Thread Number: 5947
You Cannot Clean by Suction Alone! – a shocking photo play by Jack Copp 		[Down to Last]

Vacuumland's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items --- [As an eBay Partner, eBay may compensate vacuumland.org if you make a purchase using any link to eBay on this page]
Post# 66446   4/15/2009 at 05:30 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Picture the scene – a relatively small guest bedroom. The room is mainly consumed by a double bed, with just enough space to walk round it comfortably. The carpet is relatively thick by modern standards – it’s the colour and texture of a plush teddy bear! The home-owners' vacuum cleaner is a Numatic Henry - a straight-suction canister totally unsuited to their VERY large house, which is carpeted throughout. The carpet has never been cleaned with the aid of a revolving brush.

All those years of feet passing over the carpet, grinding and wearing at the pile...let the drama begin!

Post# 66447 , Reply# 1   4/15/2009 at 05:33 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Canister full x1. In fact, it's not x1, this picture is actually x3 - the first two times, I didn't take pictures because I wasn't aware what a saga this would become!

Post# 66448 , Reply# 2   4/15/2009 at 05:33 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Canister full x4...

Post# 66449 , Reply# 3   4/15/2009 at 05:35 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Vacuuming away...remember, this is only the space AROUND the bed - the majority of the floor is covered by the bed itself!

Post# 66450 , Reply# 4   4/15/2009 at 05:36 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Canister full x5...

Post# 66451 , Reply# 5   4/15/2009 at 05:37 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Still vacuuming...

Post# 66452 , Reply# 6   4/15/2009 at 05:38 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Canister full x6...

Post# 66453 , Reply# 7   4/15/2009 at 05:40 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Canister full x7! And at this point, I stopped because I had to get on with cleaning the rest of the house!

Post# 66454 , Reply# 8   4/15/2009 at 05:42 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

And finally...the results!

Post# 66456 , Reply# 9   4/15/2009 at 05:59 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Now...some observations:

 First off, surely it becomes evident from these pictures that cleaning by suction alone CANNOT be sufficient. Hoover weren't kidding; a revolving brush is necessary!

Second of all...it has been suggested that the Dyson doesn't compress bulky dirt like bagged cleaners. This is true - it's a side-effect of the cyclonic action. However, the suggestion that the cleaner is 'engineered' to do this as a cynical marketing ploy to 'make it look as if it's working' is desperate at best. Laughable at worst.

Consider, too, exactly how much could a bagged cleaner compress this dense fluff? How many bags would I have got through with a supermarket carrier bag's-worth of bulky fiber? Say, for instance, I'd used my Miele Revolution 500 with the new Hyclean bags...how much of this could they have held? I'd say it would have taken at least 2, as a conservative, optimistic estimate. At £7.82 for 4 bags, I would have had to throw away £3.91 in non-reusable dust containers, just cleaning a section of one small bedroom!

The Dyson cost me nothing but time - and not much of that, either! It didn't clog, it didn't lose suction.

~ END ~

Post# 66459 , Reply# 10   4/15/2009 at 06:40 (5,484 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I don't see much dirt there-mostly carpet fluff-the Dyson did pick up much of the "dead" carpet fibers cut by dirt left from the old cleaner-what that carpet REALLY needs is the Certified Pile Lifter!-and probably a good cleaning!

Post# 66460 , Reply# 11   4/15/2009 at 06:42 (5,484 days old) by lux1521 ()        

It looks like it ate your carpet. If your carpet had been blue, half of your dirt would have been as well. Your could have gone over it until you had nothing more than commercial grade low pile stuff and still got the same results.

Post# 66462 , Reply# 12   4/15/2009 at 07:08 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

tolivac - most of the actual dirt came up the first time I filled the canister, and went straight to the bottom of the carrier bag. If you look closely at the pictures of the dirt in the canister, you can see the remaining fine grey dirt swirled within the fluff. Being an infrequently-used guest room, which has been suction-cleaned weekly for years, there will never be a huge amount of dirt in there to begin with.

The point of the photos was to demonstrate the vast amount of 'dead' carpet fibres, as you term it, which lurks within some carpets, even when the owners would claim, 'We've cleaned it every week!' Even a modern, powerful suction-only cleaner can't extract it. I could have used almost any upright/canister with powernozzle and obtained the same results - I only stress the convenience of the Dyson because it does not require constant, expensive bag changes!

lux1521 - it's certainly not my carpet, I wouldn't allow that aberration in my house! I can't stand that plush-pile stuff. As it happened, by the time I gave up and had to move on, the rate at which the fluff was coming out had slowed considerably. I think I'd got up most of it by that point. The first photo of the set is actually of the carpet once I had finished, and as you can see, no bald spots or threadbare areas - just well-groomed pile!

Post# 66464 , Reply# 13   4/15/2009 at 07:17 (5,484 days old) by petek (Ontario)        

A couple of times over the years we had new plush type carpeting in our houses and what you see there is pretty normal. Now had you been vacuuming that with more common or generic bags it wouldn't have cost much. I know if I had new carpeting installed knowing what was going to be happening I would use the cheapest generics but otoh some people, most people probably don't have the choice of picking which vac they're going to use that can handle cheap bags and have plenty of them like we all do.

Post# 66465 , Reply# 14   4/15/2009 at 07:23 (5,484 days old) by turboace ()        

I believe it was all carpet fluff. Some types of new broadloom plush carpet have an amazing amount of cut fibers still in them when they are brand new. I help my partner out by going to vacuum his vacant real estate listing, some new construction and some older homes that have been re-carpeted to help them sell. When I take a bagged vac, I often take my Concept 1. And yes, it fills up the bag very quickly. Since I know I'm not picking up paper bag pore clogging fine dirt, when the bag gets full I take it out, open one of the folded ends and empty it. Then I just re-fold it and staple it shut.

I have also tried my Oreck, it filled a new bag in three rooms. I took the G3, same thing. Finally I decided the best vac for this job is a Sanitaire direct air with a shake-out bag. No worries about bags, and it does a great job.

Even the carpets in my own home, now four years old, produce a lot of cut fibers. Every few month when I empty the CV that is what composes the majority of the dirt. I have the Sentria parked in my office upstairs and use it on that level when I don't feel like hauling out the hose, its HEPA bag is currenty packed with carpet fiber.

Post# 66466 , Reply# 15   4/15/2009 at 07:28 (5,484 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

That's alarming - should I be expecting this much every week, then? I hope I've cleared several years-worth of backlog today! I'd still rather use bagless for this sort of job, and spend nothing! Less environmental impact, too...if it makes people feel better, I'll throw a couple of £££ in the bin each time I visit, and chop down a small tree... :P

Although these photos concern the cleaning of one particular carpet, I have been getting bin-loads of dirt out of the other carpets as well. Actual dirt, not just fluff! Maybe I'll get a picture of that next week...

Post# 66475 , Reply# 16   4/15/2009 at 11:52 (5,483 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
You Can't clean by suction alone! A shocking photo play

Jack,
Haven't you ever heard that old saying "the vac that goes last wins". Just kidding!
I built a new house less than 3 years ago which has heavy pile carpets in some areas. I used my Kirby and Hoovers but I can take my Compact or Air-Way with a straight suction tool and get lots of sand and grit that the Hoovers left behind. I learned this at my first vac convention. I was amazed at what they got up just using a 1950's Apex straight suction machine.
Also saw this happen using an old Rexair too.
I will agree with you that the upright will pick up the dirt faster. I have a Dyson. It's a great machine but it did ruin two different rugs because of the stiff brush in my house. As you would say "on this side of the pond" people would move,replace or update the carpet long before embedded dirt would end the life of a carpet. Thanks again for your fun pictures.

Post# 66486 , Reply# 17   4/15/2009 at 15:36 (5,483 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Oh yes, Rob - I'm familiar with the saying...millions of vacuum cleaners have been sold on the strength of this sort of in-home demonstration! But should the vac that goes last REALLY win by this much!?

Post# 66490 , Reply# 18   4/15/2009 at 16:10 (5,483 days old) by tristar ()        
How old is the carpet?

 I remember when I had the carpet installed in this house it shed like MAD for the first few vacuumings. It seems like the really shaggy cut-pile carpet sheds even worse!

Like you said, a straight suction cleaner is completely wrong for that house. If it's been years and never seen a revolving brush cleaner, I can't even imagine what a machine like my Sanitaire would pull out of there! This house has only 3 carpeted rooms, and when it was installed, I FILLED a Kirby bag (we're talking PACKED here) in each room. I can't even imagine if years had gone by without sucking up that fluffy mess.

Post# 66491 , Reply# 19   4/15/2009 at 16:50 (5,483 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        

kirbymodel2c's profile picture
Hi all, as we said in kirby " You buy your carpet by the yard and throw it away by the bagfull.

I do agree with Jack. Straight suction alone don't clean as good as a vacuum that uses vibrate,sweeping action as well as good airflow/suction.

James

Post# 66498 , Reply# 20   4/15/2009 at 19:06 (5,483 days old) by ridgidvac ()        

I used a Compact/Tristar w/PN & it got out FAR MORE dirt than the Kirby & Lux vacs--they did well in grooming but didn't pick up as much grit as the Compact (I had the VG2 brush roll on the PN) thanx 2 its metal beater bars & stiff bristles. If I put a Hoover Quadraflex PN OR a VibraGroomer 3 U wouldn't believe how much more dirt a TriStar can get out.

Post# 66499 , Reply# 21   4/15/2009 at 19:24 (5,483 days old) by tristar ()        
Ridgidvac

 For once I agree with you! My TriStar will handily outclean a Kirby, and a Kirby will handily outclean a Lux. People can argue the point all they want, but all I say is do the tests yourself! You'll see pretty quickly.

That said, a 7 amp Sanitaire with the VGII brushroll will even outclean the TriStar/Compact. Absolutely NOTHING gets past those. It never ceases to amaze me how much crap the Sanitaire repeatedly pulls out of my carpets.

Post# 66514 , Reply# 22   4/15/2009 at 20:23 (5,483 days old) by hoover_elite_20 ()        
I know this sounds wierd but

 sometimes I feel that when I use my Heritage 2 it does nothing. Maybe it is cleaning but I just cant feel it sweeping or grooming very well or maybe it just needs some brushroll adjustment or maybe it just doesnt do as god a job. The only thing I know is that the elite can still pick up stuff after the H2.

Post# 66521 , Reply# 23   4/15/2009 at 21:04 (5,483 days old) by brandon_w_t ()        
last vac wins

 Again- last vac always wins.

An elite- I would say is nowhere near as good as an HII

The HII is one of kirbys finest- yet ugliest. lol.

Something may be wrong with it if its not doing too well.

Post# 66530 , Reply# 24   4/15/2009 at 21:52 (5,483 days old) by swingette ()        

i could see an Elite winning over a Kirby. The Elite sweeping action is very vigorous.

Post# 66532 , Reply# 25   4/15/2009 at 22:02 (5,483 days old) by brandon_w_t ()        
Well Im not really sure

 We had an elite. -head light and tools on the side (a tol if I recall)

I would say my old HII kirby was better any day than it.

It was ok. Just not the best vacuum.

Post# 66534 , Reply# 26   4/15/2009 at 22:11 (5,483 days old) by tristar ()        
Elites

 While the Elites do have a good brushing action (provided they're the double row brushroll), they lack the suction and airflow of the Kirby. Although the Kirby may not sweep as well, if it's properly adjusted (read: brushroll projects through the nozzle guard) it'll groom well and pick up just about anything. The massive airflow does allow it to outclean the Elite.

Carpet grooming can be deceiving. Just because the carpet is GROOMED doesn't mean it's clean. Take the HouseKeeper for a perfect example...

Post# 66579 , Reply# 27   4/16/2009 at 16:09 (5,482 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        

kirbymodel2c's profile picture
Well I've had a Filterqueen,Tristar,Electrolux Sanitaire and the kirby has out cleaned them all as long as its set up correct.
Also Beater bars are quiet punishing on the carpet and can damage lino.

Why it is true last wins maybe true if you clean a patch of carpet with a vac till it picks no more up or filter pad/bin stays clean then co over with another vac is the better test to do.

James

Post# 66584 , Reply# 28   4/16/2009 at 17:15 (5,482 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
'Also Beater bars are quiet punishing on the carpet...&#

 Not so - that's an old anti-Hoover myth stirred up brands who couldn't offer beater bars because of Hoover's many patents on multiple variations on the beater design. You find it cropping up again and again in anti-Hoover propaganda:

Ohio-Tuec - 'Cleans without beating or pounding'
Compact - 'Gets all the dirt without harming the rugs'
Eureka - 'Gets the dirt, not the rugs'

After their direct and overt criticism of Hoover's beating action, it's interesting that Eureka were among the first to add beater-bars to their brush-rolls when Hoover's patent expired! Air-Way intially tried to promote suction-only cleaning, then tried to rip off Hoover's design, failed, and almost put themselves out of business! It's the same pattern as with the motor-driven revolving brush; until 1925, Hoover owned the patent on that, and all the other brands insisted that it was harsh and damaging to carpets. Then when the patent expired, they all rushed to copy it!

A beater-bar actually causes LESS carpet-wear than bristles, because it's a smooth, polished metal surface. If you had to run your finger back and forth over a beater bar, or a brush-strip, non-stop for an hour, which would you choose? The beater bar, because it's smooth surface which creates a lot less friction than the rougher bristles. Kinder to your finger, kinder to your carpets!

Another point which is important to note is the actual action created – despite its name, the beater-bar does not ‘beat’ as such. Rather, it pushes the carpet away from the suction opening for a fraction of a second. The ‘beat’ is created as the carpet, grabbed by the suction, snaps back against the nozzle plate, launching the trapped dirt into the air, where it is caught by the airflow. That’s the familiar ‘rumble’ you’re hearing when using a Hoover.

Post# 66589 , Reply# 29   4/16/2009 at 18:35 (5,482 days old) by methodistbill ()        
Massage

 All I know about beater bars is that they provide a nice foot massage when I vacuum with no shoes! LOL!

Post# 66620 , Reply# 30   4/16/2009 at 21:33 (5,482 days old) by swingette ()        

Eric you know full well the Housekeeper cannot touch the carpet cleaning ability of the Elite. I can see the side intake being an issue, but Elites have airflow to get the job done. I think you are letting their iffy construction prejudice you.

(ducks and runs)

Post# 66622 , Reply# 31   4/16/2009 at 21:36 (5,482 days old) by tristar ()        
OY!!!!

 I never said the Housekeeper was a good cleaner! NO WAY!!!!! I just said it grooms the carpet well......example!

I'd shoot myself before saying it was a GOOD cleaner! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Post# 66625 , Reply# 32   4/16/2009 at 21:49 (5,482 days old) by brandon_w_t ()        
lol

 A housekeeper? nah. it wouldnt have a chance against most anything. but it is a cool vacuum.

kind of like an electrik broom- worthless for cleaners- but a neat design.

Post# 66656 , Reply# 33   4/17/2009 at 06:05 (5,482 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        

kirbymodel2c's profile picture
Hi, Well I still think there punishing on the carpet and they still can damage lino etc not just metal beater bars but plastic as well.

Anyway any one know why hoover over here in the UK stopped using beater bars after the 80s seniors?

James

Post# 66657 , Reply# 34   4/17/2009 at 06:18 (5,482 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
You Can't clean by suction alone

 Jack,
Check out what my new Oreck XL pulled from one time around my house. This is from a house that is less than 3 years old and has had Hoovers and Kirby's plus all kinds of machines used. I was surprised to see what the little Oreck pulled.
I was under the impression when I joined the club that NOTHING cleaned like a Hoover. Now I know different. This is what makes our hobby interesting.
Always enjoy your post and pictures of your Hoovers.
Rob

Post# 66658 , Reply# 35   4/17/2009 at 06:20 (5,482 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

If you must use the beater bars on a roller brush bar-please use the POLISHED METAL ones only-no plastic.Plastic bars can be nicked,cracked or broken if they hit something hard like a coin or peice of gravel-than the nicked or broken bar becomes a carpet DESTRUCTION tool!I have had this happen.Also its said that beater bar roller brushes should not be used on carpets whose whole surface is cemented to the hard subfloor.They should be used on carpets whose edges are fastened to the floor and have soft backing underneath.the soft pad or backing absorbs the bars effect.Hard flooring allows them to pound the carpet-wearing it.and its hard on the vacuum too.no beater bar roller brushes should ever be used on glued down-non padded carpet .

Post# 66661 , Reply# 36   4/17/2009 at 08:25 (5,482 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

James...they're not. Fact! You've been KirbyKonditioned to think otherwise!

Post# 66663 , Reply# 37   4/17/2009 at 09:26 (5,482 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Anyway any one know why hoover over here in the UK stopped u

 They didn't - with the launch of the Turbopower/Turbomaster ranges, the traditional metal Agitator was redesigned as the 'Activator', which was lighter, cheaper to produce, but equally durable and effective. The familar spiralled metal bars were replaced with a series of spiralled 'lumps', which were far more effective at cleaning the thicker, heavier modern carpets. The Agitator was designed at a time when The Hoover was used to clean light Oriental rugs. Now we have a whole spectrum of flooring available, and many houses contain a wide selection of different types.

The latest Hoovers do not have beater bars. This is largely due to the ridiculous cost-cutting by Hoover's new owners, but also because of the changing preferences for floor coverings in the home. Laminate is huge over here now - hence the growing number of uprights which allow you to shut off the brush-roll for hard-floor cleaning. Bristles and beaters do nothing for laminate, lino etc - there's no trodden-in dirt to flutter out, and the bristles just scatter debris.

As needs evolve, so does the product built to meet them.

Post# 66664 , Reply# 38   4/17/2009 at 09:31 (5,482 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

'Also its said that beater bar roller brushes should not be used on carpets whose whole surface is cemented to the hard subfloor.They should be used on carpets whose edges are fastened to the floor and have soft backing underneath.the soft pad or backing absorbs the bars effect.Hard flooring allows them to pound the carpet-wearing it.and its hard on the vacuum too.no beater bar roller brushes should ever be used on glued down-non padded carpet.'


Quite so! The beaters were never designed for that; they can only work when the carpet is raised from the floor by the suction 'on a cushion of air'. See diagram above! This is the essence of The Hoover Cleaning Principle, and has remained unchanged since it was developed in 1909.

A beater-bar upright is totally wrong for this sort of flooring; something like a Sebo is much more appropriate!

Post# 66665 , Reply# 39   4/17/2009 at 09:32 (5,482 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Rob - your picture didn't work! Could you repost it?

Post# 66666 , Reply# 40   4/17/2009 at 11:00 (5,481 days old) by ridgidvac ()        
Quadraflex

 Did Hoover ever have Quadraflex in the UK? Have Hoover USA ended production of Quadraflex? I think they used it thru Windtunnel series (except Anniv. mdls)

Post# 66671 , Reply# 41   4/17/2009 at 13:02 (5,481 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
Quadraflex

Yes!

That was fitted to our Hoover 'Turbolite' uprights ( two models: one with a separate 'pan-converter' tool set, one without. Honey beige colour scheme). Circa 1988.

They were imported from America. I think they were similar to your Elites.

"Which?" magazine said the British Hoovers cleaned better than the USA 'Turbolite'.

Post# 66672 , Reply# 42   4/17/2009 at 13:10 (5,481 days old) by jdinstl ()        
AMEN, Rex!

 Rex/tolivac said "If you must use the beater bars on a roller brush bar-please use the POLISHED METAL ones only-no plastic.Plastic bars can be nicked,cracked or broken if they hit something hard like a coin or peice of gravel-than the nicked or broken bar becomes a carpet DESTRUCTION tool!"

This bears repeating. Plastic WILL get nicked, as well as over time, and heat -- hairline cracks and ridges. When spinning at vacuum RPM's, it may as well be a series of razor blades. This is deadly on Berber-style or close-loop carpeting.

Polished metal only. Make sure to inspect it often too, for nicks, burs and such, especially if you hit a coin or something hard.

John

Post# 66673 , Reply# 43   4/17/2009 at 13:16 (5,481 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
Turbolite

 Here is a pic, courtesy 'Turbopowerpaul'

Post# 66674 , Reply# 44   4/17/2009 at 13:28 (5,481 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
Suction alone doesn't clean

 This I can attest to, as I once cleaned a neighbour's carpet with a shampooer extraction machine. She had a synthetic, short, looped pile lounge carpet. She had only ever used cylinder cleaners, and the mud that came out of that carpet was unbelievable.

Before I cleaned her hall carpet (identical to lounge), I ran a Hoover 'Turbopower 3' over it. I got out at least one full bag of brown soil - the type you could plant potatoes in! The 'Autosense' feature was working overtime.

Post# 66675 , Reply# 45   4/17/2009 at 13:43 (5,481 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
Jack

 You could have used a Hoover with cloth bag and metal beaters (e.g. 612, 912). There wouldn't have been any cost either, and even less emptying.

A Hoover 'Turbopower' or 'Turbomaster' would make the carpet look even better. They were designed to reactivate the carpet pile.

Post# 66676 , Reply# 46   4/17/2009 at 14:49 (5,481 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        

kirbymodel2c's profile picture
Sorry Jack I still diasgree with you and its not to me being Kirby conditioned!!
If anything I could say the same about you with you being a big Hoover fan!!


James

Post# 66677 , Reply# 47   4/17/2009 at 14:53 (5,481 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Rolls_rapide - I wouldn't fancy scraping all that loose fibre off the inside of a shake-out bag. I do this cleaning all day, every day - I don't have time to mess around with shake-out bags! Also, you can't compare the filtration of a shake-out bag with modern filtration systems. Rightly or wrongly, if I turned up at someone's house to clean with a 50-year old Hoover, they'd laugh!

I was under the impression that 'Quadraflex' was the commercial brush-roll with 4 rows of bristles (hence Quad-); the Turbolite has one row of bristles and one beater.

Post# 66678 , Reply# 48   4/17/2009 at 14:55 (5,481 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

'Sorry Jack I still diasgree with you and its not to me being Kirby conditioned!!
If anything I could say the same about you with you being a big Hoover fan!!'

Ok, show me some evidence supporting your claim, then. Show me the Hoover damages carpets.

Post# 66681 , Reply# 49   4/17/2009 at 15:41 (5,481 days old) by ridgidvac ()        
Vintagehoover

 Quadraflex agitator has 4 brushes & 4 PLASTIC beater bars; they were used since Concept 1 here in the USA. The beaters are actually 'brush stiffeners' that's why they did so much better getting more dirt & hair out of carpets than the 2 brush vacs. Later Hoover USA changed the roller 2 a spiral shaped roller & did away w/beater bars & used only brushes until Anniv. WTs; what a shame! Were there any Concept-type vacs in the UK?

Post# 66683 , Reply# 50   4/17/2009 at 15:50 (5,481 days old) by tristar ()        
Brushrolls...

 Regarding the Elite style brushroll, there were 2 types. One had brushes all the way around, the other is what Jack describes with the 1 brush strip, 1 beater bar. The latter was truly a pathetic attempt at a brushroll....the double brush version cleans about a zillion times better!

Regarding the glued-down carpeting....I'm sorry but NO vacuum seems to do a very good job on the glued-down carpeting. I've used many, many different machines (including a Windsor [Sebo at heart]) on the glued down commercial garbage, and nothing was very effective at getting dirt OUT of the carpet. You can get it OFF the carpet, but not OUT. Big difference.

And no.......the Kirby doesn't do a job worth a flip on the glued down carpeting either. I've used multiple models at our production facility, and hands-down.....the best cleaner we've got out there is a cheap Eureka 1934A fitted with a 4-row Vibra-Groomer II. NOTHING can touch that vacuum on the commercial carpet.....not even the Kirbeast. Even the 7 amp Sanitaire is just too powerful, it doesn't let the brushes do their work enough.

That said, we have to wet-extract the floor 2-3 times a year to get all the dirt out that just falls below the nap. If air can't get behind the carpet backing, it won't clean all the way through. Simple physics.....

Post# 66684 , Reply# 51   4/17/2009 at 15:53 (5,481 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Ah - I'm confusing it with the '4-brush groomer', then! That's certainly not what we had in the Turbolite, anyway.

We did have the Concept series for a while, but they weren't popular. Far too expensive for most buyers. They're VERY rare nowadays - although the elderly woman who lives 6 doors down from me has a Concept One Powerdrive as her main cleaner, and she won't be parted with it for the world! Believe me, I've tried!!

Post# 66693 , Reply# 52   4/17/2009 at 16:42 (5,481 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
No, dear reader, The Hoover isn't hard on rugs.'

 'It is only hard on competitors.'

One of the most iconic Hoover adverts, taking on the lies spread by rivals face-to-face. Sorry the text isn't clear - I find it readable, but if anyone has trouble, I will happily reproduce it for you!

Post# 66696 , Reply# 53   4/17/2009 at 17:00 (5,481 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
You can't clean by suction alone

 Sorry Jack. Let me try the picture again.

Post# 66698 , Reply# 54   4/17/2009 at 17:10 (5,481 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
commercial brush-roll with 4 rows of bristles

You're thinking of the 'four brush groomer'.

Regarding the 'Turbolite':
Are you sure? I thought it had a twin row of bristles embedded in the raised beater bar, as per current USA Hoovers and UK Vax 'Mach'.

The 'Quadraflex' agitator is the one with the twin row of bristles and the beater bar has been relegated to 'bristle-stiffener' status. A version of this seems to have been fitted to the 'Turbomaster' models, albeit with 'knobbly bits' added to the agitator.

The 'Turbopower' agitator is cylindrical, with 'knobbly bits', minus the bristle stiffeners.

Post# 66699 , Reply# 55   4/17/2009 at 17:14 (5,481 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
You can't clean by suction alone

 Jack,
Who would have EVER thought my new Oreck would have removed that much dirt that my Hoovers and Kirby left behind.
This was from about 2500 square feet of carpeting.
I have never had the "wow" in the container like you had when I use my Dyson.
The only old Hoover is have is a 28. It runs great but it won't work on my new carpeting and it throws dust everywhere. If it were only 1948 again and I had wool carpets and horsehair pads again the 28 would rule!
Rob

Post# 66701 , Reply# 56   4/17/2009 at 17:15 (5,481 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
Ooops!

 Since I started the reply, I got sidetracked for a few hours.
I see others have responded since.

Post# 66704 , Reply# 57   4/17/2009 at 17:22 (5,481 days old) by brandon_w_t ()        
Well my

 Rainbow has beater strips in the nozzle- and well- they make a man out of the vacuum. I have never seen a vacuum perform so well.

Post# 66710 , Reply# 58   4/17/2009 at 19:04 (5,481 days old) by hoover_elite_20 ()        
Kirbys vs Elites

 I heard in a post above that my Kirby H2 may have had a problem, and it definitly does not have one. The elite has stiffer bristles and seems to vibrate the carpet more. If you want to know something that will kill a kirby look for a sanitaire, modern royal upright, or a tristar. I'm sure many people have said this before but from my personal experience the DOMINATE!

Post# 66721 , Reply# 59   4/17/2009 at 20:49 (5,481 days old) by vintageroyal611 ()        

I have to agree with Joe. My many Sanitaires, two Hoover Elites,and Hoover Concept 1 and after tomorrow a Concept 2 Electronic will all beat anything else out there.


Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      


Comes to the Rescue!

Woops, Time to Check the Bag!!!
Either you need to change your vacuum bag or you forgot to LOG-IN?

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members Click Here To Sign Up.



                     

automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
 Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals 		Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy