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Thread Number: 43140
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Why do bypass vacuums have such terrible deep-cleaning performance? |
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| Post# 451120 3/27/2022 at 22:34 (754 days old) by ajr2993 (Bakersfield, CA) | ||
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Simple, because of the lack of airflow. The bypass vacuums have a long hose that restricts airflow and the airpath is off to one side, whereas the direct air vacuums have a much simpler airpath. | ||
| Post# 451125 , Reply# 1 3/27/2022 at 23:49 (754 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
Are you aware however that bypass machines are much more favorable when it comes to all other surface cleaning and filtration? Are you also aware that there are some bypass machines that can outperform some direct air machines? And are you aware that alot of bypass machines are more reliable than direct air machines?
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| Post# 451202 , Reply# 4 3/30/2022 at 22:08 (751 days old) by FanOfVacuums2 (Williamsburg, VA) | ||
I do not think that all clean air or bypass designs do a bad job at cleaning carpet. In fact, there are quite a few that I have owned that clean absurdly well. For example, the Kenmore 31150/BU1017/BU1018 is a budget vacuum cleaner that I have found to outperform quite a few direct-air machines. Most high-end models from brands such as SEBO and Miele perform super well too. You just have to pick a right one.
I am not majorly into citing metrics, especially numbers such as "air watts" and "working vacuum" that demonstrate little about cleaning ability, but it is fun to look at airflow and suction numbers and try to find correlations. As far as those metrics go, there are advantages and disadvantages to both clean-air and direct-air designs. To list one, it is far easier to make a blower design that produces more pressure in a clean-air design, because the clearances can be stupidly tight since they do not need to pass dirt and debris. On the other hand, they need that extra pressure to maintain performance through longer piping. Some clean-air machines have not gotten that balance right over the years, to put it simply, but many have. Plus, hose performance is way better on a clean-air machine due to this. This may be controversial, but some companies have even made bagless and cordless vacuum cleaners with impressive cleaning performance. I could go on and on and on, but you get the point. Give them a chance! | ||
| Post# 451219 , Reply# 6 3/31/2022 at 14:53 (750 days old) by Tseg (World Traveller) | ||
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Has anyone ever made a hybrid, where there is direct air in floor mode, but can convert to bypass when the hose is in use so one can get proper suction and use various suction-driven attachments? | ||
| Post# 451222 , Reply# 7 3/31/2022 at 15:58 (750 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Yes
Ever heard of a Tandem Air upright from Riccar or Simplicity before?
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| Post# 451231 , Reply# 8 3/31/2022 at 23:57 (750 days old) by Tseg (World Traveller) | ||
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panasonicvac: interesting that reviews of this tandem air machine have it producing such lackluster results. www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bi... | ||
| Post# 451232 , Reply# 9 4/1/2022 at 01:20 (750 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Personally, I think the Tandem Air vacuums are very powerful machines for what they are. Especially the canisters and even central vacuums. I was BLOWN away when I first used one. And I've never regretted selling one when I used to work at a vacuum store. My personal favorite and the best one that I've ever used would be this red Simplicity Synchrony Premium. I wished I bought one of these back when they were still selling new instead of my black Simplicity Symmetry Deluxe that I used to have. Not that I didn't like it because I loved my Symmetry. But I felt that the Synchrony was better suited for me. It is in my opinion the second best vacuum that I've ever used on carpets, the Royal 1030Z that I used to own is the best one. And the second best overall upright that I've ever used, the Lindhaus HealthCare Pro is the best one.
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| Post# 451277 , Reply# 10 4/3/2022 at 03:30 (748 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Rex
I apologies for skipping over you. I could list many machines but I'll give you an example of one here. Take the NSS M1 "PIG", the most powerful direct air machine ever made. Compare that to the ProTeam Super CoachVac. The Super Coach is going to pick up better. Because it has more suction combined with airflow since it's a bypass motor design. I definitely do agree with you about the SEBO X Series. I have the blue X5 which I'm so in love with. It is overall in my humble opinion tied with the red Simplicity Synchrony Premium as the second overall best upright vacuum that I've ever used by far. But the problem with direct air machines is that you do need to change out belts, you can risk breaking the fan if you pick up objects that you shouldn't have, they're not as easy using the attachments nor do they do the best job at cleaning other surface areas, and the motors are still going to leak out dirt and carbon dust that doesn't go through the bag.
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| Post# 451282 , Reply# 12 4/3/2022 at 10:50 (747 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
gotta disagree
At the end of their respective hoses the proteam FS6 i've tested has about 150 cfm at the hose end (1.5") vs the 118 I got at the end of the pig's hose with the kirby bag mod. One could put a straight cuff on the end of the hose to avoid objects being caught in the elbow some units are sold with it. I do agree though that their capacity is far greater as the largest backpacks seem to be about 10 qt.
Getting back to the topic at hand. When it comes to deep cleaning performance, I think that, Direct airs generally have an advantage due to their, also generally, higher airflow. But it would be incorrect to assume that all direct airs out perform bypass machines. There are some out there which could outclean some of the lesser performing direct airs. Machines like the bagged hoover windtunnels, simplicity 7 series/ riccar 8000 series, sharps, panasonics, and even some eurekas like the smart vac were pretty good performers. I think there is still untapped potential for bypasss machines too. The Dirt devil ultra MVP is capable of producing nearly 130 cfm at the nozzle if this design were modernized it and given a few modifications it could truly stand against even the best direct airs. | ||
| Post# 451309 , Reply# 16 4/4/2022 at 02:04 (747 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Before I'd go any further here, I just want to say that I'm not bashing the PIG or any other direct air machine. Actually I personally love the PIG, in fact I use them more than the Super Coaches. I could've been more fair to put in the RunningVac or any other ProTeam canister since the Super Coach is a back pack machine, that would've been a more fair comparison. But I didn't because unfortunately, ProTeam no longer makes any canisters which I think is a real shame because I prefer the canisters over the back pack machines. Even though I'm not much of a canister person but I definitely do like them more than back packs. Though they both share similar performances.
The PIG definitely does hold more than the Super Coach. However, I like maintaining the Super Coaches more because I find that they're easier and cleaner to do. Not to mention that they actually filter better. But the bottom line though is that having used both machines, the PIG doesn't pick up as well as the Super Coach. Regarding the ProTeam FreeFlex. I still have yet to use one but I am hearing that they're already having problems. Makes me wonder though of why they haven't gotten rid of those instead of their canister vacuums since those have generally gotten favorable feedback. But I do like that the FreeFlex uses cloth disposable bags, though they do look small however. I'm not sure yet. I wouldn't be surprised if I find that the ProTeam bypass machines do a better job than the FreeFlex. I definitely do agree with Devin, I don't believe that all direct air machines would clean better than any bypass machine. Take the classic Oreck XL uprights for example. One thing that I'm still trying to figure out is how in the heck did those get the gold rating from The Carpet and Rug Institute? Again not to bash on any direct air machine, especially Oreck cause I'll admit that I do like Orecks. I really do appreciate their lightweight and simple design but I do not find they clean excellent that CRI claims they really do. I could see on their higher end models like the XL21 but definitely not their entry level line. Anyways I brought that up because I know for sure that alot of other bypass machines if not all of them that were placed lower on the list would do a better job than those Orecks. Especially the SEBO Felix. Yes Mike the Felix can out clean some direct air machines, not all of them but some. But I also agree with Devin that some bypass machines cannot out clean all direct air machines. | ||
| Post# 451313 , Reply# 17 4/4/2022 at 06:59 (747 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
Is this thread about commercial vacuums or household vacuums?
However the topic shifted off to the NSS Pig, regardless of how good it is, it has its place in the commercial environment. It does not fit in a house and is not usable in a house. Unless you're pre-cleaning people's homes for a shampooing service I wouldn't see it used at all anywhere near a neighborhood. I have one too, and trust me, it's more massive than it looks in a photo when you have all the kit with it. It would be so destructive trying to clean with that in an apartment or small house like my own (800 sqft) This is a pic from online;
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Post# 451315 , Reply# 18 4/4/2022 at 11:21 (746 days old) by gottahaveahoove  (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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TheVCCC was given a PIG | ||
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Post# 451316 , Reply# 19 4/4/2022 at 12:38 (746 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa) |
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NSS pig | ||
| Post# 451335 , Reply# 21 4/5/2022 at 01:05 (746 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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huskyvacs
Either one, it doesn't matter. Any could clean a residential or a commercial place. I just brought the PIG up because it's the most powerful direct air machine out there and I compared it to a different machine almost similar to it that I use daily for commercial cleaning.
Honestly, I don't think it's impossible for the PIG to be used for residential cleaning. Lots of homes should have closets that would have room enough to store the PIG in. I mean sure it's got alot of drawbacks than most other vacuums but hey, any vacuum to have is better than not having a vacuum cleaner in a home at all:) I know for sure that I wouldn't live in a home without having a vacuum cleaner, even a broom isn't good enough for me. | ||
| Post# 451417 , Reply# 24 4/9/2022 at 13:08 (741 days old) by Mike811 (Finland) | ||
 Vorverk VK 135 has amazing 100 cfm from the nozzle. For example Kirby G6 has 120-130 cfm from the nozzle. How it can do it is insanely simple airpath from nozzle to the motor. However on full power it can be pain to push on certain type of carpeting. Powerhead has extremely high rpm brushroll, but not the greatest agitation. Carpet grooming is where it shines. | ||
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