Thread Number: 452
21 Cyclone Vacuum?
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Post# 4272   11/19/2006 at 23:44 (5,176 days old) by sudsmaster ()        

I may have dreamed this, or maybe it was a spoof, but I recall seeing a very brief ad on TV one recent night for a new vacuum cleaner with ... 21 cyclones.

Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the vacuum...

Has anyone seen this commercial? Or am I working too many hours? LOL.

Post# 4274 , Reply# 1   11/20/2006 at 00:08 (5,176 days old) by talktotravis ()        
Shark Infinity

I believe this is the Shark Infinity, manufactured by Euro-Pro. It's available in Best Buy and Linens-N-Things. I haven't tried one out, but I've heard it's decent--still, the cyclone technology is not as good as Dyson as it does not filter as well. Again, this is just what I've heard. The resident Dyson experts will fill you in more, I'm sure.

Post# 4276 , Reply# 2   11/20/2006 at 00:41 (5,176 days old) by sudsmaster ()        

Thanks, Travis.

That does look like what I saw flashed across the TV screen, albeit with 24 and not 21 cyclones.

Not thrilled that it's a Europro product, but maybe I'll see one at Target or Best Buy one of these days.

Meanwhile I continue to be quite pleased with the Dirt Devil Reaction D2. It has only 2 cyclones (part of dual dust cup design) but it does great on pet hair.

Post# 4290 , Reply# 3   11/20/2006 at 15:24 (5,176 days old) by myvacsrock (New York, NY & Dayton, O)        

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i tired it ! HATE IT! LOL

Post# 4307 , Reply# 4   11/21/2006 at 11:40 (5,175 days old) by dysonman ()        
Shark Infinity

Manufacturers have to be very careful about the way they make cyclonic vacuums, so as not to infringe upon Dyson's patents.

The Euro-Pro Shark Infinity's cyclones are not tapered, they are like test tubes. The tapered cyclones are EXTREMELY important in that the air speeds up as the cone narrows. The proper way is to make the air spin at 928 MPH at the tip of the tapered (called 'high efficiency') cyclones. In this manner, the MOST fine dust (which is the hardest dust to remove from the airstream) is removed and sent into the bin, and NOT to the filters.

BUT, the high efficiency cyclones are NOT the ONLY cyclones needed for proper filtration. In the original Dyson dual cyclone design (like Fantom, Hoover Fusion, Bissell Volocity, etc.) the first cyclone is when the air comes into the bin at a TANGENT (curve) which spins the air at approx. 200 MPH, spinning the heavier dirt down the parellel walls to the bottom of the bin.

All of the air, plus 10% of the total dust intake, smaller than the holes in the shroud, pass THROUGH the shroud and up into the high efficiency cyclones (the 928 MPH cyclones). In the original Dyson design (and Fantom, et all), there was ONE low efficiency 200 MPH cyclones and ONE high efficiency 928 MPH cyclones.

When Dyson designed the Root8Cyclone system, he divided the air into SEVEN separate air strems (after it passed through the shroud holes) and up into SEVEN high efficiency cyclones, which gave even greater suction and higher airflow.

There was a natural limit on the total amount of air that the old 'dual cyclone's' high efficiency cyclone could process at once. However, the Root8Cyclone system could process massive amounts of airflow at once, meaning the machine could pick up more dirt from the home.

LG was the first to copy the root8cyclone system for the Kenmore Iridium canister (for which Dyson has already filed the lawsuit). Now, Shark (Euro-Pro) has also copied it, BUT, not EXACTLY. The Shark's cyclone system doesn't work properly, and does NOT remove all the fine dust from the airstream.

Neither does Bissell's copy of the Root8Cyclone system, called the Healthy Home model. It lets way, way too much fine dust go to the filters. Apparently, manufacturers feel that as long as they don't copy the Dyson EXACTLY, they are free to make their 'versions' of it. Time, and the courts, will tell.

Interesting that ALL manufacturers are planning to release cyclonic cleaners, meaning dyson was correct after all, bags for inefficient, they leak, they cost money, and they STINK when the dirt sits in them for a week.

Some manufacturers, like Dirt Devil (the Action and REaction models) FOOL the customers, using terms that Dyson uses (like Dual Cyclonic). Dirt Devil has two (one for the 'action' model) SLOW, 200 MPH cyclones and NO high efficiency 928 MPH cyclones. This means that the filters take ALL the fine dust, they clog with this dust, and the customers suffers from the machine's loss of suction and VERY DIRTY returning air stream.
The Dirt Devil models are DUSTBLOWERS. Dirt Devil's copy of the true Dual Cyclone system (as invented by Dyson) is forthcoming this February.

Post# 4313 , Reply# 5   11/21/2006 at 13:20 (5,175 days old) by henrydreyfuss (Ohio)        

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Is the Bissell Velocity a true Dual Cyclone design? I haven't seen it in stores yet here. And what exactly does the Healthy Home do wrong? Looking at them in the store...they look like they shamelessly stole dyson's design. what did they mess up that makes it miss so much dust??

The Healthy Home has that AWFUL Bissell brushroll. For 300 dollars I wouldn't want my vacuum melting left and right...


Post# 4314 , Reply# 6   11/21/2006 at 13:21 (5,175 days old) by henrydreyfuss (Ohio)        

henrydreyfuss's profile picture
Is the Bissell Velocity a true Dual Cyclone design? I haven't seen it in stores yet here. And what exactly does the Healthy Home do wrong? Looking at them in the store...they look like they shamelessly stole dyson's design. what did they mess up that makes it miss so much dust??

The Healthy Home has that AWFUL Bissell brushroll. For 300 dollars I wouldn't want my vacuum melting left and right...


Post# 4327 , Reply# 7   11/21/2006 at 20:43 (5,174 days old) by sudsmaster ()        
Dirt Devils are dust blowers?

I beg to differ. The Reaction D2 has a HEPA filter, which effectively prevents any dust that gets by the cyclone system from getting back into the room. I can attest to its effectiveness; there's none of that overheated vacuum dust aroma you can get from an old bagged upright. The foam prefilter and the HEPA filter are both washable.

I will concede that the D2 system does let some fine dust through to the foam filter. After a couple of months I found it was time to clean it. Very simple, just squeeze under running water. The HEPA filter didn't need cleaning. Overall much less dirt and much easier to clean than the in-cannister filters on most other non-Dyson bagless vacuums.

I'm sure the Dyson Root* system has distinct advantages, but the ease at which the D2 handles pet hair more than makes up for the occasional pre-filter cleaning. Plus at $160 the D2 was less than half the price of a Dyson.

Post# 4385 , Reply# 8   11/22/2006 at 13:46 (5,174 days old) by dysonman ()        
The Dirt Devil "hepa" filter

The Dirt Devil reaction (also the 'action') has been out for almost a year. I've worked on a number of them already, and have many examples of the 'hepa' filter that I've already replaced in customer's machines. You'll notice that the filter cartridge has dust on the outside of it (that's dust that goes AROUND the filter and not through it). Look inside the chamber where the filter goes, and you'll see massive quantities of dust that have escaped the cyclones.

When I call a vacuum a dust blower, I mean that the motor is dirty (dirt in the fans and all over the bearings and armature and fields) and dust blowing out the exhaust. Since the Reaction (and 'action' model) do NOT use an exhaust filter (only the PRE-MOTOR filter you mentioned), the motor in the Dirt Devil gets VERY dirty. At the next meeting, if you'll bring your Reaction, I'll open it up (take it down to the screws) and show you the dirty motor.

Probably the DIRTIEST of the bagless machines is the Bissell CleanView bagless, with it's wimpy foam filters before the motor. The motor's fans get so much dirt in them because of the single cyclone coupled with the cheap foam filters (that almost catch NO dust), the fans get thrown off balance by the dirt in the turbines.

Perhaps at the next convention (Omaha), I'll bring examples of the Eureka, Hoover, Dirt Devil, etc. bagless cleaners and take them apart for everyone to see the REAL difference that PROPER cyclonic filtration makes compared to IMPROPER cyclonic filtration. I'll balance the filthy motors in the 'other' machines with our CLUB'S Dyson, which is five years old and has had TONS of fine, powdery dirt inhaled over those years, not only at the meetings, but by being used in the homes of the people in who's care the machine is entrusted for the year between meetings. The CLUB'S Dyson has never been taken apart, but I will bet a thousand dollars the motor is still spotless.

Then, we can put this question to rest. The truth is out there.

Post# 4413 , Reply# 9   11/22/2006 at 19:13 (5,173 days old) by sudsmaster ()        

Well, I just took out the HEPA filter in the D2, and there is no evidence that any dust has leaked past the HEPA filter. There was no dust on the exhaust side of the filter, and no dust in the passageways leading from the filter to the motor. My conclusion is that no dust is getting past the foam/HEPA filter assembly.

The Eureka bagless is another story. I have one of the earlier ones and the cyclones let a lot of dust get by (much more than the D2). The HEPA filer on the Eurka is on the exhaust side of the motor, which is good for keeping the air in the room clean, but of course doesn't protect the motor. Even so, I have never seen any appreciable accumulation of dust on the Eureka final HEPA filter.

The Dyson has a HEPA filter also, right? Why is that?

Post# 4418 , Reply# 10   11/22/2006 at 19:41 (5,173 days old) by sudsmaster ()        
Reaction Retraction

I took a second look at the D2 HEPA filter, and you're right, SOME dust has leaked past it. It appears because the sealing around the HEPA filter cartridge is not uniform. So I just got through adding some extra felt (very thin green self-adhesive furniture felt) to the areas where it appeared to be insufficiently gasketed. I'll report back later if this fix eliminates the dust leakage.

I doubt that the dust is leaking through the HEPA media, that would be most unlikely. But I think Dirt Devil/Royal could have done a better job designing the HEPA cartridge casing and how it seals against the air passages.

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