Thread Number: 45723  /  Tag: Pre-1950 Vacuum Cleaners
Kirby Model 4C 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 472622   8/5/2024 at 17:45 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        

My wife and I were in Ohio for the weekend and I was thrilled to find this Kirby model 4C while we were in town. This came from a beautiful old building that used to be CJ Duncan Jewelry Store in Massillon Ohio. The seller said that this vacuum was likely purchased for use in the store and has been there since new. There were also two antique Hoovers. A model 102 and a model 700. I decided to pass on those two. This Kirby looks to be mostly original and complete but I’m not sure about the plugs on the cord. Can anyone confirm if these are original? What is the best way to clean these bags without harming them? Also, is there any way to preserve the rubber bag clamp cover. It is intact but starting to stiffen up and has a crack. The rest of the rubber parts appear to be in great condition. I’m really excited to bring this one back to its former glory.

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Post# 472623 , Reply# 1   8/5/2024 at 17:46 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472624 , Reply# 2   8/5/2024 at 17:48 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472625 , Reply# 3   8/5/2024 at 17:49 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472626 , Reply# 4   8/5/2024 at 17:50 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472627 , Reply# 5   8/5/2024 at 17:50 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472628 , Reply# 6   8/5/2024 at 17:51 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472629 , Reply# 7   8/5/2024 at 17:52 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472630 , Reply# 8   8/5/2024 at 17:52 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472631 , Reply# 9   8/5/2024 at 17:54 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472632 , Reply# 10   8/5/2024 at 19:00 by Human (Pines of Carolina)        
Quite a find...

 human's profile picture
Thanks for sharing. That definitely predates anything I have. My oldest is a Classic III. Cool that it even has the original box, such as it is. I'll be interested to see it once you've brought it back to life. It looks a bit like some sort of archaeological find at the moment. I'm sure the years will fall away with a little TLC. It definitely wants to be kept as original as possible. I wonder if an NOS bag clamp cover could be sourced for it.

Post# 472633 , Reply# 11   8/5/2024 at 19:15 by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
MIVintageVacs

 kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
This was the last Kirby to be made before World War II; production would not restart until the war's end on August 24, 1945, when Kirby brought out the 505.

~Ben

Post# 472634 , Reply# 12   8/5/2024 at 19:22 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thank you, I agree that it should be kept as original as possible. I’m wondering if there’s a good way to get the box clean as well. This machine was set up with the hose installed and the nozzle looks like it’s seen minimal use. The brush roll appears to be damaged though. I will have to keep an eye out for a replacement

Post# 472642 , Reply# 13   8/6/2024 at 15:25 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Can anyone verify if the plugs are original on the power cord?

Post# 472644 , Reply# 14   8/6/2024 at 20:09 by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
MIVintageVacs

 kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Yes, it appears to be the original cord, but it has indeed aged because I can see it's frayed near the female plug end (where it goes to the motor unit).

~Ben

Post# 472645 , Reply# 15   8/6/2024 at 20:37 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks Ben, I sure won’t be using it to run the machine but I’m happy it’s all still there. I just had another look at David’s Collecting Dust website. It looks like his early Kirby C series does have a plug similar to this. The plug isn’t molded to the cord and no Kirby logos like later models.

Post# 472649 , Reply# 16   8/7/2024 at 10:33 by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
Those are the same original plugs that came with my model 1C, as well as my Scott & Fetzer Sanitation System.

Post# 472651 , Reply# 17   8/7/2024 at 14:16 by vacuumheaven05 (Frederick, MD)        
One interesting thought

 Hello all, It's been a while since I've last spoken, I have already spoken to the seller of that Kirby 4C and I am currently considering about buying the machine. I have their contacts and wish to pay them for the price of this Kirby 4C. I hope it will be an outstanding restoration project in the near future.
On one note, I believe both plugs on the cord look like they're replacement ones. Original Kirby 4C cords had rubber plugs that were plain, without the Kirby logo. Those look like bakelite.
From Liam

Post# 472653 , Reply# 18   8/7/2024 at 15:51 by odavid123 (Los Angeles ca )        

odavid123's profile picture
What a great find . I would not mess with the bag only try and clean it with a wet cloth . By machine washing it you risk the print fading . The spring tube that connect the bag to the Emtor is very delicate too.
The cord is original to the machine and so is the box it came in . There were two versions of the bag you have the first version.
You can check out my site for other details on this particular model link below

CLICK HERE TO GO TO odavid123's LINK
Post# 472655 , Reply# 19   8/7/2024 at 17:25 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thank you, I’ve really enjoyed your site David! I will be careful with the bag. I will vacuum it out and use a damp cloth if needed as you’ve suggested. It seems to be in good shape under that thick layer of dust. I wonder how many years it has been sitting in storage.I’ll get it cleaned up this weekend for a better look at condition.

Post# 472658 , Reply# 20   8/7/2024 at 21:15 by odavid123 (Los Angeles ca )        

odavid123's profile picture
Can’t wait to see it all cleaned up !

Post# 472661 , Reply# 21   8/8/2024 at 01:01 by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        

kirbylux77's profile picture
Ben, good luck on the restoration. And yes, like ODavid said, let's see those before and after pics after the restoration is complete please :-)

Post# 472666 , Reply# 22   8/8/2024 at 13:08 by vacuumheaven05 (Frederick, MD)        
Note

 If someone else wants it more than me that's perfectly fine. Be careful with cleaning the bag, do not wash it, the cloth is fine and it could bleed or tear apart if washed. For cleaning the bag, I'd recommend vacuuming it out and or dry cleaning it. I wouldn't want the logo to fade out. Nice Find!

Post# 472719 , Reply# 23   8/11/2024 at 13:17 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I spent some time cleaning up the 4C and all of its accessories. It’s a lot of fun seeing it come back to life. I would still like to take the motor unit apart to lubricate the bearings and do some polishing but it shows quite well as-is. I’d also like to rebuild the brush roll or find a replacement. The bristles are badly damaged on one side. Here are some photos of it after a good cleaning. When I was emptying the bag I found a vintage gum wrapper, a $150 jewelry price tag and several small pieces of a broken bracelet or other jewelry. Amazing the wrapper made it through the fan unscathed and was preserved in the bag for all of those years!

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Post# 472720 , Reply# 24   8/11/2024 at 13:18 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472721 , Reply# 25   8/11/2024 at 13:19 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472722 , Reply# 26   8/11/2024 at 13:20 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472723 , Reply# 27   8/11/2024 at 13:20 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472724 , Reply# 28   8/11/2024 at 13:21 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472725 , Reply# 29   8/11/2024 at 13:22 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472726 , Reply# 30   8/11/2024 at 13:22 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        



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Post# 472727 , Reply# 31   8/11/2024 at 13:35 by Human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
Yeah, that thing scrubbed up pretty well.

Post# 472728 , Reply# 32   8/11/2024 at 14:32 by kwalsh97214 (Portland)        
Congratulations

kwalsh97214's profile picture
Very nice work - your 4C looks great.

Post# 472730 , Reply# 33   8/11/2024 at 19:32 by odavid123 (Los Angeles ca )        

odavid123's profile picture
Just beautiful! Great job cleaning her up . Very rare unit you have there take good care of it :)

Post# 472731 , Reply# 34   8/11/2024 at 19:33 by MIVintagevacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thanks guys! I’m really pleased with how the bag cleaned up without having to wash it. I thoroughly vacuumed it inside and out and wiped the outside with a damp cloth. Now it’s allowed to come inside the house

Post# 472732 , Reply# 35   8/11/2024 at 22:40 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Nice

 lesinutah's profile picture
Job on the cleaning up of your 4c. I bought a 505 that is almost identical to the 4c except the emtor is plastic instead of me t al.
It does show well enjoy.


Post# 472763 , Reply# 36   8/15/2024 at 09:15 by vacmadman (Pueblo Co.)        
Nice

 vacmadman's profile picture
Well done your 4C looks great. One thing I would have done differently is paint the belt cap logo with flat red paint, not gloss. Yours has the bag clip cover those are very rare and hard to find. Wonderful 4C. Thanks for sharing.

Jim

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This post was last edited 08/15/2024 at 10:07
Post# 472769 , Reply# 37   8/15/2024 at 10:51 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Thank you Jim, your 4c looks great too! I did not do any painting or touch up on this. That belt cover is all original. I’m thinking the red lettering on yours may have lost its shine, faded and would have been a glossy deeper red like mine originally. Beautiful machine!

Post# 472770 , Reply# 38   8/15/2024 at 11:14 by vacmadman (Pueblo Co.)        

vacmadman's profile picture
Ben,

thanks for your kind words. All belt caps and belt lifter logos were painted using flat red or flat grey paint not gloss. Pictured is a collection of belt caps and belt lifters. All logos are done in flat paint. Also pictured is my 505 with original belt lifter. Note the first belt cap in picture one is from a Kirby 2C and the logo was done in flat paint. Yours may have been painted in the past. Picture three shows my 4C before I restored it, note the flat paint logo.

Jim

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Post# 472772 , Reply# 39   8/15/2024 at 12:27 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Jim, do you have a NOS belt cover that you are basing this info on? Wouldn’t it be possible that they dull and fade over the years? I am certain that this was never painted because it was owned and used by a single jewelry store for its entire lifetime. It was never owned by another collector.

Post# 472775 , Reply# 40   8/15/2024 at 12:33 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

Here’s another close up photo of it.

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Post# 472777 , Reply# 41   8/15/2024 at 12:53 by vacmadman (Pueblo Co.)        
Belt cap

 vacmadman's profile picture
Ben,

I'm basing it on what I have seen over the years of restoring these old Kirby's and the pictures should prove that. Do you find it interesting that the rest of your Kirby shows some age, but yet the belt cap looks very new in comparison. I could be wrong. Maybe our friend David can help us out here?

Never the less you have a wonderful 4C that any collector would love to have in their collection.

Jim

Post# 472779 , Reply# 42   8/15/2024 at 13:15 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

All good Jim I totally understand where you’re coming from. One thing I noticed is that when I found this vac it was set up as a canister and the rug nozzle looked like it had barely been used. Take a look at the photo showing the bottom of the nozzle. The chrome center portion has very little wear. My theory is that this machine was used almost exclusively as a canister at the store. There was an old Hoover upright that was used there as well. If the nozzle stayed in the box most of its life, it would have been preserved.

Post# 472783 , Reply# 43   8/15/2024 at 21:22 by odavid123 (Los Angeles ca )        

odavid123's profile picture
Jim , when it was new the Kirby logo was semi gloss and faded overtime , the gray was more of a white at one point.as well .
Ben ,
This 4C is pretty complete and from the look of the bag it was kept away from the sun. Regardless it’s a beautiful unit .

Post# 472789 , Reply# 44   8/16/2024 at 22:12 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Umm

 lesinutah's profile picture
I love how photos are rotated and reordered
I attached front and back of my 505 original belt cap, NOS belt cap and 505 belt lifters. I'll let you use your imagination.
Yours should look like my used 505 belt cap. My 505 should be from late 1945 but I've not opened up the machine and checked. I only put because I know belt caps are original to 1c- 1945 505s.
I'd say some people know alot but think they know everything. I'd like to think I know alot but not everything. I'm not talking about Jim. Jim knows quite a bit too.
I hope the pics help.

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Post# 472790 , Reply# 45   8/16/2024 at 22:15 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Holy cow

 lesinutah's profile picture
Fronts

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Post# 472796 , Reply# 46   8/17/2024 at 06:41 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

I respect all of your opinions but I’m still fairly certain that this machine is 100% original. Again this was a single family owned vacuum used in a family owned business. The person I bought it from was the daughter of the owner who grew up in the store and I met her in the old store to pick it up. It was set up as a canister and there were two Hoover uprights that were used in the store as well. Nobody at the store cared enough about this machine to do a cosmetic restoration of the belt cap. I think David is correct that these were semi gloss when they were new. I do appreciate the discussion and interest though!

Post# 472805 , Reply# 47   8/17/2024 at 22:17 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
You

 lesinutah's profile picture
Think it could be NOS non original. You better ask David if the OD of the belt caps ever changed since his opinion fits what you want to hear.
Just because the man speaks it's not gospel.
His opinion is opinion not facts. Assuming u already know. If Jim's theory or opinion doesn't fit yours does that mean he's wrong, nope. It doesn't mean he's right. Believe whose opinions you choose but don't wear rose colored glasses from skewing judgement.

Post# 472806 , Reply# 48   8/18/2024 at 04:13 by MIVintageVacs (Royal Oak MI)        

No Les, I think it’s original to the vacuum period. I think it’s in near new old stock condition for reasons stated above. Jim could be right but he could also be wrong. If you want to go on believing flat paint was used that’s fine. Given the known history of this machine I’d say David’s opinion is correct.

Post# 472809 , Reply# 49   8/18/2024 at 07:35 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Yes

 lesinutah's profile picture
Opinions are stupid things to argue about.
I'm happy ypublove your machine it's in great shape.
Enjoy.

Post# 472812 , Reply# 50   8/18/2024 at 10:10 by vacmadman (Pueblo Co.)        
Thanks

 vacmadman's profile picture
David,

Thank you for chiming in. These old Kirby's are still a learning in progress. Thanks for clearing this up, I stand corrected, thanks again.

Jim


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