Thread Number: 40811  /  Tag: 80s/90s Vacuum Cleaners
F&G bag spillage
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Post# 433617   10/16/2020 at 20:09 by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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I use the Eureka Arm & Hammer F&G bags in my Eureka Boss upright, and I really like them. They keep odors away which is good because the bags last for quite a while.

The problem I have is when I go to change the bags, dirt always spills out. Which I don't know what is causing it, because I don't overfill the bags. I know Hoover C bottom fill bags do this but I thought with top fill tube bags it shouldn't happen.

Maybe I need to switch the cleaner on for a second to blow any remaining dust in the tube into the bag, before I change it?





Post# 433625 , Reply# 1   10/16/2020 at 21:53 by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        

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I think that's just the nature of the bag, and has happened with every F&G model I've had. Genuine bags don't make much of a difference. I think some dirt gets stuck near the crease where you roll up the spring belt to keep the fill tube in place. That's a good idea though to run it for a few seconds before you remove the bag. Maybe that will help.

Post# 433653 , Reply# 2   10/17/2020 at 11:05 by dysonman1 (Rolla, MO)        

dysonman1's profile picture
Turn the vacuum upside down before you unroll the spring bag keeper. That way the dirt will fall into the bag tube and not on your floors.

Post# 433655 , Reply# 3   10/17/2020 at 13:38 by human (Pines of Carolina)        
Interesting suggestions...

human's profile picture
I appreciate these suggestions. I recently up-fitted my Sanitaire SC686 with an F&G filter bag system and I'm getting close to needing to replace the paper bag for the first time. It's good to know what to expect and how to handle it. Thanks!

Post# 433660 , Reply# 4   10/17/2020 at 16:33 by detroitdirtbag (Bottom of the Bag)        

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I roll the spring hold down all the way out to the end, if not between fills up with dirt.

Post# 433667 , Reply# 5   10/17/2020 at 18:39 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I always turn off an upright before moving the handle up to the stored position. If you move up the handle to the stored position first and then turn off the motor, the throat of the F&G bag gets squished and does not provide enough room for those last bits of dirt to make it to the top of the paper tube. This is especially so if the bag is quite full at the bottom and the airflow is really restricted.

Post# 433672 , Reply# 6   10/17/2020 at 20:14 by Jo (Dallas,TX)        
Messy bag change

These cleaners were always prone to these messy bag changes. Just the nature of it. Some dirt always gets in the tube Around the throat of the bag.

Post# 433681 , Reply# 7   10/17/2020 at 22:14 by detroitdirtbag (Bottom of the Bag)        

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So the eureka takes a F or aG bag?

Post# 433682 , Reply# 8   10/17/2020 at 22:27 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
No

lesinutah's profile picture
It takes FA&G bags. F is a kirby bag. The G i believe is model a specific. Eureka bags for eureka/sanitaire vacuums. Vacuums like hoover convertible and eureka use or can use f&g bags. Hoover had a type c for some hoovers.
Royal until early 90s used type bags which are exact same as an F&G bag.


Post# 433718 , Reply# 9   10/18/2020 at 10:25 by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

ultralux88's profile picture
Turning the machine upside down, like Tom said, is how I handle it. You can also try and make sure that all the dirt falls onto the floor rather than into the outer bag, then vacuum it up when the new bag is in.

Post# 433721 , Reply# 10   10/18/2020 at 11:02 by human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
@Eurekaprince: The basic design of my Sanitaire makes your suggestion very practical. The toe-operated power switch is almost inaccessible when the handle is in the upright, stored position. There's eally almost no othe way to do it.

Post# 433727 , Reply# 11   10/18/2020 at 12:40 by fan-of-fans (USA)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
Thanks for all the tips. I hadn't thought about the idea that dirt gets between the plastic bellows and paper bag. That makes sense, as the dirt falls out when I roll the spring down to remove the bag. Unfortunately it does often get into the bottom of the outer bag which is annoying.

I will start inverting the vacuum before I change it, and switch off before putting the handle up, but I think I usually did the latter already - hard to recall!


Post# 433731 , Reply# 12   10/18/2020 at 14:14 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Of course, the other major mistake some users make is installing Eureka's F&G bag incorrectly: always make sure the paper throat is facing the handle and the main part of the bag is facing the outer bag's zipper - there should be a graphic on the paper bag itself which will remind you how to do it. This configuration allows dirt to more freely be blown to the top of the bag where it can fall out of the way of the airstream.

Post# 433733 , Reply# 13   10/18/2020 at 14:51 by Vinvac (Dubuque IA)        

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I have replaced all of mine with the ST bags and adapter.


www.hescoinc.com/sanitair...






CLICK HERE TO GO TO Vinvac's LINK


Post# 433734 , Reply# 14   10/18/2020 at 14:53 by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

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That is the ultimate solution, makes for an easier bag change and more commonly available HEPA bags that fit it.

Post# 433740 , Reply# 15   10/18/2020 at 17:47 by detroitdirtbag (Bottom of the Bag)        

detroitdirtbag's profile picture
I change the dirtbag outside, take my air take outside, blow it out good.

Post# 433855 , Reply# 16   10/20/2020 at 12:39 by rivstg1 (colorado springs)        
Vinvac

rivstg1's profile picture
@vinvac how are you using what seems to be a top fill bag ( the link you provided) to replace a bottom fill (the tubing) F&G bag? what am I missing?


Post# 433856 , Reply# 17   10/20/2020 at 12:51 by KestinFox (Renton/Washington)        
Convert to Kirby bags!

kestinfox's profile picture
I used to use F&G bags on my Eurekas, but I converted all my machines to use the Kirby bag system after I got tired of fiddling with the spring and having that little bit of dirt stuck in the tube come out. It's not a bad system, but I'd prefer to not have any spillage at all, so now I use the Kirby HEPA bags. Even on the Royals!

Post# 433861 , Reply# 18   10/20/2020 at 15:43 by human (Pines of Carolina)        
F&G system...

human's profile picture
@rivstg1: The F&G system is sort of a hybrid between top- and bottom-fill. The connection for the bag is at the bottom but the bags themselves have a built-in fill tube (or snorkel, as I call it) that brings the dirt into the bag at the top. This is is somewhat problematic because dirt invariably gets trapped in the snorkel. I had this happen when I changed out my Sanitaire's F&G bag Sunday. The solution Vinvac is suggesting adds an adapter, essentially an extension tube so that one can use true top fill bags. KestinFox's suggestion apparently accomplishes the same thing but with Kirby bags.

@KestinFox: Can you post pictures of your Kirby setup? I've got a spare Kirby fill tube and bag connector but the tube is round and the connector on the Sanitaire is oval. I'm not sure how to bridge that difference. Does the Kirby fill tube flex enough to fit over the F&G connector? Does the spring band hold it in place or would one need something like a zip tie or radiator hose clamp? I do hope there is a more elegant solution than duct tape.


Post# 433872 , Reply# 19   10/20/2020 at 18:43 by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

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@rivstg1: The key to the bags he's using is in the second link. Its a tube that attaches to the typical F&G tube, has a rubber thing at the bottom that, with the bag spring, seals on the tube, and then allows you attach the top fill bag.

Post# 433899 , Reply# 20   10/21/2020 at 13:29 by KestinFox (Renton/Washington)        
Absolutely!

kestinfox's profile picture
@human, I can definitely post pictures of my setup! Once I get home, I'll take a few and post them.
It's fairly simple, I use two zip ties to secure the fill tube around the F&G nozzle, one at the top of the nozzle and one at the bottom to minimize leakage and to make sure there's a really good seal. It looks pretty good, too. Though I am using the non-crushproof fill tube, it would probably work with the crushproof fill tube, but you'd have to make extra sure the zip ties are tight.
You can use the bag spring for a little extra seal, but with the two zip ties it's not really needed. I just hang on to them in case I ever want to convert back, like if I'm giving a vacuum to someone who insists on the F&G bags.
I've linked the fill tube I use from eBay, it's definitely flexible enough to fit the F&G nozzle.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO KestinFox's LINK on eBay


Post# 433953 , Reply# 21   10/22/2020 at 10:42 by human (Pines of Carolina)        
I've got all the pieces...

human's profile picture
Yes, that's the fill tube I've got, along with a head that's for a Heritage II and a whole mess of 11-inch zip ties. I can see this upgrade in my Sanitaire's future, once I deplete my present supply of F&G bags.

Post# 434004 , Reply# 22   10/23/2020 at 07:27 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Iíve never really had a big problem with lots of spillage when changing a Eureka F&G dust bag, and Iíve been changing these bags in our familyís Eurekas for over 40 years.

Here is my simple procedure:

1. Unzip the outer bag
2. Bring down the cleanerís handle to the middle setting (ďoperatingĒ position)
3. Pull out the filled paper bag and let it lie flat on the carpet - the paper throat is now lying flat on top of the bag
4. Turn down the plastic neck with the coil spring so that it is completely out of the outer bag - almost horizontal to the floor like the rest of the paper bag
5. Roll the metal coil spring sideways to release the paper throat and voila - any dirt remnants that were at the bottom of the paper throat stay inside the throat or are deposited on the top of the filled bag
6. Fold the used bag in two to secure all dirt and dump in garbage.

The trick really is to do this with the handle in the operating position so you can easily pull out the plastic neck from the bottom of the bag so dirt remnants end up outside the outer bag.

Reverse the procedure to install a new bag.


Post# 434088 , Reply# 23   10/24/2020 at 00:31 by kirbyklekter (Concord,Ca.)        
ST or F&G Can't convert to either

I have the SC888 Sanitaire and it appears that this model was designed specifically as a dump bag only machine. The cloth bag has no baffles, it merely hooks on to a metal peg with a clamp that you twist to tighten.

There is no provision to put a baffle on as the Eurekas and my Blueline Sanitaire have, the two screw holes where the baffle is attached. I guess this "quick release" bag system is handy for the "Janitor on the go" but it's a dust blowing mess to me.

Other than just buying a new chassis for a model that came with a paper bag system from around the same era,do you know of any other way to go about making the switch to ST? I believe the bottom chassis is inter changeable with many Eurekas/Sanitaires. As it is now, I would have to drill screw holes in the back to attach baffle and a different outer bag that uses a baffle. Any ideas?


Post# 434105 , Reply# 24   10/24/2020 at 10:31 by human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
On a whim last spring, I bought a dump bag to F&G conversion kit for my Sanitaire SC686. It uses the exact same clamp mounting system as the dump bag so it was quick and easy up-fitótotally plug-and-playóno drilling or screwing required. The elegant simplicity of these machines is absolutely amazing. It makes them a joy to work on. Aside from the bag change annoyances described in this thread, it works great and whatever mess results is easily vacuumed back up once the new bag is in place. As mentioned in my previous response above, I'm considering converting it to use Kirby bags once I run through the remaining ten F&G bags I have on hand.

Post# 434108 , Reply# 25   10/24/2020 at 10:51 by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

ultralux88's profile picture
You can buy a new outer bag that takes paper bags and connects to that latch on bag connector.

Post# 434111 , Reply# 26   10/24/2020 at 11:58 by human (Pines of Carolina)        
Outer bag kit...

human's profile picture
Ultralux88 wrote:
You can buy a new outer bag that takes paper bags and connects to that latch on bag connector.

I reply:
That's exactly what I have. I stumbled across it while looking for parts to repair an Electrolux Diplomat LX canister that I'd recently rescued from beside a dumpster. It was a nice value at $26 shipped, especially since the package also included a dozen F&G bags and two belts. It's also cool that I can switch back to the dump bag (although I can't imagine a reason why I'd ever want to) in about a minute's time.


Post# 434130 , Reply# 27   10/24/2020 at 15:04 by KestinFox (Renton/Washington)        
Finally, pictures!

kestinfox's profile picture
@human, here are the pictures of my setup I promised earlier! Took a bit longer to get around to it than I thought I was going to, but here it is.
Like I said further up, I just put two zip ties at the top and bottom of the F&G fill nozzle, just after or behind the groove at the top and the start of the flex at the bottom. Iím pointing to the zip ties in place in the second pic.
The third pic is the solution I came up with for supporting the fill tube at the top. Itís just a loose zip tie around the wooden bar for the cloth bag looped into the hook at the top of the Kirby fill tube adapter.
Hope this helps!


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size
Post# 434134 , Reply# 28   10/24/2020 at 17:28 by kirbyklekter (Concord,Ca.)        
Sounds like a winner

If I just get a zippered outer bag like the ones that come on the Sanitaire, made for the paper bag, I can either use that with F&G bags or convert to ST set up. I didn't realize that the outer bag had the clip on the bottom as mine does. That's where I was getting confused about the mounting at the bottom.

The dump bag that's on mine has to be dumped from the top after opening up the bag at top, like the older Kirby's, with no zipper. I'm thinking this dump bag that was on my SC888 was from an older Sanitaire made when paper bags weren't offered for the Sanitaire line. This model has the wide wheels all around and you can change the fan from the bottom without removing the motor from the top, there's a clear cover over the fan that comes off easy ti check or replace the fan.

I've got the Heritage II bag and emptor that I bought to upgrade a classic ICR. I could borrow the innards from that and see if I like the difference in performance on the Sanitaire and go from there.

Thanks for sharing your ideas and advice.It will be nice to have a bagged or hepa bagged Sanitaire that won't belch dust out the bottom if I were to bump the bag against a wall or furniture while vacuuming. Frankenaire enters the 21st Century!





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