Thread Number: 40434  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Any experience/knowledge on Allegro central vacuums?
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Post# 429310   7/31/2020 at 02:55 (317 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        

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I've been considering installing a central vac when I finally purchase a home. The one unit that's really caught my eye is the Allegro Zenith because it uses an 8.4" motor, it's amperage draw isn't extreme, it's specs are good, it appears to be quiet and I often see it go on sale and it gets as low as like $600 at times. I figured a unit with this type of power should allow me to see exactly what a good central vac is capable of. Granted it's not going to have the flow of a parallel dual motor or the lift of a series dual motor.

The problem is It's a brand I know so little about and that makes me a little wary of it. I often see talk of certain brands like MD or vacuflo here but Allegro is one I couldn't find any information on by performing a search.

So, do any of you have experiences with this brand? Are they decent?


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Post# 429333 , Reply# 1   7/31/2020 at 19:40 (316 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
suggestion for central vacuum unit

I would avoid the Allegro units because, unless I missed something, they are bagless, that will be a mess to empty out. The unit I would suggest you look at is the Drainvac Viper. I have it in my collection and it's probably the most powerful single motor unit you can get, it has 144 CFM and 151 water lift, and it's quiet enough that you can have a conversation while standing next to it.
Mike


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Post# 429335 , Reply# 2   7/31/2020 at 19:55 (316 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
I'm aware

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But most of these inverted filter models are easily converted to bags. I have previously had a drainvac but it had a flow through motor in it, it had fantastic power and was super quiet but I just don't think a flow through belongs in a central vac. It seems like some, maybe most, of drainvac's models currently use a tangential bypass but I guess I'm just a bit leery.

Post# 429343 , Reply# 3   7/31/2020 at 23:19 (316 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Specs

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On the vacuum seem quite powerful. Its a little expensive from what I've seen. Prolux aka great vacs has a few good quality units at good prices. The motor on the one your asking about is one of the most powerful I've seen.
I'm not well versed with the insurance and outs of central vacs. I'd want a unit 6 hose locations 3 upstairs and 3 down the stairs about 4000 sqft and maybe a small cheap central or built in vacuum for the garage.
I've researched old filtex units and if I could find one I'd fix it up and use it. I'd want hoses to store in the wall. I'd want all outlets to have about 25 foot hoses. I like the idea of using a regular outlet for power heads. I just think it would be better to install with the wall unit.
What are you looking for your unit to do for you. You do realize 165 CFM is crazy amount of power.
Les


Post# 429348 , Reply# 4   7/31/2020 at 23:33 (316 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

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I would've imagined they'd design the thing to give you the option of using bags.

Post# 429351 , Reply# 5   7/31/2020 at 23:40 (316 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Convert

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I'm guessing it's pretty easy to convert.
Les


Post# 429354 , Reply# 6   8/1/2020 at 05:38 (316 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
what i'm looking for

blackheart's profile picture
TBH my main purpose here is to examine an installed central vacuum for myself. While some have touted them as being superior to any portable machine my experiences with them have shown that to be false (so far) at least in terms of airflow.

The Strongest central vacuum i've experienced has been a Drainvac which to this day I still have no idea what model this was. While the tank had a viper sticker on it the the name plate said like something 1005 and at the end of a 1 3/8 hanmi hose directly connected to it it had pulled a baird 7.5 which is about 100 cfm putting it in the same league as many upper end machines but not surpassing some like the lux platinum, Patriot P3 ETC.

I've also had several other centrals
Broan ??? (cyclonic with a foam filter using a 115334 motor) 3.5/10 baird reading
Broan CV-40? (Dual motor in series one peripheral followed by a tangential) 5.5/10
Beam 2100 (inverted filter 3 stage motor) 3.5/10
MD Silentmaster S4 (bagged, 2 stage peripheral bypass) 4.5/10
Drainvac ??? (bagged 2 stage Domel flow through motor 7.5/10)

I don't know if it's worth noting but the two broans and the drainvac were tested with the hanmi and the others with a 1 3/8 plastiflex.

I figured this allegro unit I have in mind doesn't draw huge amounts of current so installation shouldn't be too much of a hassle in regards to electrical setup, it also has a lot of power to it and this for me will be a kind of defining performance not every who has a central vacuum purchases the TOL dual motor models but this is definitely on the upper end for a single motor. It's also not per the specs not super loud which is great. It's also not as expensive as other 8.4" motor models at least when it goes on sale. The only flaw as it's been pointed out is the fact that it's a bagless unit but i've always had the intent to use bags.


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Post# 429356 , Reply# 7   8/1/2020 at 08:20 (316 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
power, motors and converting to bags

Most central vacuum units are definitely more powerful than portable vacuums, they would have to be in order to move the air through pipes.
There is some debate over whether bypass motors are actually better than flow through motors, the Domel motors in the Drainvac units are very good, I have the Viper and the Powerhouse, they both use flow through motors and I've had no problem at all with them so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
You could probably convert the Allegro to use a bag if you could fit some kind of adapter on to the place inside the unit where the air comes out of the in-take, I know several of the beam units could be converted. Still, the Drainvac model is a hybrid so you could use bags right out of the box. Certainly you need to purchase what will work best for you but I think the Drainvac offers several advantages over the Allegro.
Mike


Post# 429357 , Reply# 8   8/1/2020 at 08:42 (316 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        

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Mike I'm not trying to be dismissive of your thoughts but I do disagree. As many collectors agree it's airflow and agitation that matter most when it comes to cleaning carpeting.
While central vacuums often have higher suction power It's been my experience that they have lower airflow, and just keep in mind that when i've measured the units i've had, that the hose has been directly connected to the unit. If i recall correctly your metric for power testing is connecting it to a turbine tool to hear the pitch of the tool. Turbine tools, especially those with narrow air channels, favor high suction machines. Your method is more about the waterlift and not really about the flow.
There is the debate of flow through vs bypass. Here's my thoughts on that. Flow throughs, again in my experience, seem to be more efficient they create more flow/lift for the amount of power used.

But in a system like a central vac in which has such a long airpath and lets say my drainvac was indeed a viper then it's airflow spec would be 144 CFM and just using a 30' 1 3/8 electric hose that airflow dropped to about 100 it's only passing about 69% of the motor's maximum airflow through it, an installed unit in theory should get a little less though a smooth 2" airpath due to the piping should not provide too much resistance and since central vac motors are typically both high rpm and consuming high amount of electricity it stands to reason that it's going to produce a lot of heat. Since flow throughs are dependent on air passing through the entire system to cool it's motor i just don't think they can keep themselves as cool as something with a dedicated fan. In general we don't see flow throughs in the higher end units take MD for example The Modern Day and Silent Master lines both utilize bypass designs while the lower lines like the flow master and airmaster (except for one model) use flow throughs.

Of course as the bag or filter system fills up in a flow through model that's even less air for the motor to cool itself granted the hepa bags of today really help them retain their power. I just think that if longevity is a concern that a bypass should be used. While people like us take care of our machines the average user certainly does not and I just feel that the bypass designs can take a little more abuse.


Post# 429395 , Reply# 9   8/2/2020 at 08:52 (315 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
bypass verses flow through

The Canavac web site has some interesting information on this topic. It does seem that flow through motors may provide more power but the bypass motors will last longer. Supposedly the Domel flow through motors in the Drainvac units are designed to last 25 to 30 years, I'm not sure if that will actually happen. I do have some central vacuum units in my collection that use bypass motors, you can usually tell a bypass motor from a flow through by the sound. The canavac web site article has the view that many manufacturers are using the flow through motors because they are cheaper and provide just as much power, if not more.
Mike


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Post# 429399 , Reply# 10   8/2/2020 at 10:21 (314 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Yup

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I think I've read that article at some point. But yes the bypass ones are usually louder, now this is just some speculation on my end, but i believe they are louder because the cooling air stream isn't insulated for sound, usually, the cooling fan that is on there are more meant to move air rather than create pressure so it's best to not impede that air stream. A flow through can last a while, no doubt, but with the 8.4" motor in the Allegro unit I'd be getting a something that has a lot of power while having the longer lifespan of a tangential bypass

Post# 429419 , Reply# 11   8/2/2020 at 17:30 (314 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
8.4 motor

I wonder if the Allegro unit is using the same 8.4 motor as the Vacumaid SR800, if so, it's a good motor, I have the vacumaid unit and the motor isn't that loud, especially if you put a muffler on it. The bypass motors are a bit louder, and they are lower pitch, probably because they are larger than flow through motors. The really loud bypass motor is the 6.6 diameter one, I have a unit that uses that motor and it's unbareable without a muffler.
Mike


Post# 429778 , Reply# 12   8/10/2020 at 16:40 (306 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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Another brand you could also look into is called OVO like the 700AW model for example, also assembled in Canada like Allegro. Although they use a Thru-Flow motor. But the 700AW is quieter by about 4 dB compare to the MU7000. The permanent filter can be machine washed. And they're like $400.

myovo.net/...


Post# 429809 , Reply# 13   8/11/2020 at 16:24 (305 days old) by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

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The MD M715h has the 8.4 inch motor as well, and I think a much better bag arrangement and better built can. Or the VacuFlo DB8000 is a bottom empty unit with that motor which I also feel is good. Iíve installed two of the M715hs, one in a new install and one as a replacement for an Electrolux. Both of them have insane suction, and are in almost every way, as impressive as my dual motor SilentMaster S5!

Post# 442711 , Reply# 14   6/7/2021 at 19:31 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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Just had a Allegro CHAMPION installed in my aunt's brand new constructed home. Definitely more powerful than her old Beam Serenity 2100 from her previous house.

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Post# 442712 , Reply# 15   6/7/2021 at 19:42 by luxflairguy (Wilmington, NC)        

Alex! Can't say I'm impressed with the install! You are going to go with the flex line? And why does the hard pipe come from the floor? A very poor install to a pro! Unimpressed! Greg

Post# 442715 , Reply# 16   6/7/2021 at 21:35 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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Hi there Greg. While I do appreciate your concern, I didn't however find your comment appreciative. Personally, I would've worded your reply more differently like just only asking your two questions and I would've gladly answered them back to you on here. Since this thread is about power units and not installation, I thought that your post was a bit out of line. If you're still interested in discussing more about this system, I would be more than happy to talk about it and show pictures elsewhere.

Post# 442723 , Reply# 17   6/8/2021 at 04:19 by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
oh.

blackheart's profile picture
Looks to be part of the quiet series based off the coloring of it. Looking at it's specs it's a 3 stage motor with 124 CFM of airflow and 141" of suction.

I had one of those 2100 beams too I wasn't impressed with it's airfow, it too had a 3 stage motor. It's motor ratings were 94 cfm and 139".


The main reason i'm so interested in this brand is they have both an 8.4" motor in a quiet machine with the MUA75 Model.


Post# 442740 , Reply# 18   6/8/2021 at 13:49 by luxflairguy (Wilmington, NC)        

Alex! Are you proud Of the install? I wouldn't be and I expressed my opinion. So let's leave it at that! Greg

Post# 442793 , Reply# 19   6/9/2021 at 22:35 by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        
Greg Bushman!

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Who are you to come on here and criticize the central vac installation a member had in his aunt's home? It's really NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! It's not your home or any of your relative's homes, and it's not your money being spent on the unit and the installation, so why should you care anyways, let alone leave a negative, nasty, mean spirited comment TWICE about it?! Nobody asked for your opinion, so maybe you should have kept your big mouth shut!

Alex made a good point in his reply to you - this thread was about individual central vac units, NOT about installation techniques or to criticize the job done in anyone's home. So your comment about the installation of his aunt's unit was uncalled for and unnecessary. IF you had something to say about your opinion of the quality of the central vac unit, that would be another matter entirely and would have been acceptable.

It seems to me that lately, whenever someone is trying to be negative or start a public fight, YOU are usually involved in it somehow! From now on, watch what you post. I for one don't enjoy seeing your negative, toxic attitude and your posts attacking other members. You should be ashamed of your conduct and attitude on here, especially since you will be 67 years old this year and should know better. Pretty sad when even a 44 yr old like myself who's 23 yrs younger than you knows how to conduct themselves better on a public forum. If all you can do with your time is come on and bully other members with negative comments, do all of us a favor - go under the nearest rock and stay there!

Rob


Post# 442821 , Reply# 20   6/10/2021 at 20:38 by luxflairguy (Wilmington, NC)        

YOU ARE BLOCKED ROB!




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