New member Old Kirby 505


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Thread Number: 41679 / Tag: Pre-1950 Vacuum Cleaners
New member Old Kirby 505

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Post# 440977 4/17/2021 at 20:57 (1,098 days old) by autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes 2 Hi all, just like the antique fan forum this is a wealth of info so I had to join and ask a few question about this Kirby 505 I literally found in my back yard. Dad said it was his parents, not sure when they got it, he thinks it was in the late 60s or 70s and second hand of course. Im guessing this is a refurb of some kind as some parts don't make sense. First off the tag says model 505. Serial W217163. I stripped it down today to clean it all up, assess what parts it may need etc etc. I cant believe what good shape its in internally. The wires on the field winding, bulb and everything are mint. The power cord even looks like its serviceable which is pretty nuts. The armature bearings were in really good shape. Got all the old crap cleaned out and repacked with fresh grease. The felt washer in the nose section I was able to wash out and its still in great shape. Most things like that old felt washer, if it has one, are rock hard and just toast. It needs a belt, a bulb, bumpers, and if I wanna get picky the lever on the brush housing. Also not sure bout the bearings in the brush yet. So only a few questions. 1, whats the best way to get to the bearings in the brush. And second, what year is this thing? I could find no date code on the armature or the field winding. No other numbers stamped anywhere that would indicate a date code. The handle looks like a Dual Sanitroinic 50, as does the front lever to remove the brush assembly, but the K and sunburst around it cant be from a Dual Sanitroinic. The bumpers are green, as is the bag, with the K all over it. The dust trey is also green, however the headlight bumper looks more grey than green. Can any one shed some light on this? And the cleaning of the case. Mothers seems to be the goto, but im defiantly gonna pick up a polishing arbor for the drill. 30 min to get sorts maybe 1/3 of that motor case clean, and well it needs a ton of work still. Any tips there is appreciate it. Im considering just hitting everything wet with some 2000 grit before bothering to polish it. Try and get those years of grit off. Photos... < > Photo 1 of 12 View Full Size

Post# 440987 , Reply# 1 4/18/2021 at 00:26 (1,098 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *autocommon* The model 505 was produced from 1945 to 1948. These two pages will help you understand how numbers on the armature and field are read. For example: you may find 3424 and 0646. The 0646 will mean June 1946. ~Ben Photos... < > Photo 1 of 2 View Full Size

Post# 440989 , Reply# 2 4/18/2021 at 00:43 (1,098 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes I saw that info about the date code before I joined the site. Part of the reason I did join is because I cannot find any stampings on the armature plates...there are stampings on the winding insulators, I'll get those numbers tomorrow. The field windings do have the following numbers on it 5BA45 B012A 11560 DCXLS The document you posted as a picture does not come through clear enough to see exactly what the writing says where it's pointing to the stamped areas. but the jist is there I think. My numbers on the field coil was stamped on the top of the winding plates, like the version on the far right of that first page. Ill post some pics of the armature tomorrow Photos... < > Photo 1 of 2 View Full Size

Post# 440990 , Reply# 3 4/18/2021 at 01:21 (1,098 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *The* Motor is likely a 4 amp motor going off the power switch. I actually looked at a 3c motor and a 1953 4 amp motor. The 3c is dated 1940 and had a 6 blade fan. The six blade fan fit on the 4 amp motor. That's why I'm guessing you aren't seeing numbers on it. It's a sweet find and you did a great job fixing it up. I leave the safety switch on the machine but unhook it at the power switch.

Post# 440993 , Reply# 4 4/18/2021 at 03:24 (1,098 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes *autocomman* Mark, The armature would have said the exact same thing: 5BA45BD12A, 115/60. I think the date code would be right there. ~Ben

Post# 440994 , Reply# 5 4/18/2021 at 08:45 (1,097 days old) by Vacmadman (Pueblo Co.)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *505??* I'm sorry to say the only thing on this Kirby that looks like it's from a 505 is the fan case ID tag and the 6 blade fan. Even the fan case doesn't look right, the 505 did not have a spring on the nozzle latch. Everything else came from other models. This is a true "Frankenstein" Kirby. It has the push button switch that was used on the 513 through 515. The housing on a 505 had a round hole not a square one and at first glance it looks more like a Dual 80 for the most part due to the green color, but the dual 80 was the first with the V style handle and not a tube handle. The dual 50 also had the new body style that started with the 516. Pictured is the Dual 50 and the 505. Photos... < > Photo 1 of 6 View Full Size This post was last edited 04/18/2021 at 10:05

Post# 441005 , Reply# 6 4/18/2021 at 15:08 (1,097 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Umm* The headlight trim looks original. Ya the shiny nozzle latch that's a replacement.

Post# 441006 , Reply# 7 4/18/2021 at 16:49 (1,097 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Yeah no markings on the armature other than what's I mentioned before. So you think it's a 4 amp motor? I read somewhere if they were ever replaced they all used a 4 amp replacement. Definitely a frankenstein of parts. When was the spring loaded handle catch introduced? And what do you think about what the nozzle end may have come from? I'd live to at least get an idea of what all the parts came from so I can cobble the list together Photos... < > Photo 1 of 18 View Full Size

Post# 441009 , Reply# 8 4/18/2021 at 18:53 (1,097 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes *autocomman* Mark, I do believe the original 3 amp motor was replaced in the 1950s or early 1960s. According to the nameplate, your 505 originally had the 10175 armature and field set. The nozzle may be from a 513 or early 514 if the brush adjusting screws are 1" long instead of the more common 1-3/8" long. The handle fork I see came from a model 514 or 515, it was hollow for models 505 to 513. ~Ben

Post# 441010 , Reply# 9 4/18/2021 at 19:27 (1,097 days old) by autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes Ill measure the adjusting screws. Its defiantly got the dual 80 wheels, bumpers, bag, belt lifter and Emotr from an 80. Since I know this was bought second hand by my grandparents, most likely in a vacuum cleaner store, it may have started life as a 505 (parts of it) and maybe got a bunch of donor parts from a dual 80, and the motor/housing from what ever was early that had the square switch hole in the case. The nozzle is an early unit as the accent lines on it dont follow the shape of the whole nozzle like the later ones do. Ok, this gives me an idea of what it is. A repair store restoration from 50 years ago haha. Question is, how much does that matter haha. Seems like the things changed were improvements. The foot switch on the top as opposed to the earlier side switch. Ill continue cleaning it up and get it all happy again and that will be that. Probably wont see normal use, not like my vintage fans do. So how do the bearings come out of the roller? On the top of the Emotr case there is a little plastic knob, doesn't wanna move, and I don't wanna break it...thoughts?? Anything I should know about belts? I read a bit on new ones being too stiff, knurled ones being not great... Belt lifter, I cant stand that old one, its plastic and chromed plastic at that. Its not in great shape, just not into that style. Thoughts on a new one? Any good places I can look for parts that people prefer? Where are the seals supposed to be so I can order new ones as well, im pretty sure there are some missing... And is there a bag insert that can be used inside the fabric one? Something to make it better than it would have been? In my experience, while it has been a long time, with the fabric bags like this the dust you vacuum up tends to redistribute outside the bag as you vacuum heh. Or is this just nature of the beast?

Post# 441015 , Reply# 10 4/18/2021 at 20:43 (1,097 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes *autocomman* Mark, That's the Sweet-Aire port, which you use to apply drops of the Sweet-Aire solution to scent up the room while vacuuming (precursor to Odorific). That feature first appeared on the model 510 (1950-51). ~Ben

Post# 441017 , Reply# 11 4/18/2021 at 21:08 (1,097 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Ok, well that that would make sense with some of the other parts being 510. That would match the motor casing then, heh. Kind of a novel idea too

Post# 441019 , Reply# 12 4/19/2021 at 00:36 (1,097 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Emtor* Is 510-515 metal with a green d80 bottom. The handle grip was never made by kirby in green. The hood is 510-515. The switch is 513-d80. That's a 4 amp motor. The 4 amp motor and the silver power button usually go together. The nozzle is 513-515.

Post# 441028 , Reply# 13 4/19/2021 at 11:33 (1,096 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *autocomman* Mark, That is correct, you do not want to use the newer-style knurled belts (textured inside track) because they are tighter than the softer belts and may damage the older-style belt lifter and motor bearings. ~Ben

Post# 441039 , Reply# 14 4/19/2021 at 20:38 (1,096 days old) by autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes So much good info, thanks to everyone!! Ordered a new brush roller, the old was has a pretty good grove in it, and the bearings are pretty tired, not like its expensive. Comes with a new belt too. 2 new bulbs, and some seals and gaskets that were missing/falling apart. Also got a new spring assembly cause well the old one is rusty and Im not going as far as to having things re zinc plated with this one. Ill leave the green wheels and bumpers and handle, though its my least fav shade of green. Dad likes it, so ill just leave it. Ill wash the bag in a bucket a few times, then throw it in the washer. Im also gonna hit all the parts with 2000 or 3000 grip, wet sand everything to get that layer of crap off. Should make the polishing go much quicker. That will be that. Ill post the progress here as I go. Thanks again for all the info!

Post# 441041 , Reply# 15 4/19/2021 at 22:59 (1,096 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Sole* Plate (bottom plate of the nozzle) I'd clean it off either make a felt gasket or silicone. The older models tend to rattle but this helps. Your armature looks really good. The drill marks in the center magnets are what they do to balance the motor. Thet usually don't have the motor stamp on replacement 4 amp motors. Pic 1 is what original nozzle looks like. 2(Chris hicks Hmc's 505). This is what the nicest 505 looks like. 3. 509 and 3c motor housings. The all metal entire is from a 4c. The nozzles are what original 505s look like. Pic 4 is Chris's 505 again. Pic 5 Chris's Pic 6 my all original 505. 7 is 510-512 nozzle. 8 . My kirby 505 original belt cap. Pic 9 looks like a painted trim 505. 10. Original bag and embroidered bag mine. 11. My 505 tag. 12. Original emtor for 505. 13. 510 belt lifter 505 belt cap. 14 my 3c and 509 embroidered bag. 15. Chris 505. Chris's 505. 16. Photos... < > Photo 1 of 16 View Full Size

Post# 441107 , Reply# 16 4/22/2021 at 09:25 (1,093 days old) by Vacmadman (Pueblo Co.)
Checkrate/Likes *Family heirloom* Mark, The fact that this Kirby belonged to your Grandparents makes it a project of love. I look forward to seeing it when it's complete. This will be a great family heirloom that can be past down for generations to come. Welcome to the group. Jim

Post# 441148 , Reply# 17 4/23/2021 at 17:30 (1,092 days old) by Ubergreenguru (Chicago, Illinois )
Checkrate/Likes *Awesome Find!* It looks to be in rough shape, but with some TLC you'll be able to get that cast aluminum shining like new again! I definitely look forward to seeing your future posts as progress is made on the restoration of this beautiful vintage Kirby machine & cannot wait to see it once it's finished! Thanks for sharing & Best of luck to you! ~Justin in Chicago

Post# 441190 , Reply# 18 4/26/2021 at 10:24 (1,089 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes Progress made! Got a hand ful of new parts, brush roller, belt, bulbs and seals. Started to wet sand the pieces to knock the junk and what not off the case. Most of it came out pretty good so far. 1500 and 2000 grit. Makes for a much easier polishing job. I ordered a few buffing pieces for the drill to make easier work of it. So I'll have to go over some of the bits again. Assembly is pretty straight forward. Motor went together with no problem. Wiring in, safety switch hooked up, works just fine. I do need to clean the rusty heads on a lot of the hardware and clear coat it. I wanna keep the slotted screws and while some are easy to get the oval head stuff, the shape isn't always the same, and slotted hardware can be a bit tougher to find...without ordering in bulk. I do need to repair the threads for the nozzle clamp. Getting the screw out was not easy, and it took all the threads out when I got it out. So I'm gonna do a helicoil insert to fix that. But got it powered up, I had to hear it run. Sounds like a vacuum haha. And insanely smooth. Hardly any vibration at all honestly with my hand right on the motor. I'll double check the amp draw later but so far so good. The link is a quick running video CLICK HERE TO GO TO Autocomman's LINK Photos... < > Photo 1 of 6 View Full Size

Post# 441191 , Reply# 19 4/26/2021 at 12:38 (1,089 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes And holy crap that handle spring is a beast. I know there was a tool for it, but I didn't wanna spend the a for a tool I'll use one time. It wasn't too bad, but still...the new spring had quite a bit more tension, and even then it's not like the old one was a light weight haha.

Post# 441207 , Reply# 20 4/26/2021 at 19:01 (1,089 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes *autocomman* Mark, Your 505 sounds pretty good so far! ~Ben

Post# 441211 , Reply# 21 4/26/2021 at 21:49 (1,089 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Hey* It sounds good the bearings in bearing plate might need greased.

Post# 441248 , Reply# 22 4/27/2021 at 23:47 (1,088 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I cleaned and repacked the bearings. I'll admit they are not as quiet as I'd like. But they turn quite smoothly. Since this will be more of a show piece I'm not too worried about it honestly. If it was gonna be in regular use then yeah I'd order new bearings. But with the cloth bag, no way to hepa it really...then it just won't see normal use.

Post# 441424 , Reply# 23 5/3/2021 at 19:30 (1,082 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Well just about there. The seal between the EMPTOR and the fan case isn't thick enough. I got one of the cork gaskets. I found an o-ring as well online but haven't bought it yet...what the right combo of parts? You can see In the pics the gap where the seal is. I repaired the threads in the fan housing as well for the nozzle latch. Muggy weld. It's a product I bought to try on repairing potmetal on an vintage fan I did. It's a really low melting point solder almost. Some weird composite and a special flux. It works surprisingly well, like way better than you think it ever should. I cleaned the hole, filled it and redrilled and tapped it...didn't crank on the screw but it's tight, not gonna come loose. I highly recommend this stuff. You do have the heat the section but the melting point is like 300 350?..so it doesn't take much heat at all to get the job done. It also looks like garbage as it goes on but holy crap is it good stuff. Bag cleaned up ok, washed it by hand. There is small hole in it, not bad but still...it's pretty worn. The cord cleaned up well, it's actually grey lol. And the belt lifter actually came out decent. I wasn't sure as it's just chromed plastic. Only issue I had on reassembly was I didn't route the lamp wire correctly and had to pull it all apart again to fix that. Otherwise it works well. Just did my living room with it. What is the correct height of the brush roller? And what's the logic with the height adjustment for the nozzle? Drop it to the floor and up one click? Photos... < > Photo 1 of 9 View Full Size

Post# 441427 , Reply# 24 5/3/2021 at 20:07 (1,082 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes *Autocomman* Mark, The brush roll bristles should stick out beyond the rug plate at least 1/16 of an inch, or better yet, 1/8 inch. ~Ben

Post# 441508 , Reply# 25 5/5/2021 at 19:40 (1,080 days old) by Autocomman (LA)
Checkrate/Likes Anyone have thoughts on what seals should be between the fan housing and EMPTOR?

Post# 441509 , Reply# 26 5/5/2021 at 20:05 (1,080 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes *Autocomman* Mark, That part number you are looking for is 1880, which is an Emtor O-ring gasket for models 505 to 515. ~Ben CLICK HERE TO GO TO KirbyClassicIII's LINK

Post# 441563 , Reply# 27 5/7/2021 at 12:44 (1,078 days old) by Vacmadman (Pueblo Co.)
Checkrate/Likes *Nice Job!* Mark Your Kirby looks great you've done a very nice job restoring it...well done! Jim

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