Kirby 2C Restoration and Repairs


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Thread Number: 44263 / Tag: Pre-1950 Vacuum Cleaners
Kirby 2C Restoration and Repairs

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Post# 460734 2/27/2023 at 12:16 (422 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Hello to anyone, I have a Kirby 2C with a motor that runs very slow when I turn it on. I had everything inspected and checked by friend at a local vacuum store. They made sure all of the wiring was hooked up in the right position and the armature and fan spun freely. When they tested it, the motor still ran very slow even though it spun in the right direction. He and I concluded that the issue for the motor running very slow was due to possibly something in the electrical. Could the issue be due to a shot field or is it the armature, could the field have bad windings? If so, I will replace it immediately. Even when I tested it for 5 seconds, the same thing happened and I even noticed a burning smell coming from the motor. I do have spare field from a early Kirby, Scott Fetzer machine and I'm willing to use it if need be. Thanks From Liam

Post# 460735 , Reply# 1 2/27/2023 at 12:25 (422 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)
Checkrate/Likes Hmm maybe its the carbons?

Post# 460737 , Reply# 2 2/27/2023 at 12:28 (422 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *reply* The carbon brushes that I have in my 2C motor are original and have not been replaced. I want to know what exactly is causing my Kirby 2C motor to run so slow. I don't know if the carbon brushes are the real issue. From Liam

Post# 460738 , Reply# 3 2/27/2023 at 12:30 (422 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)
Checkrate/Likes Replace the brushes with good, seated ones and see if that fixes it

Post# 460740 , Reply# 4 2/27/2023 at 12:31 (422 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)
Checkrate/Likes If not then it could be the rotor, stators rarely go bad. It is possible but the vast majority of dying motors have a rotor short

Post# 460742 , Reply# 5 2/27/2023 at 12:59 (422 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *side note* What do you mean by a rotor and a stator? Do you know what could be at fault if the problem is not with the carbon brushes. I looked at the carbon brushes recently and they still have plenty of carbon left on them. From Liam

Post# 460743 , Reply# 6 2/27/2023 at 13:10 (422 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *note* The things is, is that my Kirby 2C was working fine when I first got for Christmas and tested it, before I took it all apart for polishing. I don't know what the deal is with it, why it runs so slow, slower than normal. Can field coils get shot, can the windings in fields get shot? The armature and fan spins freely when the vacuum motor is off and there is hardly no wear at all on the commutator. From Liam

Post# 460744 , Reply# 7 2/27/2023 at 16:03 (422 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)
Checkrate/Likes Sounds like one of the wires on the commutator broke. If it were the field it would be acting weirdly since you got it. You will probably need a new commutator or have it rewound. PS rotor is the part that rotates and stator is stationary coils. These are usually terms for induction motors but I use interchangeably.

Post# 460746 , Reply# 8 2/27/2023 at 16:53 (422 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)
Checkrate/Likes "Even when I tested it for 5 seconds, the same thing happened and I even noticed a burning smell coming from the motor." that happening, plus your slow speed, on a motor this old usually that means it is something wrong with the motor windings, they might be shorting out, or just plain worn out. what you are smelling is the old dust and laquer varnish burning off the copper windings as they heat up, which is bad. it could also be coincidence or not if that when it was taken apart and then reassembled it disturbed the placement of the parts and there's not enough clearance somewhere and something is binding. have you given it fresh grease/oil and reassembled it correctly? When using old vacuums that haven't been run in decades, once they get up to operating temperature and you get all that old grease and oil hot, it will run down from wherever it has been sitting and then when it cools, it binds everything up due to it being so old or running off where its not supposed to be. it can also turn gummy and sticky and create more torque on the motor.

Post# 460750 , Reply# 9 2/27/2023 at 18:49 (422 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *But* You don't understand it worked before he took it apart. What could it be but don't mention anything as it ran fine. Get yourself a voltage meter. Learn how to use it and watch some YouTube videos and learn hoe to test the stater etc. Don't try to get coils rewound I've heard more people having issues with motors after they get them back. Get a new coil and get a new armature. The 4 amp pre 515 coil I'd what it should take.

Post# 460751 , Reply# 10 2/27/2023 at 18:50 (422 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *note* I did lubricate both bearings with lots of grease and oiled the bushings. Nothing seems to be binding mechanically. Everything spins perfectly freely when the vacuum is off, but when I turn it on, the motor runs very slow, even though it spins in the right direction. I just inspected the armature and all copper wiring seems to be in good shape, the commutator has little to no wear on it. Do you think the issue still could be with the armature or is it the field? Do you think the field has bad windings or is it the armature? I'm Not sure which one it is. From Liam

Post# 460755 , Reply# 11 2/27/2023 at 20:34 (422 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)
Checkrate/Likes As Les said, a volt meter will determine which part is bad

Post# 460756 , Reply# 12 2/27/2023 at 20:34 (422 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Get* A voltage meter watch you tube on how to test your coil and armature. This is the only way to test and find out what's wrong. Stop telling us it's mechanically fine etc. Get the voltage meter learn to use it and test yourself because we can't do it for you. Don't reply asking questions or telling us what you have told us . Please don't reply until you did some due diligence and tested your vacuum parts yourself. Idf you don't test then stop asking questions because it's a broken record.

Post# 460776 , Reply# 13 2/28/2023 at 08:18 (421 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *reply* I will try to get a volt meter as soon as I can. Quick question, to use it, Would I hook the volt meter up to the foot switch assembly, the power prongs that hook up to the cord? Sorry about me constantly messaging you guys, I'm just frustrated about the situation with my Kirby 2C. I apologize. When I use it and if find out that the problem is related to the armature, I'll Replace the armature. One last question, if it's the armature, will a Kirby 505 armature fit and work in a Kirby 2C? Are 2C and 505 armatures similar or identical to each other. I do know that there are still replacement 505 armatures that I can get from eBay. From Liam

Post# 460778 , Reply# 14 2/28/2023 at 09:14 (421 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *side note* I'm sorry if I sounded repetitive, I apologize and I'm trying to do everything I can to get my Kirby 2C motor repaired. From Sorry Liam

Post# 460781 , Reply# 15 2/28/2023 at 09:24 (421 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)
Checkrate/Likes If only I had known. About 3 weeks ago, I threw away all my vintage Kirby parts as I didn't think anyone had any interest in them and they were all pre-war Kirby switches, armatures, and field coils, gaskets, bags, etc. It seems I have this stuff for decades and no one has any interest, but as soon as I throw it all away, someone needs it.

Post# 460783 , Reply# 16 2/28/2023 at 09:39 (421 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *note* Hey, dysonman1, I'm glad you have gotten in contact with me through vacuumland. You said you threw out all vintage Kirby parts, I contacted you over the phone about a few weeks ago, asking you if you have all the parts that I need for my Kirby 2C. Can you try to dig out what you can from the trash and try to save me some Kirby 2C parts. Do you have any spare parts for a Kirby 2C, such as a field, armature, trim and wheels? If not, do you have any spare Kirby 505 headlight hood trim and a bumper? Last question, do you know if and can a Kirby 505 armature fit and work in a Kirby 2C? From Liam

Post# 460784 , Reply# 17 2/28/2023 at 12:15 (421 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *another side note* I'll try to say less and not repeat myself. I did not mean to make you guys mad or be rude to you. I'll do anything I can to solve the problem. Quick question to huskyvacs, I'm at this point where I may need to replace some component to repair my Kirby 2C motor. Do you know if a Kirby 505-515 armature fits in and will work in a Kirby 2C. I'm willing to try anything at this point to repair my Kirby 2C. my friend at the local vacuum store cannot do anything about it, because he does not have any early Kirby fields or armatures. All he has are armatures to 516's thru the sanatronic series Kirby's. I'm just wondering, can armatures in Kirby's get shot, get bad windings, or do fields get shot also? Which component of a vacuum motor is more likely to get shot, bad windings, the armature or is it the field? I am not sure and need some help please. From Liam

Post# 460785 , Reply# 18 2/28/2023 at 12:27 (421 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *story* The strange things is, I have a Health Mor sanitation system vacuum, that I did restore 2 years ago. I took it apart to polish, put everything back together and tested it, However the motor ran very slow even though the armature and fan spun in the right direction. So I took it to my friend at my local vacuum store, and he said the issue was the windings in the armature had gone bad, gotten shot. So to fix the problem, I replaced the armature with a salvaged newer armature, that was from a royal upright vacuum from the 1930s, 1940's. The armature was very similar, though not identical to the original one from my Health Mor. I fitted it in and oiled the shafts and both bearings, put everything back together and tested the motor. The motor ran perfectly normal and at normal speed. I then knew what the issue was, why the motor ran so slow. A shot armature. Story From Liam

Post# 460791 , Reply# 19 2/28/2023 at 14:36 (421 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)
Checkrate/Likes *If he did indeed throw away the Kirby stuff 3 weeks ago it is for sure in the landfill now. A 505 motor could* possibly work in place of a 2c one.**

Post# 460793 , Reply# 20 2/28/2023 at 14:48 (421 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *dysonman1* That is why eBay exists. You put them up for sale and leave up until sold. It's not that hard. It shocks me you have a vacuum store and don't know how to run retail operations and outsource and branch out your market. The reason why antique vacuums are $600 and up now is because of the fact people threw them all away. There is none left. The reason why it takes people 15 years to find parts is because there are none left. I just paid $30 for screws and $90 for a baseplate for a Miele Salsa that only came out less than a decade ago because nobody had any and the original owner I got my vac from kept those parts for himself.

Post# 460795 , Reply# 21 2/28/2023 at 14:49 (421 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)
Checkrate/Likes Also there are shops that rebuild electric motors, you can find one near you and take it there and have them rebuild and rewind it. I have 2 in my city.

Post# 460797 , Reply# 22 2/28/2023 at 14:59 (421 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *question* Are you saying Hoover300 that an armature from a Kirby 505-515 will actually fit and work in a Kirby 2C. I'm willing to give it a try. From Liam

Post# 460798 , Reply# 23 2/28/2023 at 15:14 (421 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)
Checkrate/Likes An armature from a 505-512 with a 3 amp motor could possibly. A 513 - 515 armature would be 4 amps and not work correctly

Post# 460802 , Reply# 24 2/28/2023 at 17:39 (421 days old) by bikerray (Middle Earth)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Wow It's become a trilogy !!!!!!

Post# 460803 , Reply# 25 2/28/2023 at 18:32 (421 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *The* 4 amp armature would work and does. My 505 was rebuilt with the 4 amp motor and stock coil. The same thing with my 511. The 4 amp coil will work on a 3 amp motor that I guarantee.

Post# 460804 , Reply# 26 2/28/2023 at 18:37 (421 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *quick question* Can Kirby armatures get shot, get bad windings, if they are disturbed. Are they more likely to get shot than field coils. I've dealt with this situation before on my Health mor Sanitation system, now again with my Kirby 2C. For example, if you were to take a Kirby motor completely apart and then put everything back together, could the armatures electrical clearance be disturbed? Could even the armatures windings be disturbed if its taken out of a motor and it has been in there for over 50+ years. From Liam

Post# 460808 , Reply# 27 2/28/2023 at 21:23 (421 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *The* Older 1 speed fields wear out. They used the same motor and field from 1929s to 1953. That makes it 70 years since they stopped producing them. They wear out. Replacements aren't what tge machine came with but it is what kirby repairs with oem standard parts.

Post# 460818 , Reply# 28 3/1/2023 at 09:12 (420 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *reply* Are you saying that field coils tend to wear out, get bad windings more often than armatures? The thing is, since I replaced the armature in my Health Mor Sanitation System vacuum, with a similar but slightly newer one, my vacuum has been working perfectly since then. That was over a year and a half to around 2 years ago. I do believe that the same thing is happening with my Kirby 2C. The problem very well could be that the armature is shot, or just plain worn out and needs replacement. I would like an honest answer please, can armatures get shot, bad windings if the electrical clearance is disturbed, or if they are taken out of a motor that has not been taken apart before? Can the armature get shot if taken out of a motor at all, is there a risk of damaging the electrical clearance in an old vacuum motor, if everything is disassembled and then reassembled? I believe that when I took apart my 2C, the electrical clearance or even the windings in the armature were damaged or something happened. Even though the armatures copper wiring to the commutator did not seem damaged, they did appear to be worn out and definitely blackened, meaning it was burning. So most likely, if it is the armature than the electrical clearance was damaged, causing the windings to get shot and the burning smell to occur. From Liam

Post# 460820 , Reply# 29 3/1/2023 at 10:30 (420 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *side note* I think I will go ahead and replace the armature, in my Kirby 2C and see if that works. I have proven my theory before and I was successful with solving the issue before with my Health Mor Sanitation System vacuum. I can prove it again with my Kirby 2C. Why Not. As they say, Go for It, or Do the Honors. From Liam

Post# 460822 , Reply# 30 3/1/2023 at 11:15 (420 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles)
Checkrate/Likes 1 "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." View Full Size

Post# 460826 , Reply# 31 3/1/2023 at 13:15 (420 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *reply* HaHa, I love that joke you just posted, that's so funny. You know, I might as well be a Mad Scientist, doing Frankenstein projects with restoring antique vacuum cleaners. From Liam

Post# 460829 , Reply# 32 3/1/2023 at 14:34 (420 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Good luck with your restoration* I have a Tradition and a Heritage (with tools) I'd love to sell.. to someone who really likes/appreciates Kirby.

Post# 460833 , Reply# 33 3/1/2023 at 15:23 (420 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *note* I used to have both a Kirby tradition and a heritage 1, but about 2 years ago, I traded them out for other vintage antique vacuums, that I wanted more so. As a side note, I do wish to have good luck with my 2C restoration and hope that a 505-512 armature will fit and do the job, I think it will. I did find a Kirby 510 motor unit on eBay and will get it soon, so I can salvage the armature out of that and put it in my Kirby 2C. Hope and pray that all goes well, I was successful once, but I think it can happen again:) From Liam

Post# 460856 , Reply# 34 3/2/2023 at 08:17 (419 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *trim question* Good morning, I have a question that is not related to my Kirby 2C motor. Does anyone have spare factory original headlight hood trim and bumper for a Kirby model 505. If so, Is anyone willing to sell their parts or trade them out with me. I have 2 vintage antique vacuums, that both work, that I'm willing to trade out for factory original Kirby 505 trim, if need be. If anyone is interested into giving me spare original 505 headlight trim and a bumper, please let me know soon. If I get an opportunity from someone to get them, I will use them to trim my Kirby 2C and finish its restoration. I don't know if the VacMadMan is still interested into this, but I did look at a post recently and found out that electrolux137 might have some really old, pre war Kirby vacuums, Scott Fetzer machines. I saw in another post that he was trying to sell them. Is this true and does he still have any 505's or pre war machines left that maybe he wants to sell? I am very interested and would love to know. Thanks From Liam

Post# 460858 , Reply# 35 3/2/2023 at 09:11 (419 days old) by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *As a simple matter of etiquette when posting�..* You might be better off asking them directly instead of mentioning them in 3rd person on your comment.

Post# 460860 , Reply# 36 3/2/2023 at 09:42 (419 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *trim question* Hello to electrolux137, this is Liam. I want to know if you have any prewar early Kirby vacuums or Scott Fetzer machines, even a Kirby model 505. I saw in a post recently, that was posted in the past, that you sold an early Scott Fetzer Sanitation System with the foot switch. You also mentioned that you may consider selling other early Kirby, Scott Fetzer machines. Is that true and do you have any of them left in your collection, the ones you said you may consider selling. I am looking for a Kirby 505 Motor unit with factory original headlight hood trim and bumper. Do you have any 505 motor unit, with original trim, that you may consider selling or even trading with me, by any chance. I do have 2 antique vintage vacuums that I'm willing to trade out to get the trim, if need be. I am looking to get factory original headlight hood trim and a bumper to finish the restoration of my Kirby 2C. Any answers, please post soon, thanks very much, I am very interested. From Liam

Post# 460864 , Reply# 37 3/2/2023 at 10:56 (419 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles)
Checkrate/Likes Liam, I no longer have any spare old Kirbys. I sold them or in some cases gave them away a long time ago. I also don't have any spare parts for them. Sorry...

Post# 460867 , Reply# 38 3/2/2023 at 12:16 (419 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *reply* Thanks electrolux137, that's fine. Does anyone else have a spare Kirby 505 motor unit, with a factory original headlight hood trim and a bumper to a 505, or just have the parts that I mentioned individually? I would really like to get some trim to finish restoration of my Kirby 2C. I hope to completely finish restoration by this summer. If so, please let me know some time soon. Thanks From Liam

Post# 460876 , Reply# 39 3/2/2023 at 18:09 (419 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *reply* Hmm, I wonder if Jim the VacMadMan is still interested into maybe giving me a spare factory original Kirby 2C headlight hood trim, a bumper and wheels, that he has. He told me a while back that he did in fact have some. I'm always willing to trade for the parts, if need be. Are you still interested by any chance maybe? From Liam

Post# 460877 , Reply# 40 3/2/2023 at 18:38 (419 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes Im Going to say for vacmadman No.

Post# 460892 , Reply# 41 3/3/2023 at 08:13 (418 days old) by VacuumHeaven05 (Frederick, MD)
Checkrate/Likes *side note* If there is anyone out there, any vintage antique vacuum collector, that has vintage antique Kirby vacuum parts, please let me know, the sooner the better. I am looking for factory original headlight hood trim and a bumper for a Kirby model 505. the trim pieces are colored black. I will use it to trim my Kirby model 2C which currently does not have any trim and since original trim to the 2C and 505 are basically identical. I am also looking for factory original Kirby 2C front and rear wheels. They are thinner than 505-515 wheels. If anyone out there has original trim to a Kirby 505 and or original wheels to a Kirby 2C, please let me know, the sooner the better. Thanks From Liam

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