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Thread Number: 41096
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Damage from using it as a blower |
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Post# 436162 12/11/2020 at 12:42 (1,221 days old) by rivstg1  (colorado springs) |
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Here are some pics & an explanation of what can happen to your kirby fan when using the machine as a blower with the supplies nozzle guard from a kirby technician of 40 years.
“ This is the result of using the air intake nozzle on the sentrie and later kirby when in the blower mode. Completely restricted air flow due to stupid design. Shame on kirby! The heat buildup was so extreme, look at the angle of the fan blades. This all happened in less then 5min.” Recommended action: 1, use an earlier model nozzle guard which has more airflow 2. Drill many more holes in the factory nozzle guard ( Sentria1 & newer) to increase airflow Pics: G5 nozzle cover, sentria 2 cover, & Legend 2 covers....notice the opening sizes | ||
| Post# 436165 , Reply# 1 12/11/2020 at 15:55 (1,221 days old) by kirby519 (Wisconsin) | ||
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That is just WOW!!!!. When I use them in blower mode. I just raise the head to it's highest setting. Do you know how long the machine was used in blower mode to heat up the motor enough to damage/warp the fan? | ||
| Post# 436168 , Reply# 2 12/11/2020 at 16:23 (1,221 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 436170 , Reply# 3 12/11/2020 at 16:26 (1,221 days old) by mmcphee (Lisbon Falls, Maine) | ||
Diamond Edition | ||
| Post# 436171 , Reply# 4 12/11/2020 at 16:32 (1,221 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
Wow that’s really bad iv heard that this tool can cause problems if used in the blower mode for too long
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Post# 436175 , Reply# 5 12/11/2020 at 19:19 (1,221 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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@mmcphee. if its like the G5. no problem . Its only the Sentria I and II and avalir styles that are too restrictive.
one can just use a drill bit and make the opening much better for airflow. @kirby519. it was stated that under 10 minutes did that. I kinda wonder about that though....sounds too quick. I've used mine while having the Hand butler tool 2 attached to a Sentria nozzle cover but noticed no issues....I sold it before I could check it out again ( inspect the fan) | ||
| Post# 436179 , Reply# 6 12/11/2020 at 20:39 (1,221 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
The reason for this is that the method was still kept the same even though the Kirby's construction changed. Once the switch to a plastic fan was made, there was greater risk of heat exposure and melting, and the airflow was less, compared to the metal fan era.
Also I never at all used those novelty tools. I think once I used it to blow the dust out of a PC but that is not good because the tools generate static which can kill your PC. You will get a lot better results and more airflow using a real inflatable blower. No reason to modify or ruin the tools. | ||
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Post# 436184 , Reply# 7 12/12/2020 at 00:31 (1,221 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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Although Kirby is not my thing | ||
| Post# 436185 , Reply# 8 12/12/2020 at 00:39 (1,221 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 436192 , Reply# 9 12/12/2020 at 10:54 (1,220 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
Nozzle | ||
| Post# 436216 , Reply# 10 12/12/2020 at 21:54 (1,220 days old) by ridgidwd0670 (se wood co ohio) | ||
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| Post# 436229 , Reply# 11 12/13/2020 at 09:05 (1,220 days old) by kirby519 (Wisconsin) | ||
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So far I have been lucky with mine. I do use it for air cleaning operations. Thankfully none last more than 10 minutes. I have used my Sentria to inflate a kids pool a few times. I may very well rethink that operation. | ||
| Post# 436238 , Reply# 13 12/13/2020 at 11:18 (1,219 days old) by KirbyG6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 436239 , Reply# 14 12/13/2020 at 11:23 (1,219 days old) by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado) | ||
It’s not common, but have have seen both a Kirby fan and a couple others deform like that. I wasn’t able to tell on the Kirby but I got the sense they used it heavily with the hose, the other machines I saw this in were run clogged for an extended period of time. I had no idea using the blower function would also do it!
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| Post# 436244 , Reply# 16 12/13/2020 at 13:10 (1,219 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
The Kirby Diamond Edition Overheating Myth Busted!
The Kirby Diamond Edition Overheating Myth
Electric motors run cooler when running slower, not hotter. Therefore, less cooling is required. While I'm sure that there are plenty of ways to break a two speed Diamond Edition, running on low speed isn't one of them. Bill
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| Post# 436246 , Reply# 17 12/13/2020 at 13:45 (1,219 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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| Post# 436255 , Reply# 18 12/13/2020 at 20:33 (1,219 days old) by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado) | ||
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I only really use my Kirby’s as uprights, mostly because I am just so much more inclined to use an upright, then just use a suction only hose on the central for all the tool use rather than bothering with the upright tools.
As to the Kirby burning out, I was under the impression it wasn’t the motor burning out so much as the circuit board. These have a simple board with a resistor or multiple that actually do the reduction in current. It’s mounted to the bottom of the Bakelite motor housing. Since the resistance is what cuts the speed, the more one runs that machine, especially if they run it with the nozzle all the way down too low, it loads that motor up. The motor itself won’t get too hot, but as it tries to draw more current that board is going to get HOT HOT HOT! I believe this was the issue, but could be wrong. | ||
| Post# 436267 , Reply# 19 12/14/2020 at 06:47 (1,219 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 436277 , Reply# 20 12/14/2020 at 11:52 (1,218 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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The Diamond Edition Circuit Board
consists of one component, which is a barrel diode. This diode (when activated) creates a small voltage drop which adds resistance to the coil windings. This diode will get hot and could fail over time if the Kirby is used in an abusive manner. This diode essentially receives no direct cooling.
For example, if a user decides to vacuum a very resistive carpet (tall, thick, etc.) in low RPM mode for an extended period of time (say 20 minutes non-stop or longer) in a high ambient temperature environment (say 90F), the diode will begin to break down and then eventually fail. When diodes fail, they smell very bad. This failure could easily get interpreted as a motor failure, which it isn't. It should be categorized as a specific component failure or switching assembly failure. Bill
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| Post# 436287 , Reply# 21 12/14/2020 at 18:45 (1,218 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Nozzle | ||
| Post# 436294 , Reply# 22 12/15/2020 at 00:34 (1,218 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 436318 , Reply# 23 12/15/2020 at 18:16 (1,217 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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| Post# 436319 , Reply# 24 12/15/2020 at 18:44 (1,217 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Doubtful | ||
| Post# 436381 , Reply# 26 12/17/2020 at 00:33 (1,216 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 436402 , Reply# 27 12/17/2020 at 17:19 (1,215 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Using A Diode To Control Speed
is quite common. Oreck uses them in their handle assemblies. Since all they wanted was a single power drop and not a circuit to create continuously variable motor speed, this method is cheap and effective.
Bill
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Post# 436416 , Reply# 28 12/18/2020 at 07:57 (1,215 days old) by Kloveland (Tulsa) |
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Diode  | ||
| Post# 436453 , Reply# 29 12/19/2020 at 02:17 (1,214 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 436467 , Reply# 30 12/19/2020 at 14:02 (1,213 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Kirby is not a $3000 vacuum cleaner
And anyone who pays that much for one (including financing) is a fool. The Avalir 2 lists for $1499 and I've read plenty of posts from those who negotiate that down to around $800 cash.
I don't know what the Diamond Edition MSRP was in 2005-ish, but I'll guess around $1200. Someone out there will know the exact price and will hopefully post it in this thread. Remember that Kirbys have had two speeds for many decades and a Diamond Edition technically has 4 speeds. Without a major redesign, this was an economical way of adding two additional speeds. Obviously, Kirby dropped back down to just two speeds. Bill
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| Post# 436491 , Reply# 31 12/19/2020 at 17:28 (1,213 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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Yes, door to door Kirby sales companies work much in the same way as car dealerships. They mark up the prices on purpose to pad the company's profit margin. A Kirby does not actually cost $2,000, $3,000 or whatever arbitrary numbers people are getting conned out of them for. The MSRP from Kirby is just a tad over $1,000, like vaclab posted from an actual retal sell-through model. Kirby has to get back what it cost them to make it, which only increases as time goes on because Kirby uses so much metal and slag casting in an era of Chinese plastic and vaccu-forming. Now it seems like a lot even at that price, but consider it will last the rest of your life, it is not a bad deal. Even those $700 Mieles love to clog up at the base due to the extreme angles of the airpath. I mean people pay that much more for a BBQ grill just to toss it out 2 years later.
The prices people are paying at door to door sales are what the DEALER is making profit on because they already paid money out of their pocket to lease the vacuums out from Kirby on the condition of a verified sale and payment from the customer. They more than double the price of the vacuum in order to cover the cost to buy more Kirbys from Kirby so they can sell more and make more money. It's an ongoing looping cycle. So because of the pressure to make sales, they have to push hard and get mean to get those vacuums sold or else they can't make the sale and get the money back. The person doing the actual sales also gets a cut too, but only if they sell one. A lot of times they will not bother and just file the serial number off and take it to a pawn shop and pawn it off and say they sold it. That's how pawn shops get full of brand new Kirbys so soon after they come out. I seen an Avalir 2 at my local cash 'n' pawn in the 'hood for $150 but someone marked out the model tag with a sharpie and it looked like they took some car keys and destroyed the serial number. It also somehow had gotten so filthy even though these just came out fairly recently. I wanted it so badly but I didn't want to risk buying it and having my name attached to the sales records for it, even though it would probably be the pawn shop that would get in trouble if Kirby ever found out. But yeah, dodes for controlling motor speed is pretty commonplace, it's the issue of what diodes they use and if they put in good ones that can take more capacity than they are rated for and still function safely. I have a Sunpentown vacuum that has a variable motor speed controller that is not unlike the dimmer knob on a light switch, and you can wind the motor way down to just a putter and it still runs, I don't know how, but it does. Pretty much all the vacuums were recalled years ago and they self-destructed on their own due to the motors overheating and erupting in flames and catching the plastic inside the vacuum on fire (hmm I wonder why) | ||
| Post# 436510 , Reply# 32 12/20/2020 at 03:30 (1,213 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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Post# 436949 , Reply# 33 12/31/2020 at 12:07 (1,201 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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more photo damage
This is an interesting case....seeing how much damage was done. I have personally used a Sentria model with the new Hand Butler for polishing some past Kirbys....but, I sold it w/o inspecting it afterwards to compare to this one. It didn't make any noise or smells to let me though. I firmly believe the lack of airflow while using the blower/fan shield attachment is the big culprit to overheating. Not enough surface area for air intake.
Notice how the blades are laying down....and not in the direction one might guess they would from excessive heat. Look how it was melting on the front and back of the fan!!! Notice that it actually increased in its overall diameter when placed up against a non heated damaged fan....heated one is larger a little. wild evidence I'd say. Kelton | ||
| Post# 436978 , Reply# 34 12/31/2020 at 19:58 (1,201 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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Funny thing about the blades laying in the 'opposite' direction. It occurred to me looking at it squarely from above in the first photo. If you forget the direction of rotation and consider only centrifugal force, because the blades are at an angle to center, their mass would be pulled exactly outward from center, along the radius. Which is exactly the result. The more I think about it, the more it occurs to me that the centrifugal force would be massive compared to the air resistance that one might assume would push the blades over in the other direction. In fact, the air being moved by the fan is subject to the exact same centrifugal forces, and would actually push the blades outward of center, and not so much in the direction you would at first imagine.
Science! | ||
| Post# 437005 , Reply# 35 1/2/2021 at 00:56 (1,200 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 437062 , Reply# 37 1/3/2021 at 19:20 (1,198 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Power | ||
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Post# 437072 , Reply# 38 1/3/2021 at 23:24 (1,198 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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superocd
I dont understand your statement about using it as a blower and it being unsanitary.... I've used 2 of my kirby's in blower mode several times. Nothing is injested into the kirby whatsoever. with the nozzle air cover on the front...and the hose hooked up to the exhaust of the Kirby.....air is sucked in and blown out... nothing coats the impeller, fancase, outlet....etc. Are you describing a different action than I am ( or how the original person used there Kirby when it destructed?
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| Post# 437074 , Reply# 39 1/3/2021 at 23:50 (1,198 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 437082 , Reply# 40 1/4/2021 at 05:50 (1,198 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
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Filtering the air going into an inflatable mattress, chair, pool toy, etc is a mindless exercise. There is no purpose in it. It has no effect on the inflatable item if the air is dirty.
Just walking around downtown in any city in the summertime is going to have 20x more dirty air than a vacuum cleaner. Also just FYI the air inside an air compressor is full of rust and motor oil as well as mildew from condensation from expansion and contraction of the air. That's why they have drain tubes. An old air compressor that was not cared for and exploded: uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160317... | ||
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Post# 437243 , Reply# 43 1/9/2021 at 21:36 (1,192 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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kirby519 | ||
| Post# 437271 , Reply# 45 1/10/2021 at 19:44 (1,191 days old) by Juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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This maybe irrelevant to be bringing up, but we’re due for a new Kirby anytime now. I mean avalir 2 (really sentria 4) is going on 3 years now. Time for something new | ||
| Post# 437369 , Reply# 46 1/14/2021 at 22:14 (1,187 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Yes | ||
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