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Thread Number: 46133
/ Tag: 50s/60s/70s Vacuum Cleaners
How does one retrofit disposable bags into pre-Tradition Kirbys? |
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| Post# 475918 3/10/2025 at 19:01 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
I can't stand dump-out bags. I think they're a relic of the past that should stay in the past (are you listening, Sanitare/Bissell?). That said, I like certain dump-out bagged Kirbys, mainly the Sanitronics and Classics. However, Because they utilize dump-out bags, that means that I wouldn't want to use them period. You could of course stick a Traditon, Heritage 1,Heritage ii, or Legend ii outer bag with a fill tube on it to solve that problem, but they simply wouldn't match the machine, and that would bug me. So, I'm wondering/hoping there's a way to retrofit a fill-tube (preferably one for an F/Twist bag), and maybe sew a zipper onto the outer bag. Has this ever been successfully done by anybody here?
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| Post# 475919 , Reply# 1 3/10/2025 at 20:26 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
If | ||
| Post# 475921 , Reply# 2 3/10/2025 at 20:44 by kirbyman65 (USA) | ||
i don't think
I've never seen or done that. I've heard people lining the bag in HEPA material. Here's the thread about that.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO kirbyman65's LINK | ||
| Post# 475934 , Reply# 4 3/11/2025 at 06:05 by thatwasherguy (Kentucky ) | ||
I totally agree about not liking the shake out bags…
That’s one of the main reasons why I hate bagless vacuums; they are a gross mess to empty. I ran into this issue on my Classic III. I wound up buying used on Ebay a “genuine aftermarket” bag made by the Scott Fetzer Co. that takes Eureka F&G bags, as a nest of mice had destroyed the bag and Emtor prior to me taking ownership of the machine. It does look a bit different from the original bag, however. I also recall seeing a youtube video where someone had 3D printed an adaptor from the Emtor of a Dual Sanitronic 80 to a Kirby fill hose. The guy said that he was planning on making more of them to sell, but I don’t think anything ever came of that. Your best bet for maintaining originality would probably be engineering an adaptor and sewing a zipper in an original bag.
Hope this helps, Thatwasherguy. | ||
| Post# 475935 , Reply# 5 3/11/2025 at 06:58 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Lesinutah | ||
| Post# 475936 , Reply# 6 3/11/2025 at 07:00 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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KirbyMan65 | ||
| Post# 475937 , Reply# 7 3/11/2025 at 07:14 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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tolivac
I don't want this to turn into a big war over if they're bad or not like my last thread on the subject, but I simply don't care how much dirt is picked up by a commercial vacuum in a day. I'd rather burn through bags then be content with a poorly filtering setup. I also don't believe that disposable bags fill up super quickly in commercial environments. They may fill up slightly faster than if they were used domestically, but not in a way that Dyson or some other company may lead you to believe. If that actually were the case, I'd just buy a bagless vacuum with sealed HEPA filtration, because at least those have decent filtration, unlike dump-out bagged machines.
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| Post# 475938 , Reply# 8 3/11/2025 at 07:18 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Thatwasherguy | ||
| Post# 475939 , Reply# 9 3/11/2025 at 07:47 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Here | ||
| Post# 475940 , Reply# 10 3/11/2025 at 08:22 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Lesinutah | ||
| Post# 475941 , Reply# 11 3/11/2025 at 09:05 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Here | ||
| Post# 475945 , Reply# 12 3/11/2025 at 09:42 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Lesinutah | ||
| Post# 475946 , Reply# 13 3/11/2025 at 09:48 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Pic | ||
| Post# 475947 , Reply# 14 3/11/2025 at 09:49 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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2
Pic
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| Post# 475948 , Reply# 15 3/11/2025 at 10:00 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Lesinutah | ||
| Post# 475950 , Reply# 16 3/11/2025 at 11:11 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Its | ||
| Post# 475951 , Reply# 17 3/11/2025 at 12:08 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Lesinutah | ||
| Post# 475953 , Reply# 18 3/11/2025 at 12:13 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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U | ||
| Post# 475956 , Reply# 19 3/11/2025 at 12:44 by Human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
H2 conversion...
I, too despise dump bags with a passion, and thus have done several Heritage II bag conversions on older Kirbys. The first was a Heritage 1HD, factory equipped with a dump bag. I initially just swapped a complete Heritage II (H2) bag assembly onto it, which worked great but just didn't look right with the gray outer bag and gray plastics. I eventually replaced this with a proper orange outer bag, thanks to a generous fellow Vacuumlander, retaining the H2 mini emtor and fill tube, to give it the proper look. I did this again with a Heritage '84 that had a type 2 bag system because I couldn't get the original emtor and fill tube assembly back on after I laundered the outer bag. I had really wanted to use the type 2 setup on that one because I have a small supply of type 2 bags I wanted to use up. The last one I did was a Classic III, on which I replaced the original red tartan dump bag assembly, which looked like it ought to have come with a bagpipe accessory, with a Legend II bag assembly. This is identical to the H2 setup, except the red and the gray on the bag pattern are reversed from the H2, making red the more dominant color, instead of gray. It looks quite nice with the red Classic III bag topper installed. I had actually considered doing this with the first 1HD I retrofitted, and likely would have done so, had I not been able to source a proper orange bag.
All that said, I suppose, if one had the requisite sewing machine skills (I certainly don't), and one could find some fabric close to the right color, weight, and texture, one could sew a replica bag with a zipper, using an H2 bag as a pattern, and either taking the spring coil from it or sourcing one for an F&G setup, to finish it off at the bottom to make a more original looking filter bag setup. | ||
| Post# 475957 , Reply# 20 3/11/2025 at 12:59 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Lesinutah | ||
| Post# 475960 , Reply# 21 3/11/2025 at 13:29 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
I agree Rex. I used to clean for a local furniture store and they had two vacuums, one bagged and one bagless. I had to buy and change the bags out quite often on the bagged machine, and I had to clean out the bagless machine often. Both of which became very annoying. So I donated a couple of machines to them, one of which had a shakeout bag. Wasn't the best but I did liked it more as I didn't had to empty it out as often. I have some shakeout machines in my collection and none of which I plan on converting over to use disposable bags. I also do have a Kirby 512 that unfortunately had it's original outer bag swapped with the one that can take a Eureka F&G or a Royal type A bag, I hate it. If I could, I'd gladly swap the outer bag to a shakeout but I also have to find an emptor for it as well so that's one of the reasons why I hadn't bothered to restore it.
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| Post# 475961 , Reply# 22 3/11/2025 at 15:00 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Ok | ||
| Post# 475962 , Reply# 23 3/11/2025 at 15:12 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Anyways returning to the topic | ||
| Post# 475968 , Reply# 24 3/11/2025 at 21:16 by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Pics
Here's 2 pics.
Pic 1 ds50 with heritage setup. Pic 2 pic of a hepa conversion i do. | ||
| Post# 475972 , Reply# 25 3/12/2025 at 11:52 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac
Why is it that when people are recommending vacuums for homes here, they recommend bagged machines, but for commercial use, dump-out bagged machines are recommended here, and the argument of them filling up quickly and bags being expensive is used?? (not saying everyone does this, though). Once again, I do not believe that they fill up at such extreme rates to warrant the use of dump-out bags. You're sacrificing air quality for the money spent on a pack of bags. The only application I can see them being okay for is ones where you're picking up large, clean debris, and not dirt and dust. For example, they may be suitable for carpet installers to vacuum brand new carpet to get rid of loose fibers, and very little if any dust. Anything else, and you wouldn't want to use them.
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| Post# 475974 , Reply# 26 3/12/2025 at 12:41 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Lesinutah
As I've said, I don't want to just use a Heritage ii bag setup on anything other than a Heritage ii. That DS50 doesn't look right with it on.
The one on that Classic Omega shown in that video is the exact setup I'm talking about. It has its original bag, but has an added zipper and a retrofitted fill-tube so it can take HEPA bags. I don't see how hard it could be to replicate that. I suppose if I were to do it, I'd start by experimenting on my Dual Sanitronic 50 (it already has a mis-matched bag to begin with, so I want to replace it anyway), then get a machine like a Classic III or 1CR and do the same thing. | ||
| Post# 475975 , Reply# 27 3/12/2025 at 13:33 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Commercial buildings have a filtration code unlike residential homes, they shouldn't be a problem for commercial use.
Commercial buildings track in more fine dust that'd easily plug up the pores on a disposable bag, definetly a problem for me with going through a ton of bags and run out of stock as that's happened to me before. You ought to reread one of your old threads from Bill (vaclab) who has scientific evidence that shakeout bags aren't as bad as you think. In fact that bagless machine I mentioned before had WAY worse filtration than the shakeout machine. That picture you shared I remember came from Vacuum Wars who's misleading with his tests and I think bias, I'd much rather listen to Bill than Vacuum Wars. www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bi... | ||
| Post# 475977 , Reply# 28 3/12/2025 at 14:01 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac
First of all, you're using my old thread from 2 years ago about why I despise dump-out bags. That thing was hot trash, and I don't agree with a lot of things I said in it.
Secondly, maybe VacuumWars isn't the most accurate or scientific vacuum reviewer on Youtube, but the simple fog test shows that it doesn't filter well. How and why you'd fabricate that result is beyond me. Heck, my school had the EXACT SAME MACHINES as Vaclabs, and I can recall them having copious amounts of caked dust all over them. I've seen other Sanitares in similar states. Now, some of it might just be because of kicked up dust from the roller that clinged to the machine, but I think most of it is from the awful filtering of the machine. Thirdly, certain businesses accumulate a lot of fine dust in their facilities, and instead of the vacuum filtering it out of its exhaust air, it's just blowing it back into the air you breathe. Now, maybe in some places the HVAC is pretty good about filtering it out of the air, but am I gonna rely solely on it to do so? Absolutely not. For all I know, that HVAC system is as nasty and under maintained as the Sanitare that I'm hypothetically using. | ||
| Post# 475985 , Reply# 29 3/12/2025 at 17:52 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Here are some examples of what I'm talking about (the middle one is from my old school)
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| Post# 475987 , Reply# 30 3/12/2025 at 18:38 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Vacuums aren't designed to vacuum up fog, you could try but that's better reserved for a air purifier. This proves my point that the fog test from Vacuum Wars is misleading, what I'm looking for is what I can't see with a naked eye and Bill proved that to me with a particle counter. Not a fog machine that's only designed to be used for events. Sounds like your school hadn't properly cleaned out the bags if they're covered with alot of dust as that's never happened to me before. I wash mine after dumping them out with no issues. As what Bill said, not HEPA rated. But I'd still buy one for myself, definitely over anything that Walmart has in their isles today. What I'd prefer is having a machine that uses a reusable shakeout bag that looks like a disposable one, my Bissell Big Green canister has one of those on that it came with when I bought the machine new. Overall, this hasn't and never will change any of my views on shakeout machines.
Anyways, thanks for the discussion:) | ||
| Post# 475990 , Reply# 31 3/12/2025 at 21:21 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac
The point of the fog test is to test how well vacuums can filter and seal allergens that are 5 microns or bigger (particles that you can see with the naked eye). If it can't filter 5 microns or below, then what makes you think it's going to filter anything smaller? Sure, air purifiers are good machines for keeping good air quality, but I wouldn't want to rely on them (or the HVAC) solely for keeping the air clean.
The dump-out bags needing to be washed out does not help your point. Maybe my school's janitorial staff was negligent in terms of maintenance, but washing the bags just creates more downtime for when they're washed and dried. You could buy an extra set of dump-out bags, but at that point, you could do the same thing with a decent bagless vacuum, and probably get better filtration. Now, can we get back to the thread's original topic, or do I need to defend myself again? | ||
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