Thread Number: 16930
KIRBY VS. DYSON
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Post# 180823   5/13/2012 at 16:08 (2,876 days old) by DysonKing474 ()        

Me and my friend are having a little argument on how dyson or kirby is better, he says kirby i say dyson, now the models have to line up, the DC41 is in alot of ways much better than a kirby sentria or G6 or 7 or ehatever the hell you want. but any dyson is BOSS

REPLY YOUR VOTE, AND SUPPLY WITH AN EXPLANATION





Post# 180830 , Reply# 1   5/13/2012 at 16:49 (2,876 days old) by dwhdarren97 ()        

Since everybody has a different opinion this thread will quickly go to hell I believe.

Post# 180832 , Reply# 2   5/13/2012 at 16:51 (2,876 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)        

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Not that far off Trolling really

Post# 180833 , Reply# 3   5/13/2012 at 16:53 (2,876 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        

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A Kirby will always outclean a Dyson, period. The larger fan creates much more airflow and the brushrolls are generally better. I have used both in my own home, and the results reflect what I just said. I do love how easy my DC14 is to use, but I'd rather deal with a Kirby and have a clean carpet.

Post# 180835 , Reply# 4   5/13/2012 at 16:59 (2,876 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Let's just say, my well-used Kirby Dual Sanitronic 80 is at least 42 years old, I'd like to see a current model Dyson after the same length of time and whether or not it works after living a life of average use...

Somehow, I think the Kirby would be more likely to be still around... :P


Post# 180838 , Reply# 5   5/13/2012 at 17:07 (2,876 days old) by Trebor ()        
Here are the facts...

A Dyson fluffs the dirt. making it appear like more than it really is. We have all seen vacs with bags packed like a bag of sugar with power to spare.

 

A Dyson does not lift the carpet like a Kirby, Sanitaire, metal Royal, or older Hoover, and it lacks the brushes of a Lindhaus that maintain constant contact with the carpet and spin at 5000rmp.

 

The Dysons do such a great job because (some) people will keep cleaning with them until they stop seeing dirt being pulled up, and the belts do not stretch. Use a Dyson like most people use their Hoover Elite and it's just another vacuum cleaner.


Post# 180840 , Reply# 6   5/13/2012 at 17:17 (2,876 days old) by DysonKing474 ()        

well the damn dyson people decided to go with the helix brushroll system instead of a standard cylindrical one

Post# 180841 , Reply# 7   5/13/2012 at 17:19 (2,876 days old) by mieles7 (DFW, TX)        

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Both of these vacuums are good.

Dyson would be good if you had to clean a whole house quickly.
Kirby would be good if you needed to do a really thorough job and had a lot of time.

Personally, I would just get a used Sanitaire and a Eureka Mighty Mite. Therefore, you would have 2 lightweight vacuums that don't require much preparation to use. Plus, you could probably get the vacuums for less than $300.


Post# 180848 , Reply# 8   5/13/2012 at 19:15 (2,876 days old) by DysonKing474 ()        

well if you get a dyson DC25 Blueprint, would you rather have a Kirby Diamond

Post# 180851 , Reply# 9   5/13/2012 at 19:53 (2,876 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Kirby

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hands down will out clean any Dyson PERIOD .

Post# 180852 , Reply# 10   5/13/2012 at 19:55 (2,876 days old) by kirby519 (Wisconsin)        
DysonKing

What are the pros of the Dyson in your opinion?

I vote for the kirby. I have used them all my life and like the performance and reliabiliy of the kirby. I have no personal issues with the weight of the kirby or setting up a kirby to preform any cleaning task i desire. I have used varous models of kirbys in homes and in commercial cleaning and found them to be reliable in any setting and will pick up most anything on the floor that will go thru it. Granted many things it will suck up isnt what it was designed for. I have used them to clean up powder from chemical fire extinquishers and drywall dust and still perform well enough to clean efficiently. Many of those same machines are still in use today some over 30 yrs old.


Post# 180924 , Reply# 11   5/14/2012 at 07:41 (2,875 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well firstly, IMHO the whole proposition of challenging a bagged vacuum versus a bagless vacuum is just not fairly represented and the Kirby is like comparing an American sized fridge freezer with a standard, smaller European model in terms of size!

The Kirby is the better performer as Mieles7 notes, and if you have the time to push the vacuum around, then you'll get an effective, better all-around cleaning performance. However the appeal of the Dyson in most cases is that the machines are lighter, easier to push and don't require as much effort despite Kirby uprights that have the self mechanism activated. Also the old mantra stands "there's no dust bags to buy/replace," but you still have to face the dirt no matter what Dyson would have you believe.

Trebor - I disagree- Dyson uprights DO lift carpets but their design doesn't necessitate that they are required to deep clean - the suction power on board in most cases takes care of that already. Dyson uprights lack the superior performance of leaving carpets groomed though.

In my experience, a brush roll that may well have a higher spin or RPM isn't always good for certain carpets and the term "over wear" springs to mind here, when too much vacuuming with a higher-spin brush roll can do carpets more bad than good where general condition is concerned. But then it also factors in the kind of brush roll that is used at the time. I liked the brush roll that Oreck XL uprights have - very bushy, not that rough to the touch and yet leave carpets looking good.


Post# 180933 , Reply# 12   5/14/2012 at 07:56 (2,875 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Everybody here knows I'm a Dyson hater, but I'm not going to vote Kirby either just because I think this thread is futile.

Post# 180934 , Reply# 13   5/14/2012 at 07:56 (2,875 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
As the owner of a DC-17

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Here's what i know:
When using the baird guage it pulls a 1.5 when the filter and assembly is clean after using it on a landing above the litter boxs it would then pull a 0
I've thoroughly vacuums rooms with the dyson then followed behind with multiple vacuums (kirby d80, Hoover Convertible, Fantom Cyclone XT) each time there was a good amount of fine dust and gritty soil in the other machine.
I hate it's brushroll! It is way too stiff i've seen it rip a line out of commercial pile carpeting and i don't use it often because i feel like i may be causing damage to the carpet.
The dyson is an interesting machine but, i feel that, it doesn't have the airflow or agitation to properly deep clean.

In terms of carpet cleaning the Kirby is definitely the better performer you cannot beat the lifting sweeping and beating of carpet to dislodge deep down grit


Post# 180935 , Reply# 14   5/14/2012 at 08:00 (2,875 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Yep, I think it is widely known that a Dyson does not pick up fine dirt, meaning over time your carpets will be ruined as you walk over them and the fine dirt acts like sandpaper.

Post# 180958 , Reply# 15   5/14/2012 at 09:53 (2,875 days old) by trebor ()        

well the damn dyson people decided to go with the helix brushroll system instead of a standard cylindrical one.

So Dyson finally copied what has been working for Lindhaus for over 20 yrs?


Post# 180981 , Reply# 16   5/14/2012 at 13:45 (2,875 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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 Just one thing, every one goes on how a Kirby is the only vacuum to be able to suck the sand up thru the carpet pile. Last week I had 4 carpets at my house replaced. They have been down for 10 years, gone thru 6 building renovations ( opur house is brick and concreate not wood)  two of the rooms haveing most of there outer facing walls removed to add bathrooms. 

There was nothing much wrong with them but they were a looped pile wool carpet and I felt like a thick plush cutpile in a new colour so we changed them.

The carpet guy wanted to know what vacuum we used as he had never in his life seen so little dust under a 10 year old carpet.

 

There wasn't even enough to sweep up. These carpets have been vacuumed by dysons for the last 10 years, at first a dc04 a green and grey non clutch model, then a dc07 with clutch but fitted with the USA soulplate and brushbar, then it jumped from dc14, dc28, dc27 , dc25 , dc15( i chop and changed between these on a daily basis )  and currently a dc40. When I started selling dysons I used many models as I tested them and tried them out. 

 

Im not saying a kirby is not good but a dyson is not as bad as many of you say it is, it could never be they spend to much on research and development testing and testing and seeing what works best on getting dirt out of a carpet. Just because its not metal and doesn't weigh a ton does not mean its not a good vacuum.

 

Gareth 


Post# 180985 , Reply# 17   5/14/2012 at 14:26 (2,875 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Well anyway, some people live like pigs, so I think it doesn't matter what cleaner you buy as the cleaning regime of the user will account for how clean the home and the carpet is. Hopefully they will be clean enough to be healthy but still have a sufficiently busy lifestyle not to worry too much about it.

Post# 181028 , Reply# 18   5/14/2012 at 17:08 (2,875 days old) by baglessball ()        

..

CLICK HERE TO GO TO baglessball's LINK


Post# 181042 , Reply# 19   5/14/2012 at 18:09 (2,875 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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As the owner of a DC07 And a.....
Kirby Dual 80
Kirby heritage
Kirby G4
Kirby 511,
I vote for the kirby.
(Obvious isn't it?)

Here's why:

While a dyson may seem to clean well, As stated above it fluffs the dirt, which enlarges it.So in this case, Seeing isn't believing.....

Another reason, The build quality,
Since i purchased my DC07, Here's how it's gone down-hill.....
1-The hose from the bend to the nozzle has disconnected,
2-The flimsy plastic carrying handle snapped in 2 and fell off.

This machine and it's flimsy plastic is not worth the 500$ price tag, You could buy around 10 used kirbys for that.

The pluses to kirby is:

!-SO MANY USES!!!!!With my 511, (What some people may consider outdated, As it's from the early 1950's) can:
Polish floors,
Fluff carpets,
Massage,
"All above floor cleaning",
Sharpen/polish silverware,
CUT WOOD/DRILL HOLES!
sand items down,
AND MORE!
All this in one little package that'll last until the end of the millennium!

And you may say, "Kirby weighs a ton"......Not my little old 511!
I haven't even emptied the bag since i got it LAST YEAR, and it weighs less than 10 pounds!

So in conclusoin,

Be happy, Be healthy, Be clean,
And invest in a Kirby home sanitatoin system ;)

-Alex.


Post# 181043 , Reply# 20   5/14/2012 at 18:14 (2,875 days old) by goadie12 ()        

Wow that video is awesome any I agree 100% with it. "He who vacuums last wins" awesome thanks. Zach

Post# 181045 , Reply# 21   5/14/2012 at 18:20 (2,875 days old) by goadie12 ()        

I think I stand more on the side of the Kirby simpily because of all the reasons stated above and I am more of a taditionalist. But the fact of the matter this world is made up of many different people and everyone has their own opinion. Those who like Kirby's will never be convinced dyson is better and those who like dyson will never be convinced Kirby is better. Thats my two sence on the whole topic thanks. Zach

Post# 181327 , Reply# 22   5/16/2012 at 10:28 (2,873 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa, OK)        
Carpet and Rug Institute (CRI)

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The Carpet and Rug Institute is a very well respected company which tests vacuum cleaners and rates them based on their ability to remove soil from carpets and rugs. Higher end brands like Oreck, Kirby, Royal and Sanitaire are ranked very high. The Hoover Windtunnel and their commercial uprights also scored very well. Dyson was not mentioned at all. In fact very few bagless vacuums made the list.

 

The newest Rainbow also has the Carpet and Rug Institute seal of approval and is the only canister listed in the household category. Although the Simplicity Verve and Riccar Pristine are also listed in the Household and Commercial Canister category which is odd. I thought the Riccar and Simplicity were household canister vacuums and not intended for commercial use. I'm getting off topic :(



CLICK HERE TO GO TO kloveland's LINK



This post was last edited 05/16/2012 at 11:18
Post# 181340 , Reply# 23   5/16/2012 at 13:30 (2,873 days old) by vinvac (Dubuque IA)        

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Alex,

I couldn't agree more with comentary above.

Bagless vacuums all have the gimick issue going for them. Most bagged machines compact the dirt with in the bag not fluffing it as you describe.

People can see the dirt so they think it is cleaning so much better.

I repaired a Hoover Windtunnel for some friends from church. Their son talked them into purchasing a Dyson..not sure which model. They were taken back by the dirt they saw in the bin. I asked them to vacuum first using the Dyson and then go back over the same room with the Windtunnel. I gave them a synthetic type Y bag to use in the Windtunnel. Asked them once they were done to cut open the bag on the Windtunnel...they called me and thanked me for repairing the Windtunnel. the sand and grit, plus dog hair that the Windtunnel picked up was twice what was in the bin of the Dyson...they are still using the Windtunnel as their deep cleaner.

For me, get rid of stretch hoses, have tools that are actually useable, must have the blower option, and built with at least a little bit of metal...

but that is just me!

They all do the job they are supposed to...


Post# 181395 , Reply# 24   5/16/2012 at 19:39 (2,873 days old) by kirbykid (Horseheads,New York 14845)        
kirby and dyson

the kirby is more expensive so of coarse you would think that it is made better because it is... but for your money i still think the kirby is better cause it really will last a life time and a dyson wont last as long.


Post# 181400 , Reply# 25   5/16/2012 at 20:14 (2,873 days old) by ned_flanders ()        

I don't know...I've seen more tests showing poor results for the Dyson than Kirby. I do agree (regardless of performance) that there is a selling gimmick to the clear bagless vacuums. Maybe Kirby should come out with a clear bag...

Post# 181402 , Reply# 26   5/16/2012 at 20:45 (2,873 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Uprights: Kirby or Sanitaire for me. :)

Even a Eureka "The Boss" 1934B or Smart Vac 4870 will outperform a Dyson

Canisters: Rainbow or TriStar will outclean a DC23.


Post# 182967 , Reply# 27   5/28/2012 at 16:58 (2,861 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well, here's something you don't find everyday on EBay, and some proof that a higher power can be found in a bag than a bagless vac (!)

CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK on eBay


Post# 182972 , Reply# 28   5/28/2012 at 17:16 (2,861 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        
kirby or dyson

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a Hoover junior will out clean a Dyson

Post# 182983 , Reply# 29   5/28/2012 at 18:10 (2,861 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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As a Junior fan, I'm inclined to agree - but only where carpets are concerned. That is after all, all that a Junior can do. A Dyson on the other hand is far more modern, has everything you need on board. Well, except maybe a receptacle/storage area for storing your own ear plugs into : )

Post# 182986 , Reply# 30   5/28/2012 at 18:19 (2,861 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

It will only out clean -if indeed this is true- the areas of a home where the user puts it. This is what makes a carpet cleaner than the next. Anyone can own the best vacuum cleaner in the world and still have the dirtiest carpets in the world if they don't use it in all the necessary areas.

Post# 241186 , Reply# 31   7/21/2013 at 08:59 (2,442 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)        

Dyson is the best. Kirby's clog as they have bags. Dyson's don't, they have Cyclones. And are a lot better designed, more modern, and MUCH easier to manoeuvre. Ball or No ball.

Post# 241187 , Reply# 32   7/21/2013 at 09:24 (2,442 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        
Kirby's clog as they have bags

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well you will find that inside the shroud there will be a horrible dust build up, kirby don't clog there air paths are to wide to clog, if you mean the pours of the bag clog then thats true but there is no noticeable drop in performance, besides do you even have a kirby to back up your statement

Post# 241188 , Reply# 33   7/21/2013 at 09:39 (2,442 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

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To be honest, a Dyson is more likely to clog than a Kirby.

Post# 241191 , Reply# 34   7/21/2013 at 10:07 (2,442 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)        

I don't have a Kirby but I wouldn't want one. I prefer my Cyclones to paper bags. It's more of an innovation in Product Design.

The shroud on my DC14 has never clogged, it has only once lost suction, that's because I hadn't cleaned the filter in ages. But that was a while ago.

Debate over for me. My opinion is Dyson's are better. Don't want to get in a huge argument.


Post# 241192 , Reply# 35   7/21/2013 at 10:16 (2,442 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Oh no, I'm not trying to start an argument, I respect your opinion. I was just saying that a Dyson is more likely to clog than a Kirby. If you like Dyson's more than Kirby's then that's fine :)

Post# 241194 , Reply# 36   7/21/2013 at 10:22 (2,442 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        
im not arguing

thekirbylover's profile picture
I didn't say cyclones i said inside the shroud it will be dusty and smelly, and kirbys also use a thick fabric filter bag which doesn't loose as much performance as the paper ones do (not that the performance drop is noticeable), also the performance of a kirby is much better than a dyson, I have many Dyson's and have 4 kirbys

Post# 241200 , Reply# 37   7/21/2013 at 11:19 (2,442 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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End of the day though - the bag takes it all - if you have to clean out a secondary filter or a third and so forth, bagless is messy no matter how many brands try and pull the wool over buyers eyes with the British Allergy Foundation seal of approval. The approval and the HEPA filter doesn't save you come the time to empty or having to deal with the secondary filters on board.

Post# 241205 , Reply# 38   7/21/2013 at 11:33 (2,442 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        

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the secondary filters are messy but all the dirt is contained on the filter so hardly going into the air, on some bagged machines you also have to touch messy filters, and it takes time not money i suppose

Post# 241213 , Reply# 39   7/21/2013 at 12:32 (2,442 days old) by dysonman1 (Rolla, MO)        

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Which is better, Dyson or Kirby? Got any spare pocket change? The Kirby will grind the pennies like you had dropped them in the garbage disposal. The Kirby is inconvenient to use - no on-board hose. And all the dirt passes over the belt. You have to understand that NORMAL people (non collectors) are going to be the real judges, not us collectors. Normal consumers want an on board hose, they don't want to drive somewhere to spend money on bags (money thrown into the trash can - think of the $5 bill a Miele bag costs - are you really going to throw away a five dollar bill?) And then there's the belt issue. The Kirby is no more than it was 75 years ago. The Dyson is built to be what modern consumers want in a vacuum. Obviously, if you gave both to a test group of 10 women, all 10 would prefer the Dyson over the Kirby as it's easier to use, easier to maintain, and faster to clean with. Does that make it better? No. But it makes it better in the minds of the average consumer.

Post# 241217 , Reply# 40   7/21/2013 at 13:05 (2,442 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)        

I agree there. The Dyson has a much more modern design. It is up to the consumer, not the vacuum collector or enthusiasts as we all have more in-depth opinions.

I suppose if you want a classic design of vacuum and prefer bags, go for the Kirby.

But, if you an easy to use, easy to manoeuvre vacuum, then go for the Dyson.

Each vacuum cleaner has an upside and downside. NO vacuum is completely perfect. Not even Dyson's Kirby's or whatever!



Post# 241241 , Reply# 41   7/21/2013 at 15:11 (2,442 days old) by compamac ()        
In my opinion...

Any day!! A Kirby will beat a Dyson even if the Kirby bag is more than halfway full and the Dyson is emptied that is how much better a Kirby is. I have done the test myself between the Oreck, Kirby, and Dyson. Well guess what?? Kirby won.


Post# 241246 , Reply# 42   7/21/2013 at 15:27 (2,442 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH)        
Kirby also has.....

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A rubber bumper to prevent nicks and scatches to fine wood furniture. Even if you are careful, a vacuum without a protective bumper will eventually scratch your furniture. I will not buy any vacuum without a protective bumper and it needs to be soft rubber not the thin hard rubber that is on some bagged vacuums. For instance the 1400 Series Eurekas.....

I don't have a Dyson, but have read time after time about the sand and grit that is found under carpet that was taken care of by a dyson........


PR-21


Post# 241248 , Reply# 43   7/21/2013 at 15:34 (2,442 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        
DysonKing74

What's the point in this?

I mean, come on, is there need to argue with your friend over it, you can't make eachother think the same opinion etc. He thinks Kirby's are better because his family may have used bagged cleaners with a traditional design. Your family onn the other hand might have used more modern vacuums with modern features.

I don't like Dysons, having used a DC04 which picked up less than aa Cylinder Vacuum, & the fact that they cost loads just for some vac that could have any name on it. They all come from the same place: China / Malaysia but I think Dysons have a poor build quality for their extortionate prices & the fact that they never used to give a toss about carpet care.

Do you think James Dyson gives a **** wether one person thinks a different brand of vacuum is better than his? I wouldn't think so. He has a massive fan base in the US & UK.

I don't like Kirby's either, as they are expensive, heavy etc. but no ones going to report me about it. I have a different opinion. EG I like Hoover Purepowers & many VL.org don't. Nothing wrong with that.

So really there was no point in starting this thread unless you wanted to show your friend what your VL friends thought, but TBH it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

>Rant Over<


Post# 241253 , Reply# 44   7/21/2013 at 16:11 (2,442 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Dyson has better features, and it more user friendly, and would always be more popular, would you like an on board hose? or take the cleaner head off, then put on the hose, Not me, but British people mainly choose Numatic, Dyson or Vax

Post# 241255 , Reply# 45   7/21/2013 at 16:36 (2,442 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Exactly Tayyab,

You choose whatever brand, features, etc. you want.

Britain aren't as used to Kirbys as in the US where houses are bigger with loads more floor space, that's why cylinders are so popular here, they are easier to navigate.


Post# 241256 , Reply# 46   7/21/2013 at 16:48 (2,442 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
"End of the day though - the bag takes it all - if you have to clean out a secondary filter or a third and so forth, bagless is messy no matter how many brands try and pull the wool over buyers eyes with the British Allergy Foundation seal of approval. The approval and the HEPA filter doesn't save you come the time to empty or having to deal with the secondary filters on board." I concur! Say what you want about bags clogging et cetera, but you won't get covered in dust when changing a paper bag, that's for sure.

Post# 241258 , Reply# 47   7/21/2013 at 16:56 (2,442 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Especially with Hoover Purepower 'Self Seal' ones

Post# 241260 , Reply# 48   7/21/2013 at 17:02 (2,442 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        

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well you do have to touch the dirty filters on bagged machines

Post# 241263 , Reply# 49   7/21/2013 at 17:47 (2,442 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Jamie, Not all bagless vacs are messy, the Dysons with a Bin flap are not messy, all you need to do is lower it into the bin, and do it outside, or put it in a bag, (plastic bags are free btw) so thats good for allergy sufferers, and Also unlike other vacuums with a Bin flap, the release mechanism is at the top with the handle, not next to the bin flap, or ele you either must put your hand in the bin (EWW) or empty the vac whilst the bag is at the top of the bin, leaving a big dust loud, so Dyson is not a bad vac
Ps I do admit th Early dysons were messy to empty, but they improved the features everytime they launched a new model, and now its all good


Post# 241266 , Reply# 50   7/21/2013 at 18:18 (2,442 days old) by compamac ()        
Parwaz786

Really? a Dyson has more features? I just didnt notice the sander, shampooer, portable sprayer, entire set of tools, and inflator on the Kirby. Yeah the Dysons 3-4 basic attachments really are more than the Kirby. Really I cant believe you said that. And you complain about taking off the Kirby nozzle to put a hose on? It actually makes the vacuum better because you can check the brushroll easier, check the belt, and check the fan easier. I dont see the Dyson with 4 included tools beating a Kirby with at least 10 included tools feature wise.


Post# 241268 , Reply# 51   7/21/2013 at 18:32 (2,442 days old) by dysonman1 (Rolla, MO)        

dysonman1's profile picture
People in America don't wake up one day and say "I'm going to buy a Kirby". All Kirby vacuums are sold to people who are not in the market for a vacuum. Remember, the second job of a Kirby salesman is to make a customer unhappy with their present vacuum.

I got the Miele Salsa upright from a very good friend, who is also a vacuum collector. My friend didn't like it (really, really didn't like it) because it was very heavy. My fiancee loves the Miele, which is why I bought it from my friend. Dan likes it because it IS heavy. He thinks a heavy vacuum cleans better because there's weight to the nozzle (head) of the machine.

I've let him use Dysons, Kirbys, Hoovers, Electrolux, Rainbow, Filter Queen, Simplicity - he always comes back to the Miele. He is not a vacuum collector and used to own a Dirt Devil Featherlite Bagless when I met him. So he's no expert. But he IS a typical person who looks at a vacuum cleaner as "something you use to clean the house with - like a mop or broom".

He's exactly the type of consumer that today's vacuum manufacturers are looking at. While collectors will always argue which brand or model is better, it's because we have a number of them to choose from, and we have experience running lots of them. The typical person who uses a vacuum, uses the same one its' entire life.

Here's the rub: Dan won't turn the brush roller off when he cleans the bare floor. He actually said "it's too much trouble to do it". Really? The button is right at your fingertips, but he believes you shouldn't have to do anything when going from the rug to the floor. And that's exactly what the average person thinks too.

Out of 100 women, not one (I'll bet) would want to go through the trouble of actually using a Kirby as their only vacuum. It's really just too much trouble. But remember - to the average person, as long as the carpet looks clean, as long as the nap stands up and the dog hair is gone, the vacuum has done its job. They don't want to go back to the closet for attachments. They don't want to stop. They want a very long cord. And they don't want to have to go somewhere special for vacuum bags. They just don't.

While the average vacuum owner is nothing like us collectors, we collectors cannot keep a company in business. The Hoover Constellation was obsoleted last year because they couldn't sell enough to justify the cost. Same thing would happen if they brought back the Hoover Convertible. After the 100 or so collectors bought them, they'd sit forever on store shelves - as they aren't want the average vacuum customer wants.


Post# 241270 , Reply# 52   7/21/2013 at 18:45 (2,442 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        

thekirbylover's profile picture
your kirby may come with all that fancy stuff, but people dont use them and they quite frankly dont work ( the accessories), I have a friend and his parents own 2 kirby sentria's, now they use the hose because they're used to it but all of these other tools are in a box in the garage, most people that own dysons only use the crevice tool, my point is is that the kirby has so many tools you dont no what to do with them, with the dyson there is one for each job, one for dusting one for upholstery/stairs and one for dusting what else do you need, also when i took my dc25 to his house because they're kirby belts snapped my friends mum used it and loved how she could just pull the hose out

Post# 241271 , Reply# 53   7/21/2013 at 18:51 (2,442 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

That's why in the UK people love (or did) the Morphy Richards Vorticity. Cyclones in the floorhead, quite ingenious actually & brilliant build quality. 5 yr guarantee & it was heavily advertised when first launched alongside MR giving away loads of them to bloggers for testing, where they all cam back positive.

People chose what they want, even though they might be persuaded into buying something they don't want. Many people are like my mum for example. When she & my dad got together in 1994, she has always had a Numatic Henry since then, & because she says their cheap, she always gave them to my brother / sister when they moved out! I practically grew up with Henry's lol.

I am going to purchase a MR Vorticity soon though, love the look of it. I prefer a cylinder, easier to use than an upriight as the main bit's behind you. Much like a Steam Iron & Steam Generator. With a regular Steam Iron you have everything on board (water tank, controls) like an Upright & a Steam Generator you have the iron, a hose connected to the Port which holds the Water Tank etc. like a Cylinder.


Post# 241273 , Reply# 54   7/21/2013 at 18:59 (2,442 days old) by compamac ()        
Good points guys...

But my posts are only my OPINION its all good :D


Post# 241316 , Reply# 55   7/21/2013 at 22:01 (2,442 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
If you're going to start on the "non-vacuum collectors, just normal buyers route," here's what they will be looking for (gleamed by the way from a lot of reviews online that I read):

1) Filters that you don't have to constantly clean to maintain suction.
2) Filter shrouds that you don't have to take apart to clean clogged dirt including that pet hair that gets stuck to the top of the shroud where the bottom trapdoor for main dirt release is of no use.
3) Washable filters and a replacement filter equipped with the vacuum at the time of purchase so that one can be used in lieu of the other being washed.
4) A Drive belt that can be easily replaced by the owner, or if lifetime belts are still fitted, still able to be replaced by the owner, not sent away to the brand.

Lastly, since I have owned Dyson and Vax, I think can still stand and say its messy - it doesn't matter what Dyson and others would have you believe - whether you choose to dump dust in a bin outside the home or inside the home - when it lands on other rubbish, dirt inevitably flies up - just because you can't see it, doesn't mean you don't breathe it in. I loved the bin on my Vax Mach Air - thin enough to fit into my kitchen bin but when the dust hits, the outer bin gets coated, my hands get coated and that means the dust is on my hands.

As for bagged upright filters - its a thin pad of felt compared to the nonsense some bagless brands like Vax have - no contest - the bagged vacuum is better as there is less mess.

And, the next time you moan about the bags for your machine and having to buy them, what about the drive belt on your Dyson when it breaks? You still have to buy something for it!


Post# 241326 , Reply# 56   7/22/2013 at 01:00 (2,441 days old) by kenkart ()        
Well..As someone who doesent really like either one,

I will weigh in on this,as uprights go, a 150 Hoover or Eureka 260 will outclean both of them,either is lighter and much easier to use , but if I were buying a new vacuum I wouldnt buy a Kirby because its too wide for most houses, and I wouldnt buy a Dyson because it is so cheap feeling.I would buy a sebo or Miele, or one of the Tacony products,but until someone makes real quality.."METAL!" im sticking with mostly 1950s technology!

Post# 241329 , Reply# 57   7/22/2013 at 01:22 (2,441 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
"While the average vacuum owner is nothing like us collectors, we collectors cannot keep a company in business. The Hoover Constellation was obsoleted last year because they couldn't sell enough to justify the cost. Same thing would happen if they brought back the Hoover Convertible. After the 100 or so collectors bought them, they'd sit forever on store shelves - as they aren't want the average vacuum customer wants."

****

I heartily disagree.

I have this same argument with colleagues at work in network television, when I bemoan the "bullshit news" and "info-celebritainment" we've now degraded into, only to be told "But that's what the viewers WANT! Our ratings are still up!"

Not really.

If the ONLY thing the networks serve up is bullshit news and celebritainment, viewers will watch it only because there's nothing else on.

Further blowing holes in their argument that the public "wants" to watch brain-dead pablum is the fact that cable and pay TV channels are KICKING. THE. NETWORKS'. ASSES. Record numbers of viewers are not flocking to the reality crap we're serving up, but rather to the well-written, well-produced narratives like "House of Cards" (nominated for Best Drama Emmy and it's only available ONLINE!), Downton Abbey, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Homeland ... need I go on?

But back to vacuums.

Why are people buying nothing but Dysons and other plastivac nightmares? BECAUSE THAT'S LARGELY ALL THAT'S AVAILABLE! At least, that's all that's available at the usual retail outlets where "most consumers" shop.

Put a 1973-style Hoover Convertible, Kirby, or Aerus in those showrooms right next to the plastivac nightmares and THEN tell me what everyone is buying.


Post# 241330 , Reply# 58   7/22/2013 at 01:26 (2,441 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Hans ...

nycwriter's profile picture
"I will weigh in on this,as uprights go, a 150 Hoover or Eureka 260 will outclean both of them,either is lighter and much easier to use , but if I were buying a new vacuum I wouldnt buy a Kirby because its too wide for most houses, and I wouldnt buy a Dyson because it is so cheap feeling.I would buy a sebo or Miele, or one of the Tacony products,but until someone makes real quality.."METAL!" im sticking with mostly 1950s technology!"

****

Boy do I hear you!

I would love to have a Kirby or a Royal (for some reason I like the look of the Royal better), but for me, in my apartment, it really does come down to the very wide (and deep!) "footprint" of both. I just don't have the acres of wide-open carpeted space that would justify such a beast.

And after trying out a canister for the first time ever, it really is SO much easier navigating a much smaller power nozzle (with no giant inflated bag right behind the handle) through some of the tighter spots. And the L-shaped head on the Aerus is genius for getting around chair legs!


Post# 241342 , Reply# 59   7/22/2013 at 02:21 (2,441 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        
that old turkey again

anthony's profile picture
first of all the video is pointless because we didnt see that both machines were empty before the test secondly i find it hard to believe that the dyson got all that dirt out after the kirby had been there first that makes me think the kirby isnt working properly as the machine is going back and forth there are no signs that the carpet is being disturbed at all thirdly here in the uk the general public who know little about vacuums [and dont want to ]will buy a dyson because its become some kind of status symbol .Working for leeds city council i go into lots of homes across the city some of them are filthy [and thats being kind ]there will be the inevitable dyson alongside the huge telly and matching fridge oh yes and usually a dog with a larger brain than its owner .the dyson will be strategically positioned just inside the front door so everyone visiting can see it and woe betide anyone who hasnt got the latest model .Once the machine is full its lazy owner cant be bothered to empty it so it will be thrown [usually on the front garden ]out and replaced i know this because i see loads of them this throw away world we now live in is here to stay and set to get worse i fear

Post# 241366 , Reply# 60   7/22/2013 at 04:35 (2,441 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The Kirby Vs Dyson isn't an unusual post or decision - it could well be another bagged vacuum against a bagless vacuum - end of the day, it isn't a fair contest.

Its like comparing a conventional convection oven with a multi convection oven - they both offer one way to heat and cook food whilst the multi convection offers more versatile ways to cook. No brainer there.


Post# 241368 , Reply# 61   7/22/2013 at 04:46 (2,441 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
"well you do have to touch the dirty filters on bagged machines" But that is just it - THEY ARE NOT THAT DIRTY!! Because the bag acts as the main filter, the other filters barely get dirty at all.

Besides, that argument is totally void when you think about how dirty a bagless vacuum cleaner's filters are.


Post# 241386 , Reply# 62   7/22/2013 at 06:12 (2,441 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        
First of all...

alexhoovers94's profile picture

Kirbys are not some god sent like everyone thinks they are, they are just another really good dirty fan vacuum cleaner just like the Hoovers, Sanitares and Royals were. Secondly, this is a ridiculous argument, they are both better in different ways -the Kirby will be better for the cleaning of carpets, it is much more energy efficiant and the Kirby should last you much longer because it is better built, but the Dyson is way more convenient in the fact it has on-board tools, has better hose suction, much more modern looking and will be much lighter to carry, not to mesion cheaper...Now which one do you think appeals to the consumer?

This is a silly, kidish debate if you ask me.

 

Alex.




This post was last edited 07/22/2013 at 11:56
Post# 241391 , Reply# 63   7/22/2013 at 06:17 (2,441 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Since when did looking modern equate to being more convenient?

Post# 241393 , Reply# 64   7/22/2013 at 06:23 (2,441 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        
...

alexhoovers94's profile picture
It doesn't

Post# 241398 , Reply# 65   7/22/2013 at 06:40 (2,441 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        
JM

If people were to Choose either between a Kirby or Dyson, they'd choose a Dyson as you look at a Kirby & think how much of a problem it would be to use. Looking modern dosen't equate to being more convenient, but as someone mentioned earlier, Dyson has modern features that todays people want, which it to get vacuuming done in as little time as possible. Your not going to achieve that by using a Kirby. Kirby's however, are very good vacuums I agree but only if you have the time & preferably body strength to use one.

Post# 241424 , Reply# 66   7/22/2013 at 08:11 (2,441 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        
But that is just it - THEY ARE NOT THAT DIRTY

thekirbylover's profile picture
try saying that when looking at a turbopower junior outer bag or my miele s4 filter (hepa)

Post# 241427 , Reply# 67   7/22/2013 at 08:54 (2,441 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        
i agree

anthony's profile picture
a dyson looks more up to date thats why its become some kind of status symbol and please dont think from my previous posts that i am in favour of either machine i can only tell you what i see on a daily basis .

Post# 241462 , Reply# 68   7/22/2013 at 11:30 (2,441 days old) by myles_v (Fredericksburg, VA)        

myles_v's profile picture
Personally, I like Kirbys. I love all the different attachments they have, all the things they can do and how well they clean. But I hate the noise. Kirby vacuums are really annoying. They aren't loud like Dirt Devil and Hoover, and they aren't high pitched like some Dysons and Sharks, but they are annoying.

My daily driver at my mom's house is currently my Dyson DC-14. It works okay on the carpet, but if you look at the dirt in the container it is mostly comprised of carpet fibers. The carpets there are as old as the house which was built in 2006 so they should not be shedding very much.

I don't mind having to switch things on the Kirby to use the attachments as I normally go around dusting and vacuuming furniture first, then I vacuum the carpet and then I vacuum the hard floors. I prefer the way the Kirby is designed because you can replace the normal handle with the portable cleaner handle and use it as a canister vacuum, replacing the need for a canister vacuum. But the reason I don't have one is the noise.


Post# 241469 , Reply# 69   7/22/2013 at 11:51 (2,441 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture

It is the pre filters that you should be looking at, not the post filters, the post filters will go very dirty due to the motor is expelling carbon dust. The pre filter or outer cloth bag should only really get as dusty/dirty as the bagless cyclonic cleaners.

Bagless vacuums trying to compete with Dyson have come a long way since about 2004, the filters on a Dysons or other muti cyclonic cleaner should be no cleaner or dirty than a bagged vacuum pre filter or outer bag. What does it really matter anyway? If it is just a foam or sponge filter all you do is give it a bit of a rinse under the tap, leave it to dry, then put it back in.

All vacuums, bagged, bagless or cyclonic will require some what regular filter cleaning/replacing.


Post# 241486 , Reply# 70   7/22/2013 at 13:12 (2,441 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Yes, but if there is ONE aspect that springs to mind with the Kirby - its not a vacuum you'd want to allow to fall down a flight of stairs. It would either be bashed or bash the home around it as it tumbles. But, therein, I reckon it would still work if it went through such abuse. As Dyson has continually pointed out, his vacuums from PVC are better made than anything else - so any Dyson upright would do a tigger down a stair with the possibility of something breaking off when it finally comes to a stop.

Post# 241504 , Reply# 71   7/22/2013 at 14:05 (2,441 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        

thekirbylover's profile picture
ive thrown my dc33 and one of my dc07s and the only thing that came off was the crevice tool

Post# 241517 , Reply# 72   7/22/2013 at 14:55 (2,441 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture

 

 

One of my Turbopower 2's fell down the stairs a few moths back it was near the edge of the top step and it overbalanced, I watched it go all the way down and I had the face as if I had seen a ghost! As soon as it stopped at the bottom, I raced straight to it... The only thing that happened was the bag door came off and it had snapped down into it's low profile possision with the force of the fall (it was facing the stairs, it didn't have it's back to it) but NOTHING was broken at all, I just stood it back up, upright and put the bag door back on, it still works and does not sound at all out of tune.


Post# 241523 , Reply# 73   7/22/2013 at 15:31 (2,441 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
The exact same thing happened to my 1994 Hoover Turbopower 1000 back in about 2010 when my mother was using it, and it still shows no signs of structural damage 3 years on.

Hoovers - made to last! Or they used to be anyway.


Post# 241524 , Reply# 74   7/22/2013 at 15:32 (2,441 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Sadly when my DC02 cylinder vac fell many moons ago, the top filter cover broke off, a chip off the Antartica handle on the main canister broke off and one of the wheels were never quite the same again.

I've had several vacuums fall down the stairs due to early clumsiness - Hoover's U1104 had a nasty fall down the stair with the plastic cord hooks snapping off but luckily nothing else broke off it. My "Special 900" TP model faired a little worse with the main handle sustaining a crack and resulting in the main hinge becoming looser as time went on.

And of course that ruddy Vax canister where a few chips of plastic came off the secondary rim below the main motor. No longer sealed but still did the job of pick up.


Post# 241529 , Reply# 75   7/22/2013 at 15:38 (2,441 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        
and it still shows no signs of structural damage 3 years on.

thekirbylover's profile picture
except a new motor

Post# 241533 , Reply# 76   7/22/2013 at 15:43 (2,441 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        
I hate to say it but...

alexhoovers94's profile picture

LOL!


Post# 241564 , Reply# 77   7/22/2013 at 18:21 (2,441 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

I threw a DC05 down the stairs, a few times in 1 go, it was as durable as a HENRY!! the only thing that was broken was the cyclone handle thing

Post# 241844 , Reply# 78   7/24/2013 at 05:46 (2,439 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well it can't be as durable as a Henry as Henry simply bounces down the stairs due to the great PVC build and hasn't shattered or broken off in my experience.

Post# 241847 , Reply# 79   7/24/2013 at 06:25 (2,439 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
My Mum has dropped her Henry down the stairs twice now! (Not on purpose!). It's survived both falls without a single mark and works perfectly :)

Post# 241848 , Reply# 80   7/24/2013 at 06:25 (2,439 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Dysons in my opinion are poor quality & even when you wash the filters they still smell. Overpriced heap of junk that fluffs up firt & makes it appear you've sucked up loads when you really haven't.

Post# 241850 , Reply# 81   7/24/2013 at 06:31 (2,439 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

I also fell down stairs WITH Henry, but it dosen't help that our stairs are actually wooden & the hose is long as it gets caught around your feet!

I did have several bruises though...


Post# 241852 , Reply# 82   7/24/2013 at 06:39 (2,439 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Michael - when did a motor become structural?

Post# 241853 , Reply# 83   7/24/2013 at 06:40 (2,439 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
Did Henry push you down the stairs or something? :P

Post# 241854 , Reply# 84   7/24/2013 at 06:47 (2,439 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        
ultimatevacman

I was carrying it out to the car, we had it upstairs & I fell, the hose got wrapped around my feet & I crashed down. Then I lay still at the bottom with Henry on top of me.

Post# 241855 , Reply# 85   7/24/2013 at 07:00 (2,439 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
Oh dear, Henry tried to trip you over! :O

Post# 241856 , Reply# 86   7/24/2013 at 07:02 (2,439 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Yes, & it wasn't good as I was 9 at the time!

Post# 241857 , Reply# 87   7/24/2013 at 07:21 (2,439 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
I bet it wasn't pleasant! and I bet you didn't like Henry much after that!

Post# 241859 , Reply# 88   7/24/2013 at 07:39 (2,439 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

No I still like him, well, we have a different one now so it's all good.

Post# 241875 , Reply# 89   7/24/2013 at 10:45 (2,439 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        
jamie

thekirbylover's profile picture
a motor isn't structural but your making out like your 1000 is on amazing condition and has had nothing replaced or anything wrong with it, I pointed out that its had a new motor

Post# 242028 , Reply# 90   7/25/2013 at 10:38 (2,438 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Yes. that seems to be an issue that JM doesn't wish to acknowledge- not exactly built well when a machine requires a new motor.

Still, when other things are considered - how a motor can withstand the fair knocks etc with daily life it is good to know what the brands are doing to seal the motor as well as protect it. I can't speak for every machine I own but I know SEBO go to lengths of offering protection for their sealed motor on board the K1 series.



Post# 242193 , Reply# 91   7/26/2013 at 13:35 (2,437 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture

 

 

"Yes. that seems to be an issue that JM doesn't wish to acknowledge- not exactly built well when a machine requires a new motor."

 

If you are implying that the Turbopower 1000 is not built well then I am horrified to say the least!


Post# 242195 , Reply# 92   7/26/2013 at 13:36 (2,437 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        
If you are implyying that the Turbopower 1000 is not built w

thekirbylover's profile picture
two words, bag door

Post# 242196 , Reply# 93   7/26/2013 at 13:40 (2,437 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture

 

 

The bag doors splitting was due to the structual design of the bag door, not the plastic...The rest of the machine was made from the same plastic, should that not split too under force? The only thing I have ever seen broken on a Turbo 2 is the bag door.

Needless to say, they apparently fixed that issue with the inroduction of the Turbopower 3...I have a Turbopower 3 and it's bag door is not split and no other Turbopower 3 that I have seen, has had a spilt bag door.

 


Post# 242211 , Reply# 94   7/26/2013 at 14:12 (2,437 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Alex - have a look at the Which test scans I've added if you have the time.

Post# 242332 , Reply# 95   7/27/2013 at 00:21 (2,436 days old) by vegassucks ()        
Dirty mess

Sorry Dyson owners, I appreciate the engineering of the Dyson, they started a new trend. But the truth is Bagless vacuums are a dirty mess to own and maintain. No vacuum shop owner uses one in their home.


Post# 242344 , Reply# 96   7/27/2013 at 04:13 (2,436 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )        
No vacuum shop owner uses one in their home.

thekirbylover's profile picture
well there are 2 people in who commented on this thread who are vacuum shop owners who use dysons

Post# 242363 , Reply# 97   7/27/2013 at 09:49 (2,436 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
I own a Vacuum shop and not only do I use dyson vacuums at home, I also sell them and am very proud of that fact, I think they are awesome, They clean fantastically. Recently when we did renovations on our house the builder lifted up a carpet in a heavy walked in area. His question to my wife was what vacuum do we use as he has never lifted up a carpet and not found sand under it before. He bought a dyson from us the next day.
I even owned a dyson when I worked for there competition.

I believe in the product and you would never convice me that a Kirby is better than a dyson. I own many Kirby's just by the way.

In my house, a normal household with cats dogs, Two young sons you cannot beat the user friendliness of a dyson. when I get home from work at 7 pm My wife is cooking supper and I get to cleaning. I love my vintage vacuum collection but It would take me hours to clean my house with any one of them.
Much like a Vintage car collector I have my "toys " the ones that appeal to my collector side but then I have my workhorse, a dyson which gets used like it would in any other home. I tried some years back to use a Kirby sentria to do a normal clean of my house after 2 hours I was fed up with having to keep dissembling the machine to switch between carpets and hardfloors and furniture.

Now on to the actual topic. Tom is right the average consumer finds a Kirby to heavy to cumbersome, They will find the same thing with any direct air upright vacuum which is why the convertible will never see the light of day again. Just look at the number of Kirby's for sale on ebay, hardly used, Customers buy into the salesman's speech but as soon as they try it themselves they hate it.

I have said it before asking a question like which is better Kirby or dyson is basically just wanting to create drama. Its like asking which is better BMW or Mercedes on a car forum you are just going to get fights.

There seems to be a misguided view that just because we like vintage vacuums and we think they were better every one else will too. If consumers wanted a Hoover convertible trust me Hoover would be making it.

Put it this way, Would you trade in your comfortable Pick up truck with air conditioning , heated seats, power steering airbags abs brakes powerful yet efficient engine for a 1930 Model a ford pick up ? Sure it would look cool but that coolness would wear off when it kept overheating in traffic and you froze to death inside because theirs no heater and you got 2 miles to a gallon ( exaggerated but hopefully you get my point )At the end of the day company's produce what consumers want, In 40 years time people on this forum will be going oh how I wish they still made vacuums like they did in 2013.


Post# 242381 , Reply# 98   7/27/2013 at 11:53 (2,436 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Its no longer about trust but about making money.

sebo_fan's profile picture
Im going to use the words that Turbo500/Chris reiterates in another thread, here.

"...As collectors, over time, we all of course find out own preferences in things purely through using a shed load of different vacuums. A general consumer doesn't give a flying fig about brush rolls and motor noise and other things mentioned. A general consumer does not always enjoy vacuuming..."

Consumers aren't demanding for bagless vacuums either - its what the brands have coerced consumers into buying - same with food processors that years ago you could never place the same jug on the same motor where the main larger wide bowl goes for shredding cheese etc. As buyers we are made to feel that we have is insufficient and outdated - it goes with every kind of appliance, not just with vacuums. It's just that more so with floorcare brands who have now tapped into China as a resource that bagless vacuums and appliances are cheaper to produce than going "in-house" and creating an entirely new vacuum from the ground up. Oh yes, the U.S have superb in-house independent brands that offer a ton of bagged vacuums - but we in the UK have only had Kirby and Oreck from the U.S - we're not lucky enough to have Riccar and other brands.

In the UK, the major brands other than SEBO and Miele offer bagless and bagged vacuums, even if the bagged vacuums in terms of variety have fallen by the wayside. Brands no longer offer brand loyalty; that is clear from the lack of bagged vacuums with a variety of styles and more to do with trying to outdo the next rival by offering more flexible cyclonic bagless vacuums, not just by the look but by heaping free tools on etc as extra incentives or making outlandish claims such as "best selling," a sales phrase that Hoover Europe have continually promoted with their bagged Purepower upright.

The irony is that most consumers in the UK at least will keep buying Hoover's heavy and horrid Purepower upright because they will want the brand's past reputation in the present. They have no interest in a brush roll design, or how the dust is captured, or even the design process of the vacuum in general. Those after modern bagless design will try for Dyson if they can afford it and similarly, those captured by Kirby's selling skills for their uprights will also go for the Kirby if they can afford it. Those who can't afford it have plenty of brands and offerings to choose from.

End of the day, consumers aren't really being considered anymore - the aim from the brands is to make money and in the quickest way possible.

I'm thankful that Kirby still exists as a way of offering an alternative to the bagless army, though. We should be grateful enough that not every brand sells bagless cyclonic vacs exclusively.




Post# 242405 , Reply# 99   7/27/2013 at 13:07 (2,436 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        
...

kirbymodel2c's profile picture
Hi,

As I've always said and found Kirby make a far better machine, In regards to performance,quality, reliability and versatility. And with me being a repairer as well as a collector there is no way I would buy a Dyson or any "bagless vac" for myself or for any of my family & friends. Esp as they seem to be getting flimsier and with what you see them coming in for repair for. I'll try to stop now or I'll appear to be brand bashing which some people seem to do freely. Other vac shop owners I've spoke to would not buy a Dyson for themselves to use at home or in their work shops. In fact all the ones I've spoke to have bagged vacs. But that's another "Vs" thread that stirs up drama.

But again like everyone's opinion which fall both sides of the debate. I've got my own which I've expressed. I've never been a fan of the "This Vs That" debate as they can get ugly very quickly.
Not that people should not share their opinions. But as I've said when two sides have two passionate views things can turn sour quick.

Good job there's no which is the best religion or country thread....lol.

James:o)


Post# 242685 , Reply# 100   7/28/2013 at 22:22 (2,435 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Wichita, KS)        
Amazing quote:

kirbysthebest's profile picture
"Recently when we did renovations on our house the builder lifted up a carpet in a heavy walked in area. His question to my wife was what vacuum do we use as he has never lifted up a carpet and not found sand under it before."

Bears a remarkable resemblance to the story I posted on 7/24 on the "aggressive brushroll" thread.
"I have, however, had someone once ask what kind of vacuum my mother had.
She was having carpeting replaced and after pulling up the carpet in the living area the man asked "Do you mind me asking what kind of vacuum cleaner you have?"
"Kirby" my mother answered.
"I thought so, there is no dirt under the carpet." "The only time I find this in a home is when they have a Kirby."

This by-the-way happened 30 years ago and the installer was Star Lumber & Carpet. and the Primitive vacuum a that time was a Kirby Tradition.


Could it be that both machines are good, or just that when a plagiarizer likes a story so well, he forgets which site he took it from, and re-posts on the same site ?


Post# 242695 , Reply# 101   7/29/2013 at 01:20 (2,434 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Gareth ...

nycwriter's profile picture
"If consumers wanted a Hoover convertible trust me Hoover would be making it."

Not necessarily. Once companies become big enough, what the consumer *wants* comes secondary to how much they can sell before customers simply stop buying it. And if the competition is doing the same thing, you've essentially blocked out an entire industry in which consumer demand has any effect on what they produce.

Case in point: network television news. I've been working in it for more than two decades, and I hear the same refrain from executives when we complain about doing bullshit "celbritainment" news over real and substantive news. I have yet to have anyone tell me they want to hear MORE news about Kim Kardashian and her bastard child. And yet, such pablum is all we feed to the viewing public. Why? "Because our ratings are up!" Well, not exactly. Maybe compared to the other news outlets shoveling THEIR share of pablum into the American psyche. But as an industry, we have lost more than 50% of our viewership since the '80s. But ... we're still making money, because people watch the ads and buy stuff. Why? Because as an industry, that's all we're giving them. So they have no choice but to consume it.

*****

"Put it this way, Would you trade in your comfortable Pick up truck with air conditioning , heated seats, power steering airbags abs brakes powerful yet efficient engine for a 1930 Model a ford pick up ? Sure it would look cool but that coolness would wear off when it kept overheating in traffic and you froze to death inside because theirs no heater and you got 2 miles to a gallon."

Bad example. I know plenty of construction workers who absolutely WOULD trade in their "luxury" trucks for something cheaper and more utilitarian. A huge complaint is that the only thing available these days in a truck is a tricked-out Ford F-150 for $60K, when all you really need is a stripped-down model with vinyl seats, vinyl floors -- something you can jump into with your muddy boots and just GO -- for half that price. But those "truck" trucks are simply not available anymore. So they buy the tricked-out trucks. Why? Because that's all that's on the market.


Post# 242748 , Reply# 102   7/29/2013 at 07:37 (2,434 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
HI Harley
Please be so kind as to keep your remarks to yourself, I had not read your post about carpet. We have been renovating our house for some time now, Bit by bit. I actually posted something similar at the top of this thread from when we started to replace carpets, that was 440 days ago. Long before your post.

One of the reasons I stopped coming on this site some time back was nasty backhanded comments like that. Lets keep them our ourselves and enjoy the thread.


Post# 242749 , Reply# 103   7/29/2013 at 07:52 (2,434 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Matt

I agree with you to a point, BUT its not the company's who deide but the retailers. Most people have no idea how manufacturers are held to ransom by big box stores. If there buyer doesn't not like the product then they don't but. Its amazing how far manufacturers will go to keep the buyers of these Huge stores happy.

As for the pickup truck, Yes contractors sure but that's not what I said , am talking about you yourself, average JOE who buys a pick up truck. Out of interest Here in SA we have those bare bones pick up trucks as well as top of the line pick up trucks, Builders and contractors here always drive the top of the line truck , there staff drive the bare bones ones NOT OUT OF CHOICE :)


Post# 242757 , Reply# 104   7/29/2013 at 08:43 (2,434 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Wichita, KS)        
Gareth

kirbysthebest's profile picture
Wasn't back handed, and wasn't meant to be.
I said it right out and called it as I saw it.

As for which vacuum is best? The one that you use, are comfortable with, and serves your needs. Then it is the best for you.


Post# 242760 , Reply# 105   7/29/2013 at 08:49 (2,434 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Cool glad its sorted, I only read your post in the other thread now after seeing your post above, See my reply there:)

Post# 242780 , Reply# 106   7/29/2013 at 13:07 (2,434 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Gareth ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Totally agree with you on the big box stores.

BUT ... stores like Walmart DO have an agenda. Walmart is SO big that they can (and do) dictate what the consumers will buy, rather than the other way around.

Case in point are books. We are now at the point where if Walmart doesn't like a particular author -- or even a particular passage in an author's book -- it will pressure publishers (even big publishers like Simon & Schuster). Is this because of public demand or what it thinks its customers want? HELL NO. They know full well that in MOST of their markets they're the ONLY game in town, and they can and will dictate what they feel is "best" for the consumer.

It's downright disgusting. It's essentially free market capitalism turned rancid.


Post# 242786 , Reply# 107   7/29/2013 at 13:38 (2,434 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Matt

Yes its true, and I have to say I have found that too. Case in point In SA especially in Cape Town cylinder vacuums rule, a Company Like Electrolux has 10 cylinder vacuums spread across Electrolux and AEG but only 2 uprights. Electrolux are the market leaders in quantity of sales. The stores will tell them that uprights do not sell and that cylinders do. My point has always been if you walk into a shop and 90% of the vacuums are cylinders rule of thumb says you will buy a cylinder. If they had 90% uprights and only one or two cylinders you would buy an upright.

Interestingly in my shop because I stock more uprights I sell more uprights than cylinder vacuums

I will admit if you walked into walmart and the majority of the vacuums on sale were Convertible's and Domestic Sanitaires you would probably walk out with one.

I remember when I worked for one appliance company I watched grown men , heads of their respective industry beg and grovel for a Buyer from a certain large chain store.

Its amazing to see how the mass market can be influenced by one person the Buyer, and it only takes one buyer to start a trend because when one store has it all the others will follow.

So there is a challenge, One of you guys needs to become the buyer for walmart, Then tell hoover that the Convertible needs to come back :)



Post# 242799 , Reply# 108   7/29/2013 at 16:24 (2,434 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
It really is true!

nycwriter's profile picture
Remember the movie "The Devil Wears Prada"?

Meryl Streep dressed down that dumpy girl, essentially telling her the entire world was wearing clothes that were decided on by those five people in her office.

SO. VERY. TRUE.



Post# 243158 , Reply# 109   7/31/2013 at 16:43 (2,432 days old) by kirbyfan99 ()        

Kirby is best, pure and simple!

Post# 243179 , Reply# 110   7/31/2013 at 20:02 (2,432 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        
Kirby is best, pure and simple! 

alexhoovers94's profile picture
No dear, that is HOOVER, obvious really.

Haha :p


Post# 243183 , Reply# 111   7/31/2013 at 20:27 (2,432 days old) by FantomFan (Rochester, New York)        
Kirby

fantomfan's profile picture
Yes, I have tried dysons, and I must say My dyson dc07 isn't that horrible. it does have great suction, and washable filters, but carpet performance is only "average".
No offense to dyson lovers, but I don't think these two machines can really be compared. It's comparing a plastic thing made in Malaysia to a metal machine made in the U.S. They are both very different, and I respect dyson lovers, but Kirby IS my vote on this one. I don't think any dyson could outclean the newest kirbys.

Something interesting that I guess Mr. Dyson didn't catch in his book, "Against the Odds", he said the fantom thunder was quote, a "pretty crummy machine", and was "plagued by horribly clumsy styling". He also said after this that the lightning was "really no better". This is odd because the lightning's body was nearly identical to the dyson dc02, and he WAS the one who designed the commercial Johnson vectron, which later became the fantom, and fantom thunder. I guess he didn't know that someone who would read his book would realize this mistake.


Post# 243872 , Reply# 112   8/5/2013 at 16:45 (2,427 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Actually no, not quite!

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well bear in mind that Dyson wrote that book in 1997 in its first publication date and the way Iona reacted with their decisions to build what Dyson original envisaged was not met well with the board directors - to quote from Tom Gasko:


",,,In 1989, James Dyson and Iona Appliances of Canada, reached a licensing deal so that Iona could make and sell a line of commercial dual cyclonic upright vacuums, called "Vectron," through Johnson Wax. As James Dyson was the patent holder for dual cyclonic cleaners, this was a mutually beneficial deal for both parties.

Johnson Wax would pull out of the commercial vacuum cleaner market in 1991, leaving Iona free to rebadge the cleaners as "Fantom." A television infomercial was created in 1993, proving very successful. However, the filtration of the dual cyclonic upright (which at that time did NOT include a Hepa exhaust filter) was not the greatest. Iona would add the Hepa filter in 1994 as an option. This option was actually included with the machine – consumers were made to think they were getting a special deal if they bought now. In 1995, Iona would add a title to their cleaner, calling it the Thunder.

In 1996, Fantom released the Fury – a smaller cleaner with a smaller motor. The Fury found great success through the television infomercial specially prepared for it, while the Thunder model remained popular for larger homes. While the Thunder model was designed as a heavy duty cleaner (remember it was designed originally for commercial use), the Fury model was designed to meet a lower price point. This is where the first problems started to appear.

Pulling the air through multiple levels of high efficiency cyclones is not easy for a motor to do. Iona (which was renamed Fantom Technologies) used a far weaker motor in the Fury than in the Thunder – resulting in many failures. The handle release pedal on the Fury was a weaker and more break-prone than on the Thunder as well. Nor did the Fury have the excellent carpet cleaning ability of the Thunder. The Fury was, however, a large seller for Iona, due in part to the light weight as well as the lower price (as compared with the Thunder model).

In 1998, James Dyson released the Canister model (the Dyson DC02) to Iona, for them to remake with an electric power nozzle – which Iona would call the Fantom Lightning. At a price point of $329, the Lightning sold like hotcakes. But a poor handle release pedal on the power nozzle, as well as a poor wand and hose design, meant lots of warranty repairs for Fantom. James Dyson had also invented "MEMA" filters (washable filter, resulting in Maximum Efficiency - Maximum Airflow). Fantom Technologies did not want the washable high efficiency filters on their cleaner as they were in the business of selling Hepa filters...n 2001, James Dyson did NOT renew the license deal with Fantom Technologies. Fantom could not make a dual cyclonic cleaner (James held the patents.) so Fantom cheapened the cleaner yet again, calling it the Crosswinds and utilizing a single cyclone – which clogged immediately and was a miserable failure in the market place..."

Note, Dyson allowed Iona to remake the designs - he did not design the vacuums that Iona put out to sell.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK


Post# 244176 , Reply# 113   8/6/2013 at 22:03 (2,426 days old) by rainbowjoel (Dexter NM)        

Kirby! Hoover windtunnel is much user friendly than Dyson using on hose!

Post# 244178 , Reply# 114   8/6/2013 at 22:16 (2,426 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        
In my opinion...

alexhoovers94's profile picture
The Hoover Vortex was a much better cleaner than the Dyson DC01 in the case that it was easier to empty and clean the shroud as it twisted right off, cleaned better, was easier to use the tools, had a more comfortable multi-grip handle and had lifetime washable filters. I swear Dyson took Hoover to court over it because he was pissed off that Hoover made a better machine than him...What a surprise!

Alex.


Post# 244193 , Reply# 115   8/7/2013 at 01:40 (2,425 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
Just wanted to put-in:

super-sweeper's profile picture

I LOVE my Fantom Thunder! In my opinion, It's on of the best (If not the best) Cyclonic Bagless uprights, Or at least to me!

Owning Currently The Thunder, 2 Furies and a Broken Cyclone XT, I can say that, In my opinion, The Thunder is a complete dirt dominating beast, The Fury, While with a weaker suction and under-powered motor, This cleaner still appears to perform well in my home. I can't speak much for the Cyclone XT, though, Need to look into that one!

 

In the past, I performed a "Dyson V. Fantom" Test, In which the Fantoms proved superior. However, This was quite some time ago, I'll be looking into re-performing this experiment with the Thunder, Fury, DC-17 And the DC-07, This time using the 12-Amp fury instead of the 10.

 

I'll be back with the test results soon,

-Alex.


Post# 244384 , Reply# 116   8/8/2013 at 01:21 (2,424 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        

cb123's profile picture
Now, I'll just pick one of my oldest electric vacuums - the direct suction 1925 Vacuette Electric - not to mention any of my newer Kirby's. I would say It preforms remarkable well considering it's 88 years old, and still running at a performance level which exceeds or rivals even most modern vacuums that I've used from Kenmore's to Eureka's. Which of course speaks well of this particular model. The suction on this machine is so strong that it will actually lift the large Persian area rug that have - all minding you with heavy furniture on it. It does this without even tearing up the rugs delicate tassels. It's truly amazing what the simple advent of direct suction can do, and all tied with the rugged longevity of a Kirby still astonishes me! My vote is for Kirby, for I found no other with the exception of Eureka's from that period which can deep clean a rug so completely of salt, dirt, broke glass, nails, knives, sharp sticks, and hand grenades, or whatever you can dream up to throw on a rug. I'm telling this machine is bullet proof, and guaranteed to out live you! What more can you ask for.

Post# 244391 , Reply# 117   8/8/2013 at 01:44 (2,424 days old) by kenkart ()        
I so agree!

My 510 Kirby will pick a throw rug up off the floor! Dysons have great suction, but it is not properly applied ,plus it is flimsy plastic.

Post# 244937 , Reply# 118   8/9/2013 at 22:32 (2,423 days old) by TASE (Colorado)        

tase's profile picture
When someone asks me what vacuum I recommend, I tell them "one you will use."

If you will vacuum with a Dyson? Fine. If you will vacuum with a Dirt Devil Feather Lite? Go for it. You do need to maintain your carpet.

HOWEVER...

I have used a lot of Dysons and I just fine them to be another $150 Dirt Devil. In fact, I think that some of my Dirt Devils clean better than the Dysons I've used.

My family has always been raised in a "Kirby house." We just have. Our parents would take my grandmother's Heritage over to clean our carpet. They finally ended up buying a GSix new.

My daily driver is a Kirby Sentria I bought for less than $40. I find Kirbys to be the better of the two vacuums.

The Dyson vacuums have always had this annoying whine while the Kirbys have always had a rather nice, cleaning sound.

My sister has owned a Dyson DC07 and a Shark Rotator Lift-Away Professional. After she "cleaned" her apartment with both I brought over my Kirby. In some places you could visibly see where the Dyson missed. The Dyson is very well maintained and it just stunned my sister to see her carpet go from a tan color to white.


Post# 244948 , Reply# 119   8/10/2013 at 00:17 (2,422 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        

cb123's profile picture
You preach...you preach brother! Kirby goes the distance!

Post# 279243 , Reply# 120   5/4/2014 at 11:01 (2,155 days old) by kirbyds50 ()        
Kirby, hands down

I am still pretty new to the whole vacuum thing, but, I have a Kirby Sanitronic 7 my grandmother bought new in the early 60s, it's 50 years old and works better than any of the plastic machines they make now. Before my Dad's passing, he used a Dyson for a few years and while the machine worked good at first, he only had it a few months before it started causing him problems. My fiancé has it now and while she seems to love it, my Kirby picks up the dog hair way better than the Dyson does. We have a Siberian Husky, 2 Labradors, and 1 Pitbull so there is a variety of dog hair in the carpet and my Kirby picks it all up in the first pass, sometimes takes 2 passes if I vacuum under the bed where the hair has had a chance to accumulate longer. The Dyson usually clogs in those areas, but, for light tasks, the Dyson does alright. But, we save the real jobs for the tried and true Kirby. People have always told me that Kirby is THE vacuum to own if you have pets and I wholly agree!

Soon, I will be adding a Dual 80 to the family so it's pretty safe to say I will always be a Kirby fan! This one will have most of the attachments coming with it too which I can't wait to try out as my 7 doesn't have any attachments.


Post# 279267 , Reply# 121   5/4/2014 at 14:07 (2,155 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
My vote is on sebo. As far as out and out cleaning goes, I think my felix gives all the dysons a massive run for their money in terms of performance, usability, versatility, refinement and durability. They are so much easier to clean and repair, parts are weirdly less expensive and I have never used a vacuum which is even half as good as cleaning my plush pile carpets as my felix.

Kirby I appreciate are the Rollys Royce of vacuums in terms of style and performance but they are not as versatile and slightly harder to use in terms of attachments, and they are excessively expensive.

Dyson are a huge rip off. Over produced, over marketed, flimsy and cheaply made, near fashion icons. Owning a dyson gives you the same bragging rights as owning an iPhone use to.


Post# 279280 , Reply# 122   5/4/2014 at 16:40 (2,155 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

Only the new models are excessively expensive, the older models are better in nearly every way compared to the MacGyver models!


Post# 279492 , Reply# 123   5/6/2014 at 04:43 (2,153 days old) by ornery (Northeast Ohio)        
Commercial Use?

ornery's profile picture
Which of these two big vac names is found more often in commercial environments?

Post# 279508 , Reply# 124   5/6/2014 at 09:08 (2,153 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        
Why Kirby of course!!!

sptyks's profile picture

Can you imagine how long any Dyson would last in a commercial environment? 


Post# 279525 , Reply# 125   5/6/2014 at 11:04 (2,153 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well of course SEBO is also a big name, well known commercial name but that's not the question. I think the mere mention of a Dyson solely puts it into domestic use only.

Post# 279645 , Reply# 126   5/7/2014 at 03:09 (2,152 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Yes,have seen Dysons used commercially-they get beat up,broken,and dirty fast-next stop---the DUMPSTER!!!Sebos last so much longer for commercial use-after all--they were designed for that type of service.The Sebo is a more sturdy machine than a Dyson-and filters dirt SO MUCH better!!!-and to top it off easier to service,and remove clogs.
Have seen Kirbys in commercial use,too-they will hold up and do better than Dyson.Dyson is really a HOME type machine.You should see a Dyson that tried to clean up after a drywall job!!!It ended up in the vac shops dumpster-the customer didn't want it serviced after they learned how much to do it!


Post# 279735 , Reply# 127   5/8/2014 at 02:22 (2,151 days old) by vacuumssuck213 ()        
Dyson Kirby suction vs aggitation.

While I argee with a vast majority Kirby is by far better quality. And it has suction power being a direct air cleaner. I learned a test to help figure out suction power take your vacuum and put it to the end of a rug lift up the vac of the rug lifts it has good suction if not then there's a problem. I had a Dyson dc07 but never had the chance to try this. However when it came down to aggitation of the brush roll I found the Dyson was second only to my g6 it out wit my heritage and classic. So Dyson or Kirby. The age old question. What's the"best " vacuum there is no answer everyone loves a certain vacuum for one reason or another. I prefer Kirby or any direct air machine older the better have yet to find a new vacuum with direct air.

Post# 279739 , Reply# 128   5/8/2014 at 03:49 (2,151 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I think having a Kirby would be kinder to carpets - Dyson uprights, not all of them, but some have a tendency to rip up carpets in my experience.

Post# 279742 , Reply# 129   5/8/2014 at 06:22 (2,151 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Thought some carpet makers-your warrantee on the carpet was VOIDED if you used a Dyson on it?

Post# 290125 , Reply# 130   7/24/2014 at 22:41 (2,074 days old) by kirbyds50 ()        

My Dual 80 vs my wife's Dyson DC25.



45 years old and my ole Kirby still owns the rugs in the house!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO kirbyds50's LINK


Post# 290186 , Reply# 131   7/25/2014 at 11:16 (2,073 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The thing is at the end of the day, we can keep going backwards and forwards with the Kirby Vs Dyson thing but it isn't any different to testing an old Hoover upright against a new one. Especially when you see most of the current Tat, Hoover in the UK are selling.

Id happily take an old Hoover Junior or Senior any day over any one of Hoover's Purepower uprights. I've owned a few Purepower uprights - they're just not as nice to use, or half the time as efficient in terms of durability and these days current models appear to lack the agitator brush style that the PP used to have.


Post# 290194 , Reply# 132   7/25/2014 at 13:02 (2,073 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

If that carpet institute is giving a Sanitaire upright a high rating they are not being honest. We have a brand spanking new one in the office. Barely used, the bag is almost empty. But when some summer interns made a mess shredding a huge pile of old documents, the Sanitaire clogged and couldn't get the small particles out of the carpet. We sweet talked one of the building cleaning staff to vacuum the mess up for us. A few passes with her battered Windsor S12, same basic animal as a Sebo upright, and the mess was gone. That Sanitaire thing is pretty much useless.

Post# 290235 , Reply# 133   7/25/2014 at 18:13 (2,073 days old) by portapower ()        

Dyson-- nothing but cheap flimsy plastic destined for the junk yard in a couple of years.
Kirbys-- still going strong after more than 60 years.
Nuff said.


Post# 290242 , Reply# 134   7/25/2014 at 19:38 (2,073 days old) by kirbyds50 ()        

^^ Try a hundred! The Kirby company has stood the test of time for a very good reason. I doubt Dyson will still be around in 100 years time.

Post# 290253 , Reply# 135   7/25/2014 at 21:06 (2,073 days old) by VacuumSalesman (Berlin Heights)        
This is What a Website Says

Test #1 - Best Vacuum Not to CLOG
Clogs are caused by small suction tubes and corners. So let's get right to it and take some pictures of the Kirby suction tubes and the Dyson tubes. Below is a picture of a Dyson tube next to a Kirby tube.
Picture of a Dyson Tube next to Kirby Tube, Kirby vs Dyson, Kirby or Dyson
As you can see from the pictures, the Kirby suction tube is almost twice the size as the Dyson one. The Dyson one also has a sharp corner in some of its tubing, which clogs easier and loses suction.
Fact - The very first used Dyson we received as a trade in was clogged.
Fact - If you read other reviews on the internet, they say people have had a problem with the Dyson clogging with long pet hair.
Fact - There is no vacuum that is impossible to clog. However, we have seen thousands of Kirbys and from normal vacuuming conditions have never seen a Kirby clog. For example, I have seen a Kirby clogged with a tooth brush, a rope, and a shirt. In other words, under normal vacuum conditions I have never seen a Kirby clog. The Dyson that came in clogged just had dirt and pet hair in it.
When was the last time you saw a Dyson commercial where they said "Guaranteed not to clog?" Also on the Dyson, the suction tubes are made to be taken off. If it never clogs, why are they made to be taken apart?
Winner of the Test #1 Best Vacuum Not to Clog - KIRBY VACUUM Buy Kirby Vacuums
Test #2 - Most Airflow and Vacuum Power
This is one of the most important tests--after all, no matter how cool a vacuum looks, we buy a vacuum to pick up the dirt. Suction power is very important. Isn't that the reason we buy a vacuum, to vacuum up all the dirt?

Kirby Motor Size = 7 amps
Dyson Motor Size = 12 amps

For this test, we are going to use an Airflow Indicator meter tool made by Baird. This tool is desiged to test power and airflow (see picture below).

On the tool is the saying "You have to move the air in order to move the dirt." This tool is a tube with a ball attached to a spring. It has a rating of 0 to 10. You hook it up to a vacuum, then turn on the vacuum to test vacuum power and airflow. The higher the suction, the further up the scale the the meter will read. 0 is really bad and 10 is amazing suction. So we will hook up the hose to the Kirby vacuum and we will test it. We will also test it on the hose for a Dyson vacuum. For our first test, we will test the power by hooking it up to the hose. Each hose it tested at the same length away from the vacuum.
After we tested the Dyson, the Suction Meter read = 1 out of 10 (see picture)
Dyson Vacuum
After we tested the Kirby, the Suction Meter read = 7 out of 10 (see picture)
Kirby Vacuum
Now we are going to test the power hooked up to the vacuum itself. You are about to learn a new principle here. It's a fact that the longer the hose the more suction you lose. That's why uprights are usually more powerful than canisters and why central vacuums in huge homes (a 100 feet of wall tubing to get to the central vacuum) can be the weakest vacuums of all.
Hooked up to the vacuum on the Dyson, the Power Meter read = 2.8 out of 10 (see picture)
Dyson Power Meter Reading
On the Kirby, it read = 10 out of 10 (see picture)
Kirby Power Meter Reading
Fact - The motor size in amps does not mean a vacuum is more powerful.
Fact - The Kirby had over 3 times the power and airflow as the Dyson when testing it with the airflow meter.
The winner of Test #2 The Most Airflow and Vacuum Power - KIRBY VACUUM Buy Kirby Vacuums
Test #3 - Most Suction When Full of Dirt
The other Dyson promise is that it is "Guaranteed not to lose airflow as the vacuum fills up with dirt." Their "not clogging" guarantee bombed, so let's test out this guarantee.
Dyson - So we grabbed 3 Dysons. One was our tester Dyson that was cleaned and had no dirt in it, one was 1/3 full of dirt, and one was three quarters full of dirt.
On the Power Meter, they all pulled the same = 2.8
Kirby - We grabbed a full Kirby bag and put it inside our Kirby. We tested it with the full bag and the Power Meter read a 10 out of 10 (the meter only goes to 10). So then with the full bag still in it, I hooked up the 9 foot hose to the vacuum and tested it. The Power Meter read = a 5.9. So, we then tried it with the hose attached and an empty bag. The Kirby had a 7.0 and with a full bag it read a 5.9.
Fact - James Dyson is correct--the Dyson did not lose power as it filled with dirt.
Fact - As a vacuum bag fills up, airflow and power do decrease.
Fact - Even with a full bag, the Kirby had over DOUBLE the airflow and power as the Dyson as measured by our Air Flow Meter.
Fact - Dyson claims to be the first vacuum not to lose suction as it fills with dirt. This is not true. I can personally think of 5 other vacuums that don't lose suction. The Rainbow vacuum for example uses water to filter and does not lose suction. The Rainbow has been around for nearly a century.
Winner of Test #3 Most Suction When Full of Dirt - KIRBY VACUUM Buy Kirby Vacuums
Test #4 - Vacuums Up Better
This is really starting to get fun. This is the most important test. Which vacuum actually vacuums up the most dirt. What I did here was I went next door to the Carpet Store and they were nice enough to give me a large piece of brand new carpet (so our results would not be tainted). I then took a piece of tape and marked off the carpet. On the left side of the tape we are going to vacuum with the Dyson and on the right side of the tape we are going to vacuum with the Kirby.
Then I took 2 cups, went outside and filled them up with normal dirt and sand--just like would be tracked into your house. I then measured the 2 cups (see picture) so they had the exact amount of dirt in them - 1 pound and .2 of one ounce in each cup. I then poured the dirt onto each side of the carpet and worked it into the carpet with my fingers.
kirby vs dyson dirt test, kirby or dyson vacuum review
I weighed the dirt that is now in the carpet and now I am going to weigh the dirt that comes out of the carpet. Now the Kirby is not bagless, so we have to use tester filter pads to show the dirt that is picked up. I am afraid this test was a little harder on the Kirby because every time I changed the pads (lots of times) dust would escape from the tester. To be fair, after I put the Kirby tester on the Kirby, I tested the power again with the hose. With the tester on, it read a 6.5 on the airflow meter, while it had read a 7 when the bag was on (bag has more surface area for air to push through). So because of those 2 things, the Kirby was at a small disadvantage. I knew that we were not going to get up all the dirt because in each vacuum a small part of it would stick to the dirt chamber and fans, etc., in each of the 2 vacuums. So this was a very fair test. Before I started the test, I decided that I would take the vacuum that pulled the most dirt up and vacuum another 50 strokes in the vacuum's area that pulled the least dirt.
Dyson Results - We put the dirt down and vacuumed 50 strokes on its side. We put 1 lb of dirt down and were able to pick up 6.5 ozs of dirt from the Dyson vacuum, or 40% of the dirt was picked up.
Kirby Results - We put the dirt down and vacuumed 50 strokes on its side. We put 1 lb of dirt down and (after subtracting the dirt meter filter pads weight) were able to pick up 12.1 ozs of dirt from the Kirby, or 75% of the dirt was picked up.
Then, since the Dyson picked up the least amount of dirt and it was the loser, we vacuumed in the Dyson's area with the Kirby. The picture below shows how much dirt and sand that we pulled out of the Dyson's side with the Kirby. I was able to pull out 44 pads of dirt that the Dyson left behind. In fact, I was still pulling out dirt when I ran out of pads (see picture). I wish you could have seen this in person. I had no idea that the Kirby would pick up that much extra dirt left behind by the Dyson. These pads where not just dusty, but jam packed full of dirt and sand (see picture). Looking at the dirt sample pulled from each vacuum, the Dyson really did not pick up much sand at all.
kirby vs dyson dirt test, kirby or dyson vacuum review kirby vs dyson dirt test, kirby or dyson vacuum review
Fact - Sand ruins carpet. When it gets down deep into the carpet, its sharp jagged edges cut the carpet fibers when people walk on your carpet. That's what causes "trails" in your carpet. High traffic areas get sand tracked on them from people coming in from outside, then if the vacuum does not have the power to pick up the sand, the brushroll grinds it deep in the carpet. Then when people walk on the carpet, it cuts the carpet fibers. The next time you vacuum, the carpet fiber gets vacuumed up. Pretty soon the "high traffic" area has less carpet fibers and starts lying down, the "trail" appears, and you have to buy new carpet. If you have a vacuum that can pick up the sand and a deep cleaner, you can extend your carpet by years and save thousands of dollars.
Winner of Test #4 Vacuums Up Better - KIRBY VACUUMS Buy Kirby Vacuums
Test #5 - Durability
The Kirby is made of a light weight metal and is one of the most durable vacuums made. In fact, Kirby home care systems are rated #1 in reliability by a popular consumer products magazine. We have noticed an average life span of 25 years for the Kirby vacuum.
The Dyson vacuum is made from a low-grade plastic. Just because a vacuum is made from plastic does not necessarily mean that it is not durable. A perfect example of this is the Aerus Vacuum (used to be Electrolux). When the Electrolux salesman was showing you the vacuum, they used to lay down the vacuum and jump on it with all their weight! Of course, they did not break. The Dyson is so new that we don't have a durability time to work with at this time.
I also did the following test, but the results were inconclusive because the Hydraulic Press only measured in increments of 500 lbs.
With this test, I tested the breaking point of both Kirby and Dyson heads. We have a Hydraulic Press with a stress gauge that tells you how much pressure something endures before it breaks. The problem with it is that it only gauges it in 500 lb. increments.
So, I performed the test on the Dyson first. When I was pumping down the press with the hand handle,there was hardly any resistance. It was like a hot knife through butter. The plastic started bending and then it broke through. The problem (and the reason I don't like this test) was it did not even register on the guage. It could have broken at 100 lbs of pressure or 499 lbs of pressure.
Then I performed the test on the Kirby. Again, its metal started bending without even registering on the gauge (I wish I had a more accurate gauge). However, it then started registering and right before it broke it got to about 1000 lbs!
Because of the gauge problem with the above test I am not going to count it in this contest to determine the winner.
Fact - When packing the Kirby Vacuum for shipping, we wrap it in a half an inch of bubble wrap with no breakage.
Fact - When packing the Dyson Vacuum for shipping, to avoid breakage we have to pack it in 3 inches of bubble wrap. Because of this fact, we have to use an extra large box to hold the Dyson and all the extra bubble they require. Because ground shipping is now based on dimensional weights (box size vs. actual weight), the Dyson costs more than its heavier counterpart, the Kirby, to ship. Common parts to break in shipping on the Dyson are the head, the handle, and the cord wraps.
So, we can determine our winner based upon our experience with shipping, Consumer Reports, and the Kirby's long life span.
Winner of Test #5 Reliability - KIRBY VACUUM Buy Kirby Vacuums
Test #6 - Weight & Ease of Vacuuming
For the first test on this one I got out our shipping scales and weighed each vacuum. The Kirby weighed 23 lbs, 14 oz. and the Dyson weighed 18 lbs, 10 oz. So the Kirby weighed about 5 lbs more than the Dyson. The Kirby has a carrying handle and the Dyson did not. The carrying handle did make a difference regarding ease of moving the vacuum around. The second test was ease of vacuuming. Both seemed easy to vacuum with, but the Kirby seemed better because of its self-propelled transmission. Unlike other self-propelled vacuums, it was very smooth and I could vacuum with one finger. Most people think the reason Kirby has the self-propelled transmission is because of its weight. That's only partially true. The main reason is the Kirby actually creates a vacuum seal with your carpet, which is then hard to push.
Concerning 'Ease of Vacuuming' we also have to consider how easy it is to use your vacuum's tools. Now the Dyson has on-board tools (very nice) and the Kirby does not. So you have to store your Kirby tools somewhere else (most likely your closet). For Kirby lovers, this is the only complaint I have heard from them. They wish there were an easier way to put on your tools without taking off the power nozzle each time.
So, for this test I timed myself going from vacuum mode to putting on the duster tool (in this example). How long does it take?
The Dyson took 19 seconds for me to go from vacuuming to putting the hose on the on-board duster tool.
The Kirby took me 25 seconds to go from vacuuming, shutting off the vacuum, casually strolling to my pretend closet, grabbing the hose and duster tool, returning to the vacuum, taking off the power nozzle, and putting on the hose and duster tool.
So, accessing the on-board tools was 6 seconds faster on the Dyson than the Kirby.
Regarding the actual ease of vacuuming (could vacuum with one finger), I would say the Kirby was easier. However, including results for carrying weight and use of tools, the Dyson won.
Winner of Test #6 Weight & Ease of Vacuuming - Dyson Buy Dyson Vacuums
Test #7 - Tools and Accessories
Using our Dyson DC14, this model comes with 5 tools (3 of which are on-board). Those tools are:
1. Duster Brush (on-board)
2. Upholstery tool (on-board)
3. Crevice tool (on-board)
4. Floor tool
5. The Animal Turbo tool (standard air turbine-driven upholstery tool with brushroll)
6. Some may come with the Zorb groomer to work the zorb smell good powder into your carpet.
The Kirby has the following standard tools:
1. The tool caddy (can hang on a wall)
2. 2 extension wands
3. Crevice tool with scrubber
4. Floor tool
5. Air Intake Guard
6. Portable Shampooer Cap
7. Massage Cup (sometimes called the pet grooming tool and can be used to remove light bulbs)
8. Inflator tool
9. Duster Brush
10. Upholstery tool
11. Portable Spayer (also called hand held shampooer)
12. Portable Handle
13. Wall and Ceiling Brush
14. Suction Control Grip tool
15. Main Hose
The Kirby also has several additional accessories:
1. The Kirby carpet shampoo system: this is an actual shampooer to keep your carpets washed and clean. I really like the Kirby shampoo because it has a chemical kind of like scotch guard in it that protects your carpets from those same stains from coming back.
2. Floor Care system: this can be used to clean your hard floor surfaces or if you have hardwood floors it can actually be used to buff wax into your wood floors to make them look new. It can also have a floor tool plate that snaps onto the vacuum itself so you can use your Kirby to vacuum your hardwood floor surfaces.
3. Turbo Accessory System: this can be a sander (dust is sucked into the Kirby), Buffer, Scouring (like cleaning tile grout) and Massaging.
4. Zipp Brush: powered upholstery tool that runs off of the Kirby's power and airflow. Most people use it on pet hair, couches, stairs and more.
So, including the Tool Caddy, the Kirby has 15 standard tools. The Dyson has 5 standard tools (I am going to call the floor tool and animal brush standard). The Kirby has a carpet shampooer and 3 other accessory kits you can buy, as well. The Dyson had the Zorb kit.
Winner of Test #7 Tools and Accessories - KIRBY VACUUM Buy Kirby Vacuums
Test #8 - Filtration
Here I would also suggest reading my guide "HEPA Filtration - Fact from Myth" as well as "Best Vacuum For You."
The Kirby vacuum can filter as small as .1 of a micron. To be considered a HEPA filter you have to filter at least .3 of one micron.
I could not find anything on the Dyson website or on the Dyson itself as to what its filtration was. However, by going a google search, people that were selling the washable HEPA filter said it filtered down to .1 of one micron.
So, as far as published 'Filtration,' it is a tie between the two vacuums.
I would also suggest reading my guide "Bags vs Bagless Vacuum Cleaner - Which is best."
I have been a lone voice of warning since the beginning of the 'bagless' craze. Everybody wanted bagless vacuums. My issue with them was when I would get them in used, the vacuum would be covered in dust on the outside, but the HEPA filter would be clean. Doctors were actually recommending bagless vacuums to allergy patients! I felt so badly for those people. The reason that I don't like bagless vacuums is the dirt hits the HEPA filter and looks for the easiest way out. The HEPA filter is hard to get through (tight filtration), so the dirt back-tracks through the system, blows out through the seals in the tubing, and back into the air. That is why I don't like normal bagless vacuums.
Now to Dyson's credit, they have a washable filter located before the dirt goes to the bag chamber (that's good). Then in the bag chamber, most of the heavy dirt falls into the bagless dirt chamber while the rest of the dirt is carried out to hit the last filter. So, most of the dirt never reaches the last filter, but it still has a filter that dirt and air have to push through. That's the good news.
The bad news is that I counted 7 different seals on the Dyson vacuum. I assume there are so many seals so that you can take the vacuum apart if it clogs (I cant think of any other reason). 7 seals is a lot of places for air and dirt to blow out. The other bad news is they are not the tightest seals. The Kirby does have 2 seals outside the bag chamber, but they are very tight.
So, were it not because of all the seals in the Dyson, this would have been a tie.
Winner of Test #8 Filtration - KIRBY VACUUM Buy Kirby Vacuums
Test #9 - Marketing & Cool Factor
The Kirby is not sold in stores or retail. In fact, you can't get a new one except from a authorized Kirby dealer. There are some dealers who take the risk of trying to sell some new ones on eBay or sell to someone else who will sell them on eBay. However, Kirby is usually pretty proactive about finding out who is doing that (against the rules) and shutting them down. So aside from that, if you want to buy a new Kirby with the Kirby warranty you will have to buy from a Kirby salesman directly. He will come to your home and demonstrate the vacuum for you. Usually they will charge from $1300 to $1700 for a new one (from what I have seen). This is why we sell reconditioned Kirbys because it's more affordable ($200s-$800) and legal (we do not sell any brand new Kirbys).
So, a lot of Kirby salepeople are young and a lot are college-aged. They will do a lot to get a sale. Because of that some people have a bad image of Kirby. For example, go to google and type in "Kirby Vacuum" and see what the first page is that comes up. Sometimes there are some bad reviews on salespeople. However, many Kirby salesmen are very proffesional and courteous. Don't lose faith in the vacuum itself due to the distribution chain!
In other words, the Kirby is an awesome product, but its marketing has put a lot of people off.
The Dyson on the other hand, is everywhere. It is in most independent vacuum shops, most big box stores, on the internet and it is even on eBay. If you look on eBay, there are tons of brand new, in-the-box Dysons for sale. Even some of their authorized internet dealers sell on eBay. So, just about everyone has access to buy a Dyson vacuum. Since the Dyson is for sale almost everywhere, it really can't be demonstrated, so James Dyson had to make it visually appealing to get the extra money out of it.
That's one thing we have come to realize here at Great-Vacs is the #1 reason that people buy vacuums is based on looks. Most never admit it, but if it looks good they will buy it. So, think about it. You go to Wal-mart and go to the vacuum aisle. You see about 10 plastic vacuums displayed. You know absolutely nothing about vacuums and no one is there to demonstrate them to you. So, you do one of two things: you either buy the cheapest one or you buy the coolest looking one. Usually what happens is your last vacuum was the cheap one (that only lasted 2 years or so), broke down, and you want a better vacuum. So, you are looking for a better vacuum, then you see the Dyson and it looks cool. You think that what makes a better vacuum is HEPA filtration (that's the best right?) and the higher the amp motor the better the vacuum (not true, as we showed in this guide). So, when James Dyson was building the Dyson I believe he understood this and knew he had to make it visually appealing.
Dyson and marketing. Let's review some of their marketing strategies:
1. "Guaranteed not to clog." As we showed you in this review, it's not the best vacuum for that and there are other vacuums that clog less than the Dyson. However, Dyson was the first one to market it.
2. "The first vacuum cleaner that doesn't lose suction." Again not true, as there were other vacuum cleaners that have done this before the Dyson, but I don't really recall those vacuums really marketing that point.
3. "100 times the force of Gravity..." As this test showed, the Kirby had more power, but "100 times the force of Gravity" sounds amazing.
4. Vacuum is very visually appealing. The Dyson looks really cool and new age.
So, Dyson has done an AWESOME job at marketing. They are geniuses at it. They continue to add models and different Dysons (like the canister Dyson or the light weight Dyson) and make improvements to their image and product.
COOL FACTOR-
A nice buffed out Kirby that looks all chrome is very nice and is very cool. With the newest model of Kirby, they have done a good job of modernizing it. However, the problem with the Kirby is when people look at it in their mind's eye, they think of their grandma's Kirby and think it's the same thing (even though its not).
The Dyson has this new bagless system like no other vacuum. It looks very modern and very new age. It has all these tubes and looks very cool. Plus, most people test suction with their finger or hand (not an accurate test). So, when you turn on the vacuum it actually sounds powerful. You can hear it the power and when you shut off the vacuum it sounds like a turbo shutting off. Also, the suction handle is narrow at the top so when you put your finger on it, it feels like amazing suction.
So on this test there was no contest.
Test # 9 Marketing and Cool Factor - DYSON VACUUM Buy Dyson Vacuums
Test #10 - Suction & Vacuum Seal
Aside from the test vacuuming up the dirt, I think this was the most important test. I saved it until the very last because I had to order some special equipment for this test. For this I used a suction plate and then I attached a set of scales that measure resistance (see picture).
This test actually measures suction. Remember we already tested airflow, so the other test to see how well a vacuum performs is suction. This will determine if the vacuum actually seals down on the carpet and gets the dirt deep down or if the vacuum is essentially a "good sweeper" with some suction.
So, the suction plate represents your carpet. What I did was to put it on the Dyson and Kirby vacuum (shut off the brushroll so it does not knock off the plate) and then when it seals to the powerhead, I am going to put the pull scales on the suction plate and see how many lbs of pulling it takes before the suction plate comes off. The higher the # of lbs to pull off the suction plate, the more suction the vacuum has and the better the 'Deep Cleaner' it is. This tension scale is harder to pull off than you think. I pulled on it as hard as I could and could only get it up to about 35 lbs.
The Dyson vacuum had 1.5 lbs of pressure on it before it came off. I could easily pull off the suction plate by hand, but it had enough power to hold the plate on against gravity. I think one of the main problems with it was again all the suction was on one side of the cleaning head. With no suction on the other side, the vacuum seal and suction were very weak.
The Kirby vacuum had 12 lbs of pressure on it and it was very hard to pull off by hand.
Winner of Test #10 Suction and Vacuum Seal - KIRBY VACUUM Buy Kirby Vacuums
IMPROVEMENTS
Listed below are the improvements I would personally try to make if I were the manufacturer. After doing all these tests, these are the suggestions I would make for improvements.
Kirby -
1. Try to make it 5 lbs lighter.
2. Make it so you can use the hose without taking the head off.
Dyson -
1. Make the suction tubes larger so there is more airflow and less chance of clogging.
2. Get rid of so many seals because if there were less chance of clogging, you would not need to take the vacuum parts apart. Where seals were necessary, I would make the seals tighter and better.
3. Make the vacuum out of a higher grade of plastic (like what Electrolux did).
4. Make suction all the way across the head instead of just on one side. Do this by having the suction tube in the middle of the power nozzle.
5. Improve airflow and power. Partially this would be solved with the bigger tubes. The motor is large enough, so perhaps put larger fans in. I would like to see it pull a 5 on the meter.
If each of the vacuum manufacturers did those things...wow! Then that would be a PERFECT vacuum.
CONCLUSION
1. Winner of the Test #1 Best Vacuum not to Clog = KIRBY VACUUM
The Kirby vacuum had almost twice the size of suction piping (see pictures in test #1). The Dyson tubing at its smallest point measures right at 1 3/8 inches. The Kirby tubing at its smallest point measured 2 1/4 inches--nearly a inch larger.
2. The winner of Test #2 The Most Airflow and Vacuum Power is = KIRBY VACUUM
The Kirby had over 3 times the power and airflow as the Dyson when testing it with the airflow meter.
3. Winner of Test #3 Most Power When Full of Dirt = KIRBY VACUUM
On the dirt meter, the Dyson pulled a 2.8 and the Kirby pulled a 5.9 with a bag full of dirt. The Kirby did lose power when full of dirt (pulled a 7 with an empty bag), but was still almost twice as powerful when full. The Dyson pulled a 2.8 empty and a 2.8 full. So Dyson was right--it did not lose any power as it filled with dirt.
4. Winner of Test #4 Best Cleaner = KIRBY VACUUM
In our dirt test, Kirby dominated. It pulled up almost double the dirt that the Dyson did. The Dyson pulled up 40% of its dirt in this test and the Kirby pulled up 75% of its dirt in the same test.
5. Winner of Test #5 Reliability = KIRBY VACUUM
The Dyson is made of plastic and the Kirby is made of metal. We don't know how long Dysons will last on average, but we have personally seen a 25 year average lifespan with a Kirby. We have to pack the Dysons with much more bubble wrap than Kirbys when shipping to avoid breakage. According to "a leading consumer products magazine," the Kirby ranked #1 in reliability and with the least number of repairs needed. They ranked it based upon 134,000 reader responses and a point system. The lower the points, the more reliable. The Kirby was #1 with only 4 points while the average vacuum they tested got a 10.25. So the Kirby was not only #1, but much more reliable than the average vacuum tested.
6. Winner of Test #6 Weight & Ease of Vacuuming = DYSON VACUUM
The Dyson was a little over 5 lbs lighter than the Kirby when we weighed them on our shipping scales. Ease of vacuuming was easier with the Kirby, but with on-board tools and lower carrying weight, the Dyson won this contest. When we tested how long it took to use the tools it took the Dyson 19 seconds and the Kirby 25 seconds.
7. Winner of Test #7 Tools and Accessories = KIRBY VACUUM
The Kirby won this contest because it had about 3 times the tools and accessories as the Dyson.
8. Winner of Test #8 Filtration = KIRBY VACUUM
Test #8 was very close. Both actually said they had the same filtration: .1 of a micron. However, the concern we had with the Dyson is it had 7 different seals (they were not very tight seals) out of which air and dirt could possibly leak. Kirby had 2 seals, but they were very tight. When "a leading Consumer Products Magazine" tested emissions (filtration), they gave each the same rating.
9. Test # 9 Marketing and Cool Factor = DYSON VACUUM
The Dyson dominated this test. IMHO, Dyson is genius when it comes to marketing. I personally feel that Dyson did not create the best vacuum, but they created a vacuum that would lead us to believe it was the best vacuum. Visually it seems to do a very good job and looks very cool.
10. Winner of Test #10 Suction and Vacuum Seal = KIRBY VACUUM
The Kirby dominated the suction test. The Dyson only had 1.5 lbs of pull before the seal was broken and the Kirby had 12 lbs of pull before the seal was broken. The air coming into the vacuum on the Dyson appeared to come from on top of the carpet. On the Kirby the air coming to the vacuum appeared to be coming from under the carpet. Also, the Dyson had great suction on one side of the power nozzle and no suction on the other side (see picture), while the Kirby had suction all the way across. To see more on this check out my guide called "How to Buy the Best Vacuum."


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Post# 290268 , Reply# 136   7/25/2014 at 22:35 (2,073 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        

cb123's profile picture
Thanks for the great wealth of information, but Dyson really only won one, for beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We all see what we want to see, and if this holds true, then Kirby is like a fine art...it only appreciates with age.

Post# 290276 , Reply# 137   7/26/2014 at 01:16 (2,072 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
wow!

super-sweeper's profile picture

That was great, salesmen guy! If Kirbys were 10 pounds lighter I would've just bought one from you! tongue-out

 

I'm pretty sure you broke a record there, vacuumlands longest reply! We need a vacuumland hall of fame! tongue-out


Post# 290286 , Reply# 138   7/26/2014 at 02:23 (2,072 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Again!!Kirbys Hose,Nozzle is raised in victory by the referee.
Nowadys-at least in my area--don't see Dyson sold at dealers.Its sold at big box stores--Wal-Mart,Lowes,and so on.Notice at big box type stores there may be machines on display--but you can't try them.Nothing to try them on-maybe the stores bare floor?The static display models are often non-functional-no cords or the machine is fastened down.With either dealer or DTD---You can try the machine most of the time either the dealer or DTD man can provide after sale service and parts like belts,bags,filters, and so on.At the big box place--you pick the machine packed in a box off the shelf and take it to the cashier to check out.NO support for you afterward-Where do you take the machine for service-usualyy NOT at the big box place where you bought it.Limited parts there-and no help whatsoever-you are on YOUR OWN at the box store.
A very long but still good reveiw of the Kirby vs Dyson.


Post# 290341 , Reply# 139   7/26/2014 at 13:04 (2,072 days old) by kirbyds50 ()        

I don't think Kirby's are all that heavy. Comparing my Dual 80 and my wife's Dyson. When I pick them both up at the same time, they feel the same in weight.

Post# 290342 , Reply# 140   7/26/2014 at 13:08 (2,072 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Yes, Jon ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... totally agree.

Particularly the pre-1969 Kirby models with the smaller nozzles. They are no bulkier than any other upright on the market today.

But my D80 can out-suction any of them!


Post# 290349 , Reply# 141   7/26/2014 at 14:39 (2,072 days old) by kirbyds50 ()        

Yep, the D80's suction is very powerful compared to most machines! I used the hose attachment to vacuum out my car today with my Dual 80, and it did a better job than my 5 horsepower industrial grade Shop-Vac does!

Think the Kirby will now be my primary detailing machine for my car. My carpets in there are spotlessly clean now and it only took me a half an hour to get it all clean. Love my Kirby!


Post# 290353 , Reply# 142   7/26/2014 at 15:18 (2,072 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Wow, that has to be a record for astroturfing a discussion board. Holy crap Batman!

Woulda been better as a video, lol.


Post# 290356 , Reply# 143   7/26/2014 at 16:14 (2,072 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        

cb123's profile picture
But, nevertheless, a most powerful dissertation/thesis. For the most part his analysis was decisively in favor of the superior machine. I especially liked it when he was, quite frankly, critical of the cheap plastic (INFERIOR) garbage/trash. Why, is that laughter I hear? Could it be? Why, it's Mr. Dyson, himself, laughing all the way to the bank saying, " Gotcha, Gotcha, Gotcha!" So in conclusion, I think that the labor VacuumSalesman afforded to this great undertaking is worthy of some praise.

Thank you for you detailed analysis, and Oh yeah, Kirby rules!


Post# 290358 , Reply# 144   7/26/2014 at 16:33 (2,072 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture
I own a Dyson ball and it's ok. I got it pretty inexpensively as a refurbished model. My biggest concern about Dyson is its durability. If it lasts 20 years, will there be parts available to service the motor? If I'm going to pay $700, it better last a lifetime. AND replacement parts had better be available.

Post# 290520 , Reply# 145   7/27/2014 at 08:27 (2,071 days old) by adiosTor3ador ()        
Where I stand

Personally I would own a Kirby because my experience with them has been good. They are very versatile machines and I can clean just about anything and anywhere using the attachments. Now my Dyson is a great vacuum and I have been using it as a daily driver to see how it fares and so far I can't complain it is genuinely a good vacuum. It feels sturdy than compared to my friends shark and as far as deep cleaning goes it does better than older Dysons and I feel is on par with my Kirby. If I were recommending machine to a person who isn't like me (meaning they aren't a collector) and just wants a vacuum that works and does a good job I would recommend a Dyson because for most people it easy to use and does a good job at cleaning and grooming carpets, Now if it were someone who had a slight knowledge on vacuums and wanted the be all and end all of cleaners hands down I would tell them to go after a Kirby.

Post# 290727 , Reply# 146   7/28/2014 at 15:11 (2,070 days old) by dysonman1 (Rolla, MO)        

dysonman1's profile picture
I don't care for Kirby vacuums, at all. They are here, so there are in the Museum, and we have one of every production model. I still don't like the way they belch dust. I don't like the dirt passing through the fan. I don't like the bag hanging off the side, rubbing the walls. I don't like the fact the attachments are in the closet. I hate the fact that they wholesale for $475 and retail for $1900 - the markup is way too high for what you get (a stick, and bag, and a weak little motor).

Plastic isn't bad. I hate when people say "Plastic" like it's a bad thing in vacuums, yet there have been plastic vacuums since the late 1960's and they are still here.

The Dyson DC17 is a great vacuum. My DC17 is almost ten years old, and has seen quite a bit of use. The motor is still fine, and since it's a Panasonic motor, I should be able to keep my Dyson running for more than two decades.



Post# 290730 , Reply# 147   7/28/2014 at 15:15 (2,070 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

dys0nb0y's profile picture
I agree with dysonman1. dysonman1 what do you think of the Dyson DC 65 ??

Post# 290736 , Reply# 148   7/28/2014 at 16:18 (2,070 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        
We Shall SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

cb123's profile picture
.

Post# 290750 , Reply# 149   7/28/2014 at 17:56 (2,070 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

Here's how we find the winner of this war- we see which one survives getting mowed-down by a Plymouth Fury at 40 miles an hour!

 

I noticed something today while vacuuming, Dyson didn't invent the 'turn-on-a-dime' vacuum! We had them LONG before he came along with the ball! I noticed that today with my Kirby Classics floor brush, it has complete swivel steering! But we can go all the way back to the Eureka model M or the Apex 'which-way' vacuums of the 1930s! 

 

Tom,I will agree with you on one of your points. Plastic has two styles, the quality plastics of the older Eurekas and Kenmores, and then there's the cheap, terrible plastics of the Dysons and what-not.

 

However,I can't disagree more with your view on Kirby. I just used my Classic today, it made my carpets BEAUTIFUL in one single pass. I know you promote Maytag senseless, and they are decent, American-Made vacuums, they still can't polish silverware! tongue-out


Post# 290757 , Reply# 150   7/28/2014 at 18:23 (2,070 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        
I..

kirbymodel2c's profile picture

I still find it funny that this thread is still going. laughing
I still dislike bagless vacs in general(cyclonic and water based)Both don't cope with large amounts of fine dust well.

It made me smile that Dyson have made all parts for the DC01/02 obsolete. (except belts for the DC01 just because it shares them with some of the other newer models.) I'm sure they will start on the DC03 soon.

Imagine if Kirby made everything for the G4 obsolete.
You can't blame a high mark up just on Kirby all the door to door companies do it..... Rainbow,Tristar,Filterqueen etc.

And when you work in this area of sales you can see why it's needed.
I would probably say Kirby is the biggest and most successful of all the door to door companies. Especially when you look at how many distributors it has worldwide compared to Rainbow,Tristar etc. You can see why, It's a great product now as it has always been. One of the many reasons I love looking at my complete Kirby collection seeing the evolution of it. Definitely for those who appreciate Quality, Performance and Reliabilitysmile.


 

Jamessmile


Post# 290771 , Reply# 151   7/28/2014 at 19:05 (2,070 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

Kirby, 75 Years of fine uprights that STILL aren't obsolete!


Post# 290788 , Reply# 152   7/28/2014 at 20:32 (2,070 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        
Alex, James............

cb123's profile picture
I must truly admit, when I read your lovely replies, I cried tears of joy. Well done and rightly said. The truth is a powerful weapon and you 'all wielded it most magnificently. Remember, aluminum may tarnish, but tawdry, tasteless plastic soon turns back to that low-cost white dust, and furthermore, what lies beneath, hidden in its dark subterfuge, behind its thin veneer of waste and stinking rot, beats the heart of a undersized and overpowered motor which was never meant to last. It will die a heat death with its poorly insulated conductors...so sad, so very sad.

Post# 290791 , Reply# 153   7/28/2014 at 20:42 (2,070 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

lol Calem, at times your replies look as if you've stolen them from a script! in this case, the script of Modern Vacuums!


Post# 290830 , Reply# 154   7/28/2014 at 22:59 (2,070 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        
Why Alex, Whatever Do You Mean?

cb123's profile picture
There was no plagiarism involved, I purloined it from my own heart, and I'm here to tell ya, I meant ever last word of it. Now, "The Script of Modern Vacuums" That was pretty clever. Alex, I think you're a poet and just don't know it. You must free the literary beast within and protect Kirby's exalted, lofty name. For we band of brothers have taken the Kirby oath and pledged our....wait just one second, No one is supposed to know about this.

Post# 290833 , Reply# 155   7/28/2014 at 23:11 (2,070 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

Calem!!! We haven't had a security breach in the K.P.A since Mark leaked the DS50 two-days before it's launch!!!

 

I meant you write with movie-script quality! It's golden at times. It's always fun to read, too! tongue-out


Post# 290836 , Reply# 156   7/29/2014 at 00:25 (2,069 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        
Well Thanks Alex....

cb123's profile picture
and I really do mean that. Writing should always be informative and above all else...FUN, FUN, FUN! Thanks again for liking my blathering hubbub, it's very much appreciated.

Calem


Post# 290892 , Reply# 157   7/29/2014 at 10:55 (2,069 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture

As always, it's been a pleasure Calem!


Post# 290897 , Reply# 158   7/29/2014 at 13:55 (2,069 days old) by FantomFan (Rochester, New York)        
I like Kirby, but they are not my favorite.

fantomfan's profile picture
I use Kirbys alot on my carpets. I do not enjoy using them for more than one area at a time. They are bulky, heavy and not very user friendly. They are made well, clean well, and have good filtration, but only if you use cloth HEPA bags. They just belched dust before I switched. I hate cleaning with the kirbys when using tools, it is too much trouble when I have canisters to do all of that. They are way too expensive. Somebody on Craigslist wants $2000 FIRM for a 6 month old USED Sentria 2. Really? I think they should go back to something similar to their old designs, pre-classic era. I really like those better. They are much lighter, clean just as well, and the only thing that should change is to have the new design use disposable bags. I know many people have had/have Kirbys. My neighbors have a Heritage 2, my aunt has a Sentria, my dad's friend's mom had a G6, a friend from school has a G5, I have my grandma's best friend's 515, another 2 friends of hers have Kirbys, I just don't know what kind. The lady I bought a G4 from still had her G3 upstairs, some people I have purchased vacuums from replaced what I bought with a Kirby, another neighbor used to have a Heritage. The vacuum exhibit I went to 11 years ago had a G6 limited edition, I have my other aunt's parents 512. They are everywhere. I have found that about 3/4 kirby owners I meet SWEAR by them. I don't blame them, I would take a Kirby over something cheap, but they are not machines I would use every day.

Post# 290967 , Reply# 159   7/29/2014 at 19:25 (2,069 days old) by ctvacman (CT)        

Anyone paying over the price listed on the side of the kirby box is just crazy. Although some dealerships cover that up. I always take them by surprise when I tell them the price is listed on the side.

Post# 291496 , Reply# 160   8/1/2014 at 17:40 (2,066 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Kirby (esp. pre-G Series) or any high-end vacuum (TriStar) will OUTCLEAN a Dyson!


Post# 291733 , Reply# 161   8/3/2014 at 03:21 (2,064 days old) by vacuumssuck213 ()        
the topic that wont die

Its never fully been settled and nor will it. Let me take another crack at this while both are good cleaning machines neather is without flaw owning a Dyson dc07 in the past I loved it. Was light weight versitle relitivly quiet picked up like a charm good suction and it didn't look bad ether. Kirby on the other hand. High performance deep cleaning that "seems" unsurpassed easy to maneuver great suction amazing air flow and practical in theory. The problem is Dysons are bagless and anything I've learned no bagless machines have the airflow of a bag. Its pushing air in not through. Also the Dysons straight hose was incredibly annoying and the thing about Dyson there is no easy fix. Broken belt you have to buy a 60 dollar clutch assembly and replacing the part is a chore. And then theres your Kirby its heavy as sin switching from floor to hose mode is less then convenient 90% of the Kirbys claim to fame comes from simple logic that the last one wins tired old Vacs of poor quality help Kirby tremendously if I had to choose I'm with Kirby but in a fair no holds bar its a almost stand still all things considered




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