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Thread Number: 46121
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
If I owned Kirby... |
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| Post# 475778 2/28/2025 at 23:08 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
Like a lot of us on this site, I love Kirbys. They may not be my all time favorite vacuum brand of all time, but they're up there somewhere. However, it needs to be said that their product line has been more-or-less stagnant since the 1990s. They've seemingly adopted the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, despite the fact that the G Series has its flaws that should be addressed. On top of this, the company's marketing and sales strategies have been less than ideal at best. So, for kicks and giggles, I thought I'd go over some of the things I'd do if I had some kind of power in the Kirby Company. Now, first and foremost, I'm not a business expert in the slightest, nor am I an experienced engineer. I'm just a guy on the internet who has an interest in vacuum cleaners, and has opinions, too. Anyways, here are some of my suggestions.
#1 Abandoning the MLM business model. This has been Kirby's business model for the longest time, and it's not great. It's very predatory, both for the consumer and the sellers. For the consumers, they'll in a lot of cases have to deal with extremely pushy door-to-door salespeople that won't leave until they make a sale. Oh, and that's on top of Kirbys being typically sold to the elderly and low-income, which I'm sure you can see why that's messed up. I'm not saying all Kirby salespeople are like this, but there have been many accounts of these kinds of them. Speaking of which, for the salesperson's side, they may in a sense "be their own boss", but that also means taking on most of the responsibilities of one. It's seemingly extremely hard to make decent gains as a Kirby salesman from what I've heard, at least in a non forceful/predatory way. Now again, that's not to say that statement is a blanket one, as I think it depends on the local Kirby distributors and their practices. In any case, I think the MLM model should be tossed out by the company, and the machines should be sold in a more modern way, such as online. Thankfully, it seems as though Kirby is going that route, as you can purchase the Avalir Platinum online, and/or schedule a demo on your own time, which I think is a step in the right direction. I'd also open up to them being sold in vacuum stores, just as Riccars, Sebos, and other luxury brands do. With all that out of the way, I'd now like to talk about how I'd revise the G-Series tooling with future Kirby models. #2 Getting rid of the Tech-Drive system. This one kind of pains me to want gone, because it's a feature that I really do enjoy on my Ultimate G. However, I feel as though it's better for the average consumer that it be omitted, as it only makes carrying them even more strenuous than on older ones. On top of it, it's simply another thing to break in the machine. #3 Adding sound-deadening in the motor housing. I get that Kirbys are trying to be traditional (no pun intended) with all of their quirks that separate them from today's machines. However, I'm not sure what generation (again, no pun intended) would want to listen to a screaming vacuum while they use it in high speed mode, I know I don't. Would a little bit of foam padding around the motor be too much to ask for? You're already charging $1,000+ for your vacuums, and yet I've found Sharks much more pleasant to listen to than them. #4 introducing new accessories/reintroducing retired accessories Once again, I get Kirby wants to do things like how they used to, but I think things like the shampooer need to be revised. Most companies have abandoned the dry-foaming technique and moved onto extraction, which I think Kirby needs to as well. In fact, I even designed my own take on an extraction-based Kirby Shampooer. It's just some rough sketches, but they show that one is possible. This extraction system could also double as a floor cleaner/traditional wet-dry vac, which would be a lot more useful and versatile than their current shampooer offering, in a similar vain to a VAX or a Bissell Big Green canister. Also, I think that Kirby should reintroduce the Heritage 1's Turbo Groom attachment. I could totally see people being interested in such a product today to avoid spending money on regular haircuts. I may be missing something here, but I can't really understand why they even retired it so early. Regardless, it seems like something that people would be interested in buying today. I also see room for development of brand new accessories by them. For example, what if they sold their own pet-grooming kit, or maybe a new mode that does the job of some other household appliance? Finally for this section, I think the sander should be retired. It may be useful, but I don't think being intended for use with a household vacuum cleaner is a great idea, due to the risk of damage to the machine in a workshop/DIY environment. I think such a tool is better suited for a Shop-Vac, or something more heavy-duty. #5 bring back the tool caddy I simply don't like the look of the Avalir's duffel-bag for the tools. That being said, if the tool caddy were to come back, I'd want it to be slightly larger, as I have trouble storing all of my Ult. G's tools in it. I'm thinking something more akin to the Heritage 2. #6 improve the power-nozzle design I've heard testimonials that the square shape of the G-Series nozzles creates turbulence that can cause dirt to not be sucked into the fan. I think this is true, but I've only had stuff like sand get caught in my G7's head, not much besides that. So, I think Kirby should probably go back to more aero-dynamic nozzle desgins. Whether that be with changing the inside of the G series nozzle, or designing a new shape of nozzle together. #7 Give the machines better graphic designs/color schemes/handles One thing that I really love about Kirbys is the graphic design for their machines. I love the patterns and colors of the G3-Sentria II, as well as the pre-tech drive machines. While I don't hate the design of the Avalir 1 and 2, they're not great (don't even get me started on the Platnium Edition). I especially don't like their hollowed-out handles, as they just look cheap and lazy (speaking of which, I'd also go back to making the bottom plates metal, but that's besides the point). In short, there should be a better handle on the next machine (preferably with the coin-holder reintegrated), and more vibrant colors, not just 90% black with some other color (especially not grey). Some more funky patterns would also be nice, not just a bunch of K's and junk. These are all of the ones I can think of at the moment. If you have any suggestions/additions to this, feel free to share! | ||
| Post# 475786 , Reply# 1 3/1/2025 at 10:06 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Here's s more detailed view of my sketches
View Full Size
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| Post# 475787 , Reply# 2 3/1/2025 at 10:07 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Wait nvm they're the same | ||
| Post# 475808 , Reply# 3 3/3/2025 at 02:25 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
I agree that they should change a bit with how they're selling Kirbys nowadays. My grandparents were "forced" to give up on their two brown Kirbys for a G4 back in 1994 which I didn't like. But if it weren't for that, the G4 probably would've not been my favorite tech drive Kirby. Retailers, dealers, and online is how I'd shop for products anyways. They were selling Kirbys at Costco at one point but I don't know if they're still doing that today. Kirby was supposed to sell factory rebuilt machines to vacuum stores but so far that hasn't happened and Kirby at this time isn't selling factory rebuild units themselves, they told me this a few weeks ago.
Abandoning the tech drive I don't think would be a wise move. In fact they added a tech drive in the first place because consumers complained that their non self propelled Kirbys were too hard to push on their carpets despite them being lighter to carry than the tech drive models. Actually that's how my neighbors replaced their Heritage II with a G5. Shag has been quite popular again these days, my Kirbys or Hoovers are difficult to use on shag unless if I had the self propelled on. Yes it's another thing that can break on a machine, however my grandparent's G4 never had any issues. Actually I find them more reliable and easier to fix than on the Hoover Windtunnels. So I don't see how they can get away without it, unless if they adopted Royal's metal upright design. If they can find a way to make the Kirbys more quieter, then I'm all for it. To me, I never had a problem with the noise. I've heard worse before. One of the older accessories you can still buy today called the Rug Rat, they actually leased them from Vacuflo until they're able to make their own Zipp Brush. WAY cheaper as well and fits perfectly with the Avalir Platinum. Kirby sanders aren't just for sanding, their can also be used as a polisher which believe it or not, consumers are buying and using it. I asked about the sander a while ago and apparently there's still a market for it but it doesn't have to be used just only on Kirbys. I like that Kirby abandoned the storage caddy, thought that was a great move. I find more advantages with the cloth bag over the caddies. I also agree they should redesign the nozzle. Though I will say though that they're easier to sand and polish than the older models but it's something I'd be willing to give up on as long as the brushrolls don't rattle like on the older models. They're a reason why the Avalirs are blackish nowdays. Black is actually a cheaper color to make, they're trying to cut costs. As much as I'd love for them to go back to making same colored parts on their older models like the DS80, it just won't happen. There's also a reason why the handles look the way they are today, they're actually designed for people with back problems myself included so this was a huge improvement for me. If there's one other thing I'd love to see Kirby do which I know won't happen again is bringing back the F style Micron Magic HEPA paper bags, Kirby is one of the only few vacuums where I'd prefer using paper over cloth bags. | ||
| Post# 475814 , Reply# 4 3/3/2025 at 11:54 by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
I was very excited when I saw those patents for the avalir and then seeing all the cool rumours about it and how it was going to be different but of course it’s Kirby and there was a part of me that thought there’s no way Kirby would do that and then I saw pictures of it and I was disappointed but yet again it’s Kirby I don’t think we will ever see a totally brand new redesigned Kirby they will just change bits here and there like with the platinum just a colour change nothing new I would l would love to see a way like on the patents a way to attach the hose with out having to take of the nozzle
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Post# 475832 , Reply# 5 3/4/2025 at 13:25 by gottahaveahoove  (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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I do like | ||
| Post# 475842 , Reply# 6 3/5/2025 at 11:00 by Human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
One of the things Kirby's new owners, Right Lane Industries, has gotten right is to abandon the coercive door-to-door sales model. Even though I was mightily impressed as a ten-year-old with a home demonstration of a Classic Omega in our living room, I would never let a Kirby salesman into my home today. I honestly believe most successful salespeople are at least somewhat sociopathic, in that they do not fully relate to their customers as human beings.
I have to disagree on the Tech Drive. It is an essential part of what makes a Kirby a Kirby--at least for the past 35 years. Kirbys are inherently big, heavy behemoths, but the Tech Drive makes them much more user friendly. I fully agree on the turbo brush. It's one of the best air driven brushes I've ever used. That said, one thing to bear in mind about the Zipp brush is it's not really a vacuuming attachment; it's more of a scrubbing attachment. I think many people misunderstand that and thus have unrealistic expectations. That said, they should at least offer both. I also agree about the tool caddy. I much prefer it to a duffel bag. That said, I don't own an Avalir, so I've never had to put up with that particular accessory. Unfortunately, I get the sense that Right Lane Industries has little interest in innovating the Kirby brand. I believe they're just going to keep on with the status quo for as long as they can, and then eventually just shut it down and sell off the intellectual property once it becomes unsustainable. | ||
| Post# 475868 , Reply# 7 3/6/2025 at 12:28 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac
I totally agree. Kirby's trade-in program that they force onto their customers is kind of scummy, especially if they're trying to get people to trade in an older G Series Machine for an Avalir. They'd just be buying virtually the same machine again! Also, people just like having different vacuums in different parts of their home, instead of dragging one machine all over the house. Like I said, I feel as though consumers should be able to choose if they want an in-home demo or not, instead of them presumably just showing up on their doorstep and not leaving for 5 hours.
-I get that the Tech Drive's purpose is to make the machines easier to push, and it does really well, but it adds extra weight to the machine. Nowadays when people complain about Kirbys, their biggest complaint is the weight. Up until the Heritage 1, Kirby put in suction relief valves on the top of their power nozzles. Why they got rid of them is beyond me, but I think those would work better at making them easier to push on plush carpeting than a self-propel, without adding extra weight/complexity to the machine. -I know that the sanders can also be used for buffing, polishing, scouring, and massaging (which is kind of weird for a tool like this ngl), I again just don't think the sanding portion is the best fit for the machine. In those video owner's manual VHS tapes that Kirby made for their machines, they always show them in workshop/utility areas of the houses that they film in, impyling that's where they expect you to use it. Me personally, I wouldn't want to risk getting my Kirby covered in sawdust, or some other powdery stuff you'd find in a workshop (no this isn't a Breaking Bad reference). If I did have one, and I were to actually use it in a shop, I'd use it a Shop Vac, a dust collector, or something similar. Every other feature of the sander I could more-or-less me myself using with a kirby in my home (same with the sander portion itself, just not out in a shop). -The reason I don't like the duffel bags over the storage caddies is because they just seemed a lot neater and tidier. Everything has its place in it. The wands go on the very left and right holes, the wall/ ceiling and surface nozzles go in the two front holes, the crevice tool goes in the oval-shaped hole, and the dusting and upohlstery tools go in the holes right beside it. Everything else goes in the holder below the holes. That's not to say I think the caddies needed improvement, though. I wish they were a bit larger to better fit the larger accessories like the sprayer and Zipp Brush. That, and/or making a caddy that's similar to the one sold with the Heritage/Legend ii. -Go figure that most of them use mainly black plastic because it's cheaper. Why am I not suprised? Probably because they made the underbodies of the Sentria ii's-Avalir Platinums plastic when they used to be metal. Still, would it kill them to use more vibrant colors and make a more asthetically pleasing handle like they did with the G3-Sentria ii? As for the Kirby Micron Magic paper bags, I wouldn't say they're better than Kirby's HEPA offerings. When I got my Ultimate G, the previous owners supplied me with 1 Hepa bag, and like 10 or 11 Micron Magic paper bags. I used the HEPA bag first, then the paper bags, but only because I didn't want them to go to waste. While the outer bag wasn't completely coated in dust once I was through with the pack, it would've been preferable if no dust was in it to begin with. I am now using genuine HEPA bags. It seems like the paper ones would possibly filter better than most paper bags, as they seem to be layered more than others, but I still wouldn't recommend them over their cloth counterparts. | ||
| Post# 475869 , Reply# 8 3/6/2025 at 12:51 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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KirbyG6
First of, not to be the grammar police, but periods are a wonderful thing.
Secondly, that'd be a cool thing. Although, I'm pretty sure Royal did exactly that with their machines, but since they're gone, maybe it's fair game? I wasn't around to witness the unveiling of the Avalir 1 and 2, but I was for the Platnium Edition. This is probably one of, if not, the laziest new Kirby model they company has ever conceived. At least with past models they would change the design of something (however minute it was) and the name after 2 uses, but here, all they did was change the color, and it wasn't even an appealing one!! | ||
| Post# 475870 , Reply# 9 3/6/2025 at 13:16 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Human
I'm sure not all of them are sociopaths, but there are definitely some bad actors in the mix. I was actually thinking about becoming a Kirby Salesman when I was younger, but I canned it after everything I heard about hard it is to actually make decent money off it (though I was only planning on doing it as a side-hustle). Plus, it didn't seem right to be selling a machine for thousands of dollars when that same machine would simultaneously be sold on Facebook Marketplace for a 10th of that price.
-Maybe the weight is part of the whole "traditional" vibe that Kirby wants to go for with their machines, but I can only see that being desirable for people who want a workout while they vacuum, and it's CERTAINLY not appropriate for grandma. -I'm not sure what you mean by the Zipp Brush not being a turbo tool, but rather a "scrubbing attachment". It absolutely is a turbo tool, and Kirby advertised as such from the beginning. Maybe you're thinking of the sander? -Maybe the duffel bag could be an optional accessory that Kirby could sell on their website, while still selling the caddy with their machines. Idk. -I'm not giving up hope on Kirby making meaningful changes. Maybe the brand will get sold to a company that actually cares about it, and will make said meaningful changes. CLICK HERE TO GO TO AmtrakSebo1997's LINK | ||
| Post# 475873 , Reply# 10 3/6/2025 at 14:30 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Yes they do add weight to the machine with tech drive, in fact my grandparents grew tired of carrying their G4 as a result. But I did founded a solution to that and I simply got them another G4 for the basement. No more carrying up and down the stairs. Even one floor apartments shouldn't have this issue, it matters more by how it pushes or pulls. My grandparents also owned a Tradition and despite having a suction release valve, it still wasn't easier to push or pull than their G4 even on the lowest carpet (that's a fact). Royal was able to get away with not having a self propelled, I liked those better than any Kirby.
Sanders are an option to get, you don't have to buy one with your Kirby. My grandparents never got one or any of the other special accessories. Just because one person may not care about it doesn't mean they should go away cause that'd make other consumers upset if the market is still there. This is like when Speed Queen got rid of their classic top load washing machines where they later got major backlash from consumers that eventually they were forced to bring them back. I like cloth bags more because it makes carrying and storage much easier over the caddies. I don't dislike caddies, I find them more cumbersome to carry or store. In my opinion, yes offering a whole different color that'd cost extra and getting rid of the back saver handle I know for certain I wouldn't buy. Going back to Speed Queen, they recently came out with a new color option BUT it's even more expensive. Why on earth would I want to pay extra for something in a different color that works exactly the same as the original? Doesn't make alot of sense to me. Especially since Kirbys are super pricey and it doesn't help that inflation forced them to raise the MSRP. And getting rid of the back saver handle just because one person doesn't like it, again this could cause some backlash. The fact of the matter is the Avalir handle again helps for consumers with back issues myself included. I hated the Sentria handles (not just looks wise), awkward and didn't help with my back. And I much as I liked the looks of the G3 style handle, those for a fact don't help with my back either. Having used all tech drive handles, the Avalirs are by far the best ones for me. I don't use cloth bags on my Kirbys anymore because they are pricier. The problem I have is Kirbys smell regardless what bag I'd use. No matter what I'd do, I can't get the odors to go away not even with the charcoal bags that Kirbys used to sell. The only solution I'd do is to wash the outer bag and replace the disposable bag but it's only for short term. The fact of the matter is I ended up burning more on cloth bags than I do with paper. And unfortunately they don't offer paper bags anymore for the F style machines. If cloth bags were priced similarly as the paper bags, that would've been a whole different story for me. Anyways, that's my two cents. | ||
| Post# 475875 , Reply# 11 3/6/2025 at 16:42 by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 475891 , Reply# 13 3/7/2025 at 13:26 by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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