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Thread Number: 45506
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Central vacuum install "pipe dream" |
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| Post# 470942 4/28/2024 at 00:06 (266 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
Like A lot of people here, I've been captivated by central vacuums. There are a few people on my street who have or had a central vacuum installed at some point, and I wish to add my house to that list as well.
Anyways, my house is a small,2-story, cottage-esc house. I've already scoped it out, and concluded that only 2 inlets will be necessary to cover the entirety of it. My first floor is entirely wood-floored, and the upstairs is entirely carpeted. I wish to have a Vacu-Valve on the 2nd floor, and as for the first floor, I'm debating whether or not to use a Vacpan ii. Unfortunately, there are next to no reviews on it to gauge its quality, so im not sure of getting it. The kit I wish to get for it is a 30-35 foot MD Stealth kit, although I was also looking at getting a Whirlpool PN (the same one used on Kenmores) as a budget option. For the power unit, I decided on this compact OVO unit. It seems like a good pick for a house as small as mine, and one that's pretty feature rich for something that's $300 and under. Finally, the pipe layout. I want both inlets to be located at the center of their respective floors. The upstairs inlet is gonna be piped up into the attic, and down into my laundry room, where the power unit will be. The 1st floor inlet will have its piping running along the wall that the door to the laundry room is located, and then along the ceiling, and down to the power unit, which would be located on the other side of the room. I also wish to have it vented outside, so that would follow tthe ceiling until it goes out of the wall on the LR that leads outside, which is on the opposite wall of the door. So far, nothing is set stone. I'm not entirely sure if this would be a DIY project, or if I would have someone install it for me. If the ladder were to be the case, then I'd want to assist in it to ensure that it's done right (I've watched a lot on central vac install videos on YouTube, as well as the stuff on Owen Perkins' channel. Does that count as good qualification?) I'd love to hear your guy's input! | ||
| Post# 470943 , Reply# 1 4/28/2024 at 00:14 (266 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
If | ||
| Post# 470944 , Reply# 2 4/28/2024 at 00:22 (266 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Vent. | ||
Post# 470951 , Reply# 3 4/28/2024 at 14:01 (265 days old) by Gottahaveahoove  (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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You certainly seem like you  | ||
| Post# 470952 , Reply# 4 4/28/2024 at 14:10 (265 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Gottahaveahoover | ||
| Post# 470956 , Reply# 5 4/28/2024 at 18:01 (265 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
That's a good choice!
I think it'd be worth the extra if you extended the warranty. I've seen someone on YouTube with the same system as what you'd like to have and they've been really pleased so far. I do recommend venting the exhaust outside because overtime you'd have carbon dust build up in the piping which would give a rather unpleasant look, not to mention filtering outside all the other particles you'd vacuum up. You could if you wanted to use a ActiVac III muffler filter but it'd be expensive to change out and by blocking some air would run the thru-flow motor even hotter. That's one of the reasons why I'd rather have a unit like one of these Dirt Devils that has a bypass motor and a carbon filter inside. Anyways, that's my two cents.
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| Post# 470958 , Reply# 6 4/28/2024 at 19:06 (265 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac
Warranties are something that I've never really thought of much. I figure if something were to go wrong on the unit, then I could just take it to my "local" vacuum store and have it fixed there. As for venting it outside, I already said that I would (and forgot to mention that I also wanted a muffler installed on it, too). Finally, those Dirt Devil central vacs (and other "name brand" CVs like Hoovers, Eurekas, and Kenmores) have always intrigued me, as I like the idea of a company that primarily sells portable vacs selling a CV (even though the DDs are rebadged Vacuflos I think).
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| Post# 470972 , Reply# 7 4/29/2024 at 14:05 (264 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Ah ok
Must've not noticed it. But that's good! Just make sure you have a exhaust vent to avoid bugs and everything else from getting inside, learned that the hard way from my Eureka. Warranties is one of those things that's just nice to have especially "when" they come in handy not "if" because not everything can last forever. Personally, I'd rather have a warranty because not only they help save some bucks on the parts especially a replacement unit if warranted but warranties also help companies put in reports on the track records. Gives me a better decision on buying stuff when they show by how reliable something is. Dirt Devil is indeed made by the same company that makes Vacuflo, in my opinion one of my top three recommended picks for a central vac system today but definitely the very best for warranties. They've been using the Dirt Devil brand just shortly after Royal got bought out by TTI, Dirt Devil is no longer a company today just like Eureka and Hoover. I'm not sure what the future holds with Kenmore cause Sears is expected to be gone for good. But Kenmore hadn't sold a central vac here in over 30 years. The Galaxie GA-100 today is as close to what the old Kenmores were back in the day. Anyways, here's the video I was telling you about.
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Post# 470973 , Reply# 8 4/29/2024 at 14:24 (264 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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nicely done | ||
| Post# 470984 , Reply# 9 4/29/2024 at 21:50 (264 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac
Kenmore has actually sold a few central vac models since their old proprietary ones of the 70s. I don't know any details on them other than that they exist.
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| Post# 470985 , Reply# 10 4/29/2024 at 21:52 (264 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Also PanasonicVac | ||
| Post# 470986 , Reply# 11 4/29/2024 at 22:15 (264 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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| Post# 471018 , Reply# 13 5/2/2024 at 12:53 (261 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Ctvacman.
In all honesty, I really just like the looks of the 14' Stealth head over the other offerings from MD and Lindhaus. And yes, while it's true that my house is pretty small, I think the 14' one would work just fine. Although, now I'm wondering if the single row brushroll is gonna do a lousy job on my medium pile carpeting. However, I'm still not 100% sure if I'd even get the Stealth nozzle. I'm thinking the alternative would be to get a Whirlpool Kenmore PN, or maybe an ET-1, or maybe a Hoover Windtunnel nozzle, just to name a few other options. Whatever the case, I want a nozzle that'll be durable, quiet, and effective.
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| Post# 471019 , Reply# 14 5/2/2024 at 12:58 (261 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac | ||
| Post# 471881 , Reply# 15 6/15/2024 at 13:58 (217 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Some updates...
So... still not much has happened in terms of physical progress... but trust me, it's getting there. In the meantime, I still have some questions about some obstacles that I may encounter with how I decided to lay my CV out.
1. I was watching an installation video for that Hoover Hose Magic retractable hose system, and it made mention of how you shouldn't install the Hoover central vac unit that goes with it in the same room as a furnace to avoid overheating of the power unit. Is that something I'm going to have to worry about with my unit? Am I potentially going to have to move its location? 2. Do I need to check my local building codes to see if my retrofit install complies with them? 3. Am I going to have to worry about drilling holes for the pipes into load bearing walls? Will that cause problems? Here's the video I was talking about: CLICK HERE TO GO TO AmtrakSebo1997's LINK | ||
| Post# 471920 , Reply# 16 6/17/2024 at 10:18 (215 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Stuff I forgot to mention.
So the other day I was vacuuming with my Nacecare Henry 160, and I plugged it into the outlet in my laundry room that I had designated to be where I'd plug in the Ovo unit, and when I turned it on, the lights went dim. I'm assuming that the laundry room light is connected to that outlet on the same breaker then. The OVO unit is rated for a 15 amp breaker, and I believe that breaker is either that or 20 amps. So my question is if having the central vacuum on while something else is being used on that circut (i.e, the laundry room light, another appliance) could possibly trip the breaker?
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| Post# 471954 , Reply# 17 6/18/2024 at 21:46 (214 days old) by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Update:
Remember how I said that not much was made in terms of physical progress? Well, that's changed. I've acquired some clear 2 in. I.D. central vacuum piping! (Or at least I'm pretty sure it is. These came from a box of random pipes that was at a club I go to. They have a dust collection system that they use for woodworking, and I guess they used to have one that had smaller diameter tubing that they used this clear stuff with. It was kind of an impulse acquisition, but regardless, that's progress! I don't know how much of it I'll actually use with my system, but I would like to incorporate some of it into the piping that'll be in the laundry room. It kinda reminds of how Dirt Devil used to use clear windows on the suction intakes of their uprights, noting that they show you "power you can see!" I think it would super cool to be able to see the dirt being sucked up for a split-second before it goes into the power unit.
In other news, I've been once again toying around with the idea of installing a Vacpan with my system. As much as I like the idea of the Vacpan ii, I'm not keen on its look (and that's coming from a guy who doesn't typically complain about stuff like that), and not having an idea if it's a pile of junk or not. If possible, I'd like to just be able to install a normal inlet by my laundry room door, and a normal automatic dustpan in the same wall in close proximity to it, but I think that's easier said than done. Any other wall on my first floor is either an external wall, or has no good straight shot up to the attic, or to my laundry room. If there's any good solution to this, please let me know.
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| Post# 474514 , Reply# 18 12/9/2024 at 12:27 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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Dusted off this project lately
I've been thinking once more about this project, and some of the potential complications that may come with it.
For starters, about who is going to install it. I still want to have some control in how the system is installed, but If possible, I'd rather not spend the additional money on tools. I'm thinking maybe if I bought the piping kit, unit, and pretty much all other components of the system, then if I were to hire someone to install it, it'd cost significantly less. I'm thinking about maybe shooting a local vacuum store chain near me that sells Vacuflo and Beam systems an E-mail about it, and seeing what they say. However, my dad says it'd still be an astronomical cost for the labor either way. Would that likely be the case? In addition to this, I've had some concerns about my chosen placement of the power unit, and the installation process. As I said in the first post of this thread, I've watched a lot of central vacuum installation videos on Youtube, and that's where I've gotten most of my knowledge on them from. However, one thing that I'm still uncertain about is obstacles inside the walls. They often say that you should drill pilot holes with coat hanger wires for bits, but that doesn't help much in terms of obstacle avoidance. I'm not worried about running into plumbing, but I don't want to accidentally drill into some electrical wires or something. Are there any good ways of finding obstacles (besides studs, of course) without tearing open walls? A while back, I watched that installation video for the Hoover Hose-Magic system. Not because I plan on installing one, too (though I kind of wish I could), but just to gain any additional insight on things. Well, I did, just not what I was hoping for. The video made mention of how you shouldn't install their power unit in a "heat-producing area, such as an attic or furnace room". Well, my heater system for the house is in the laundry room, so that's got me a bit concerned. There are vents in the room that lead out of it and into the front of the house that I presume are in place to keep the room from becoming and inferno when the door is shut, but would it still be too much heat for the OVO to handle? The only other decent place I could think of to put it in is this closet by my front door, but it's still a pretty terrible spot due to how cluttered it is in there. Before I put this project on the back burner for a while, I was looking into load-bearing walls. Once again, I'm worried about drilling into something that I'm not supposed to, and in this case, it's LBWs, though I'm not entirely sure if I can or not, nor if I'd even run into them with my install. Finally, do I need to adhere to my local building codes for this retrofit? If so, I'm not entirely sure what they are... In other news, I recently went up into our attic, both to get down our Christmas stuff stowed away up there, and to snoop around and get an idea of what I'd be dealing with if the pipe were to be run up through it. I found that all the insulation on the floor was covered up by floor boards, except for in a corner of the attic above our upstairs bathroom. I heard in another installation video that you should cover up central vac piping with insulation to prevent condensation from forming around them when it's cold out. If I were to do that, then I'm thinking I'd have to drill through the floor joists and run the pipe through those holes so they can be properly covered with insulation. It'd also probably be a neater location for them in an already crowded attic. That's another thing, though. Apparently my mom says that the attic floor is under a lot of stress from the weight of all the stuff in there, so she's worried about people going up there. That being said, she did have some people who replaced our bathroom ceiling fan go up there to do just that. I'm thinking 2 adults is likely the maximum it can handle, but I could be wrong (let's hope we don't find out!). Do you guys think she's overreacting, or is that something I should also be concerned over? Let me know your thoughts! | ||
| Post# 474515 , Reply# 19 12/9/2024 at 13:50 by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona) | ||
 Call a local dealer and ask for an estimate. It might be cheaper to buy a hose and attachment set separately, especially if you buy something used or just want a Turbocat. Last year I asked an MD dealer how much it would cost to retrofit a system at my parents house, and I was told it would cost about $4k, however it was likely not possible since we don't have basements or attics in Arizona. It would have had to been done during construction. Your situation might be different since you have an attic. Either way, definitely expect it to be in the thousands. | ||
| Post# 474519 , Reply# 20 12/9/2024 at 19:27 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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BagintheBack
That was kinda the whole idea as to why I would contact my local Beam/Vacuflo dealer...
Regarding attachment kits, that's something I'm a little uncertain over now. While I still really want to get an MD Stealth kit, those things are almost 3x as expensive as the OVO power unit I want. I'm willing to settle for a cheaper alternative, but I don't want to just get any electric hose, PN, and accessories. I want to keep somewhat of 1990s vibe with the system if that makes sense, so I want my Vacu-Valves to be either almond or white, the hose to be a white Plastiflex one with a gas-pump handle, and the accessories to be white unless I decide otherwise. For power nozzles, I'm still considering the Whirlpool powerhead as a budget option, and either the MD Stealth or maybe the Sebo ET-1 as premium options. Do you or anyone else have any other reccomendations? | ||
| Post# 474520 , Reply# 21 12/9/2024 at 20:19 by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona) | ||
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I definitely get that, my ultimate dream vacuum has always been a Silent Master and a Stealth kit. I've actually used the Lindhuas power nozzle on a Miracle Mate, and while it is very quiet, the agitation wasn't aggressive enough and it's not worth the retail price.
Other people should definitely chime in, but honestly, the best power nozzle I've ever used has still been the old Eureka Vibra Groomer III variants. Get one on eBay. That would also really fit with your 90s aesthetic. If you want new the "Blackhawk" I believe is the closest. I haven't used any Wessel Werk electic nozzles yet so I can't comment on that. The Sebo, Kenmore, Electrolux/Areus (PN 5 is my fav) styles are great too but you can't beat a Vibra Groomer on carpets. Something else to consider is buying a Vacumaid Garage Vac and hanging it in a utility room. Not the same, but close, and there's no home remodels involved. I hope I've helped a little bit. I've been dreaming of owning a central vac since I was a kid so I know exactly how you feel. The closest I've gotten has been attaching a 50ft hose to a Dyson and keeping it in a centrally located closet while I clean the rest of the house. It works better than you'd think but it's not electrified and obviously not the same vibe as a real built in vac. One day! | ||
| Post# 474523 , Reply# 22 12/9/2024 at 21:53 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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BagintheBack
I've been thinking about the Vibra Groomer III as an option, more specifically, the Sweep N' Groom variant. However, I personally like the looks of the Whirlpool nozzles better. Also, I've heard others say similar things about Lindhaus nozzles not performing well, which if that's true, then that's a real shame! Of the three amigos of premium power nozzles (Wessel-Werk EBKs, Sebo ET series, and Lindhaus stuff), it seemed to be a good middle-ground between the other two brands. I never liked how loud the Wessel Werk EBK360s were (which to me defeats the big selling point of a CV for me: them being quiet), and while I love the Sebo heads, I don't like their proprietary fittings, limiting the wand's usability. The Lindhaus heads aren't *that* bad at cleaning, right?...
Also, I wouldn't consider installing a GarageVac in my laundry room, as then there'd be no point to it. I have a Nacecare Henry that could do almost everything it could do, and be more useful for cleaning. If i'm gonna install a giant soup can on my wall, I want there to be a good reason for it to be there. Also I think I remember seeing your Dyson central vac setup. It was pretty interesting, I must say. Also, if you ever get a Lindhaus HF-6 power team, I hear you can use standard 1 1/2 diect-connect CV hoses on it, so that's that. Thanks for the help either way. | ||
| Post# 474530 , Reply# 23 12/10/2024 at 12:40 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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We had a SilentMaster with a Stealth powerhead up at our last cabin, it was the best central vac we've ever owned. WAY much better than our Beam at home. Our Beam has a Vibra Groomer III powerhead. It's a good powerhead, but it has some drawbacks. Uses a rubber belt, there's no height adjuster, and the common problem with these powerheads is the brushrolls can get bent easily which causes it to sound even noiser (mine just did that again after replacing it). My grandparents has a cyclonic VacuMaid with a Panasonic powerhead which is technically the same thing that Whirlpool had been using for years, it's my personal favorite central vac. I also like it more than our Beam but even that one has drawbacks as well. As a consumer, I'd definitely pick the SilentMaster with the Stealth as my choice. The Stealth has a lifetime belt guarantee, it has a circuit breaker to shut the powerhead off if it were to get jammed or if the powerhead was adjusted too low to the carpet, a chevron style brushroll which can easily sweep the dirt into the channel, doesn't lift the head up when you're cleaning underneath furniture like the beds, built very solid, rubber wheels, and very quiet. I also love that the brushroll is dishwasher safe and rarely I'd see hair get tangled up in there. Yes it's true that it lacks of agitation, but from my experience it deep cleans just fine as long as you have plenty of suction and airflow. SEBO also makes excellent powerheads as well, personally I like Lindhaus more but either one are great to have. The most powerful powerheads I've ever used by far are the Wessel Werks. Same company that leases them to alot of companies including Miele. I'd recommend that over any Vibra Groomer III or Panasonic powerhead if you want the best cleaning one on the market today. However I also get you'd prefer to have the 90's feel. As much as I love the Panasonic nozzles, I'd recommend the Vibra Groomer III for your needs because parts are now getting harder to find for Panasonic/Whirlpool. In fact my grandparents needs a new motor for their Panasonic but I have to find one used as they don't make those motors anymore or even most of the other parts. If it were up to me, I'd rather retire the Panasonic and upgrade to a Stealth which has also been around in the 90's.
Regarding power units, OVO doesn't really give you the 90's feel cause they're fairly newer designs. They are inexpensive for your needs but either way, I don't like that they use thru-flow motors. That was one of the reasons why I recommended my aunt to get a Allegro over a OVO which is also inexpensive because it uses a bypass motor as it's proven to be a reliable design (doesn't get very hot). Plus they definitely give you a 90's feel cause they've been using that design for years so that's also an idea, my recommendation is to use it as bagged if so. Last but not least on installation, I'd reach out to your central vac dealers or even centralvacs1928 (Owen) that could give you suggestions or tips on how to safely and do the installation correctly. My grandparents have a cabin and unlike their house, it doesn't have a central vac. I looked to see if it was possible to fit one in, from my view it wasn't and I'm sure the builder couldn't put one in either in the first place. And I even looked again one last time this year when it was completely gutted for renovation to see if maybe we could get away with it if we designed it differently, the dealer agreed it just wasn't going to work. So it doesn't hurt to have some opinions. Anyways, that's my two cents. | ||
| Post# 474531 , Reply# 24 12/10/2024 at 15:07 by AmtrakSebo1997 (Vacmasterthegreats basement) | ||
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PanasonicVac
Just for right now, the power head/attachment kits aren't the most pressing issue with my CV project. I would really like to get something like a Sebo, Lindhaus, or another similar PN, but to get one in a complete kit would be even more than the power unit I want. Speaking of which, I get that it doesn't match the 90s aesthetic, but it's going to be out of sight, so you wouldn't know by looking at the inlets and hose kit. Right now, I'm just thinking of problems that may arise in installation.
Also, I've done both of those things. I reached out to customer service of that local vacuum store that sells Beam and Vacuflo systems last night, and am still waiting for a response. I also commented on Owen's video comparing the OVO unit I want to an MD Flo-Master, asking about if it was ok if my unit was plugged into a 100 amp breaker, and about the unit's bracket. That guy's the central vacuum god, as I dub him. Anyways, my main two questions are about having to follow building codes, and if it's a bad thing to have the unit put in the same room as the furnace. | ||
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