Thread Number: 17322
Miele S8 or Sebo D4 or K3?
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Post# 186391   6/19/2012 at 22:16 (2,940 days old) by MieleMaster ()        

Quick question:

As I currently sell Miele vacuums, I am inclined to lean in their favor on this topic...HOWEVER, I have a new apartment and am debating the new S8 or a Sebo canister. My grandfathers hotels all use the Windsor Sensor vacuums, and a few of them use some additional models, but I love my Sensor, and know full-well that it is a fine Sebo product...which has sparked my interest in the Sebo vacuums. Though I have very well, thought-out opinions of the vacuums I recommend, I am just torn on this subject. I have not ever used a Sebo canister, but have come to love the Miele S5 series, thus deciding I'll probably like the S8 just as well. And, my Miele Olympus was the first ever residential vacuum purchase, as I tend towards commercial products for their cord length and overall durability... taking me back to the Sebo side! I'm getting the see-saw affect, here!

Thoughts or testimonies?

Thanks!





Post# 186394 , Reply# 1   6/19/2012 at 22:56 (2,940 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        
Best thing to do...

While you'll be able to get a lot of helpful info here, go find a Sebo dealer that will let you bring a demo machine into your own home and see how it works. Then repeat with a Miele, you may find that while you love one machine in the show room the second you get it home something may cause you to despise it. As for the Miele you'll probably pay more but the canisters are IMO much easier to work with and less bulky and the same goes for the powerheads. However others have said that the Sebo wands are lighter and easier to work with, but the Miele wands aren't too heavy. The length of the hose and cord may also be a problem with Miele, but the cord issue is simply solved by buying an extension cord and storing it with the machine. If I were in your position I would eliminate the D4 due to its size but thats just me. Also as for Miele try every model range including the S2 as all are good vacuums.

Post# 186418 , Reply# 2   6/20/2012 at 03:33 (2,940 days old) by v6jme (Telford, Shropshire/Gdansk/Gdynia)        
s8 or d4

v6jme's profile picture
Hi

If you have a lot of carpets then it would be the D4 as i found mine to be much better than any Miele, the only problem i had with the D4 was that i kept falling over it (i am a 43 year old man) and have never had this problem with any other vac, the hose does not rotate fully then i get tangled. The noise levels are about the sam abut the sebo has much better build. I sold my sebo's and went back to Miele.

I have attached a pic to show size difference between Miele S6 and Sebo D4


Post# 186419 , Reply# 3   6/20/2012 at 03:35 (2,940 days old) by v6jme (Telford, Shropshire/Gdansk/Gdynia)        
d4

v6jme's profile picture
this should have been the picture : )

Post# 186420 , Reply# 4   6/20/2012 at 03:40 (2,940 days old) by v6jme (Telford, Shropshire/Gdansk/Gdynia)        
d4

v6jme's profile picture
I do have an S8 uniQ as well so i would still say the d4 is the best cleaner for carpets, if it is mainly hard floors (like me) i would say Miele as they are easier to use and have loads of additional tools to spend your money on : )

Post# 186426 , Reply# 5   6/20/2012 at 07:40 (2,940 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
I think

And this is my personal opinion. But i well like the miele is better vacuum. Ive used a sebo and the miele is more stremed line. If you ask anyone that sells miele they willsay miele. Its also a personal opinon. But i will always choose miele. And wont buy a sebo. Not hating just something i dont like . And dare i saw it when tho i always say i dont care for Rainbow if those where the 2 vacuums made in the world , i would take a Rainbow.

Post# 186436 , Reply# 6   6/20/2012 at 10:14 (2,940 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

In my 10 plus years of experience with Miele, I'd say Miele canisters are just fantastic for general cleaning with. Quiet and efficient they are so easy to use and the spares, attachments and versatile design means you won't go wrong.

 

However through my years when I discovered that alongside my parents 15 plus year old Sebo X1 Automatic (same as Windsor Sensor) that only required one drive belt replacement in its life, I soon became a fan of the Sebo canisters. They do everything that the Miele vacuums do from my first statement - BUT the Sebo canisters also last longer, have better plastics, don't show up scrapes as easily, have lighter tubes, cheaper dust bag costs (based on the fact you get twice or more than Miele's default 4 in a box) the D series has a bigger dust bag and almost twice as much mains cord length on offer. Power wise without PN nozzles, I've never seen a difference between Sebo and Miele vacuums, but design wise I much prefer Sebo - I wish sometimes their models had the same kind of oozing touch feel goodness that Miele canisters reek of - but I'm glad the main controls on the top don't have a breezy exhaust that puts out hot air, no matter how "clean" Miele claim it is with the AAC or HEPA filter cartridge fitted. I'm not sure as to why a Miele S6 has been shown with the D series next to it as the D's natural rival is the similarly sized S5.

 

From a visual point of view, Miele wins - they know how to dress up a vacuum pretty well in terms of silver inserts, flashing lights and so forth.

 

Sebo are more the conservative company and build highly efficient vacuums with simpler controls, and sometimes unique features for a simpler life. (The AirBelt is fantastic for protecting both the home and the machine on the canisters.)

 

As FantomLightning suggests, do a trial of both products. I also have an S5 myself - it falls over from time to time like most cylinder/canister vacs and the D series is only slightly bigger. The S5 also has a very short power cord - an extension cord is not a safe option in my opinion - I like vacuums that have everything on board, not something else I have to carry around with me to get extra stretch and buying an extension hose to go on the back of the handle that Miele also sell as an additional accessory only meets the travel requirement half way - the hose has coils in it, isn't as long lasting and is inclined to snap back too readily even when full suction is used and liable to swing when fully stretched out, whacking off doors. SEBO offer longer hoses that can be handled with one hand and the main handle instead, minimising damage to the home, and in the D's case, a lot more mains power cord to take advantage of rather than constantly pulling the vacuum along with me as I travel along. 

 

ALSO - the K series is about the same size as both the S2 and S4/S6. Therefore it would be a smaller machine with a smaller dust bag on board. Dependent on the size of the home and the cleaning needs at the time, K series vacs have, again longer mains cord and still more dust bags and longer lasting filters than Miele offer with their FJM series. The winning card that Miele offer with their S2 is the bigger GN S5 dust bag and I'm sure the U.S have models with PN nozzles built on. I suspect then that the consideration then will be Miele based on the fact that consumables are more readily available compared to the recently introduced K3 or K3 Vulcano in the U.S

 

 


Post# 186475 , Reply# 7   6/20/2012 at 12:58 (2,940 days old) by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        

I would definitely take the tools into consideration when it comes to your own home. Think about what you can live with or without. I have to say that I really don't like the tools on my Capricorn. I feel the dusting brush and the crevice tool are too small. The dusting brush on my Sebo Airbelt C was too big and had synthetic bristles. If the tools seem like a good fit for your home, you'll be more likely to use them.

Post# 186477 , Reply# 8   6/20/2012 at 13:05 (2,940 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well the tools have improved on the D series. The K series uses a smaller version of the larger dusting brush that came with the Sebo C. Mind you, I like the round dusting brush on Miele vacs - they're better now that they have proper long bristles compared to the castle cut style that was liable to clog up too quickly. I, too find that the crevice tool on the Miele is too noisy - the long one that comes as standard with the Miele Vario Car Clean kit is much quieter.

 

This issue of tools brings me onto another subject - I've recently bought two new tools for use with my Miele vacs, the long dusting brush (SUB20) which is really good and the mini "mini" turbo brush that looked quite good at the time. Undecided

 

 


Post# 186519 , Reply# 9   6/20/2012 at 15:32 (2,940 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
Well

Over here miele is more popular then sebo. Ur in the uk . I feel like sebo does have thing i like but . I feel like the miele is better. There no dealer close buy is the sebo had issuses then im in trouble . And i bet you wont see a sebo in 20 years .

Post# 186534 , Reply# 10   6/20/2012 at 16:41 (2,940 days old) by v6jme (Telford, Shropshire/Gdansk/Gdynia)        
d4

v6jme's profile picture
Hi

The brushers on the PN are much stiffer on the Sebo than the Miele so on my berber carpet the sebo did a much better job and the effort to use it on carpet was much less than the Miele, the pic of the D4 next to the S6 was just to show that i chose a smaller vac to replace the Sebo D4, with the S6 shown i used a accu nova head which was ok.

I have also owned 2 Sebo x4's but they are not for me as i prefer cylinders as i find them more versatile and the x4 just seemed to skim my carpets.

Matt


Post# 186599 , Reply# 11   6/21/2012 at 08:19 (2,939 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
And i bet you wont see a sebo in 20 years .

sebo_fan's profile picture

As Ive said before, Miele are a big franchise company, churning out all manner of household appliances as well as holding a great foothold of medical cleaning machines for the health industry. They don't however produce commercial vacuums. That's where Sebo come in AND in the UK, Miele are better known - so its not as if Sebo are any different in the minds of most buyers. Which UK recently put Sebo as their number 1 brand for reliability of uprights and Miele as number 1 brand for cylinder/canisters. Ironically enough Which's excuse for either was that they didn't have enough data for Sebo's cylinder/canisters or Miele's uprights.

 

How long have Windsor been churning out the Sensor models in the U.S? Sebo came to the UK in the 1990s and they have been going since the early 1970's. I suggest however that you learn a bit more about Sebo and their brand - as a private company they merge with lots of sub-contract cleaning companies to put their machines into the industry and really, if Sebo weren't going to last in the U.S I doubt they would have allowed the U.S arm to heavily promote the machines through the use of videos. Even other countries are using the U.S videos that Sebo U.S have created. That doesn't suggest to me Sebo will be a short term stay in the U.S!

 

End of the day though, it's not about how popular a brand is when it comes to certain appliances - its about how they are made and how they function - and the original poster that created this thread is initially confused as to which brand to go for based on their cleaning requirements.




This post was last edited 06/21/2012 at 08:49
Post# 186621 , Reply# 12   6/21/2012 at 11:09 (2,939 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
re: stiffer brushes

sebo_fan's profile picture

Here's a question that I'd like to know the answer to.. given that Miele have several different PN's available - are all the brush rolls the same? Or does one particular model have stiffer bristles? Do any of the PN's have a brush stop function like the Sebo ET-1 floor heads do?


Post# 186625 , Reply# 13   6/21/2012 at 11:25 (2,939 days old) by MieleMaster ()        
Reply to the brush roll question...

The brush rolls are different on the 2 higher-end PN's. Personally, I like the SEB236 the best, but some like the one a step down, as it has more of a self-pull feel. However, I think the 236 does better for pet hair and such. If comparing the two brush rolls to another vacuum, the 236 is like a regular brush roller while the one just below it has the shape of the Sanitaire Vibragroomer 1, however, neither have beater bars... just brushes.

Post# 186626 , Reply# 14   6/21/2012 at 11:28 (2,939 days old) by MieleMaster ()        
More...

And, yes, you can stop the brush roller with the switch on the handles of any of the Miele's with PN's. And, the bristles are more stiff on the 236. Honestly, though, Sebo's brush design is better, as the bristles are more abundant and the chevron-style pattern is more efficient than the Miele, even though the 2 bigger PN's have a "chevron" style roller.

Post# 186629 , Reply# 15   6/21/2012 at 11:42 (2,939 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Ah. You see I'm not a fan of canisters with PN's. I have a K3 Premium myself. I find it too bulky and the idea of saddling a compact, lightweight vacuum with a PN isn't my cup of tea. 

 

Many years ago I did try a Miele S500 (not sure of the number) Revolution which had a powered nozzle head in the UK. Far too heavy and compromising. The K3 is smaller and much easier to handle WITHOUT the PN added, lol.  

 

At least with the Sebo ET-1 which the U.S is lucky to get as the UK models get the older, original non-lock ET-H on the K models, you can change brush rolls from the standard blue tipped bristles to a softer brush roll for softer carpets/delicates - uses the same brush roll as the X/Windsor.


Post# 186665 , Reply# 16   6/21/2012 at 15:31 (2,939 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
Well

Well i still dont stand behind sebo. Im better off with a better German vacuum Which is miele.

Post# 186668 , Reply# 17   6/21/2012 at 16:05 (2,939 days old) by ryry_87 ()        

sebo is german too lol

Post# 186670 , Reply# 18   6/21/2012 at 16:09 (2,939 days old) by ryry_87 ()        
to joshdonnell...

'And i bet you wont see a sebo in 20 years'

Take a look at my vintage Sebo threadÖ www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-... i've got Sebo's that are 30+ years old that are still going strong lol

Take a look at the link to my Youtube vids of my vintage sebos in action


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ryry_87's LINK


Post# 335966 , Reply# 19   10/20/2015 at 21:34 (1,722 days old) by Shrink1982 (Indianapolis)        
My Opinion

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I just purchased the Sebo D4 Premium with ET-1 motor head and LOVE IT. Yes, it does get tangled in the cord and it did topple over a couple of times. Also, the button to turn the brush roll off is a small round button on the top of the power head and is very hard to press (could break a toe). I would like to see this feature added to the handle as well as the on/off function. Additionally, a light would be nice and a foot peddle to raise/lower the power head would be good. However, with all that said, the suction is FANTASTIC and the motor head does an amazing job. I love the cleaner. It is big and bulky but that doesn't bother me. I have a 3100 square foot home so there is plenty of room for the machine. I cannot compare this to a Miele but I have owned a Kirby Diamond Edition and Rainbow and prefer the Sebo. The bag is large and filtration is excellent. I am VERY allergic to dust and can smell it when no one else can. The Kirby was HORRIBLE with this which is the main reason I wanted a new cleaner. I had no problems with dust in the air. It really does filter well. I have no complaints. While the changes listed above would be nice, they really at not a big deal. I want a good vacuum that doesn't cause my nose to run and that doesn't give me a headache. This is the vacuum for me.

Post# 335977 , Reply# 20   10/21/2015 at 06:58 (1,722 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

countryguy's profile picture
Just goes to prove that everyone has their own requirements in a vacuum and it sounds like the Sebo works wells for you.

Gary


Post# 335982 , Reply# 21   10/21/2015 at 08:23 (1,722 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Good points. Good to see another fan of the SEBO brand.

The D4 is of course a large canister vac. The reason that SEBO donít add any other additional controls to the handle is to make all other major components location in the same area incase anything goes wrong. This is a design element that they have continued with their newer Evolution 300 range of commercial uprights.

The ET-1 power nozzle supplied with the D4 is the same one used for the SEBO Felix upright and a number of central vac systems available in the U.S as well as the Sauger vacuums that also use the ET-1 power nozzle and a few other brands.

In all the eight years I have had the Felix and also usage with my K3 Premium canister vac, I have never broken a toe accessing the soft push button for turning off the brush roll.

Due to its European origin, SEBO donít fit any lights on their vacuums. It just isnít needed in Europe (fair enough Miele do fit some to their PN's but that would be for sole markets like the U.S and Canada) and the height adjustment dial is more robust than having a pedal at the back that could simply break off in years to come. This is why the only pedal on the vac is double strengthened with a steel bolt to unlock when using the ET-1 with either the canisters or the Felix/Dart commercial upright.


Post# 335989 , Reply# 22   10/21/2015 at 09:46 (1,722 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
Sebo or Miele

Since I have all hard wood floors, I purchased a Miele and a Sebo vacuum that don't use power nozzles, I have the Miele C1 Olympus, and the Sebo D1. They are both great vacuums, and I'm assuming the power nozzle models would be similar to these. I would have no problem recommending either brand. If possible, find a store that sells the vacuums you are interested in and see which one works the best for you. If I had to choose one or the other though, I think I would lean towards the Sebo. It just feels like it's made slightly better and has a longer cord, around 40 feet or so. But again, if you can, try each one and see what works best for you.

Post# 335996 , Reply# 23   10/21/2015 at 12:29 (1,722 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The hose on the D1 is substantially more flexible and lighter though because it doesn't have the power cable running through it. Whenever I have cleaned hard floors with a canister, I didn't like using my K3 Premium because of the inflexible hose. Much prefer suction only without the PN added and just a floor head instead.

Post# 336005 , Reply# 24   10/21/2015 at 16:20 (1,722 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
power head connector on Sebo and Miele canisters

When cleaning bare floors, I don't think I would ever use the power head with the brush turned off, that would be quite heavy, much better to use a nozzle designed for this, I think the best one is the Wessel Werk rd-285. On Sebo canisters that use power nozzles, is the connector on the hose the standard two prong female connector or do they use something else? I've actually heard the connector on the Miele canisters is something different.

Post# 336019 , Reply# 25   10/21/2015 at 22:59 (1,721 days old) by Shrink1982 (Indianapolis)        
Reply

shrink1982's profile picture
Sebo Fan, thanks for explaining. I find the button to be quite hard to push on the power nozzle but perhaps that lessens over time. I do love the vacuum. I cannot believe how well it does on my carpets. I thought the Kirby did very well on carpets but it has renewed the pile so nicely. Love it

Post# 336022 , Reply# 26   10/22/2015 at 03:18 (1,721 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
No worries, happy to help

sebo_fan's profile picture
The beauty of the ET-1 PN is that you can also use a delicate brush roll instead of the standard white or blue filaments brush roller too. I have the green delicate brush roll in my Felix for my wool carpets. Makes pushing a little heavier but then there's the manual adjuster dial that can be adjusted to make gliding a little easier.

The 2 prong connector is indeed on the bottom of the electrified suction tube of the SEBO vacuums that use the ET-1.


Post# 336113 , Reply# 27   10/24/2015 at 03:35 (1,719 days old) by Shrink1982 (Indianapolis)        
SEBO vs. Miele

shrink1982's profile picture
One of the things that frustrates me about Miele is there are so many models to choose from. I like that SEBO keeps things streamlined and simple. Is it really necessary to have all those canisters to choose from? I can't keep it straight in my head and I imagine many consumers end up purchasing the wrong model simply because they don't understand the differences between models. SEBO keeps things simple, which I like.

Post# 336114 , Reply# 28   10/24/2015 at 04:00 (1,719 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Miele are just out to make money though. SEBO are different I think. Their core market has always been the commercial market, where in some countries all of the SEBO uprights are viewable on their websites. Their German site for example lists practically every variation of commercial SEBO upright going, which I personally find confusing.

For the domestic consumer, SEBO's market share is actually smaller despite how well their vacuums work.

The most surprising brand though that outsells both Miele and SEBO is that of Bosch. Their vacuums aren't as well built in my opinion but they are cheaper to buy. Availability is their main problem, worldwide.


Post# 336267 , Reply# 29   10/26/2015 at 21:20 (1,716 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
availability of Bosch and miele models

I will try to combine two things in this message. First, regarding Bosch vacuums, yes, those are hard to find, I'm not sure if they are even available in the United States.
Ok, regarding models of Miele canisters, yes, there are a lot of them, but there are ways to make it less confusing. First, there are 3 different models of canister, other than that, the difference is what is included with them. The c1 is a full sized canister, and it comes with the micro filtration, though I think you can purchase the Hepa filter if you want to. For speed control, it uses a dial rather than push buttons. The C2 is the compact model, it's smaller than the C1 and C3. Finally, the C3 is full sized, and has the bells and whistles such as automatic suction control, and uses push buttons to control the speed rather than a dial, I think a couple of them have these controls on the hose itself. So, if you are interested in a Miele canister, first decide which base model you want, and if you are willing to pay extra for the extra features. Once you have decided on the C1, C2, or C3, you can then find the model in that series that includes the accessories you want. As far as I know, all of these use the same motor so there is no difference in over all cleaning power.


Post# 336283 , Reply# 30   10/27/2015 at 04:16 (1,716 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
That may be but in some countries, Miele also limit the amount of power cord length you get per model, different handles and sometimes limited stretch hoses from base level 1.5 to 1.8 metres. Also the telescopic height adjust tubes aren't common on all models per country - Miele also supply fixed height suction tubes with locks on them but I find them to be rather short compared to the duo-scopic tubes whilst the Tri-Scopic height adjust tubes are too heavy for me, even if they are slightly longer to the duo-ones.

Post# 336287 , Reply# 31   10/27/2015 at 08:02 (1,716 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I initially purchased an S2 (now called C1) Miele but was so impressed that I eventually also bought an S8 (now call C3). Both are suction only.

In doing a direct comparison of the C3 to the more basic C1, indeed the cord is longer by about 5 feet, the hose (the flexible silver part excluding the handle) is longer by about 1 foot and the telescopic wand is longer by about 10 inches.

Miele really should sell an optional 9-foot hose for suction only canisters. Can't figure out why they can't add that to their selection of optional accessories.


Post# 336297 , Reply# 32   10/27/2015 at 11:33 (1,716 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
From memory, the S2 in the UK had 5.5 metre cables and 1.5 metre hoses. The S6 had 6 metres or 6.5 metres and 1.8 metre hoses whilst the S8 has 10/11 metres of cable and 1.8 metre hoses. Now that Miele keep changing the model numbers for C1, C2, C3 etc I've lost touch with whatever they produce now.




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