Thread Number: 40929
/ Tag: 50s/60s/70s Vacuum Cleaners
Working on vacuum motors? |
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Post# 434713   11/8/2020 at 15:06 (1,236 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)   |   | |
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Do you all take apart/work on vacuum cleaner motors? I have never done so, I just take the machine apart for cleaning, and blow any dust out of the motor/fan openings, but I don't take motors apart. Regular portable fan motors I can usually figure out for cleaning/lubricating, but vacuum cleaner motors with the brush/armature I don't touch. I once took apart a Hoover Helpmate hand vac and I tried to clean the motor and I ended up breaking the brush holders and ruined it. Somebody probably could have fixed it but I didn't know what to do with it.
I do wonder sometimes what I'll do if any of my machines ever need new brushes installed. I just don't take them out for fear of breaking them. Also I think most vacuums use grease instead of oil in the motor bearings? I don't know how to work on those either. |
Post# 434715 , Reply# 2   11/8/2020 at 16:20 (1,236 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)   |   | |
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Post# 434717 , Reply# 3   11/8/2020 at 16:44 (1,236 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)   |   | |
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Automotive electrical cleaner. There is no power to the motor so you can spray it down with soapy water. You have to be careful with what you use on it. You have to make sure the motor(armature) is dry before re-installing.
The field coil you can spray with the same electrical cleaner or soapy water. It has copper and sends the power to the switch. I put my armature in the collet of my drill and make sure the fan blades are square and it spins good. I use contraries stone on the commuter. I then blow off the dust from the stone. You can spin on the actual fan check it for balance. I know you can do more than I said but I don't know what or how. I keep it simple. It doesn't hurt to have a clean motor. There are tests you can do to check to see if the motor is good. It's on you tube. I did take off a piece soldered onto the field coil. I'm pretty sure a professional installed them. I put everything back together except the motor housing shell. I pushed the power button on and a spark I turned it off. I looked and I thought maybe it's burning off something. I turned on again. The carbon brushes got stuck and quickly a small green spark and then purple. In short the part I took off helped the motor run. I took it off and basically the vacuum motor armature and coil melted. I had another motor I was testing. I didn't realize I didn't have the right coil on to match the armature. Kirby had company A make motors for do 50 and ds80. In DS 80 production run Company A stop making motors. Company B started making motors. I put company A armature with Company B coil. I'll be damned this melted too. I watched in disbelief as my second unit burned up everything. It was my first major restoration. I had a few months into it. I cried a little in shock. I learned quite a bit. You can make the nicest shiniest vacuum. It can be up in smoke. I have exploded views of 505 to Avalir. I never mess with the motor or coil other than small cleaning. I don't want you to be like oh I'm not touching the motor. I'm just saying just clean the motor and be smart. Green is copper burning blue and purple are the other metals melting. I'm a plumber now and watch copper get heated up every day. I asked the journeyman why it was green. He told me its copper heating up. Copper has to be 1200 degrees. I'm the apprentice and I prep everything and he uses the torch. I'm still timid with the torch. I'm watching and learning. |
Post# 434728 , Reply# 4   11/8/2020 at 19:03 (1,236 days old) by Dysonman1 (the county)   |   | |
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Post# 434729 , Reply# 5   11/8/2020 at 19:59 (1,236 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)   |   | |
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Cleaning up a vacuum so much defeats the purpose and is a wasted exercise if the motor has been run into the ground or never repaired. It's like polishing up an old barn find car to concourse level quality but the engine is seized up and cann't run.
Motors are relatively easy to repair. If the armature needs to be rewound - leave that to a pro. But 99% of motors just need to be washed, new grease, polished, and new brushes. There is special grease for electric motors as well as a polishing stone. Just find a good video on YouTube that is not clickbait or fake junk, and also look for old handyman books that detail motor repairs. Start with a simple vacuum with not a lot of features that also isn't rare or expensive to get a feel for it. One that has a simple easy to understand motor. Once you get into newer and premium vacuums with multiple motors. multiple statge motors, overload protection circuitry, stall protection circuitry, all that stuff, that is too daunting for a beginner. I would recommend finding an old Shop Vac to practice with. The motor is very simple and basic, easy to get to, and they are always guaranteed to have bad bearings or a horribly worn out motor in need of an overhaul. |
Post# 434738 , Reply# 6   11/9/2020 at 01:15 (1,236 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)   |   | |
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Post# 434774 , Reply# 9   11/9/2020 at 22:20 (1,235 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)   |   | |
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toli - You'd be right for most things except motors with sleeve bearings - especially old ones. Cuz let's be honest, nobody ever oils them. So I would always take them apart if for not other reason than to make sure they are plenty oiled. And then you gotta remember, most of those are sintered bronze bearings, and if they've been run (truly) dry, no amount of oiling will make them take oil again. They need to be forcefully oiled. Which, you know, most people aren't gonna do.
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Post# 434777 , Reply# 10   11/9/2020 at 23:57 (1,235 days old) by kirbyklekter (Concord,Ca.)   |   | |
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Is the advantage of sintered bronze bearings because they require less maintenance? Are they still oiled the same as if they weren't infused with oil? Billy |
Post# 434790 , Reply# 12   11/10/2020 at 15:30 (1,234 days old) by kirbyklekter (Concord,Ca.)   |   | |
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Thanks for explaining that. Can you tell me what would be a good indicator that a bearing is a sintered bearing appearance wise.Other than a possible wick, is the metal more porous? |
Post# 434807 , Reply# 14   11/11/2020 at 01:49 (1,234 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)   |   | |
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@kirbyklekter - Kevin's explained it pretty well. Though, to be honest, I don't think I've ever seen a dry lubricated sintered bronze bearing. I know they exist, but I think for most common applications like vac motors, they're gonna be just oil lubricated ones. I dunno, maybe newer designs are moving over to dry?
Anyhow, I personally would have trouble telling a sintered bronze bearing from a solid brass bushing / bearing, by color. Especially given that they're usually dirty after being in service. If you clean it off, you can actually tell the sintered ones are, well, sintered. They have a unique textured color / appearance, as opposed to a solid brass metal, which would have a uniform color. The real giveaway is the lubrication method. A solid bearing has no way of getting oil to the spinning shaft on its own. So, it would need a method of getting oil directly to the shaft, like an oil wick or ring oiler that touches the shaft directly. Which requires a hole in the bearing. This is generally the case for very old motors, and for not so old, but heavier duty motors. For example, my Eureka model 10 (~1927) has solid bearings, thus it has holes drilled through the bearings, and a oil cup underneath each with a wick that go up through the hole to touch the shaft. Whereas a sintered bearing is effectively a metal sponge, so it has its own oil IN the metal. These will (hopefully) have an oil wick or - more commonly - felt to hold some extra oil, but that will NOT directly touch the shaft, only touch the outside of the bearing. That's the giveaway - whether the oil wick or felt touches the shaft or not. It's often the case with cheap, small C-frame motors that they have no oil felt at all. Now, I suppose some of those would hopefully be dry lubricated, but I think the reality is that they're built so cheaply, that the oil in the bearing is considered good enough for the 'lifetime' of the motor - which will be like 5 years. Anyway, as the oil is used and pulled out of the bearing, the extra oil in the felt will get capillary-action-ed into the bearing. But see, that can only work if there's still oil in the bearing. Once it's run dry, it can't take new oil on its own. Fortunately, you can put the bearing in oil, in a vacuum chamber, and suck the air out. I've forcefully re-oiled quite a few, it seems to take several hours to get the air out if they're dry. (I don't really know how effective massaging oil into one would be, then, but hey.) Anyway it's a piece of cake if you have a vacuum pump. You just set it and let it run all day. As a couple of examples, my Cadillac vacuum (1938) has a ring of felt around the bearings to hold oil, with oilers that feed those felts. The machine was WELL used and beaten up, and had bone dry bearing felts, so that was a pretty good indicator that the bearings were run dry. Sure enough, they bubbled all day in a vacuum chamber. On the other hand, one of my handheld Cadillacs (~1950s) was in great shape, and looked well cared-for. When I opened it, the oil felts were still quite wet and the shaft still had a very slight slick of oil on it. Someone actually oiled that machine, amazingly. --------- Kevin - I'm curious what chemical you use to clean a dry bearing, to prepare it to be made wet. |
Post# 434820 , Reply# 16   11/11/2020 at 12:12 (1,233 days old) by Real1shep (Walla Walla, WA)   |   | |
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he explains this better than I can! Kevin CLICK HERE TO GO TO Real1shep's LINK |