Thread Number: 39836  /  Tag: 50s/60s/70s Vacuum Cleaners
Hoover Convertible Brush Seating Stone
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Post# 422893   4/6/2020 at 19:23 (1,452 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        

This is a follow-up from an earlier thread. Has anyone had success using a brush seating stone on a Hoover Convertible motor?

Post# 422895 , Reply# 1   4/6/2020 at 19:40 (1,452 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hmm

lesinutah's profile picture
You mean using a commuter stone to help seat the carbon brushes.
I'll let you in on a secret on what I do. I completely remove the armature. I get a drill with an open chuck. I put armature in the drill. I tighten the armature so it rotates as if it was in the vacuum. I use the commuter stone I then make sure there is no excess dust from the stone. I then rotate it and make sure the armature blades are all straight.
I've done a Hoover 913 motor but not a convertible. I've done this on lamb motors from late 20's and newer.
No I haven't but you now know how I do it and a vacuum shop owner who owns a chain of 4 stores does it.
Les


Post# 422898 , Reply# 2   4/6/2020 at 19:51 (1,452 days old) by vacuumlad1650 (Wauponsee, IL)        

vacuumlad1650's profile picture
What Les described is how I've done mine for years

Post# 422899 , Reply# 3   4/6/2020 at 20:01 (1,452 days old) by bnsd60m9200 (Akron OH)        

bnsd60m9200's profile picture
are you looking to actually seat the carbons? or just polish the commutator as stated above?


Post# 422908 , Reply# 4   4/6/2020 at 21:34 (1,452 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
I use Les' method but with sandpaper, the grit depends on how torn up the commutator is. If it's in good shape, a scotch brite pad is plenty. If it's really torn up, I suppose a stone might be better, or a flat block wrapped in the sandpaper. The flat block will keep the surface of the commutator flat. If you have new brushes or brushes that are worn wrong, I would wrap the commutator in sandpaper (maybe 150 grit), with the sand facing out. Then use it to sand its curved shape into the brushes. Just hold the brushes at 90 degrees. They need not be perfect, they will wear in as the motor is used.

This is kind of the lazy man's method but it works.


Post# 422913 , Reply# 5   4/6/2020 at 21:54 (1,452 days old) by vacman1961 (North Babylon, New York)        

When I had my vacuum store I took an old top bearing plate and drilled a large hole in it, you remove the motors bearing plate and cooling fan, install the drilled bearing plate, turn on the motor and chalk the motor, you need to do it this way to both clean the armature and it gets the proper curve in the carbon brushes. After you seat the brushes, remove drilled bearing plate, blow out any dust residue, reinstall the cooling fan and bearing plate, Make sure this is done with the belt off the motor pulley.

Post# 422963 , Reply# 6   4/7/2020 at 21:56 (1,451 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        

So far, I have just polished the commutator itself, per Lesinutah's method, but with sand paper (400 grit emery). The motor has new carbon brushes. Currently it does not run well; lots of sparks, runs slow, and sounds raspy.

Another user suggested using a stone to seat the brushes, but that it is particularly difficult on a convertible. That is what I would like some help with.


Post# 422967 , Reply# 7   4/7/2020 at 22:20 (1,451 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Link

lesinutah's profile picture
This will help you.
Les


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lesinutah's LINK


Post# 422968 , Reply# 8   4/7/2020 at 22:22 (1,451 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Try my advice to shape the brushes. Technically, you don't need to take the motor apart. Stick a slice of sandpaper (~150 grit) between the commutator and the brush, sand facing the brush. Get something to push the brush into the sandpaper (the springs are likely not strong enough), and slide the paper back and forth over the commutator, to shape the brush to its curvature. Also ensure that the spaces between the commutator's contacts are clean, assuming there is space between them - some are filled with epoxy or whatever.

Post# 422973 , Reply# 9   4/7/2020 at 22:38 (1,451 days old) by bnsd60m9200 (Akron OH)        

bnsd60m9200's profile picture
les, a convertible motor CANT be seated like that. the motors arent designed that way.

U4089, run the machine with the belt ON for 10-20 mins on the highest height setting NOT on carpet. that is what is recommended by people i know who repair these machines for a living. hoover didnt think through very well about seating carbons in thier uprights. there really is no way to seat them aside from a long duration static load test to get the carbons to seat on thier own


Post# 423019 , Reply# 10   4/8/2020 at 17:24 (1,450 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        

@MadMan:
I did already try your method; it helped slightly, but the Hoover brushes come stock with ridges, far from that smooth, curved edge characteristic of well-seated brushes.

My machine definitely needs a new top bearing so I think I will try vacman1961's method.

@Lesinutah:
In the thread you shared the link to, eurekastar warned of a hazard, saying "Be [careful] not to touch [the lead wires]. You might be in for the shock of your life!" I'm not sure I understand what he is referring to.


Post# 423025 , Reply# 11   4/8/2020 at 19:10 (1,450 days old) by vacman1961 (North Babylon, New York)        

It definitely works, I have been in the vacuum business for over 40 years, we have saved many convertible motors.


Post# 423028 , Reply# 12   4/8/2020 at 19:55 (1,450 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Uh no

lesinutah's profile picture
It a thread on how to seat carbon brushes.
The motor can be done where the fan goes put the armature on drill.
I only mention because when turned on RPMs are high and I don't like the zap a carbon brush inflicts. It hurts like a mother. Don't ask it hurts.
If you need a bearing replaced on bottom of the armature fix the bearing before doing anything. The bearing could cause armature to not rotate in perfect motion. The bearing could be the reason nothing is working.
Les


Post# 423341 , Reply# 13   4/13/2020 at 08:48 (1,445 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        

Attached please find a link to the thread to which this is a follow-up. In it I describe the original problem I had with the unit that, upon recommendation of other members, prompted me to replace the brushes.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO hooverU4089's LINK


Post# 423356 , Reply# 14   4/13/2020 at 12:14 (1,445 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        

Listen to the motor of this Convertible in the video. Notice the sort of raspy sound it has. My machine sounds somewhat like this, but worse.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO hooverU4089's LINK


Post# 423362 , Reply# 15   4/13/2020 at 14:06 (1,445 days old) by vacuumlad1650 (Wauponsee, IL)        

vacuumlad1650's profile picture
That's my 33. It was just rebuilt before the video was taken.
Add that to my using a very low quality microphone on a cheap cell phone and you get the raspy sound. The old girl purrs like a kitten in person.
A 40 year Hoover dealer taught me how to rebuild a convertible using that machine.


Post# 423364 , Reply# 16   4/13/2020 at 14:33 (1,445 days old) by vacuumlad1650 (Wauponsee, IL)        

vacuumlad1650's profile picture
The way EVERY old Hoover dealer taught me to seat the carbon brushes is to run the machine with new carbons in it for 15 minutes with no belt atached, then raise the front of the sweeper off the floor so the agitator will not contact the floor and run another 15 with the belt on.


Post# 423389 , Reply# 17   4/13/2020 at 18:17 (1,445 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        
Success!!

Here is what I did:

1) Took motor apart, vacuumed it out and wiped it clean
2) Cleaned, dried, and re-lubricated top bearing w/ 3-in-1 blue
3) Put commutator in drill; used fine garnet sandpaper to refinish bearing shaft and armature
4) Took strip of same sandpaper, wrapped around commutator and seated brushes
5) Cleaned motor of all carbon deposits
6) Greased lower bearing

Thanks everyone for all your help; it now purrs!

Now all I need is a light bulb. I recall an earlier thread regarding LED replacement bulbs; I know some members don't care for the look of the light, but what wattage, etc., do I need for this machine (719)?


Post# 423397 , Reply# 18   4/13/2020 at 19:30 (1,445 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Nice work! I believe it takes a normal small appliance / vacuum / sewing machine light bulb. 2 contact bayonet base bulb? Pretty sure any old thing will work. Look on ebay or amazon for either 'vacuum light bulb led' or 'sewing machine light bulb led.' Just ensure the base looks the same as yours, and that they say 120v not like 12v.

Post# 423407 , Reply# 19   4/13/2020 at 20:23 (1,445 days old) by vacuumlad1650 (Wauponsee, IL)        

vacuumlad1650's profile picture
I have been thrilled with the LED bulbs for them, other than the face that if your bulb fixture is not perfectly shaped the bulb will not fit without some force

Post# 423410 , Reply# 20   4/13/2020 at 20:29 (1,445 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Careful

lesinutah's profile picture
The shell of LED are good but to much force fractures the silicone inside making bulb useless.
Nice job on the vacuum. It gets frustrating at times when you can't get vacuums to work good. You have paitence and knowledge both essential when fixing vacuums.
Les


Post# 423448 , Reply# 21   4/14/2020 at 06:06 (1,445 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        

@Lesinutah:
That's what's nice about old Hoovers, they are very easy to learn on and they are built so tough that they can survive several screw-up jobs!

I definitely heard some members say that they had bad luck with certain versions of the LED bulb in Convertibles. There seem to be lots of options. I found one that was very highly rated on Amazon which many used for Singer sewing machines. What's been interesting on my 719 is that the 15-watt incandescents never worked; always flickered and burned out after 1-2 weeks. The 25-watt bulbs, however, have been excellent. How might this observation narrow down my LED options?


Post# 423458 , Reply# 22   4/14/2020 at 08:40 (1,444 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
That bulb

lesinutah's profile picture
I'm pretty sure is the exact bulb I ordered March 1st. I'll post a link but it's likely the one you are looking at. This bulb is the highest build quality I've seen.
It's the daylight 6000k color.
Les


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lesinutah's LINK


Post# 423481 , Reply# 23   4/14/2020 at 14:37 (1,444 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Not sure about the 15w vs 25w. I don't think this would really translate to LED bulbs. However, the only thing I can fathom is that the 15W bulbs have a more delicate filament, and your machine vibrates it to death. I *think* that lower wattage bulbs have longer filaments (= more resistance = lower wattage), so they probably have a longer length of filament between each support, so more there to bounce around when vibrated. It's just a hypothesis, though, and it probably depends on the engineering of that particular bulb.

That being said, however, if bulbs have been vibrated to death, LED bulbs may suffer a similar fate. Depends on the particular engineering, of course. Then again, that might've been the bad bearing, right? Maybe it's not even a concern now.


Post# 423488 , Reply# 24   4/14/2020 at 14:54 (1,444 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Led

lesinutah's profile picture
In my Hoover 913 it uses this bulb. The only issues I have had with LED are 3 watt bulbs. My 913 is older than the convertible. It's a rolling 35lb Sherman tank with the old beater bar. It thumps pretty good and the bulb hasn't had issues.
It's more than I like to pay for bulbs but the quality is very good.
Les


Post# 423547 , Reply# 25   4/15/2020 at 08:15 (1,443 days old) by hooverU4089 (CT)        

@Lesinutah:
Does that manufacturer make that bulb in warm white? I saw the 3000K warm white option (v.s. 6000K daylight), but I am not sure if the electrical specs are any different.


Post# 423585 , Reply# 26   4/15/2020 at 19:41 (1,443 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
3k

lesinutah's profile picture
They only have daylight at 6k. The daylight usually is 6k. The 3k light is similar in color as regular stock bulb.
I think the daylight takes more energy to make. I assume 6k is the preferred color when I put headlights 6k seems to be the power it takes to get the color of light.
I don't know if I'd go for 3k lower wattage. I'm going to guess the fixture highest output would be 12 watts. I know 120 volts is a term people use but I've gauged bulbs via watts.
I think closer to 5 watts which would be less than half of the watts used the lights won't function correctly. They are either too much power or intermittent power where they flicker but never truly work.
Les


Post# 423590 , Reply# 27   4/15/2020 at 22:12 (1,443 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Lumens would be your real concern for lighting output. Some LEDs are more efficient that others, and some power supplies, and some colors of LED. It all depends.

Post# 423595 , Reply# 28   4/15/2020 at 22:49 (1,443 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Madman

lesinutah's profile picture
Have you noticed the 6000 is white. I bought 3 led recessed lights for out kitchen. The lumens were related to the watts.
Les


Post# 423600 , Reply# 29   4/16/2020 at 01:33 (1,443 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Les - 6000k is the color temperature. 6000k is blueish white / cold white, 3000k is yellow / warm white. It kind of sucks because very few LEDs are available in 4000k, which is actually WHITE white, not yellow or blue. Lumens is the amount of light output. And then there's CRI or Color Rendering Index, which is how true the light is to pure sunlight, which includes even amounts of every color of the rainbow, including in-betweens. LEDs have all the colors, but not the in-betweens, they may look white, but are not actually.


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