Thread Number: 43258  /  Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Miele s314 Red Star motor upgrade trouble
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Post# 452093   4/27/2022 at 16:47 (287 days old) by Rpkinney (Eldridge, IA)        

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Hi folks…great site and forum! I was given a 2001 Miele Red Star s314 which was in pretty rough shape, but I cleaned it thoroughly, including the older 1100 watt 2-stage motor. It was running perfectly. Well, I couldn’t leave well enough alone and have attempted to upgrade to the later vortex motor, which apparently was standard on the later Red Stars. The pictures show the original larger connector, and the new motor with the smaller connector. I spliced the larger connector onto the new wiring and tested it. The unit powers on and works…however the red warning light immediately comes on after it’s powered up. The speed appears to be very high. I tried 2 different wiring configurations with the same result each time. I would like to get the new motor running my correctly, but it has occurred to me that I may be in over my head :). Any advice or should I just go back to the old motor (21 years old but appears to be rock solid). This site has been a great resource as I refurbished the Electrolux Model L my dad bought his mom back in 1967, the year I was born.

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Post# 452114 , Reply# 1   4/27/2022 at 22:44 (287 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

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The wiring pattern likely changed over the years and changed with the motor as well. These are also controlled by processors and a circuit board assembly so you might blow the board as well trying to use a non compatible motor. Should leave the motor in the vacuum that came with it, and if you want a machine with a later motor just buy that machine.

Post# 452133 , Reply# 2   4/28/2022 at 10:30 (286 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211)        
Agreed

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If it's gonna be a daily driver I hardly think it's worth the effort. Most of the parts for the Red Star (i.e. electric hose, cable reel) are NLA from Miele and there are no aftermarket replacements. And truth be told, the powernozzle it came with was AWFUL with that wire clipped to the side of the pipe, having to be plugged/unplugged every time you want to connect and disconnect the hose. An expensive machine in its day, but a more modern Miele has so many improvements.

Post# 452144 , Reply# 3   4/28/2022 at 18:43 (286 days old) by Rpkinney (Eldridge, IA)        

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Well, I got lucky and happened across images from an old auction for this motor that was pulled from a Red Star. The red and gray wires on the larger connector were reversed from what I had seen previously so I rewired it and the thing worked with no red light. I certainly agree this is outdated, but it was free and with no previous experience with Miele’s, the Red Star far surpasses our old Dyson or any number of disposable vacs we’ve had over the years. The hard floor tool is amazing and it beats the shop vac for cleaning carpet and rugs in the cars. I do plan on upgrading to a much newer model. Thanks folks for your replies.

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Post# 452148 , Reply# 4   4/28/2022 at 21:55 (286 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        

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Congratulations! You certainly got lucky with finding the images from the old auction to guide you. It's not impossible to substitute the Vortex motor in place of the double stage motor, but very tricky.

However, whatever you do, DO NOT THROW OUT THE OLD MOTOR! Definitely keep it as a spare. The Vortex motor does pull slightly more waterlift than the German made double stage motor that Miele made from 2000 to 2003, but it's insignificant. About 95 inches of waterlift for the double stage motor, 100 inches of waterlift for the Vortex motor. The double stage motor, as well as the double stage Ametek motors used before this, have the advantage of being FAR MORE durable than the Vortex motor....while you can use generic bags with a model that has the Vortex motor, it is far more sensitive to damage from dust and dirt than the other motors were. Also, one really annoying aspect from a serviceability standpoint, is there are no spare carbon brushes for either the Vortex or double stage German motor - VERY STUPID of the Germans to put a motor like that in a vacuum that costs $1G! Also, with the models that come standard with the Vortex motor, if the circuit board fails, you CANNOT bypass the circuit board to get the motor working again. In my humble opinion, that's a HUGE design flaw!

Also, while you consider this vacuum outdated, who cares? This was made during Miele's golden period, 1990 to 2004. This is when the company was putting out their best quality products. And while there have been some minor changes, like to the docking system, direct connect hose and wand and style of HEPA filter used, it's still just as nice and you can do modern upgrades to it like the newer style powerheads. The Miele vacuums from this period will FAR OUTLAST anything the company makes today....the S300 and S400 series in particular makes the S8/C3 models look like a joke in comparison. Also, one thing that's really nice about these models is the quality of the hose and attachments....nice flexible Plastiflex hoses compared to the Wessel Werk hoses that started with the S500 series in 2000 that are stiff and a pain to work with. Also, the full size SEB226 powerhead that certain models had available had a nice quality METAL brushroll and bottom plate that were higher quality and much easier to service than the current powerheads Miele offers today. In fact, the quality is so much better on these older models, I personally recommend one of these and setting aside some spare parts over buying a new model - they are that good!

From 1984 to 2000, Miele vacuums sold in North America used Ametek double stage motors. The Ametek 115923 was used in the S200 series and the Ametek 117923 used in the S300 and S400 series. Both motors were identical with the 117923 having a metal ring around the fan opening for the motor seal to sit on. The exact same motor was used in the Kenmore canisters up umtil the late 90s. Both of these motors will draw 10 amps and pull 100 inches of waterlift like the Vortex motor does, and will be much more durable and not be sensitive to dust and dirt. Since the 115923 is still available, you would have to use a Dremel to cut the metal ring off the old motor and use JB Weld to attach it to the fan case on the new motor. Also, you would have to attach the old motor wires to reuse the female disconnect terminals and use a zip tie to attach the circuit board to the side of the motor in a S500 series model. Also, if it's a model without a circuit board, be sure the new motor has the overheat thermostat built in....the models from this time that had no circuit board, such as the S301i, S401i and Miele Naturell, had a motor thermostat that is separate from the motor. If the new motor does not have a motor thermostat built in, the old one will have to be reused.

Rob


Post# 452160 , Reply# 5   4/29/2022 at 07:26 (285 days old) by rpkinney (Eldridge, IA)        

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Thanks Rob for some great information! So far, I replaced the broken swivel hose connector and got a used SEB213 powerhead, which works great. I suppose it's not ideal for my rooms with longer carpet, but I can always get a SEB226 as you mentioned. I will definitely keep the old motor. While this vacuum was pretty rough, it was relegated to garage duty for a long time so I don't think it has all that many hours on it for a 21 year old vac. I cleaned and re-greased the motor and it appears to be in very good condition.

Post# 452188 , Reply# 6   4/29/2022 at 20:50 (285 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

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The real problem is not knowing what the control unit does and how it's wired. But hey, you got it.


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