Thread Number: 41248  /  Tag: 50s/60s/70s Vacuum Cleaners
What to do? Old metal base Sanitaire in need of brushroll? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 437499   1/19/2021 at 22:27 (1,185 days old) by superocd (PNW US)        

I acquired a Sanitaire 643 which takes a square end brush roll. The brushroll that came with it was trashed, as in the threads of the axle bar (or whatever it's called, it went through the wooden brushroll) were worn smooth. The square-end endcaps no longer held this axle (and thus the brush roll) in place, so I threw it out. Didn't think it would be so difficult to come across a square end brushroll. Wrong.

There are two square end Vibragroomer brushrolls on eBay at a steep price (one's a VG1 and the other is a VGII, they're both more than I paid for the vacuum) and even if they were cheap, I'm not sure if it would be good to use either of them in my machine being that it has a 3.35 amp motor (I heard somewhere that the Vibragroomers should never be used in a Eureka/Sanitaire with a motor below 6 amps). What should I do? I cleaned up and repainted this old Sanitaire and would love to use it, but it's basically a paperweight right now with no brushroll. Does anyone know where I could find a wood brushroll with square ends (think these were called Distributor)?

I called the two vacuum shops in town, one doesn't stock any parts for Sanitaire and the other insisted that 1) no Sanitaire ever took a square-end brushroll, they're all hex-end and 2) there "couldn't" possibly be a Sanitaire older than 1986 since that's when they were founded, according to the owner (lol), then rudely told me that I was trying to put too much effort into something that was "past it's best-by date" (and went on about how it would leak dust, not perform as well as a modern vac, etc. when I told him that I truly had a Sanitaire made by the Eureka-Williams Company in 1972 right there in front of me, on my workbench). So even if he did have the brushroll I needed, no sale.

Ideas? FWIW, I saved the end caps thinking I could swap those onto a modern VGII, but it didn't work as the diameter of the VGII is bigger than the inner diameter of the endcaps. Even if it did work, I'm not positive I'd want to use a VGII on it as I'm not sure if it would cause undue stress on the motor and its bearings.

Post# 437501 , Reply# 1   1/19/2021 at 22:56 (1,185 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Adaptor

 lesinutah's profile picture
You can use a vibra groomer on 7 amp motors. It's actually what they put on some of the commercial lines still.
A square end brush roll doesn't sound right.


Post# 437504 , Reply# 2   1/20/2021 at 04:23 (1,185 days old) by kirbyklekter (Concord,Ca.)        
Scratching my head on this too...

 I've never seen square ended rollers on Sanitaires and I have five. Do you have any other Eurekas by chance? I was thinking you could try putting one of those in. I know they are hex ended but have you tried a hexed roller? If your machine will only take a square ended roller then I'm stumped. Using your saved end caps to build your own?

Sanitaire motors are pretty strong in any size. Seems like as long as what ever roller you use is fairly close in weight to the original, and the length of the bristles are similar and the bearings are ok, I don't THINK you'd have a problem straining the motor.

There are a few members here who have extensive collections of Eureka and Sanitaires. I know they will help when they read your post, I wish I could help more. Billy

Post# 437506 , Reply# 3   1/20/2021 at 08:51 (1,184 days old) by superocd (PNW US)        
These Sanitaires are rare...

 I'm sure 95% of the metal base Sanitaires have been used up and tossed after years of heavy use. The one I got was probably forgotten in a dark storeroom. The motor, fortunately, sounds great. Unfortunately, Eureka switched from square end brushrolls to the hex end variety, probably when they switched from cast aluminum bases (which they should have stuck with) to plastic bases. For some reason metal base Eureka domestic machines aren't as common as same-era Hoover Convertibles and Kirby machines, so I guess that circles back to the dilemma of a lack of square end brushrolls on the market. Luckily it doesn't look like Eureka changed the motor mounting cutout or screw pattern (I could be wrong, but it looks unchanged to the new Sanitaires) so if the motor ever needed to be replaced, at least it could be (in theory).

Post# 437507 , Reply# 4   1/20/2021 at 09:04 (1,184 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
FYI: They used metal VG1's on 3.35 amp Eurekas (like mine with cord winder and military box top bag) so a VG1 would work perfectly well on your Sanitaire.

Square end brush rolls (wood with red beater-bar) were made as replacement parts until just a few years ago by CWP. I'm sure you can find one New Old Stock. I ordered one about two years ago to save in case I ever needed one for my vintage machines.

Good luck and Congrats on your early Sanitaire.

Post# 437520 , Reply# 5   1/20/2021 at 13:58 (1,184 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
The brush rolls on my two Sanitaires, a 1980s vintage SC686 and a 2012 vintage S645, have five-sided ends, squared off on three sides and 'pointed' on the fourth. The pointed end goes into the machines' chassis first. Perhaps it's possible to reverse that to put a VG1 in yours or just swap the ends off of your existing brush roll onto a new one.

Check eBay for replacement brush rolls. They're fairly inexpensive, compared with those for other brands.

Post# 437675 , Reply# 6   1/23/2021 at 22:39 (1,181 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Replacement

 lesinutah's profile picture
You can get a vg2 for about $15 on amazon. They have rubber adapters for brush ends to fit older models. You won't find a cg1 for less than $30 minimum.


Post# 437810 , Reply# 7   1/27/2021 at 00:25 (1,178 days old) by superocd (PNW US)        
Update

 I secured a VG1 brushroll with square endcaps from a smaller vac shop with an online presence. Called to confirm they actually had it before I placed the order as I actually ordered one from another vac shop only to get a phone call stating that they had to cancel and were refunding me because their inventory was off and they didn't actually have that brushroll -- and the fact that I came to the very quick realization that a Eureka/Sanitaire square end brushroll was unobtanium -- probably would have better luck picking the winning numbers of the lottery than finding a square-end brushroll, whether VG1, VG2 or even a plain wood one.

Are metal base Eureka/Sanitaires (which take the square end brushrolls) that rare for there to be no market for square end brushrolls? Seems like anybody can find parts for Kirby or Hoover Convertibles of the same era all day long, including brushrolls. This is kind of sad, because if someone's trusty metal-base Eureka or Sanitaire needs a brushroll, they are probably going to have to toss an otherwise perfectly running machine, only adding to the scarcity of these machines.

I never imagined that parts are hard to find for an older Eureka/Sanitaire metal-base model, as I assumed that the only difference aside from cosmetics was the fact that it used a metal base. Nope, once I actually got the machine (and the first time I've ever seen a metal-base Eureka/Sanitaire up close) there are a couple of differences -- the brushroll endcaps being one of them. The baseplate is another part that has some key differences, as the ones designed for metal bases doesn't have the two front notches that attach to the tabs on the base like used currently, instead, there is one single angled metal tab on the inner part towards the middle that goes into a notch of the base. I managed to track one down on eBay for a reasonable price as the original was quite rusty and I didn't feel like trying to fight a losing battle as scrubbing it with BKF and steel wool only removes the surface rust but doesn't stop the ongoing corrosion.

There's a couple of other differences too, such as the Dial-A-Nap dial (only four settings vs. six) and the bag spring doesn't attach to the cord hook (which are welded onto the handle tube on these old Sanitaires, vs. the plastic kind that clip on with the newer Sanitaires) but instead it attaches via a very small tab/hook to a metal bracket and tab/hook (which I lost during teardown, so I did a first and zip-tied the top of the spring to the bracket instead of trying to hunt down a part certainly to be long NLA like the brushroll). Luckily the mount pattern for the bag and the motor appear to interchange with the new plastic-based Sanitaires, though I haven't confirmed this. The wheels/axles seem interchangeable too.

Anyway, when I called, I was told that was their last one. Should be here in a week. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket (lol)!

Post# 437821 , Reply# 8   1/27/2021 at 08:03 (1,177 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
I'm glad you found what you needed. The nice part is now you don't have to replace the brush roll when the bristles wear out, just the brush strips, which are cheap and plentiful. The four-position Dial-A-Nap continued into the early plastic-base machines. My SC686 from the early '80s has one.

Post# 437842 , Reply# 9   1/27/2021 at 13:23 (1,177 days old) by kirbyklekter (Concord,Ca.)        
metal base

 They actually still make a steel base and hooded Sanitaire, but it's not a commercial machine,it's referred to as Industrial Sanitaire model H-3480. 2-speeds,6-heights,HEPA,ergonomic handle and 7amp motor. They don't mention the roller or the ends it uses square or other. $309ea.

Well darn, I just found the PDF owners manual and they use the 5-sided rubber roller ends on the Industrial model as well. Was hoping that would be a source for you and others with similar square ends. Nice that you were able to get a new roller which I imagine will be the last you need to buy. As Human said you can re-brush when needed and the bearings are replaceable if ever needed.

Post# 437851 , Reply# 10   1/27/2021 at 18:51 (1,177 days old) by superocd (PNW US)        
Well darn...

 If I knew that Sanitaire had a model with a steel base, I would have gladly paid the $100 extra to get it over the plastic-base SC886 I bought in 2016. Darn.

I think if there are any Achilles heels with the Sanitaire design, it is, by far, in the plastic base. In fact, the base on my 886 started to crack where the inner edge of the brushroll chamber met the side of the base -- mind you, it's in a home environment and treated very well (not rammed into walls or furniture, no kids so no toys, coins or debis to clank around, etc.).

I ended up buying a new Quick Kleen plastic base and swapped it out. They never should have stopped producing the aluminum base, in my opinion, but I do understand their reasons.

If it wasn't for the unobtanium square end brushroll quandary I just went through, I would actively search for NOS or used good-condition cast Eureka aluminum bases for my SC886 and my S677. I'm sure cast aluminum bases are *really* unobtanium though.

Post# 437856 , Reply# 11   1/27/2021 at 21:42 (1,177 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hmm

 lesinutah's profile picture
Did you miss my post or what is everyone not getting.
The vg2 has a rubber end that when taken off will fit your vacuum. That's why the rubber adaptor is there. It has nothing to do with plastic or metal. Get a vg2 and it will work. I've had 1960s eurekas 70s and 80s. They all can use the vg2. The brand new ones too.
If nobody actually reads this maybe don't ask a question when an answer is given.

Post# 437865 , Reply# 12   1/27/2021 at 22:57 (1,177 days old) by superocd (PNW US)        
@lesinutah

 I see what you mean about the rubber end on the brushroll, but the square notches for the brushroll inside this base's casting is physically smaller than the notched ends on the endcaps on a modern VGII brushroll that I've taken out of my SC886.

Being that you said you had a '60s and '70s Eurekas that could take a current VGx brushroll, I'm almost wondering if Eureka produced base castings that would take multiple types of brushroll ends before they went plastic and you were lucky in the sense that the casting of your Eurekas were compatible with current VGx endcaps. I have no idea what Eureka did, in fact this is my first Eureka-made machine that isn't from the 2000s during Electrolux (a 2006 S677 and a 2016 SC886).

Post# 437867 , Reply# 13   1/27/2021 at 23:06 (1,177 days old) by superocd (PNW US)        
Whoops, forgot the picture

 Had to give it a whirl even though the square notches on the old brushroll seemed smaller than the hexed notches on current VGx brushrolls. No such luck, unfortunately.

This is the aluminum base of my old S-643 and a VG2 brush roll that I've pulled out of my SC886. The end cap of the "modern" VGII (with the outer rubber piece pulled off) is indeed too big for the notch inside the casting.

Trust me, I would have jumped for joy if it happened to fit!

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 437913 , Reply# 14   1/28/2021 at 18:20 (1,176 days old) by kirbyklekter (Concord,Ca.)        
Hope springs eternal...

 I hope you find a solution to your roller/metal base dilemma I googled "all metal based chassis for Sanitaire vacuums" and was taken to a page with a plethora of plastic bases but couldn't find metal. There are a hand full of dealers there, some claiming to have anything you need.

Since it appears the metal bases Industrial Sanitaire h-3480 is still being sold, you might want to contact one of the dealers to see about compatibility, I doubt they are using square end rollers anymore, but maybe you could build your own machine using your present motor from scratch.

This h-3480 uses easy roll rubber wheels and has the top fill paper or hepa filtration with a double zipped outer bag. I was thinking since I would like to convert my SC888 from dump bag to paper, which requires a conversion kit, I would look in to converting to a newer style system.

Google took me to another page where there was a lot of info on the h-3480 and there is an owners manual for said vac. They have a couple YouTube videos on changing the belt which would show the roller being used. "U-line" is a company who sells these, I think these are exclusively sold through just a few dealers, but if their metal chassis is similar to what you have, you may be in luck! Billy

Post# 437919 , Reply# 15   1/28/2021 at 22:03 (1,176 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Uline

 lesinutah's profile picture
Is a high prices commercial supply company for retailers.
A royal brush roll?
Ill try looking up info it looks like it's missing something.


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