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Thread Number: 41992
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Kirby Company sold to Right Lane Industries |
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| Post# 443048 6/17/2021 at 23:07 (1,035 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443053 , Reply# 1 6/18/2021 at 09:02 (1,034 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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| Post# 443054 , Reply# 2 6/18/2021 at 10:42 (1,034 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443056 , Reply# 4 6/18/2021 at 11:45 (1,034 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 443057 , Reply# 5 6/18/2021 at 11:53 (1,034 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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I doubt there is any new Kirby coming. Kirby had access to one of the wealthiest men in recent history and he was not willing to invest in new products for Kirby. This looks like a typical scenario where the mother corporation milked an old company for every penny it was worth and after it had multiple bad years they decided it was better to dump it than keep it. New owners appear to focus on manufacturing only so its likely the same old kirby product will be moved into one of their other facilities. New owners don't seem to have any sales and marketing expertise and are rather new and have no long history of being successful at reviving old companies that are in bad shape. Time will tell, but these types of things are more often symbolic of the end than a new beginning.
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| Post# 443058 , Reply# 6 6/18/2021 at 12:11 (1,034 days old) by vacuumman (California) | ||
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The Kirby brand is present on Right Lane Industries' website. CLICK HERE TO GO TO vacuumman's LINK | ||
| Post# 443059 , Reply# 7 6/18/2021 at 12:25 (1,034 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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Post# 443060 , Reply# 8 6/18/2021 at 13:06 (1,034 days old) by KirbyClassicIII  (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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IRONMAN
I still hope the Kirby will be made in America so, wishing the best of luck to these guys! And I am certain that if RLI wants to shut Kirby down instead, a group of dedicated Kirby employees and fans will try to do whatever it takes to bring the company back to its former glory.
I too agree with the debate of whether Kirby should do something totally new or continue with what it was best known for (the tried-and-true) and that is why I am not fond of whatever new design is in the pipeline, especially if it strays too far from their tried-and-true design architecture going back to 1928's Scott & Fetzer Sanitation System. ~Ben | ||
| Post# 443061 , Reply# 9 6/18/2021 at 13:20 (1,034 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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RLI will need to recoup their investment. Possibly they have plans to combine operations with another one of their industrial businesses. They also have no loyalty toward direct sales and could eventually decide to sell directly on Amazon & their own website. I would not expect to see these changes immediately but the new owners will do what’s best for themselves and their investors and that might be going a different direction in the retailing of the Kirby brand.
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| Post# 443062 , Reply# 10 6/18/2021 at 13:57 (1,034 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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Post# 443064 , Reply# 12 6/18/2021 at 14:33 (1,034 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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juju93
But then again, the Kirbys I have always had that loud, overbearing atmosphere you speak of (especially models Tradition 3CB and earlier with the metal fan), plus the weight issue. It did wear down on me as a child, but I came out of that after 20 years, and as to its weight I was able to handle them more comfortably by picking them up from the bottom of their handle forks.
~Ben | ||
| Post# 443065 , Reply# 13 6/18/2021 at 15:17 (1,034 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
According to their website;
------------------------- Right Lane Capital LLC is a Chicago-based private investment firm focused on leveraged buyouts and recapitalizations of profitable middle and lower middle market businesses. Because Right Lane is not structured as a typical private equity firm, we have unusual flexibility in our investment structuring, holding period, and target industries. Our affiliate Right Lane Industries LLC is an industrial holding company offering a permanent home to lower middle market industrial businesses that have been orphaned inside larger companies, or whose retiring shareholders want to ensure that the businesses they spent their careers building end up in the hands of investors who share their values. Our transactions provide liquidity for owners, capital for growth and acquisitions, and attractive equity upside for continuing management teams – all while navigating the cultural, family, and business issues faced by small company owners and managers. www.rightlanecapital.com/... ----------------------------------------- What it looks like is Kirby is in the hole and they put the business up as leverage on a equity loan. Doesn't look like they sold it, but it's being managed by a broker now. I predict that..... #1 - they will likely start cutting out franchisees and under-performing service centers to recoup some collateral cost. #2 - They might make the refurbishment program stricter, or restrict it to only newer models. #3 - Redo their sales methods, cut out door to door sales, and possibly start selling them on online markets.
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Post# 443066 , Reply# 14 6/18/2021 at 15:19 (1,034 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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huskyvacs
Whichever way it pans out, I would prefer to remember Kirby for the way it was in its first century (from 1914 to 2014), for all the good things they ever built. I have never been interested in their rebuild program after they stopped selling the original black, gray and red trim pieces for their alphanumeric and 500 series machines in the mid-'70s.
I would guess I'd better stock up on all the belts and brush rolls for their older machines (models Legend II and earlier) while I can--just a thought. ~Ben | ||
| Post# 443067 , Reply# 15 6/18/2021 at 15:27 (1,034 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
31 years is LONG ENOUGH!!!
I will be tarred and feathered by the Kirby purists who say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," and maybe I would feel different had I not seen those prototype designs of what the new 2014 Avalir was supposed to look like, but for all intents and purposes, the current Avalir 2 is nothing more than a warmed-over Generation 3. Now granted, there have been tweaks to the design throughout the years, like a lighter base pan, LED headlights and improved mini-emtors, but the basic platform is still a Generation series machine. The Classic platform ran for 20 years, the 500 series for 25 years, it's time for an ALL-NEW more modern design. Otherwise, the demise of Kirby, well they did it to themselves resting too long on their laurels. Just my 2 cents.
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| Post# 443069 , Reply# 16 6/18/2021 at 15:45 (1,034 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443070 , Reply# 17 6/18/2021 at 15:57 (1,034 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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The fact that Warren Buffet didn't want to put any more money into it is very telling.
I started to really think about some things that should have been red flags recently. In my area, we are very rural but my small town of 19,000 has an engineering college. We recently have had an influx of Kirby dealers from another state come to town, and target mostly older people. Because my vac shop is the only one for 100 miles, I get to see the new Kirby customers fairly soon after the purchase. There are only 2 bags that come with the machine. I guess the fact that the salesmen have to come from Iowa to a small rural town in the Missouri Ozarks should be telling enough about how few they are selling. Every one of the customers who have bought a new Kirby during and after the pandemic have stated that the sprayer was used to spray disinfectant spray as part of the demonstration - implying that the machine could be used to disinfect. Then again, how many people are willing to let a door to door high pressure salesman (a stranger) into their home during the pandemic? | ||
| Post# 443071 , Reply# 18 6/18/2021 at 16:33 (1,034 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 443072 , Reply# 19 6/18/2021 at 16:40 (1,034 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443073 , Reply# 20 6/18/2021 at 17:24 (1,034 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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Looks like Kirby has already been purged from the Scott & Fetzer consumer brand list:
scottfetzer.com/brand-portfolio/... | ||
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Post# 443075 , Reply# 21 6/18/2021 at 17:36 (1,034 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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IRONMAN
That, again, is a reminder that while I hope Kirby will continue to thrive one way or another from this point forward, I much prefer to remember Kirby for the way it was in its first century (from 1914 to 2014).
It is kind of hard not to associate Kirby with Scott Fetzer, considering that company's two namesake founders (George H. Scott first opened the factory in 1914, and was joined by Carl S. Fetzer in 1915) helped get Jim Kirby's various machines off the ground from his first day of work as a designer under them in 1916 (the year he designed the "Vital Rand," which evolved into the Wireless Vac-U-Ette in 1919) until his death in 1971; his legacy under them included, of course, his first eponymous machine, the Kirby Model C, in 1934. ~Ben This post was last edited 06/18/2021 at 20:41 | ||
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Post# 443078 , Reply# 22 6/18/2021 at 17:52 (1,034 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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IRONMAN
In addition, if the Right Lane deal goes horribly wrong, and Kirby is suddenly shuttered after this, it will be a big loss for Cleveland, considering Kirby's iconic status under Scott Fetzer, and I hope both Ohio and Texas will do whatever is necessary for the out-of-work employees. In addition there could be lawsuits from Scott Fetzer and Berkshire Hathaway, and of course those from the numerous employees both in Cleveland, Ohio and Andrews, Texas demanding payments found due.
At this time, I am hoping Right Lane will assess the two factories in Cleveland and Andrews to make sure they remain profitable. ~Ben This post was last edited 06/18/2021 at 19:16 | ||
| Post# 443082 , Reply# 24 6/18/2021 at 19:58 (1,034 days old) by Mieles5380leo (Virginia) | ||
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Post# 443083 , Reply# 25 6/18/2021 at 20:02 (1,034 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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Mieles5380Leo | ||
| Post# 443085 , Reply# 26 6/19/2021 at 01:01 (1,034 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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I don't see any cause of concern as far as permanent closure in this situation. The company has just been put out as collateral as an investment to be bought or traded against. It's in purgatory if you will. The investor that owns Kirby - this Warren Buffet dude - also owns stakes in Apple, Coca-Cola, Heinz, and a bunch of other big name companies. As far as that is concerned, all he is doing with this move is dumping off his less profitable investments and focusing on stronger selling brands and letting someone else take over and potentially buy the company or pay off the equity and take ownership. Investment trading is a complex rabbit hole and things get muddy quickly, so anything can happen, but I seriously doubt it closing for good.
Bissell and Hoover are still here - more or less - and they have been around nearly 150 years for Bissell and 120 for Hoover. Also don't forget Shop Vac actually made it to death row and then was saved by a China pride tool company (who owns many other tool brands) who gave them the money, got everyone back to work, and kept them from going out of business entirely. So it's not all bad. Just have to wait and see how it pans out. If Kirby would just shift their vacuums to Amazon and retail sales and at least drop the price to compete with Dyson, they would sell the damn things a lot faster than they have. It also wouldn't hurt to make them out of harder and lighter components - something similar to hard hat materials. Maybe put a bunch of touch screen stuff on them to appeal to millenials even. | ||
| Post# 443088 , Reply# 28 6/19/2021 at 02:05 (1,034 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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Wow, calm down man. I was just throwing suggestions and ideas out there that they can do to keep relevant and making a profit through the 2020's. I mean if you want them to flounder around and die, okay then. lol
Just FYI I have a good chunk of Kirby's timeline from WW2 to today with both the main models and submodel variations - I also like the Avalir I and II's styling but do not own those yet. I'm not shutting myself out to any new ideas. A lighter Kirby thats more sleek and maneuverable has been a long time coming if you ask me. | ||
| Post# 443089 , Reply# 29 6/19/2021 at 06:25 (1,033 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
You have some good points huskyvacs and agree where your coming from. A lighter move manoeuvrable machine would be the perfect fit for today’s market of lighter and more convenient machines the public are wanting to have and use! I lighter Kirby doesn’t mean compromising on materials used or robustness if the right investment and R&D are done.
Across the globe the way the general public clean their homes these days has changed! Gone for most are weekly full cleans as people prefer to spot clean or clean in small regular cleans around the home. Plus want to clean in a faster more convenient way. I know some don’t like this change and prefer the weekly full house clean but times have changed and maybe the cordless vacuum has contributed to this change! A technology some of us may not like but I’m sure is here to stay and only grow over the next decade as battery technology improves and changed! In a competitive market vacuum cleaner manufacturers need to adapt to the changing needs of the general public or adapt the way they sell their machines! People are wanting lighter, compact machines that are convenient and quick to use around the home. Even Vorwerk has started to open its open Retail stores selling their products on the high street and even a few years ago started to sell their products on their websites in different countries as they realised I’m sure that in home demonstrations are not the only way to sell their products. Just my thoughts. | ||
| Post# 443090 , Reply# 30 6/19/2021 at 08:01 (1,033 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA) | ||
As great as the Kirby vacuums truly are, I see mainly two problems with them.
1) unfortunate high pressure and sometimes shady sales practices of distributors, especially targeting the elderly (this has often gotten them negative media attention). 2) the machines, although certainly versatile and different than anything else on the market, I think are just too fussy and complex for the average user. Having to take the head off to put the hose on for the normal person that just wants to do a quick vacuum is very inconvenient. Also all of the accessories, while novel, just never get used, and sometimes lost. How many times do we see Kirby vacuums for sale or at the thrift stores, and the attachments and accessories are all just in a jumble and clearly never used? Or the seller has no idea what any of it does, nor do they care. The owner likely never bothered to figure out what is what or how to use any of it. I just think Kirby really doesn't fit in today's market. The older generation saw the beauty in, and cherished things like Sunbeam Mixmasters and all that they could do. Today's generation is too busy with electronics, work, and other sort of things to have any interest in all that the Kirby can do. The older generation has largely passed away. Tools on board uprights, and bagless vacs have been on the market for nearly 30 years now, and that's what people are used to. The market for Kirby vacuums is fading away and I don't see younger people as a whole being interested in them. The only ones I could see would be people like stay at home homesteading moms that have time to figure it out and lots of cleaning to do. I'm not even sure the Kirby vacuums of the past were even bought because people actually WANTED them. I think it was high pressure sales tactics as well as claims of all that the vacuum could do, and maybe a person who just happened to be in need of a new vac when the salesman happened to knock on the door. But quickly, the owner found out it was too heavy and too confusing for what they wanted, so the vacuum never got used, or if so only in floor mode. | ||
| Post# 443091 , Reply# 31 6/19/2021 at 09:07 (1,033 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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It's the sales model that's killing Kirby. No one that I know wakes up in the morning and says "I'm going to buy a two thousand dollar vacuum today". It's the end of an era for the direct salesperson. After covid, good luck getting into houses. That's probably what Warren Buffet and crew were thinking. It will only get harder, not easier, to enter people's homes for a high pressure sale.
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| Post# 443095 , Reply# 32 6/19/2021 at 10:18 (1,033 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
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It's odd how at one time (pre-World War II) Kirby offered an "R" series to be sold in stores, and a "C" series to be sold through in-home demonstration. If they were to adopt that practice again, they MIGHT be able survive for awhile. But a new platform (still all-aluminum of course), lighter weight, more user friendly is a MUST at this point. The Tech-drive makes the whole thing too bulky to carry around. Even Hoover has finally gotten away from Self-Propelled uprights. I think Kirby is the last of the Mohicans.
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| Post# 443097 , Reply# 33 6/19/2021 at 14:37 (1,033 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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With Scott & Fetzer selling Kirby it will be interesting how United Finance treats Kirby dealers now that they’re no longer required to be used as a method to help prop up one of the former sister corps under the Scott & Fetzer umbrella. Also Kirby was one of Northland biggest motor customers and now that they no longer part of the same corporate family the new Kirby owners might source motors from someone else.
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| Post# 443100 , Reply# 35 6/19/2021 at 16:01 (1,033 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 443101 , Reply# 36 6/19/2021 at 16:28 (1,033 days old) by juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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This is going to sound random but kirby is going to have to remove the scott Fetzer name off the side of the shampoo box and turbo accessory box and off the bottom of the big kirby box. Hopefully this new company will listen to consumers wants and needs for this brand. | ||
| Post# 443103 , Reply# 37 6/19/2021 at 16:38 (1,033 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 443108 , Reply# 38 6/19/2021 at 20:52 (1,033 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.) | ||
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More depressing news. Little by little, year after year, the quality vacuums companies grow more distressed and closer to the Endangered Company List. Those of us who like quality vacuums that perform well are facing as seemingly bleak future. | ||
| Post# 443109 , Reply# 39 6/19/2021 at 21:19 (1,033 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
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It happens when vacuum manufacturers no longer want to fit in with the times. It happened to Air Way 20 years ago, and frankly I can't figure out how Filter Queen is still holding on. They're DATED designs and as Tom already pointed out the customers who appreciate the tried and true are passing away.
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| Post# 443113 , Reply# 42 6/19/2021 at 22:42 (1,033 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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The problem is if Warren Buffets money wasn’t enough how is RLI going to do it when they are seriously under capitalized in comparison to Berkshire Hathaway’s big bucks. I just don’t think RLI is going to pump money and resources into a new Kirby as much as they are likely to just remove items, cut cost, remove complexity, remove dealers, and sell directly to their huge Kirby data base of customers directly and target new customers on amazon with a much lower MSRP. Just an opinion and time will tell.
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| Post# 443124 , Reply# 44 6/20/2021 at 16:59 (1,032 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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Post# 443130 , Reply# 45 6/21/2021 at 08:17 (1,031 days old) by Kloveland (Tulsa) |
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Tolivac | ||
| Post# 443159 , Reply# 47 6/22/2021 at 00:19 (1,031 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
Filter Queen now offers two different colors of choice on their vacuums. Either the Worldwide Edition or the Limited Edition Bronze.
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Post# 443161 , Reply# 48 6/22/2021 at 01:07 (1,031 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC) |
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Lux,Rainbow,Filter Queen,ANY of the premium DTD vacuums all have their same basic design they started with.And of course-Kirby.Sticking with designs that WORK is not "outdated"Your newer car works in the same basic way as a model T-think about it! | ||
| Post# 443182 , Reply# 49 6/22/2021 at 17:13 (1,030 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443188 , Reply# 51 6/22/2021 at 18:49 (1,030 days old) by Scvacuumguy (SC) | ||
I’ll tell you exactly what they will do (if they are smart)
They will ride the wave of the “Kirby” name for the next 15-25 years. They will begin private labeling various models and create a retail big box line. They will consolidate dealers into protected territories for the “flagship” model (it won’t change). They will probably have Tacony label the lightweight corded and cordless and retail those as a non-protected line. The Kirby name on a Chinese piece in Best Buy or WM will appeal to those who have grandparents with the machines, and the $299 price will make it an unbelievable steal, because they never remember how well the Kirby cleans, they just remember the price. This can work, but only for a little bit. Just ask Joe Urso ;-) | ||
| Post# 443199 , Reply# 53 6/22/2021 at 21:24 (1,030 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
Hmm
Bissell would have a heyday. They would make a green Avalor call it a big green clean machine. The could do a upright with hose built in and tools on board. The shampooer could be a cross between a crosswave and Kirby in shampoo mode.
They could just stop selling them a together and dominate the market oh wait can you dominate something that an industry as a whole fell off a cliff and is abysmal. I'm sure changes are coming. Changes camo for Hoover America's top selling vacuum for along time. Electrolux made amazing canister vacuums that never die. Royal was a poor man's Kirby but a great vacuum. Eureka/sanitaire made quality machines and was a top commercial vacuum company. They all have a common theme. Bought sold bought sold bought liquidated and disbanded. If there is a future for Kirby it's not good. | ||
| Post# 443205 , Reply# 54 6/22/2021 at 21:34 (1,030 days old) by Dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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Hey Les | ||
| Post# 443211 , Reply# 55 6/22/2021 at 21:50 (1,030 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Lol | ||
| Post# 443229 , Reply# 56 6/23/2021 at 12:21 (1,029 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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Berkshire Hathaway stock reached an all time high this year (2021) so the sale of Kirby was not done in some desperate need to raise cash, but rather a method to purge an outdated company that no longer fits in with the corporate family.
Berkshire had all the money in the world to invest into Kirby and the decided not to. | ||
| Post# 443244 , Reply# 57 6/23/2021 at 21:21 (1,029 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Berkshire
Hathaway basically made a blueprint to retire using the stock market with vanguard accounts. They innovated the entire investment game and basically how america will prosper. They are pioneers in changing hundreds of millions life.
Kirby innovated the vacuum market with a good design. They added a transmission and made a $2200 vacuum that's $400 value. Kirby will change sadly there not a big enough apple for buffets company to bother with. | ||
| Post# 443252 , Reply# 59 6/23/2021 at 22:17 (1,029 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Perhaps | ||
| Post# 443259 , Reply# 60 6/24/2021 at 06:42 (1,028 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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I think really do need to move on from the G series because in my opinion. let’s just say they do come out with an Avalir 3 they will come knocking on some doors say this is our new machine but people won’t buy it because they all ready own a avalir 2 and won’t bother buying just because of a colour change that’s my opinion
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| Post# 443261 , Reply# 61 6/24/2021 at 07:43 (1,028 days old) by Tseg (World Traveller) | ||
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Plastic bagless Kirby made in China coming to a Walmart near you. | ||
| Post# 443264 , Reply# 62 6/24/2021 at 09:12 (1,028 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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Let's face it - the door to door sales model is DEAD. Europe was locked down far longer than the US - can't see them setting sales records in Europe (that's where the Kirbys made in Texas go). They probably didn't sell anything in Europe for the past year and a half.
In the US, there will HAVE to be a different sales model post-covid. The water vacs might be able to continue since they claim to clean the air (run air through water/disinfectant) and customers call on their friends to have a demo in order to get a 'freebe' like the shampooer. With Kirby there's nothing. The property the Kirby Company is on will be sold. Why make a QVC and Amazon (or Wal-Mart) vacuum in the US? I believe they'll paint some chrome on the plastic of some Chinese vacuum that they will try to convince people is a 'real Kirby' the way the Eureka/Lux tried to convince people it was still their grandmother's Electrolux. Light weight with on-board hose. It will make a great demo on TV. I have a feeling the Avalir 2 is the last "real" Kirby we will ever see. | ||
| Post# 443265 , Reply# 63 6/24/2021 at 09:40 (1,028 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
I really like Kirbys and I love the fact that they're built to old world standards--durable, uncomplicated, repairable and no freakin' circuit boards! At this point, I'm doubly glad I've got enough of them around here to last me the rest of my lifetime.
It would greatly sadden me to see Kirby become another American ghost brand--a once proud name that the Chinese will slap on anything they think it will help sell. And you can rest assured that any of those products that run on electricity will be loaded with fragile and rapidly deprecated circuit boards, disguised as innovative features that actually just serve as self-destruct devices, ensuring a rapid replacement schedule and more plastic in our landfills. Of course, this may happen as a slow decline with a gradual and systematic cheapening of product quality, beginning with replacing metal structural components with plastic, then eliminating the Tech Drive because it isn't needed as much on a lighter weight machine, then adding a cheaper DC motor with the requisite circuit boards and maybe some superfluous LED's to make consumers think it's an innovation and keep them from noticing their new machine cannot be serviced or repaired. Eventually, it's just another Wally World plasticrap vac with a 90-day warranty. | ||
| Post# 443270 , Reply# 65 6/24/2021 at 12:03 (1,028 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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Ritello
Check this out. Putting disinfectant in the water and running the machine to 'wash the air' has always been the water-vac's "trick". All Kirby can do is spray it on everything with the sprayer. Ritello now Advertises with a yard sign that "this house is clean" (to quote the movie Poltergeist). The "tricks" of the trade.
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| Post# 443273 , Reply# 66 6/24/2021 at 14:49 (1,028 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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No hospitals or any institution that requires real sanitization of airborne viruses will use a water vac to filter and contain them. Water has been shown to be a horrible filter and is the reason why Rainbow had to hide a Hepa filter inside their machines so it would actually catch tiny particulates.
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| Post# 443278 , Reply# 67 6/24/2021 at 16:52 (1,028 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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Yeah that is all just a marketing gimmick and a placebo and frankly an outright lie. It's all just snake oil. The same with those UV disinfecting lamps, they do not do a damn thing but run up your power bill. It fools people that don't know anything about science into thinking their home is "clean". As soon as you open that door or windows or turn the A/C on your home is no longer "clean". You cannot sanitize a home, that's an impossible task. And people that live overly clean always are 100% more victim to simple common pathogens because they have no immune system to germs. Also I don;t know about you but I would be concerned about long term lung and throat damage breathing in vaporized Lysol. That is 100% against its usage directions. Also I fail to see what any of that has to do with Kirby.
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| Post# 443281 , Reply# 69 6/24/2021 at 19:09 (1,028 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Kirby won't release a new model UNLESS they new one can be as good or even better than it's current model. Honestly, I don't mind with Kirby of still using the same basic design since the release of the G3, it can still out clean alot of vacuums on the market today. What I'm really hoping for Kirby is to release another model that's for a limited production run just like with Filter Queen that I shared earlier. I like having two or more options to choose out of, I mean one option isn't going to please everyone. Personally, I wouldn't buy a brand new Kirby. The price just isn't worth to me for what they're asking. But IF they came out with a pink "Breast Cancer" edition model, I probably would buy one. Oreck did it before, Dyson did it, etc. I have a family member who fought through that illness.
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| Post# 443285 , Reply# 71 6/24/2021 at 20:15 (1,028 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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Im not even sure Kirby even had a real ‘modern’ engineering department over the last decade. Likely fired all those old dudes years ago and just farmed out minor engineering and design stuff. An all new machine was never going to happen, and likely still wont happen. I’m just expecting them to cut cost, cut complexity, cut out executives, cut out dealers, and etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if a pre-G3 model is resurrected for the sake of its simplicity and the current G3-variant ceases for good.
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| Post# 443290 , Reply# 73 6/25/2021 at 01:12 (1,028 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443296 , Reply# 74 6/25/2021 at 09:47 (1,027 days old) by juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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How ironic that in 2019, the same year that rexair was sold, we also got the launch of the SRX. | ||
| Post# 443297 , Reply# 75 6/25/2021 at 10:19 (1,027 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443299 , Reply# 76 6/25/2021 at 12:42 (1,027 days old) by juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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The SRX is its own platform. Its nothing like the E-series. Yes the SRX model has had its issues but what product hasn't. Nothing is perfect and that includes the SRX design. For some like myself, it cleans and works great with no issues. For others thats a different story. | ||
| Post# 443300 , Reply# 77 6/25/2021 at 12:45 (1,027 days old) by juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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So does anybody know when this new take over of kirby will start kicking in, in terms of selling the machines and or futrure models? And has anyone heard anything from kirby themselves or someone who works for them? | ||
| Post# 443301 , Reply# 78 6/25/2021 at 14:37 (1,027 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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| Post# 443322 , Reply# 79 6/26/2021 at 03:41 (1,027 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
I mean, I’ve said the same about Sebo but somehow that’s wrong of me 🤪😂
Kind of goes to show that reputation and oldy worldy nostalgic design isn’t enough to survive in the current market. No is suggesting Kirby makes cordless vacuums in China for £150, but it Vorwerk can sell vacuums at Kirby prices and still remain profitable and relevant then something is clearly wrong with customer relations, or lack there of. | ||
| Post# 443325 , Reply# 80 6/26/2021 at 08:30 (1,026 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
Thinking about this
It's hard to say at this point what this sale means for the future of the company.
We can speculate but we'll all have to wait and see what happens. Even if, worst case scenario, this does result in the end of Kirby as we know them I'd think parts should be around for a good number of years to come so we can at least keep our machines running. | ||
| Post# 443347 , Reply# 81 6/26/2021 at 16:03 (1,026 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 443352 , Reply# 82 6/26/2021 at 17:19 (1,026 days old) by Dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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From the horses mouth.
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Post# 443381 , Reply# 83 6/27/2021 at 02:14 (1,026 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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Ironman,
Although I'm not a "Kirby' owner, I was through the factory in Cleveland a few yrs ago. They were very nice to us. (The VCCC). I hope that they do not go through what Hoover went through. selling the buildings, firing, etc.
It would be awful. It's a wonder TTi didn't 'scoop it up'. Then, we might have seen the Kirby name slapped on Royals, Orecks, etc. 2000+ employees were gotten rid of. Time will tell. Still, nobody really knows what might happen. | ||
| Post# 443382 , Reply# 84 6/27/2021 at 02:33 (1,026 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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Yeah that's what I figured, same scenario as Dirt Devil. They got bought by a moneyman who will supply them the cash as long as they continue putting out the product to pay back the equity.
"re-establish a pattern of continued growth" is just legalese for they're gonna be trying a bunch of wacky things and seeing what sales model sticks to run with. In any case, hopefully we get a new Kirby out of this. I suspect with this much money they would likely try and develop a rechargeable Kirby at some point. It would fit right into the handle cutout of the Avalir 2. | ||
| Post# 443383 , Reply# 85 6/27/2021 at 03:27 (1,026 days old) by vacuumman (California) | ||
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If what this letter says is true, the main takeaway is that Right Lane currently intends to keep Kirby production in the United States. | ||
| Post# 443385 , Reply# 86 6/27/2021 at 06:02 (1,025 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 443394 , Reply# 87 6/27/2021 at 10:36 (1,025 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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RLI previously seemed focused on behind the scenes industrial companies. Kirby looks to be their first step into consumer products. As they try to ‘re-establish’ things they will likely find it to be more complicated than they thought. Its the same reason Rexair/Rainbow was sold 4 times within a 15 year period, and each time for less money. Making and selling products to consumers is no easy task.
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| Post# 443410 , Reply# 88 6/27/2021 at 20:57 (1,025 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom) | ||
The market still appears to be distracted by day-glow green, fluorescent yellow, V9, V10, V11, Bagless, Stick, and Cordless... Function, efficiency, and durability don't appeal anymore.
Perhaps Kirby can attract consumers wanting the latest fashion by offering plastic clip-on panels and interchangeable trim, with bags in a variety of colours? I wonder if they'll change their outdated 1930's Sales Model now, to allow customers to simply buy a new Kirby vacuum - without the three hour intensive home-demonstration pitch? | ||
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Post# 443432 , Reply# 90 6/28/2021 at 14:02 (1,024 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa) |
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| Post# 443464 , Reply# 91 6/29/2021 at 11:39 (1,023 days old) by vacuumkid47 (Sibley, IA) | ||
My take
All of my life I have grown up with the Kirby sytem (with my grandparents owning the Gsix 2000 LE and the Avalir, my mother owning the Gsix, UG DE, and Sentria II). I have grown to love the Kirby brand and it is a very unique system and the fact that it is a QUALITY USA made machine is what is appealing to Kirby owners, and the fact that it still uses the same basic design from over 100 years ago! Kirby being sold to RLI was definitely a surprise to me, as I knew Scott and Fetzer wasn't actively planning on selling the company outright as far as I know. The sales tactics especially by dealers and door to door salesman is something I do not agree with, and it is a dying market altogether. The only worrying thing about Kirby being sold is what is inevitable with many vacuum brands today: quality assurance. Many brands I feel just crap out a new model within a few months with little to no improvement in design and performance, just with a new color and a few new parts here and there. Kirby is different. Kirby is METICULUSLY tested with many stress tests and it is a durable machine. I cannot count how many vacuums I have seen just thrown away because of a simple little thing like a broken belt and/or clog. But I digress....
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| Post# 443465 , Reply# 92 6/29/2021 at 15:16 (1,023 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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I personally agree with the last two comments. Kirby is nothing like alot of the vacuums out there. They're complete home care systems. While it's not my most my most favorite vacuum out there, it is however a vacuum that I would take almost any vacuum that is sold in department stores today. The only real change that I would suggest to Kirby is to bring back the Vacuette hand vacs, that's my biggest criticism with Kirby overall is using it as a handheld. But as long as there are review videos like these that would recommend people to get a Kirby, I think they will still continue to be successful.
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| Post# 443468 , Reply# 93 6/29/2021 at 17:00 (1,023 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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Good video...
I think that video pretty well sums things up. The most important point the reviewer makes is that Kirbys do have a small learning curve but once you get past that, they really are great machines. That said, I have never been able to change the machine from upright to canister mode anywhere near as fast as the salesman did during an in-home demo of a Classic Omega I watched back in the early '70s. I was about nine years old at the time and was mightily impressed. We didn't buy one but from that point on, I had in the back of my head that some day, I'd like to have a Kirby until I finally found my first Gsix beside a dumpster some 40 years later. Best dumpster find ever.
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| Post# 443484 , Reply# 95 6/30/2021 at 16:49 (1,022 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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My guess is if Kirby continues with the same sales tactics they will have to raise both their wholesale and retail price significantly ASAP! They lost a significant amount of cost savings when they were detached from Berkshire’s money and the direct connection to Scott & Fetzer’s Northland and United Finance. That previous corporate family relationship was likely utilized to the max.
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| Post# 443488 , Reply# 97 6/30/2021 at 20:58 (1,022 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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Kirby's biggest competitor...
I know I've run this point into the ground in other threads but it bears repeating. Kirby's biggest competition these days is itself in the form of a glutted second hand market. As Juju93 correctly pointed out, it's not at all hard to find a used Kirby in decent shape for a relative pittance. Back in the spring, I picked up two Kirbys at different thrift stores within a couple of weeks of one another—an Ultimate G Diamond Edition and a first generation Sentria—for $50 each with full accessory kits including shampooers. In all fairness, the Diamond G did need a couple of minor parts, about $12 worth, but the Sentria just needs some polishing, which I haven't done yet. Still, you can't even buy a plastic craptastic disposable bagless vac at Wally World for $50. This creates an interesting dynamic where used Kirbys represent as much of an incredible value for the money as much as brand new ones are ridiculously expensive. That's a tough conundrum for Kirby to overcome, regardless who owns the company.
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| Post# 443489 , Reply# 98 6/30/2021 at 21:19 (1,022 days old) by iRONMAN (Avengers HQ) | ||
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There must be a missing factor we are all missing here on why Warren Buffet and all his billions of dollars did not feel Kirby was worthy of an infusion of money to truly modernize their product line in all the right ways. Instead he milked it for all it was worth and sold it after it had multiple years of significant underperformance.
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Post# 443498 , Reply# 99 7/1/2021 at 09:49 (1,021 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa) |
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Warren Buffet may not have anything to do with Kirby being sold. He has so many companies and financial analysts working for him. All of this is speculation.
Kirby is a successful company and probably will continue to be. Remember not all of their revenue comes from a Kirby sale. They also sell supplies such as shampoo. I visited Filter Queen in 2014 and they had a small operation compared to Kirby. I don't even think Rainbow is as big as Kirby. As far as I know Kirby is the largest seller of home care systems in door to door sales. Please correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
| Post# 443501 , Reply# 100 7/1/2021 at 10:39 (1,021 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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The Kirby is sold on emotion. The emotion of seeing all this dirt you didn't know you had. With all the dire warnings about Covid, are you really going to let some unmasked person whom you do not know, into your home? Most people are cleaning and sanitizing far more than they ever did. Who would want a stranger spreading germs, bacteria, and viruses all over their house? You have to be in a certain frame of mind to even listen to a vacuum cleaner demonstration even before Covid. Their business model is so outdated - Covid just slammed the door on the Kirby Company's coffin. The way they sell them HAS to change. But without the emotion of seeing dirt come from your 'clean' rugs - who would buy one?
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Post# 443506 , Reply# 101 7/1/2021 at 11:00 (1,021 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa) |
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Wouldn't Rainbow be sold on emotion as well? It's almost the same thing seeing dirt in the water. It seems like all door to door vac salesmen do similar things. Showing the customer the dirt.
It seems like Kirby gets picked on the most on here than any other D2D sales. I'm guessing because Kirby is the largest. I'm not trying to start anything or be rude to anyone. It seems to me lots of sales are made on emotion and all D2D vac salesmen do similar things. When I think of emotional sales I think of buying a new or used car LOL This post was last edited 07/01/2021 at 11:21 | ||
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Post# 443510 , Reply# 102 7/1/2021 at 11:33 (1,021 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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I agree, Kenny, on all of that.
D to D sales all strike emotional chords. When we (VCCC) went to Texas, we saw The Rainbow Company do their demo (remember the tank)? The only thing that bothered me was when they'd 'rupture' the other brand's bag, to ensure dust everywhere. but..............
I'm very careful with whom I allow in my home, more now than ever..... and COVID 19 has very little to do with it. I've had former friends do their demos in my home, practice for them, entertainment for the rest of us. I truly hope Kirby continues. I'm sure there will be changes, but, all of these buyouts realize there is SOMETHING appealing/valuable to them in the first place. | ||
| Post# 443515 , Reply# 104 7/1/2021 at 15:24 (1,021 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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Home invasion sales tactics...
I totally agree. I love Kirbys but I hate the thought of a D2D salesperson invading my home and refusing to leave until I've signed a sales contract and thus would never allow one to cross my threshold. I seem to remember reading on here several years ago about someone who had to finally usher the salesman out the door with a .38 in his hand. A little extreme to be sure, but I understand the sentiment. Kirby may claim not to tolerate such tactics, but despite creating a certain degree of plausible deniability, they do tacitly condone it by not putting an absolute stop to it with a complete cessation of D2D sales.
Now, in all fairness, the salesman who did the in-home demo I witnessed as a child in our living room in about 1973 could not have been more polite and did take 'no' for an answer when my mom declined to purchase. But that was a different era and society was much more polite as a whole back then, at least it was where I grew up. | ||
| Post# 443517 , Reply# 105 7/1/2021 at 15:48 (1,021 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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With water vacuums (and to this extent, the Filter Queen) are sold because a friend who buys a machine calls another friend to ask if they will allow a demo with a salesman who is usually a family member new to selling water vacs. The water vacs have a shampooer attachment that is used to secure these demos because it isn't sold with the machine. The new owner 'earns' this desirable attachment from setting up demos.
Also, water vacs are sold as 'air cleaners or air washers' with disinfectant in the water. The F.Q. has the Defender air purifier in addition to the vacuum. So unlike the Kirby, they are presented as being able to do more than vacuum. With the water vacs, the ability to put them away as clean as your dishes comes into play. The poor old Kirby has the bag of dirt in it when you put it away and really can't be sold to 'clean the air and disinfect it'. No matter if the water vacs can or cannot do this is immaterial. They are perceived to do this. While water vacs are sold 'in the home' it's a completely different experience from answering the door to find one (or more) salesmen standing on your porch who want in your house right now. | ||
| Post# 443518 , Reply# 106 7/1/2021 at 16:34 (1,021 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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I might be wrong here but I think Kirby should start selling them in stores because a lot more people would be able to experience them I actually had a dream that I went to the factory I was very excited to go into the testing laboratory because I thought they must be testing something new but knowing Kirby they won’t just the same old avalir 2 I was very disappointed
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Post# 443519 , Reply# 107 7/1/2021 at 17:15 (1,021 days old) by Air-WayCharlie (USA) |
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Kirby is a very old name---beloved by some and loathed by others. Since their inception, they have served their purpose of getting dirt off your floor(s) and other surfaces into some kind of bag.
Their whole business/sales model may be outdated but people are still going to buy them. As a collector, I have 8 but never bought one new in the box. I work in an arena of mostly women aged 23 and up to in their late 70's. Nearly all have heard of Kirby for one reason or another. The more mature ladies have either owned one, currently own one or their mothers did. The younger ones are aware because their mothers owned one or currently own one. To attract younger buyers Kirby has seriously got to rethink the vacuum and their approach to the vacuum. I was in a friend's vac shop today and he was showing me with great pride the Miele Triflex hx-1 as compared to the same type made by Hoover and Dyson. That is the kind of vacuum the young folk.........the current and future buyers of vacuums are going to get if they want to spend $400+ for a foreign-made vacuum, IMHO. Tania, (of Tania fame via the VCCC newsletter), and I were discussing the cleaning methods of younger folks last month when I was visiting with her. We as the older crowd and vac people love our different models of vacs and utilizing them for the different things they can do when cleaning. No one I talk to below probably below the age of 40, ever uses a dusting brush or crevice tool let alone an upholstery tool! We learned from our mothers and grandmothers how to clean ie: be it an upright or canister we knew how to dust using a dusting brush, how to clean woodwork, ceiling fans, crown molding, baseboards, bookcases, credenzas, etc. using the various attachments available. Those days are gone as are the door-to-door salesman. Say adios to Willy Loman, ("Death Of A Salesman"), hello Amazon, and online buying with battery-operated plastic vacs. I'm just grateful that I came from the era that I described! I enjoy using all my vacs and Kirbys. I do hope that Kirby remains for the long run. I'm glad we are a group that appreciates vacs from the past. It is nice to see the passion for Kirby. I have to admit I was so concerned that they might be dumbed down that I did buy a NIB Avalir II. (My first Kirby NIB and a great deal!) Let's hope for all good things for the future of Kirby. | ||
| Post# 443546 , Reply# 108 7/2/2021 at 18:00 (1,020 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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| Post# 443554 , Reply# 109 7/2/2021 at 22:18 (1,020 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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The | ||
| Post# 443564 , Reply# 110 7/3/2021 at 09:40 (1,019 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
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I think
Kirby should add an independent brush motor. Where? If they were to increase the gap between the nozzle and the housing a brushroll motor could be part of the nozzle attached to the back of it I figured since the nozzle attaches via hinge adding an electrical port to the machine probably integrating it into the switch shouldn't be too big a deal. Using this configuration it should be possible to have an electrified hose attach to that same point to power a mini electric tool perhaps a low profile power nozzle for hard to reach areas or other various tools.
With this they could also move to a grooved (serpentine like) belt for more user convenience.
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| Post# 443574 , Reply# 112 7/3/2021 at 16:45 (1,019 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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