Thread Number: 15328
Is this normal for my Electrolux? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 162871   12/20/2011 at 18:28 (4,509 days old) by tyson ()        

As I put in last post I found an Electrolux XXX although it runs good is this normal or is it time for new brushes?

Post# 162872 , Reply# 1   12/20/2011 at 18:31 (4,509 days old) by tyson ()        

It seems to spark from the brushes and tracks the armature as it spins rather brightly.

Post# 162873 , Reply# 2   12/20/2011 at 18:33 (4,509 days old) by tyson ()        

Though it runs smooth,How much spark if any is normal?

Post# 162887 , Reply# 3   12/20/2011 at 19:31 (4,509 days old) by vacuumfreak (Ontario, Canada)        

Mine does this too, although not as brightly. I think it is perfectly normal, because my brushes are still about an inch long.

Post# 162888 , Reply# 4   12/20/2011 at 19:33 (4,509 days old) by vacuumfreak (Ontario, Canada)        

I meant to say that MY brushes are about an inch long ;)

Daniel :)

Post# 162889 , Reply# 5   12/20/2011 at 19:34 (4,509 days old) by vacuumfreak (Ontario, Canada)        

Just completely ignore that last post.

Post# 162891 , Reply# 6   12/20/2011 at 19:45 (4,509 days old) by tyson ()        

LOL,Ok Thanks.I was just wondering.I did take one of the brushes out and it still has about an inch of material as well.Maybe I'm just too picky.Thanks

Post# 162894 , Reply# 7   12/20/2011 at 20:05 (4,509 days old) by timborow (Georgia)        
My Model E

 .....does the same thing. It runs smooth and strong, but I don't think the sparking is normal. I carried mine in the vac shop today. The owner said he thought it was the brushes or the armature, but it could be fixed. He was shocked how nice the vacuum was. He said he could sell a boatload f them if he could find them that looked as nice as mine. I'll let you know what he says about it.
Tim

Post# 162896 , Reply# 8   12/20/2011 at 20:09 (4,509 days old) by vacuumfreak (Ontario, Canada)        

Tim, please keep us posted! I would like to know if and how this can be fixed.

Thanks!
Daniel :)

Post# 162916 , Reply# 9   12/20/2011 at 21:47 (4,509 days old) by kirbykid63 (Wilmington Delaware)        
uneven carbon brush contact

 You have a hot spot on your comutator,there should be a even sizzle between the carbon brush and the comutator.I suspect your armature is beginning to short out.

Post# 162943 , Reply# 10   12/21/2011 at 00:13 (4,509 days old) by tyson ()        

Ok I did find out this bit of info. If you remove the brushes and use electrical cleaner to clean the comutator that it will help to reduce the sparking from the brushes and alot of hotspots are not caused from excessive wear but from carbon build up on the comutator itself.I'll try cleaning the comutator and post the outcome.

Post# 162973 , Reply# 11   12/21/2011 at 09:09 (4,508 days old) by kirbykid63 (Wilmington Delaware)        
Perhaps I can help

 You can call me on my cell and I will explain the correct way to clean a commutator,I have been working on vacuums for 12yrs.

Richard Groski New2youvacuums on eBay
520-260-1364

Post# 162976 , Reply# 12   12/21/2011 at 09:17 (4,508 days old) by tyson ()        

Sounds good Richard I'll get with you later this afternoon.I appreciate the help.

Post# 163046 , Reply# 13   12/21/2011 at 16:16 (4,508 days old) by tyson ()        

Thanks for all your help Richard I'm very appreciative my friend.

Post# 163060 , Reply# 14   12/21/2011 at 19:19 (4,508 days old) by tyson ()        

BRUSH AND COMMUTATOR CARE
Some maintenance people with many relatively trouble-free AC squirrel cage motors forget that brushes and commutators require more frequent routine inspection and service. The result can be unnecessary failures between scheduled maintenance.

As indicated in Troubleshooting Problem M on Page 27, many factors are involved in brush and commutator problems. All generally involve brush sparking usually accompanied by chatter and often excessive wear or chipping. Sparking may result from poor commutator conditions or it may cause them.

The degree of sparking should be determined by careful visual inspection. The illustrations shown in
Figure 5 are a useful guide. It is very important that you gauge the degree number as accurately as possible. The solution to the problem may well depend upon the accuracy of your answer since many motor, load, environmental and application conditions can cause sparking.

It is also imperative that a remedy be determined as quickly as possible. Sparking generally feeds upon itself and becomes worse with time until serious damage results.

Some of the causes are obvious and some are not. Some are constant and others intermittent. Therefore, eliminating brush sparking, especially when it is a chronic or recurring problem, requires a thorough review of the motor and operating conditions. Always recheck for sparking after correcting one problem to see that it solved the total problem. Also remember that, after grinding the commutator and properly reseating the brushes, sparking will occur until the polished, brown surface reforms on the commutator.

NOTE: Small sparks are yellow in color, and the large sparks are white in color. The white sparks, or blue-white sparks, are most detrimental to commutation (both brush and commutator).

Figure 5. Degrees of Generator and Motor Sparking

First consider external conditions that affect commutation. Frequent motor overloads, vibration and high humidity cause sparking. Extremely low humidity allows brushes to wear through the needed polished brown commutator surface film. Oil, paint, acid and other chemical vapors in the atmosphere contaminate brushes and the commutator surface.

Look for obvious brush and brush holder deficiencies:

Be sure brushes are properly seated, move freely in the holders and are not too short.
The brush spring pressure must be equal on all brushes.
Be sure spring pressure is not too light or too high. Large motors with adjustable springs should be set at about 3 to 4 pounds per square inch of brush surface in contact with the commutators.
Remove dust that can cause a short between brush holders and frame.
Check lead connections to the brush holders. Loose connections cause overheating.

Look for obvious commutator problems:

Any condition other than a polished, brown surface under the brushes indicates a problem. Severe sparking causes a rough blackened surface. An oil film, paint spray, chemical contamination and other abnormal conditions can cause a blackened or discolored surface and sparking. Streaking or grooving under only some brushes or flat and burned spots can result from a load mismatch and cause motor electrical problems. Grooved commutators should be removed from service. A brassy appearance shows excessive wear on the surface resulting from low humidity or wrong brush grade.
High mica or high or low commutator bars make the brushes jump, causing sparking.
Carbon dust, copper foil or other conductive dust in the slots between commutator bars causes shorting and sometimes sparking between bars.

If correcting any obvious deficiencies does not eliminate sparking or noise, look to the less obvious possibilities:

If brushes were changed before the problem became apparent, check the grade of brushes. Weak brushes may chip. Soft, low abrasive brushes may allow a thick film to form. High friction or high abrasion brushes wear away the brown film, producing a brassy surface. If the problem appears only under one or more of the brushes, two different grades of brushes may have been installed. Generally, use only the brushes recommended by the motor manufacturer or a qualified brush expert.
The brush holder may have been reset improperly. If the boxes are more than 1/8" from the commutator, the brushes can jump or chip. Setting the brush holder off neutral causes sparking. Normally the brushes must be equally spaced around the commutator and must be parallel to the bars so all make contact with each bar at the same time.
An eccentric commutator causes sparking and may cause vibration. Normally, concentrically should be within .001" on high speed, .002" on medium speed and .004" on slow speed motors.
Various electrical failures in the motor windings or connections manifest themselves in sparking and poor commutation. Look for shorts or opens in the armature circuit and for grounds, shorts or opens in the field winding circuits. A weak inter-pole circuit or large air gap also generate brush sparking.

Post# 163061 , Reply# 15   12/21/2011 at 19:22 (4,508 days old) by tyson ()        

Spark Guide.

Post# 163066 , Reply# 16   12/21/2011 at 19:34 (4,508 days old) by tyson ()        

igure 5. Degrees of Generator and Motor Sparking

First consider external conditions that affect commutation. Frequent motor overloads, vibration and high humidity cause sparking. Extremely low humidity allows brushes to wear through the needed polished brown commutator surface film. Oil, paint, acid and other chemical vapors in the atmosphere contaminate brushes and the commutator surface.

Look for obvious brush and brush holder deficiencies:

1) Be sure brushes are properly seated, move freely in the holders and are not too short.
2) The brush spring pressure must be equal on all brushes.
3)Be sure spring pressure is not too light or too high. Large motors with adjustable springs should be set at about 3 to 4 pounds per square inch of brush surface in contact with the commutators.
4)Remove dust that can cause a short between brush holders and frame.
5)Check lead connections to the brush holders. Loose connections cause overheating.

Look for obvious commutator problems:

1)Any condition other than a polished, brown surface under the brushes indicates a problem. Severe sparking causes a rough blackened surface. An oil film, paint spray, chemical contamination and other abnormal conditions can cause a blackened or discolored surface and sparking. Streaking or grooving under only some brushes or flat and burned spots can result from a load mismatch and cause motor electrical problems. Grooved commutators should be removed from service. A brassy appearance shows excessive wear on the surface resulting from low humidity or wrong brush grade.
2)High mica or high or low commutator bars make the brushes jump, causing sparking.
3)Carbon dust, copper foil or other conductive dust in the slots between commutator bars causes shorting and sometimes sparking between bars.

If correcting any obvious deficiencies does not eliminate sparking or noise, look to the less obvious possibilities:

1) If brushes were changed before the problem became apparent, check the grade of brushes. Weak brushes may chip. Soft, low abrasive brushes may allow a thick film to form. High friction or high abrasion brushes wear away the brown film, producing a brassy surface. If the problem appears only under one or more of the brushes, two different grades of brushes may have been installed. Generally, use only the brushes recommended by the motor manufacturer or a qualified brush expert.
2) The brush holder may have been reset improperly. If the boxes are more than 1/8" from the commutator, the brushes can jump or chip. Setting the brush holder off neutral causes sparking. Normally the brushes must be equally spaced around the commutator and must be parallel to the bars so all make contact with each bar at the same time.
3)An eccentric commutator causes sparking and may cause vibration. Normally, concentricity should be within .001" on high speed, .002" on medium speed and .004" on slow speed motors.
4)Various electrical failures in the motor windings or connections manifest themselves in sparking and poor commutation. Look for shorts or opens in the armature circuit and for grounds, shorts or opens in the field winding circuits. A weak interpole circuit or large air gap also generate brush sparking.

Post# 163140 , Reply# 17   12/22/2011 at 18:31 (4,507 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA)        

truckerx's profile picture
Pull one of the brushes out to see how much remains.


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