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Thread Number: 34174  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Dyson DC65 Airflow Losses
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Post# 370314   4/8/2017 at 18:58 by wyaple (Ohio, USA)        

The first two measurements were easy to get, the last one (CFM at the nozzle) required me to build an airflow box. I think this pic should easily illustrate where and by how much CFM is lost in this machine. I think this is typical performance from a cyclonic bag less cleaner.

From the base of the machine through the cyclones and to the nozzle, there is a loss of 120-52 = 68 CFM. This is the second highest airflow loss I've recorded to date, about 57% of the cleaning power is lost through the cyclones.

Last note: the rug plate opening is a little below average (about 22 square inches) and the CFM density is below average as well, about 2.3 CFM/Sq. In. While it'll do an OK job on top of the carpet pile, deep down cleaning will be difficult for this 11 Amp beast.

Bill





Post# 370324 , Reply# 1   4/9/2017 at 00:09 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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That is a huge loss! I'm beginning to go off bagless!

This is what i've always thought a lot of these cleaners look good on low pile carpets but that's not a real test.How well will they do on thicker pile carpet that is a better test.

I hope James gets to see your results :)



Post# 370333 , Reply# 2   4/9/2017 at 04:48 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Thank you for all the info Bill I have learnt a lot from it 😊

Post# 370334 , Reply# 3   4/9/2017 at 06:07 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I love my Dyson DC55 I think it works great, best Dyson upright I have used.

Post# 370335 , Reply# 4   4/9/2017 at 06:13 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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I thought it was good until I saw these results. I like the way it handles and manoeuvres but if these figures are correct I'm sure they are then it's not going to deep clean that well only surface clean.

I'm going to use bagged cleaners in future. I wish Miele would make an upright with a 12" floorhead!


Post# 370340 , Reply# 5   4/9/2017 at 08:31 by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
typical bagless

This is not surprising, and is very typical of what happens with bagless vacuums. This is why it's always best to stick with a bagged vacuum, when you replace your bag, you are resetting your vacuum's primary filter. With bagless vacuums, even if you empty and clean the filters, there is fine dust that will get in to parts that are not replaced.
Mike


Post# 370348 , Reply# 6   4/9/2017 at 12:10 by sptyks (Woburn, MA)        

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Marcus,

 

How wide is the Miele S7 upright's floor head? Is it 14"?

 

 


Post# 370349 , Reply# 7   4/9/2017 at 12:11 by sptyks (Woburn, MA)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 370353 , Reply# 8   4/9/2017 at 12:38 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Yes 14". It wasn't a success in the UK. Retailers don't stock it anymore.

I don't think big heavy vacs are popular in the UK as they are over the pond.

I think a lighter 12" nozzle might be. But then again most want bagless.
Maybe one day bagged will make a comeback. I'd love to see more bagged uprights!


Post# 370367 , Reply# 9   4/9/2017 at 14:28 by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY)        
WHAT?!!?!?!??!!?!?

52!?!?!?!? My Electrolux Model G runs circles around this! Why did you waste $700 on this piece of trash?!?!?

Post# 370370 , Reply# 10   4/9/2017 at 14:49 by wyaple (Ohio, USA)        
Adin,

I didn't waste a single penny on this machine. It was a curb find on trash day in front of a $250K home. They replaced their DC65 with....wait for it...a Shark Rotator. It appears to be a case of "never loses suction" also means "never have to empty it and/or clean the cyclones". A full disassembly, soak, scrub, rinse and I now have a nearly perfect DC65 that is just like new.

The maximum I pay for any machine I find in thrift stores (including Rainbows, Kirbys, Simplicitys, etc.) is $20.

BUT, I do feel somewhat sorry for the unfortunate person that did fork over $700 for this vacuum. And yes, $700 USD for 52 nozzle CFM is quite a poor deal, that's why I'm the crazy idiot posting these results.

Bill


Post# 370376 , Reply# 11   4/9/2017 at 15:02 by Mike811 (Finland)        
Very Poor indeed

mike811's profile picture
LOL! My 32 years old Philips P74 Electronic canister pulls almost 90 cfm from the hose end and it's very quiet.
To be honest this is not surprising at all. Multi cyclonic vacuums are worst what it comes to airflow.
Multi cyclonic system has so overly complex airpath that airflow will suffer A LOT.
Best single cyclonic vacuums has a enough good separation and airflow don't suffer nearly as much.
Some manufactures don't even want to make multi cyclonic vacuums, because of the huge airflow loss like the Miele and Electrolux. Electrolux has just a one multi cyclone vacuum. Rest is single cyclone designs.


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Post# 370379 , Reply# 12   4/9/2017 at 15:16 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Be interesting to see what the bagless Miele Blizzard will score

Shark only has one cyclone.Id like to see the results of that too.



Post# 370380 , Reply# 13   4/9/2017 at 15:28 by Mike811 (Finland)        
Shark & Electrolux

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My point was that well designed single cyclone vacuums can have pretty good airflow. Shark Rotator has only 2 = 62 cfm from the hose end. Electrolux UltraFlex has almost 5 = 85 cfm from the hose end. Both are single cyclonic vacuums.
It sure would be interesting to see what Miele pulls.


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Post# 370384 , Reply# 14   4/9/2017 at 16:02 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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You are all very particular on your suck aren't ya? ;)

Post# 370393 , Reply# 15   4/9/2017 at 21:07 by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY)        
SERIOUSLY?!?!

THEY PRETTY MUCH BOUGHT THIS JUST TO THROW IT OUT!!!! WHY ARE PEOPLE SO WASTEFUL?!?!? Keep your eye out for that Rotator, in a year it will probably be tossed too.

Post# 370397 , Reply# 16   4/9/2017 at 21:44 by wyaple (Ohio, USA)        
Adin,

Got a DC14 for free as the brush roll was clogged with hair and the machine was making a funny noise.

Got a DC25 for free as the owner couldn't be bothered to empty the dust bin and clean the brush roll. A trash find at the curb.

Got a DC65 as the owner couldn't be bothered to empty the dust bin and had sucked up something fairly moist and very black. Found at the curb.

Got a Hoover Windtunnel MAX as the owner couldn't be bothered to empty the dust bin and clean the brush roll, so out to the curb it went.

Got a Hoover Windtunnel 2 Pet because owner couldn't read the solid red indicator that meant please empty the dust bin. He triggered the thermal overload and thought the machine was toast. He bought a Windtunnel 3 and still doesn't quite understand how the bag indicator works. Some months later he proudly showed me a solid green indicator as a testimony that his new machine was doing well and I said "that's nice, but can we turn it on and check it?" You know the result, it showed about 75% in the red.

I'm actually waiting for a Rainbow E2 2-speed to be out at the curb that the owner will not have changed the water in a year and the machine will smell like mold.

I knew one person at my last contract job that actually planned to buy a new Wal-Mart $50 cheapie vac every year by purchasing a 2 year extended warranty, then bringing in the clogged year old machine and exchanging it for a new one. He's been doing this for years and Wal-Mart doesn't notice or care.

Oh, and I'll be looking for the new Shark to be at the curb in a few months...

Bill


Post# 370402 , Reply# 17   4/9/2017 at 22:53 by Mike811 (Finland)        
DC65 cleaning performance

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Another Kirby sales demo or true performance difference?





Post# 370405 , Reply# 18   4/9/2017 at 23:16 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I don't understand tests like that...

You can't compare chalk with cheese.


Post# 370407 , Reply# 19   4/10/2017 at 02:05 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Alex it's the quality of the suck that counts.
You should know this 😂


Post# 370416 , Reply# 20   4/10/2017 at 09:32 by luxkid1980 (Richmond, Virginia)        

I too am not sure why people waste money on the garbage bagless vacs. I guess they figure they will come ahead since they won't be buying bags, but a majority of the bagless ones won't last long enough to see those savings.

I was in a store over the weekend and there was a family in there looking at a Shark vacuum and a couple other brands the store had. They couldn't decide what they wanted, but were trying to find the one with the most advertised watts. I told them to save their money and go elsewhere and get a proper vacuum with a bag and it would be easier to maintain. The lady looked at me like I was crazy to want a vacuum with a bag.


Post# 370419 , Reply# 21   4/10/2017 at 12:16 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Well if you look at it from a consumers point of view...Which is more user friendly? A Kirby? Or a Dyson?

That was a rhetorical question.


Post# 370421 , Reply# 22   4/10/2017 at 12:28 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Yes the Dyson is clearly more user friendly. The Kirby with the tech drive is effortless to push though. I like that.

It is too bulky. I only use it to clean my varpets, I use my C3 for other jobs. It's a combination that works very well for me ,😉


Post# 370423 , Reply# 23   4/10/2017 at 12:35 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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There are bagged cleaners that are user friendly such as the Sebo Felix and plenty more in the US.

Post# 370430 , Reply# 24   4/10/2017 at 14:56 by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Hahaha!

Yeah i knew it was going to have a low CFM at the base, if you remove the head and put a baird meter to the opening it won't register at all. I've got a 65, in fact i just used it yesterday it's....different from the rest of my vacs so it gets a pass to stay.

Post# 370434 , Reply# 25   4/10/2017 at 15:54 by wyaple (Ohio, USA)        
I Also Confirm a Baird "2" With The Nozzle Removed

So a DC65 gets a "whopping" 2 with the nozzle removed, which translates to 62 CFM. Why people spend well over $600 for this machine is beyond me.

Bill


Post# 370435 , Reply# 26   4/10/2017 at 15:55 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I don't know why Dysons get so much flack, I love mine. I think it works great.

Although, British Dyson uprights have different floor heads/brushrolls than the US Dyson uprights.


Post# 370436 , Reply# 27   4/10/2017 at 16:31 by wyaple (Ohio, USA)        
Even Though Dysons Are Wildly Popular In The U.S.

I just have a difficult time spending $600 for 52 CFM at the nozzle. I can spend $70 and have 80 CFM at the nozzle by purchasing a Hoover Tempo Widepath bagged machine. Or, if I demand a bag less machine, I can spend $70 (on sale) for a Hoover Windtunnel 2 Pet (still being sold here) that has...wait for it...52 CFM at the nozzle.

To date, I have a DC14, DC25, and DC65 in my herd and they are used in regular rotation.

Bill


Post# 370437 , Reply# 28   4/10/2017 at 17:01 by Mixman (Central NJ)        

Well, you would have to lack online skills or be just plain lazy to pay $600 for any Dyson. Right now you can get the DC65 refurb for about $219 from the Dyson outlet or a total clean new for $300. So when the public sees a discounted Dyson they think they are getting one of the best bargains in vacuuming, which is why so many are quick to purchase, plus as long as it gets their pet hairs out of their carpets and upholstery they will think its a great machine.

Post# 370444 , Reply# 29   4/10/2017 at 18:30 by wyaple (Ohio, USA)        
Mike,

I was referring to when the DC65 was new a few years ago. And with tax, many people paid closer to $700. Who would want to buy a superseded Dyson DC65 now that the "Ball 2" technology is available?

Bill


Post# 370457 , Reply# 30   4/11/2017 at 01:06 by Mixman (Central NJ)        
Bill

True about the Animal 2, but as far as I can see it is a small improvement at best of the older Ball Animal. But to circle back as to the reason why I think people buy them it is because they generally get them cheap, or at least cheaper than the MSRP and also most think they are powerful enough. They see the infomercials and say "Wow that thing works better than my current vacuum, think I will get that."

Post# 370461 , Reply# 31   4/11/2017 at 04:13 by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

User friendly--For me KIRBY is more user friendly than the Dyson.The Dyson is too clacky and MORE clunky to me and to top it off emptying its disgusting dirt bin and having to clean its filter.The hose and wands on the Dyson are VERY awkward-and too small of a bore to move enough air for hand tool cleaning.And another thing--At the vac shop a few weeks ago the fellow there was cleaning out CLOGGED cyclones on two Dyson machines.The cyclones were stuffed full of people,pet hair and carpet fluff and dust.Yes,the cyclones DO clog!Its far easier,faster,and CLEANER to replace the bag in the Kirby.Some Dyson models end weighing as much as a Kirby and NO self propel!The handle and bin assembly are hand heavy and prevent the machine from getting under furniture.The powernozzle necks on these clog all of the time because the holes are too small.The Dysons motor is choked off from this.

Post# 370479 , Reply# 32   4/11/2017 at 11:25 by luxkid1980 (Richmond, Virginia)        

I looked at a couple different dysons at the store the other day and they just feel cheap, too much ugly plastic. The guy at my local vacuum shop said the dysons were in there all the time for a clog or other type of repair. They, in my opinion, are not worth anywhere near MSRP, but granted, few vacuums are. Good deals are not hard to find. Though some dream machines like an Aerus guardian platinum aren't within reach for me, even when on sale! :)

Post# 370480 , Reply# 33   4/11/2017 at 11:31 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture
Perhaps I shpuld of said, inconvenient, a Kirby is by far the biggest, clunkiest, inconvenient machine I have ever used.

Post# 370485 , Reply# 34   4/11/2017 at 12:21 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Big heavy and clunky but I like it on carpets. Effortless to push and deep cleans better than any other vac I've used.

Post# 370491 , Reply# 35   4/11/2017 at 14:30 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Kirbys are certainly on par with old Hoover uprights in terms of performance.

Post# 370496 , Reply# 36   4/11/2017 at 15:21 by sptyks (Woburn, MA)        

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Alex,

 

I have a 50 year old Kirby DS50 that weighs only 15 pounds and it is not only lighter but it can outclean any plasticrap  Dyson you own.

 

 


Post# 370497 , Reply# 37   4/11/2017 at 15:23 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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You'd know more about that than me. I've never owned an old Hoover upright 😉

Post# 370498 , Reply# 38   4/11/2017 at 15:27 by luxkid1980 (Richmond, Virginia)        

Have to keep in mind that "user friendly" can mean different things to different people. I don't mind a heavy vacuum if it cleans well and it easy to move around (from carpet to bare floors, as well as tote around from room to room). I prefer my Orecks for quick cleaning of carpets and bare floors, but I like my Electrolux for areas that I cannot use the Oreck, like on the couch or when I need to use the crevice tool or dusting brush. It's a heavier vacuum that I often just pick up and carry versus rolling it around. Also, I'm not inconvenienced by using different machines for different purposes, some probably would be.

But again, I don't want to have to take out a filter and wash it in the sink or take the dust bin and empty it in the trash and then wipe it out. Its easier for me to just toss the paper bag in the trash and put in a new one. And, I don't have to buy a HEPA filters with my current lineup. Some people don't mind doing that of course.


Post# 370501 , Reply# 39   4/11/2017 at 18:14 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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haha fair enough, I can only talk from my experiences and in my experience, the latest Dysons are better than ever.

I like Kirbys, I have had many, sold them all, they just don't hold my interest really.

I mainly collect old Hoover and old Electrolux machines.

I also collect Miele, Dyson and Numatic as well, some Vax cleaners too.

My era for vacs for the collection is 70s-90s those are my favourite eras.


Post# 370506 , Reply# 40   4/11/2017 at 20:53 by luxkid1980 (Richmond, Virginia)        

Yeah I think Kirby's are interesting machines, but just not my favorites either.

Post# 370519 , Reply# 41   4/12/2017 at 04:36 by Mike811 (Finland)        
Kirby is matter of taste

mike811's profile picture
Kirby is not for everyone. I realised it soon as I had used it the first time. I have Gsix and I like it, but it's not my "daily driver". For that I use something lighter: upright with a hose onboard or a canister. But when I want to give my carpets a deepclean Kirby is my choice. Definitely something what I want to keep in my collection.

Mike


Post# 370521 , Reply# 42   4/12/2017 at 06:02 by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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I'm the same Mike. I use my Kirby to deep clean my carpets and my Miele C3 or Sebo E3 with a power nozzle as a daily driver. Not that I vacuum daily 😀

That works very well 😉


Post# 370522 , Reply# 43   4/12/2017 at 07:24 by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I don't need to worry about deep cleaning as I use mainly old Hoover cleaners.
I like to have the convenience of tools onboard, so I tend to use my Turbomaster Total System upright with built in tools, deep cleaning action, hardfloor cleaning option and, of coure, the Turbomaster was 👇🏻





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