Buying a formidable and available used vacuum

William, I would immediately rule out Miele from the list of brands you should consider. They are good canisters, BUT the later models from the S500 series onward are only worth considering (after 2004) due to parts availability. That is unless you want to buy several used canisters and strip them for parts. In addition, the S500, S5 & S8/C3 canisters use stiff electric hoses, heavy wands, small tools, the full size powerheads are only average at grooming & lifting the carpet pile. Also, Miele is one of the few brands with circuit boards where you CANNOT bypass the circuit board should the circuit board die before the motor does & the board is NLA. Their genuine bags & filters are also pricey, but one upside is generic bags & filters are decent quality & very reasonably pricey if bought thru Ebay, Amazon or AliExpress. Overall, though, there are better options.

I would also rule out Sebo. Their powerheads on the canisters & Sebo Felix/Dart leave much to be desired. The brushrolls they use have very soft bristles & are NOT good carpet groomers & they don't lift the carpet pile effectively to deep clean carpets. In addition, they aren't as convenient to use as the Miele powerheads & are more costly to repair if it breaks. Bags & filters are very pricey, & unlike Miele generic bags are not common for this brand. Also, while they tout they are professional grade vacuums, ask your dealer to show you the motors they use. I just recently saw a Sebo D4 canister motor that had been replaced on a canister at the local dealer, & they are a joke! Pathetically small & unacceptable quality for a vacuum in it's price range. A Miele C3 would be a FAR BETTER built machine in that price range, & be more convenient to use with lower cost of consumables if you use generic bags & filters.

I would also avoid the Proteam 1500 XP. That vacuum is a retired Electrolux design that they sold to Proteam because it was plagued with problems, particularly with the onboard hose clogging & the micro switch inside the housing activated by the hose so the powerhead runs are common issues with that model. In addition, the Aerus, Electrolux & Proteam uprights are prone to clogging inside the vacuum where the powerhead hose joins with the main suction hose. They are OK & work well, but clearly the Electrolux canisters are better than their uprights. If you absolutely insist on buying one, buy a older Electrolux upright instead & take it in & have a newer, more powerful motor installed. Hose & tool kits are also available, & you can also improve filtration with a HEPA filter if desired. Alternatively, if you want new, I would look at the Aerus Commercial upright over the Proteam 1500 XP, as it would be just as powerful & not have the issues the Proteam has. Very easily found on Ebay, & in some areas sold by local vac shops, not just Aerus dealers.

As for TriStar, Patriot/Airstorm & Filter Queen....yes they are good designs & well built, simple machines, but with lousy filtration by today's standards. Particularly the Filter Queen....there is NO WAY to filter the final exhaust & catch the carbon dust emissions the motor produces. The Patriot does have a Medik Aire HEPA Filter available for it, but at a whopping $200 dollars to replace it every 3 years! In addition, the bags on the TriStar & Patriot/Airstorm & the Filter Queen cones are single ply paper which leak TONS of dust into the cloth bag. That could be remedied on the Patriot/Airstorm & TriStar by using a Kenmore 5055 C/Q HEPA Cloth bag & lining the cloth bag with that, but considering the tools are cheap generic tools, the same Wessel Werk & Sebo powerheads Miele & Sebo use, & the outrageous HEPA filter cost, there are better options.

I would take a look at a Electrolux canister like you were originally thinking of. The 2100/Ambassador style or Epic 6500 style would be worth looking at, & can be found for well under $500 on Ebay. One thing I would advise though is to look carefully at the vacuum and avoid ANY vacuum that says Aerus or that says manufactured by Aerus LLC. Only look at & consider the Electrolux (pre-Aerus) canisters only. While the Aerus canisters are good machines, they use single stage JEI Chinese motors that are inferior in quality to the double stage Electro Motor motors that Electrolux used & manufactured themselves.

As for "hot rodding" it with the Perfect bags, I personally wouldn't bother. I have used the blue Aerus Home Solutions bags, aftermarket HEPA Cloth bags like the Perfect bags, & the generic 4 ply bags. I haven't found the HEPA Cloth bags to have that much better filtration or performance than the 4 ply bags, they both seem to be just as good at maintaining airflow in the vacuum. Also, neither bag leaves dust residue in the bag chamber. What I would do if you want to improve the filtration is remove the filter cover, save a old Electrolux hose machine end, put a 35mm tube in it, wrap a little clear packers tape around it & use a HEPA Cloth Miele KK bag in place of the after filter. Filters much better & less restrictive to the airflow, so it doesn't leak around the filter. The Electrolux canisters are built to last a lifetime, 4 ply bags can be had for as little as $1 per bag, & much easier to use since the hoses are more flexible & the tools are designed properly. Also consider that the cost of generic parts for Electrolux canisters....like cord reels & hoses....are MUCH LESS costly than Miele parts.

If you want new, you should also take a look at the latest Kenmore canisters & the Titan canisters. These can be found for around the $500 dollar mark on Ebay, & much better value & features with the same cleaning performance & filtration as Miele & Sebo, for much less money. Look particularly at the Kenmore 600 & 700 series, the purple one & the 2 Kenmore Elite models. Those canisters have the new EF-9 & EF-11 HEPA filters that are encased in plastic now, & the vacuums are now a sealed HEPA filter vacuum like Miele is. The Titan canisters are retired Kenmore Progressive designs, but the back filter door & compartment modified & designed to take the EF-11 HEPA filter, so again they are a sealed HEPA filter vacuum. The tools on the Kenmore & Titan canisters are much better & nicer to live with than Miele's tools, you get a motorized mini powerhead, excellent floor brush, all the controls for the vacuum right on the handle unlike Miele & Sebo at DOUBLE the price, variable speed control, fairly easy to use telescopic wand, & a good aggressive powerhead that does a excellent job at lifting the carpet pile, grooming & getting deeply embedded dirt out. In addition, the generic Kenmore HEPA Cloth bags are just as good as the genuine bags, & very reasonably priced & BIG. The cost of bags & filters is a important consideration for you as a pet owner.

If you go into a vac shop looking around & they try to steer you from a Kenmore or Titan canister claiming they are made in China....well yes, they are. But go ahead & laugh & ridicule them, & remind them so are their Miele & Sebo canisters! That's their dirty little secret....Miele & Sebo are NOT 100% German made! They do use some parts imported from China. Miele in particular does have a secondary factory in China where some of the lower end models are produced to this day. Also, the motors in both these brands are sourced by Domel, & produced in Slovenia & China. Do you REALLY want to pay DOUBLE for a German brand with Chinese parts when you can get a Kenmore or Titan that cleans just as well & just as well built for HALF what they cost?

Good luck & hope you find something that works for you & doesn't break the bank.

Rob


Forum Topics & Rules Manuals & Literature	New users Click-here to sign-up

Post# 441825 5/14/2021 at 23:48 (1,075 days old) by 2cats2many (LAUREL)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I am trying to decide what vacuum to buy used. I am looking for a vacuum that is going to have some balance of of performance, convenience, reasonable weight, parts availability, reliability and or repairability. Obviously this machine would not be great at any one of these things but I would like to know how different machines strike different balances. Originally I was going to buy a vintage machine like an electrolux and hot rodding it while using perfect bags. But given my current time constraints I was thinking of just buying a used Miele, for the convenience of having decent performance, good filtration, with onboard tools. Also they seem to be fairly easy to find on eBay from 90s to present. All in I would be fine with spending around +/-$500 as long as I was getting a lot of machine for the money. The house is mostly hard surface but what area rugs we do have need to be deeply cleaned of cat hair. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Post# 441829 , Reply# 1 5/15/2021 at 06:55 (1,074 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Tell us more* Are you more comfortable with a canister or an upright? Given your budget there's some new uprights about in that range like the Sebo Dart or the Proteam 1500xp, which is like a stronger (at least compared to the models prior to the guardian upright) Electrolux upright with onboard tools As for canisters i'm drawing a blank on a "good" new canister under 500 at least with a power nozzle. Though in the used market there are some solid machines to be had You mentioned Electrolux and Miele both of which are good options though in terms of carpet performance, filtration, and maneuverability Miele will be the better option but it will also be more costly in terms of consumables. There are other solid options like the tristar cxl/dxl or a patriot those are extremely simple machines.

Post# 442046 , Reply# 2 5/21/2021 at 07:31 (1,068 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)
Checkrate/Likes William, I would immediately rule out Miele from the list of brands you should consider. They are good canisters, BUT the later models from the S500 series onward are only worth considering (after 2004) due to parts availability. That is unless you want to buy several used canisters and strip them for parts. In addition, the S500, S5 & S8/C3 canisters use stiff electric hoses, heavy wands, small tools, the full size powerheads are only average at grooming & lifting the carpet pile. Also, Miele is one of the few brands with circuit boards where you CANNOT bypass the circuit board should the circuit board die before the motor does & the board is NLA. Their genuine bags & filters are also pricey, but one upside is generic bags & filters are decent quality & very reasonably pricey if bought thru Ebay, Amazon or AliExpress. Overall, though, there are better options. I would also rule out Sebo. Their powerheads on the canisters & Sebo Felix/Dart leave much to be desired. The brushrolls they use have very soft bristles & are NOT good carpet groomers & they don't lift the carpet pile effectively to deep clean carpets. In addition, they aren't as convenient to use as the Miele powerheads & are more costly to repair if it breaks. Bags & filters are very pricey, & unlike Miele generic bags are not common for this brand. Also, while they tout they are professional grade vacuums, ask your dealer to show you the motors they use. I just recently saw a Sebo D4 canister motor that had been replaced on a canister at the local dealer, & they are a joke! Pathetically small & unacceptable quality for a vacuum in it's price range. A Miele C3 would be a FAR BETTER built machine in that price range, & be more convenient to use with lower cost of consumables if you use generic bags & filters. I would also avoid the Proteam 1500 XP. That vacuum is a retired Electrolux design that they sold to Proteam because it was plagued with problems, particularly with the onboard hose clogging & the micro switch inside the housing activated by the hose so the powerhead runs are common issues with that model. In addition, the Aerus, Electrolux & Proteam uprights are prone to clogging inside the vacuum where the powerhead hose joins with the main suction hose. They are OK & work well, but clearly the Electrolux canisters are better than their uprights. If you absolutely insist on buying one, buy a older Electrolux upright instead & take it in & have a newer, more powerful motor installed. Hose & tool kits are also available, & you can also improve filtration with a HEPA filter if desired. Alternatively, if you want new, I would look at the Aerus Commercial upright over the Proteam 1500 XP, as it would be just as powerful & not have the issues the Proteam has. Very easily found on Ebay, & in some areas sold by local vac shops, not just Aerus dealers. As for TriStar, Patriot/Airstorm & Filter Queen....yes they are good designs & well built, simple machines, but with lousy filtration by today's standards. Particularly the Filter Queen....there is NO WAY to filter the final exhaust & catch the carbon dust emissions the motor produces. The Patriot does have a Medik Aire HEPA Filter available for it, but at a whopping $200 dollars to replace it every 3 years! In addition, the bags on the TriStar & Patriot/Airstorm & the Filter Queen cones are single ply paper which leak TONS of dust into the cloth bag. That could be remedied on the Patriot/Airstorm & TriStar by using a Kenmore 5055 C/Q HEPA Cloth bag & lining the cloth bag with that, but considering the tools are cheap generic tools, the same Wessel Werk & Sebo powerheads Miele & Sebo use, & the outrageous HEPA filter cost, there are better options. I would take a look at a Electrolux canister like you were originally thinking of. The 2100/Ambassador style or Epic 6500 style would be worth looking at, & can be found for well under $500 on Ebay. One thing I would advise though is to look carefully at the vacuum and avoid ANY vacuum that says Aerus or that says manufactured by Aerus LLC. Only look at & consider the Electrolux (pre-Aerus) canisters only. While the Aerus canisters are good machines, they use single stage JEI Chinese motors that are inferior in quality to the double stage Electro Motor motors that Electrolux used & manufactured themselves. As for "hot rodding" it with the Perfect bags, I personally wouldn't bother. I have used the blue Aerus Home Solutions bags, aftermarket HEPA Cloth bags like the Perfect bags, & the generic 4 ply bags. I haven't found the HEPA Cloth bags to have that much better filtration or performance than the 4 ply bags, they both seem to be just as good at maintaining airflow in the vacuum. Also, neither bag leaves dust residue in the bag chamber. What I would do if you want to improve the filtration is remove the filter cover, save a old Electrolux hose machine end, put a 35mm tube in it, wrap a little clear packers tape around it & use a HEPA Cloth Miele KK bag in place of the after filter. Filters much better & less restrictive to the airflow, so it doesn't leak around the filter. The Electrolux canisters are built to last a lifetime, 4 ply bags can be had for as little as $1 per bag, & much easier to use since the hoses are more flexible & the tools are designed properly. Also consider that the cost of generic parts for Electrolux canisters....like cord reels & hoses....are MUCH LESS costly than Miele parts. If you want new, you should also take a look at the latest Kenmore canisters & the Titan canisters. These can be found for around the $500 dollar mark on Ebay, & much better value & features with the same cleaning performance & filtration as Miele & Sebo, for much less money. Look particularly at the Kenmore 600 & 700 series, the purple one & the 2 Kenmore Elite models. Those canisters have the new EF-9 & EF-11 HEPA filters that are encased in plastic now, & the vacuums are now a sealed HEPA filter vacuum like Miele is. The Titan canisters are retired Kenmore Progressive designs, but the back filter door & compartment modified & designed to take the EF-11 HEPA filter, so again they are a sealed HEPA filter vacuum. The tools on the Kenmore & Titan canisters are much better & nicer to live with than Miele's tools, you get a motorized mini powerhead, excellent floor brush, all the controls for the vacuum right on the handle unlike Miele & Sebo at DOUBLE the price, variable speed control, fairly easy to use telescopic wand, & a good aggressive powerhead that does a excellent job at lifting the carpet pile, grooming & getting deeply embedded dirt out. In addition, the generic Kenmore HEPA Cloth bags are just as good as the genuine bags, & very reasonably priced & BIG. The cost of bags & filters is a important consideration for you as a pet owner. If you go into a vac shop looking around & they try to steer you from a Kenmore or Titan canister claiming they are made in China....well yes, they are. But go ahead & laugh & ridicule them, & remind them so are their Miele & Sebo canisters! That's their dirty little secret....Miele & Sebo are NOT 100% German made! They do use some parts imported from China. Miele in particular does have a secondary factory in China where some of the lower end models are produced to this day. Also, the motors in both these brands are sourced by Domel, & produced in Slovenia & China. Do you REALLY want to pay DOUBLE for a German brand with Chinese parts when you can get a Kenmore or Titan that cleans just as well & just as well built for HALF what they cost? Good luck & hope you find something that works for you & doesn't break the bank. Rob

Post# 442072 , Reply# 3 5/21/2021 at 19:56 (1,068 days old) by 2cats2many (LAUREL)
Checkrate/Likes Wow thanks guys for sharing your insight. Blckhrt,I should have mentioned that my mom needs to use it and she had back surgery and has problems using the so called lightweight shark rocket since all the weight is up in the back where you hold it. I almost went with an epic 6500 but I was having trouble finding one with an adjustable wand (mom is short and dad is tall), plus some of the eBay prices I was seeing seemed unreasonable for how simple the machine was and the conditions of the machines. I really liked the design of the Kenmore elite bag holders and their inducer motors but I heard some bad stories about quality, perhaps the issues were exaggerated IDK. Almost stretched for a new Titan t9500, which really seemed to have all the right stuff if seemingly unwieldy in size and shape for my mom to use in our house. In the end I found a Miele s8 Kona for 450.00, seems barely used other than a brush roll full of hair. Thanks Kirby for 411, I feel like I won't be surprised if things go sideways and don't mind spending on upkeep of a nice machine (I drive a "cheap" old Mercedes lol). There are a lot of compromises but I think we can live with them given the price price, features and condition (plus my dad really wanted it since he almost bought one back in the day), Going out to pickup new filters and bags tomorrow and then dissemble for examination and cleaning. Now that I have something for my parents and I to use, I may revisit my original idea of hotroding a bad ass old vac as a hobby. Really want and O.G. G-series but since I was looking into Meile that blue moon has got some real 90s/2000s throw back cool going for it. Thanks again everyone. View Full Size

Post# 442103 , Reply# 4 5/22/2021 at 12:10 (1,067 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )
Checkrate/Likes 1 @2cats2many I really wouldn't ask vacuumland for a vice on buying anything. You'll get much more solid advice from Reddit or the vacuum talk Discord server. CLICK HERE TO GO TO vacuumdevil's LINK

Post# 442126 , Reply# 5 5/23/2021 at 08:13 (1,066 days old) by 2cats2many (LAUREL)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Wasn't so much advice as pros and cons. I liked this forum b/c it seems a little more geared towards retro vacuums. Ur prolly right tho I did see reddit has some dedicated forums for purchasing new machines. I feel like I got what I needed to be comfortable picking out something between this and reddit