 35   12/24/2013 at 11:49 (2,287 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Base Plate Modification

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Found a base plate on Amazon, that looks like it has felt on the bottom. Looks like mine is going to have felt too!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO ornery's LINK


Post# 260654 , Reply# 36   12/24/2013 at 14:46 (2,287 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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John,

Would you still be interested in the 992 that vacstars has?

~Ben


Post# 260662 , Reply# 37   12/24/2013 at 16:12 (2,287 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Tweaked 4008

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Hey Ben,

I took that one off my list when I contacted them on the 13th. 6 blade fan was the deal breaker. I guess if I stumbled onto an 1990 or later 886 with the 9 blade fan, 6 or 7 amp motor, toe height adjust (infinitely variable would be awesome), Adjust-O-Rite nozzle plug, quick release hook and two conductor cord, I'd probably buy it.

As it is, the 4008 is 95% dialed in. Only once every few minutes does it buzz or rattle for an instant. I can live with that if it stays this way. Tightly wrapping the base plate and adding the felt has worked wonders.

Thank you so much for the valuable input and past research. I'm sure it's helped many more people than me, and I REALLY appreciate it.

Have A Merry Christmas!

John


Post# 260664 , Reply# 38   12/24/2013 at 16:19 (2,287 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
John,

Merry Christmas to you, too!

You'd be looking for an 886F... it was dark blue in color like the 885, 992/993, 994-996, 2025/2028 and 2075/2078.

~Ben


Post# 260693 , Reply# 39   12/24/2013 at 23:28 (2,287 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Wrap It Up!

ornery's profile picture
Awesome, I'll take it! It will look great under the tree. I'll email you my address.

Actually, I think we over extended a little this year, so I should refrain... but, if it were available, I'd probably grab it anyway!



Post# 260694 , Reply# 40   12/24/2013 at 23:52 (2,287 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
John,

Merry Christmas to you, too. However, I am just a fanatic of vacuums like this.

As much as I would like to have your 4008, but it is a post-1995 model and I prefer pre-1995 models like the two that I've got (both branded for Stark's Vacuum Cleaners here in Portland, OR).

Thus... good luck in finding an 886F like the one in the picture I'd uploaded (and that was a former eBay auction). I don't own that vacuum, if you are concerned.

~Ben


Post# 266376 , Reply# 41   2/6/2014 at 00:40 (2,244 days old) by dmac ()        
Learning about Royal Metal Uprights

Hello Ben and John. I'm new to vacuumland and this is my first post!

Have been reading your old threads about Royals and have enjoyed learning. I purchased my first Royal about a month ago (model 992) and am having issues with the Au-toe-matic adjuster staying at the set position. Also do not like the A style bag.

Can one of you please send me the ROYAL METAL UPRIGHT PRODUCTION LIST? I am shopping for another used Royal and want to make sure I get all the features that I want (made in USA, 6A or greater, B style, Adjust-Rite, oil motor, 9 or 10 blade fan, etc...).
Thanks
David


Post# 266493 , Reply# 42   2/6/2014 at 19:08 (2,243 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Quest For Perfection

ornery's profile picture
The part you need for the height adjust would probably be the Adjuster Release (1133715000) for $6.52 at ereplacementparts.com. Grab a $.50 Rod spring (1003009000) while you're at it.

Nothing wrong with the "A" style bags. They're plentiful in the F&G version. Can be had in many generic brands and filtrations, at a better price than the "B" Style.

I'll link to Ben's Bible, and it just so happens I'll be selling a Model 994 in about a week (and it's NOT going cheap), but you already own a pretty decent machine.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ornery's LINK


Post# 266499 , Reply# 43   2/6/2014 at 19:42 (2,243 days old) by Louvac (A)        
Here's another tidbit guys...

I learned from a Royal guru that --it goes something like this, though I am not sure and will find out the truth--

 

Some commercial Royal uprights that use a dump bag but still  have the black shoot that comes up the bag are really not meant to use a paper bag and that is why it is difficult to get the paper bag cardboard collar on the tube. Then there are those upright that are designed for household use that also have the same black shoot BUT the size is different making it easier to get the paper bag cardboard collar on without a fight. Stay tuned and I will find out the answer. 


Post# 266515 , Reply# 44   2/6/2014 at 21:21 (2,243 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
David,

If you ever happen to buy that 1988 Royal 887 I sent you a link of, you can get a 9-blade metal fan for it, but it will be a different part number than those machines that already have one. The exact part no. you want will be 1608004000.

If you missed the link, here it is again:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRE-OWNED-ROYAL-...

~Ben


Post# 266532 , Reply# 45   2/7/2014 at 01:56 (2,243 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I have used the "B" bags in the dump bags that had the black plastic fill tube-When they are FULL that is the hassle of getting them out!!!So I just use that type of bag as just that-a dump out bag.

Post# 266783 , Reply# 46   2/8/2014 at 19:38 (2,241 days old) by colloquor ()        
1973 Royal 801...

My wife bought a Royal 801 in December 193, and it's still used occasionally here in the house. It's built like a tank, and has never given us one single problem - still has the original motor brushes. The selling price at that time was $124.95, and we purchased it from an independent dealer along with a Thompson & Sons Silver Knight canister for $94.95. The "big brother" to the Silver Knight, the Silver King is still manufactured by Silver King International in Colorado, and has a selling price of $3.275! Wow!

The simplicity of the Royal 801 is what intrigues me, since I'm a retired engineer. I found this thread to be most interesting and informative. I'm not, or better yet we're not, vacuum cleaner collectors - far from it, but this site is very informative and helpful to those who have questions. Much unlike many technical forums I occasionally post on, as those folks are always trying to one-up each other. I'm glad I found this site!

Don


Post# 266784 , Reply# 47   2/8/2014 at 19:41 (2,241 days old) by colloquor ()        
1973 Royal 801 (Update)...

Since I'm not an upgraded member, I couldn't edit the above post. The price of the Silver King is $3,275, not $3.275... I apologize for the typo, and I thought I had proof read the post!

Post# 266836 , Reply# 48   2/9/2014 at 06:21 (2,240 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Not A Collector?

ornery's profile picture
Howdy Don, I'm not a collector either. It would be nice to own a few vacuums. Maybe the best candidate from each manufacturer. But, they would take up more space than our little ranch can hold. We're bursting at the seams already, just with the coats & linens that take up our closet space.

Glad to hear your Royal purchase has panned out so well. Never heard of Thompson & Sons, but I see a "Knight" and "King" for sale on Ebay for around $100 each. I also see their "Blue Max" selling new for $1,250. Guess that's par for a quality machine these days.

Curious to know what you use instead of your 801, since it's only used occasionally? I'm firmly in the Royal metal upright camp for our vacuuming needs. But, if something better came along, I'd switch right over. Guess I'm not that loyal to Royal :)


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ornery's LINK on eBay


Post# 266851 , Reply# 49   2/9/2014 at 09:47 (2,240 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
$100 each?

stricklybojack's profile picture
This nice one went for $6 (see link).
I have two Silver King vacuums, a clean red one & a rusty black one that lived on a boat and will need a lot of work when i ever get to it.
These 'small batch' metal 'shop-vacs' for inside the home, with nutty high prices, are another wonderful corner of the often bizarre world of vacuums. Fairfax, Silver King, and Filter Queen all (apparently) sell for astronomical sums when purchased new.
Then there is the Tristar, Patriot, Miracle-Mate galaxy of vacuums with a similar sales MO (metal and expensive) but different design idea, bags!
Not knockin' 'em per se, i like to snap them up when i can, but the price i'll pay is a minute fraction of what they sold for new.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK


Post# 266853 , Reply# 50   2/9/2014 at 09:55 (2,240 days old) by colloquor ()        
Our other uprights...

After the purchase of the Royal 801 in 1973, my wife bought a Eureka 2062D in the early '80s I believe. It's an all-metal one that uses the F&G bags inside the cloth or poly bag, and it was manufactured at the old Bloomington, IL Eureka plant. Several years ago, my wife sort of jumped on the "bagless" bandwagon (much to my chagrin I might add), and purchased a Shark Navigator Pro. Except for dumping the dust bin, it's suprisiingly quite good, but I still prefer bagged vacuums. A few months ago, she bought a Miele S7-series "Cat & Dog" upright. It's a bit heavy at 22lbs., but does a beautiful job in vacuuming, and in the typical German fashion, is built like a watch. The filtering is amazing - a 9-layer self-closing bag, a true HEPA exhaust filter, and a totally sealed system. She bought the Miele upright based upon her experience with the Miele S6 Quartz canister, which has been a great vacuum - and, very quiet.

We have four levels in this heavily carpeted house, and she keeps an upright on each level!


Post# 266855 , Reply# 51   2/9/2014 at 10:02 (2,240 days old) by colloquor ()        
Re. $100 each?

Wow, a Silver Knight with the original swivel-end hose for $6! Absolutely amazing - I wish I could find such deals. If I ever come across something similar, it always has a stratospheric price. Here's a picture of our Silver Knight purchased in 1973 for $95 new - still works as new, and thanks to Tania here on this site, I was able to acquire some OEM bags for the vac.

Don


Post# 266871 , Reply# 52   2/9/2014 at 15:44 (2,240 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
No Deals For You!

ornery's profile picture
I'm guessing a retired engineer, who lives in a three story house, and buys various Miele vacuums, probably doesn't spend much time in thrift stores, flea markets, and auctions. Hell, I'm broke and I don't spend much time in thrift stores, flea markets, & auctions!

If you're looking for deals, Salvation Army and Goodwill occasionally have treasures to purchase. I think Wednesdays are half price! Also, Craigslist is a possibility if you feel like sifting through there.

Ebay is where you find the "true value" of an item, but not the place for deals.


Post# 268448 , Reply# 53   2/18/2014 at 20:52 (2,231 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
1991 Royal 994

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
John,

I've noticed you're selling this Royal 994 made in July 1991:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Metal-Upri...

~Ben


Post# 268449 , Reply# 54   2/18/2014 at 21:06 (2,231 days old) by kenkart ()        
I use

A 1958 Royal 801 fairly regularly, I like the old knob adjustment and narrow wheels much better than the new stuff, its quiet, and it cleans well.here it is with a 1963 975

Post# 268450 , Reply# 55   2/18/2014 at 21:13 (2,231 days old) by kenkart ()        
The Silver Knight..

Didnt change much, Mine is from the first year of production, 1955.

Post# 268451 , Reply# 56   2/18/2014 at 21:14 (2,231 days old) by kenkart ()        
It does have..

The outlet for the vaporizer..

Post# 268480 , Reply# 57   2/19/2014 at 07:10 (2,230 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

countryguy's profile picture
What does the vaporizer do and why is it powered?

Thanks,
Gary


Post# 268533 , Reply# 58   2/19/2014 at 15:45 (2,230 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        

ornery's profile picture
John,

I've noticed you're selling this Royal 994 made in July 1991:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Metal-Upri... ...

~Ben


Yep, I'm keeping the 9700. I doubt I'll find one I like better, but that doesn't mean I won't keep looking!

I enjoy getting my hands on these different models. There were so many subtle upgrades over time. It's a simple machine, but the little details make a difference in the character of each generation. And, generally, the changes are true upgrades, not change for the sake of change.

I've noticed other tools and appliances, where they start out with high quality, then find cheaper ways to manufacture them over time. Not so with these Royals. Even though they've sent production abroad, they're still solid, with no corners cut anywhere I can see.

Still, the lower amp motor with the 9 blade fan does seem to be the sweet spot in its history. I'll keep poking around in that vintage in hope of outdoing the 9700. It's a fun endeavor for sure!


Post# 268576 , Reply# 59   2/19/2014 at 19:04 (2,230 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
Ornery

Ornery since I'm a kid can I get that model 994 for $30 thanks

Post# 268622 , Reply# 60   2/20/2014 at 02:00 (2,230 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
ilovevacs 's Profile

ornery's profile picture
Member Since 02/19/2014

Where are you from:Freeport,IL
email address: ethanlawnmower@gmail.com
Real name: Dolores
Birthday: 1942-01-12
Favorite Vintage Vacuum Brand: Royal
Favorite Modern Vacuum Brand: Royal
Number of Vacuum Cleaners you have: 5
Number of Major Appliances you have: 3

Current Vacuum collection:
I have a Royal model 994 SUPER GREAT DEEP CLEANING and am looking for another one I have a Kirby G3 it is GOOD at cleaning not as good as the Royal and I have a Hoover convertible and cleans good and a shark lift away I only have 3 but I have to take care of them so they're all mine and I have a Bissel which I hate bissels there ya go.

What are your dream machines yet to be found?
A Royal model 994 vacuum.

What are your earliest and favorite vacuum memories?
When I was young I remember always pushing fake vacuums and saying the vac.

What is the history of vacuum you have owned?
The Royal got it on eBay want another Royal model 994 and the Kirby got it at a vacuum store and the Hoover got it at the Goodwill.

Have you ever worked on, repaired and/or restored any vacuum cleaners?:
No.
Favorite Link: eBay I guess


Post# 268625 , Reply# 61   2/20/2014 at 02:47 (2,230 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Dolores is 72 yet she describes herself as "a kid at heart."

~Ben


Post# 268631 , Reply# 62   2/20/2014 at 05:03 (2,229 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Since I'm Broke...

ornery's profile picture
That particular vacuum cost over $70.00 to get to our door. It was completely dis-assembled, washed, buffed and polished. Brushes removed from roller and washed as well, among many other things. It was lubed, and reassembled with new belt, bag, and light bulb. Height adjuster needed repair and adjustment, too.

It was reconditioned for our own use, but my wife still prefers the 9700. She just told me last night, she has taken more money from our home equity account. I'm in no position to give anything away... quite the opposite!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ornery's LINK on eBay


Post# 268762 , Reply# 63   2/20/2014 at 19:59 (2,229 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
I'm only 11

Ok Ornery I am 11 thats why I had to put my moms stuff because vacland would know I'm not 18 yet thanks and Ornery whenever you get a Royal model 994 let me know thanks my name is Ethan thanks

Post# 268791 , Reply# 64   2/21/2014 at 07:32 (2,228 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
can I have it for $60

I would like to know if I could have it for $60 thanks

Post# 268892 , Reply# 65   2/21/2014 at 21:14 (2,228 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
Never mind about the 994 I am now looking for a model 885

I am now looking for a Royal model 885 if do have one tell me and price put on eBay thanks

Post# 268899 , Reply# 66   2/21/2014 at 22:25 (2,228 days old) by ericaustin (Dallas, TX)        
John

Hi John,

I bought the Royal 4008 from you on eBay. Does it still have the rattle problem? Just curious. I tried to contact you several times on eBay to explain the delay in payment. I had not used PayPal in over a year and they required me to jump through some hoops to initiate payment. I do apologize for the delay. Thanks!

Eric


Post# 268913 , Reply# 67   2/22/2014 at 00:32 (2,228 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
Royal 885 for ilovevacs

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
This is what a model 885 looks like.

~Ben


Post# 268921 , Reply# 68   2/22/2014 at 06:25 (2,227 days old) by kenkart ()        
Re Vaporizer

It plugs in because it gets HOT!!! You put oil of whatever on the pad, and as air is blown thru it, it is super heated creating a actual visible fog!

Post# 268928 , Reply# 69   2/22/2014 at 07:59 (2,227 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
for ben

Is that for sale if so how much

Post# 268929 , Reply# 70   2/22/2014 at 08:03 (2,227 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Model 4008 Rattle

ornery's profile picture
"Does it still have the rattle problem?"

For starters, it actually only "rattled", more like a buzz, when vacuuming our commercial, low pile (basically no pile), glue down carpet. Vacuuming regular carpet or rugs was no issue.

Secondly, it seemed to be related to the nozzle plate, which is now formed tighter to the nozzle, and has felt added. The "rattle" is history!

One thing I liked about that unit over our 9700, is the more rubbery wheels. I'd trade our wheel cover clad wheels for those in the future.

Enjoy,
John


Post# 268932 , Reply# 71   2/22/2014 at 09:34 (2,227 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
for ben

Ben if you or anyone you know has a royal model 885 email me then price then put it on eBay thanks

Post# 268945 , Reply# 72   2/22/2014 at 12:52 (2,227 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
is there a difference between a Royal model 885 and 885CA

Ho is there a difference between a Royal model 885 and 885CA thanks if there is I'm looking for a model 885CA if you have a model 885CA email me then in the email put the price and then put on eBay thanks

Post# 268947 , Reply# 73   2/22/2014 at 12:56 (2,227 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Ethan,

Not really. The "CA" suffix means Canadian model.

~Ben


Post# 268957 , Reply# 74   2/22/2014 at 13:24 (2,227 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
to ben

Do you have or know some one who has a Canadian model or the regular model if so email me and tell me the price and put it on eBay thanks

Post# 268965 , Reply# 75   2/22/2014 at 14:05 (2,227 days old) by ericaustin (Dallas, TX)        
Rattle

John-

Thanks so much for the clarification, much appreciated. Which style bags does the 4008 take? I'd like to use it as soon as I receive! Thanks again for being so patient!! :)

-Eric


Post# 268974 , Reply# 76   2/22/2014 at 15:29 (2,227 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Royal Bags

ornery's profile picture
It comes with a new bag, #4202066247001, and belt, #4201672260001 installed, and a spare of each as well.

It uses Type B bags, which can be purchased from Vac Parts Plus, 10 bags for $8.99. If you need any other parts I would shop there. Apparently, it's owned by a Vacuumland member, but I don't know who. Prices are fair and shipping is quick.

Well, if you have a local vacuum store, you may want to give them business as well. I doubt they'll sell them as cheap as online, but if you appreciate a local store for getting accessories and consumables quickly, you should help them out a little. We have no local vacuum stores (other than Oreck), and this is the 7th largest retail city in Ohio!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ornery's LINK


Post# 269098 , Reply# 77   2/23/2014 at 13:28 (2,226 days old) by ericaustin (Dallas, TX)        
Thanks!

Thanks again John!! :)

Post# 273692 , Reply# 78   3/27/2014 at 16:41 (2,194 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
does anyone have a Royal model 2075

If anyone here has a royal model 2075 I would want one its my dream macine don't pay attention to what my profile says I can't change it thanks here's a pic of one that one is not mine

Post# 273784 , Reply# 79   3/28/2014 at 08:33 (2,193 days old) by ilovevacs ()        
does anyone have a Royal model 2075

If anyone here has a royal model 2075 I would want one its my dream macine don't pay attention to what my profile says I can't change it thanks here's a pic of one that one is not mine

Post# 288796 , Reply# 80   7/15/2014 at 04:33 (2,085 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
John (0rnery),

Here's my 1987 Royal Prince 786 metal upright (yes, it does say PRINCE on the front of the bag). It is red trim with a tan bag, just like the latter-day Electro-Hygiene 903s. It is seen here in this picture (to the left) with my (early) 1985 Royal 880 (Stark Deluxe).

The original 6-blade fan (at least) was changed to a 9-blade one (probably back in January 2008, according to a service tag applied below the nameplate on the back side of the nozzle casting). I know because when I turned it on, it sounded like an early '90s Royal.

~Ben


  View Full Size
Post# 377136 , Reply# 81   8/21/2017 at 12:01 (951 days old) by gail (Minnesota)        
Royal model 193

Can anyone identify this for me? I cannot find any information on it. Thank you.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size



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