Shocked about a Eureka upright


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Thread Number: 15698
Shocked about a Eureka upright

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Post# 167077 1/24/2012 at 17:29 (4,476 days old) by whirlpolf ()
Checkrate/Likes Fortunate for me: Not shocked BY a Eureka. I had the chance to disassemble one (which was not mine) but I found that all those wires were just threaded and twisted together just as they were: Copper strands capped with some yellow tiny plastic caps and just left there in the motor casing as is.(Meaning: The copper strands were just being twisted together, the caps just screwed onto them). What comes on top: No grounding in spite of a metal housing and no cable clamp visible against pulling the cable out, just a small black plastic grommet (small ring, nothing else) in the metal housing to keep the mains cable from being torn out. Is this a standard? Goodness, what will be if someone happens to wiggle this out of the vac? What if they pull the mains cord, pull the copper strands out of these heartlessly abandoned yellow plastic caps flying around there around this unsuspecting motor fan? What if some copper power wire touches the Eureka metal hood without tripping the power interruptor? Is this normal? More than scared: Joe I've just refused to give this unit a try, even if this transformer unit of mine does have a grounded secondary. I sent the seller away, guessing there must have been some fiddling around with this machine. Where were the permanently fixed wire clamps? Where is the grounding anyway? It is a metal machine, after all.

Post# 167087 , Reply# 1 1/24/2012 at 18:33 (4,476 days old) by twocvbloke ()
Checkrate/Likes Erm, that's actually normal, if it's a non-commercial model, it isn't grounded, as the motor is double-insulated, my two Sanitaires and Electrolux C12 (same thing) have different wiring, the C12 and S663 have 2-wires, and the ZC-880 has 3 wires, and they're perfectly safe to use... As for the wire nuts, they're pretty damned secure, I've been using them in place of connector blocks (also known as choccyblocks or euro-blocks, which I've used for many years before finding wirenuts), it's hard to pull the wire nuts apart when fitted properly, they're the best connectors I've used in a long time, easier to use than crimp-on connectors (which I've had arc, melt AND fall off when in use, VERY safe!!), and much more secure than connector blocks... So, it's perfectly safe, nothing to be scared of, I'm more scared of my miele and it's rather toasty looking electronics catching fire...

Post# 167220 , Reply# 2 1/25/2012 at 15:22 (4,475 days old) by whirlpolf ()
Checkrate/Likes *ah, that is really enlightening* I agree, I would never trust these PC boards. No Miele will ever enter my home unless for a quick resale. (Not a Miele fan anyway, but that is another long story not to be displayed in this very thread). But these plastic caps being "hard to pull off" - that must be a hooey. These screw-on caps came off just like this, I could use my pinky on that. No matter what: There are 3 points I was worried about: 1. Electrical "ends" having the opportunity to flop around randomly (which is given with yellow caps but not with a screwed-down or riveted-down block connector that cannot move away from its position) 2. stranded wires (no entering block connectors here without proper bundling of the copper strands, be it by some "Aderendh�lsen" (as called here, some small metal tubes that you permanently clamp down on those wire fibres) or be it by some proper soldering (which is no longer allowed here, but which would be fine for me) 3. these dreadful round black plastic grommets to keep the cable from being pulled out, I simply do not trust them being able to substitute a good and substantial "cable hose clamp" screwed down to the housing (they are just a little bar screwed down with 2 screws just like a mini vice). I must add that in the very unit I am talking about, the yellow caps could swing freely, there weren't even small hooks to hold down the individual wires. This worried me a lot. The vac was in average condition, not good, not bad. It just didn't feel right. I somehow felt I was supposed to trust my life to the woes of these caps of felt point pens (and that hasn't changed despite your very precise explanation). Have seen the clamp-downs, they looked ok to me. Seen the connector-blocks, same. But having seen these? God, this Eureka would rattle if you shook it! That is NOT normal to me, very sorry.

Post# 167229 , Reply# 3 1/25/2012 at 16:11 (4,475 days old) by twocvbloke ()
Checkrate/Likes Just so I know, how big were the caps, and how many wires were going into them? If they were coming off easily, then whoever fitted them used the wrong size, I've got a couple of yellow wire nuts in my S663 (see link below, though it's actually my ZC-880's motor, but I haven't got a 120v motor for it at the moment), and they're stuck fast, lightly twist the wires together, twist on the nut (which contains a small spring which opens up as you fit it, then clamps down when the nut won't turn any further), then you're done, though my ZC-880's motor does have securing loops to hold wires in place to stop them flopping about... As for the cable securing grommets, if they're of the type I have on all three of my three Sanitaires which are a C shape with a "filler" thing that clamps down on the cable, they're pretty tough to remove, and even tougher to pull the cable through, unless you strap the vac down to a concrete slab, attach the cable to a car's towbar and just go driving (and even then the hood is more likely to give way first), unless it's something like on a Hoover Junior which is just some rubber tube which does bugger all to prevent things being pulled out... :\ Still, if you're that concerned about the wire nuts being an electrical safety issue, I'd advise not visiting the US & Canada, their wiring, household and commercial, is full of wire nuts of varying sizes and colours, where they're UL approved for safe wiring... :) (And that's coming from someone living in a country where the people in power think it's a great idea to have 30 amps travelling to power sockets resulting in the need for fused plugs (stupid idea if you ask me, the older BS546 setup was better, just abused by people with cheap adaptors)!!!) CLICK HERE TO GO TO twocvbloke's LINK

Post# 167335 , Reply# 4 1/26/2012 at 13:38 (4,474 days old) by whirlpolf ()
Checkrate/Likes *Wow, David!* What an effort you've put into this! And good that you explained it all, as having seen some American homes (not all!), I was not sure which is the right way to do things over there and what the regulations are. 1. The upright: THIS is a neat upright, it looks like I would like to see machines. "Ein Unterschied wie Tag und Nacht" (=a difference like between day and night). The one in question on the other hand: Far from your picture: The cable strands from the housing grommet leading to the screw caps were at least double that length: Actually, if they'd been free, you could easily have pulled them to the front of the upper hood (some 10 to 20 cm). 2. That diagram of proper screw caps: Jesus, this a huge difference to what I had seen in that particular Eureka: Sure, some self-cutting spirals or springs would have made a big difference. Sure, some extra sleeve length would have been a good protection against housing spark-over. But what I had seen were some yellow 1 inch (or less) plastic caps (6 ridges or ribs to turn them, molded plastic inner thread mini cups). I have no idea about the model number of the vacuum, it was a household edition, blueish lower base and white motor cap on it. I presume, the original setup was gone in favour of some selfmade electrician's slam-it-in and forget-it "sorcery". (Way too long wire strands, way too small caps). Other than you assumed (and which sounds logical): This guy had caps that apparently were too small: On some connections you could see the copper for about 1-2 mm and he had the wires just hanging loose, the insulation of the individual strands not even entering the cap. That moulded plastic threading can't make it here, let alone keep the wires in place. (too much copper for one cap, the wires cannot make it all the way into the cap). My guess: Somebody else cut the motor wires out with a carpet knife (too many connectors close to the motor) but this guy tried to make a working Eureka out of it again (long wires coming from the main cable towards the motor, using the wrong caps in addition). Good that I didn't take this particular machine, better even that Eurekas are as safe as any other when coming off the assembly line. Thanks. Problem solved, moron gone, my 6th sense was right. Thanks again. Joe

Post# 167341 , Reply# 5 1/26/2012 at 14:09 (4,474 days old) by collector2 (Moose Jaw, Sk)
Checkrate/Likes Hey Joe: Those smaller wire connectors were used alot in vacuums but the stripped part of the wire shouldnt be any longer than the connector. Usually a piece of electrical tape or even fabric tape was wrapped around he bottom of the connector and wire to make certain that they didnt come loose. More recently I have seen alot with a heat shrink around the bottom. Doug

Post# 167371 , Reply# 6 1/26/2012 at 16:50 (4,474 days old) by whirlpolf ()
Checkrate/Likes *hey Doug,* thank you. But isn't that was I was talking about? A so-so solution with some extra "somewhat-ok" security on top? Thanks for the add, but goodness, shouldn't a life be the utmost thing to save in the first place? I am pretty sure that a lot of "fancy" units are around globally, no matter what method of clamping the wires. I just want things to be substantial. I have no need to trust those "somehow" thingies and I cannot trust my best friends and loved ones to have any more vacuum knowledge than "on/off". Yet I feel they must be safe by all means, no matter what. Good that you pointed it out, I will install a practise to double check on any "new" old machine coming into my home. It will go through my hands and be checked as "ok" or it will not leave the workbench other ways than joining the trash. Besides that: I have this miraculous Royal machne here, some 110 V setup but a 220 V cord and plug. I got a nasty shock from that one, but I am not sure which parts are original and which one's aren't. (The bag says some other name, not Royal though (red bag, different brand name) - but the looks are just the same). But I guess this might be material enough for another thread. Left to say that all the necessary steps to check are within the grasp of a normally working mind: nothing non-insulated, hightest forces needed to pull things apart, longest overlapping sleeves and all else. The shocking looks of that one single Eureka were just a thing of some "eager specialist", but not of normal manufacture. That was good for me to learn.

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