Thread Number: 39705  /  Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Help! What is happening to my Rainbow
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Post# 421383   3/10/2020 at 10:15 (1,479 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
During the past month, I've noticed this. At first I thought it was just because I didn't have it seated correctly......and it started working after a few tries. In the middle of cleaning if I needed to turn it off/back on, it would go off and on fine. So now, I'm using it again to clean and this is what happens. It's like it takes a few tries of on/off before it will actually start up. It is 14 years old and never been serviced but I've taken very good care of maintaining it. But I think it may be time for a trip to the dealer to have it cleaned/checked, even though I don't thin it needs it. The fans looks fine, hepa is fine. Just this weird startup. I think something must be going bad or coming lose. Does anyone know what this could be?

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Post# 421388 , Reply# 1   3/10/2020 at 12:30 (1,479 days old) by joshp83 (Minneapolis)        
Weird!

I've never seen mine do that. I would have suggested it was a switch problem but clearly it's trying to do something when you turn it on. Does the separator still spin freely by hand? I hope your motor isn't going. Hopefully someone else will have some experience with this issue. Good luck!

Post# 421391 , Reply# 2   3/10/2020 at 13:52 (1,479 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
yep everything looks perfect on the outside

mark40511's profile picture
seperator spins freely. Nothing is dirty. Anyway, after it started today, as I'm cleaning it shut itself off mid-cleaning and I swear I could smell something burning, not smoke.....but more like a hot wire or hot metal smell. I guess I'll just take it to dist here in Lex and have them look at it and clean the inside while they have it.

Post# 421401 , Reply# 3   3/10/2020 at 16:58 (1,479 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
14 years old would make it a Rainbow Gold E2. Just letting you it might be the board. The old circuit boards in most of the Gold E2's around here have been replaced. I should know, I've replaced them for customers. Good news, the board has been perfected and made much smaller with less capacitors, etc. The motor itself will never wear out as there are no carbon brushes. Warning, the board is about $300. All the electricity goes through the board, where it's run through capacitors to turn it to DC current which runs the stators. Except for the AC to the power nozzle. Good news is that once the board is replaced, it shouldn't fail again.

Post# 421402 , Reply# 4   3/10/2020 at 17:26 (1,479 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY)        

crazykirbydude's profile picture
There's a distributor here in Lexington?

Post# 421404 , Reply# 5   3/10/2020 at 18:11 (1,479 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
Yep it's been here a LONG time.

Post# 421409 , Reply# 6   3/10/2020 at 19:00 (1,479 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        
E2 2-Speed Motors Never Wear Out?

vaclab's profile picture
"The motor itself will never wear out as there are no carbon brushes."

Tom,

This motor has bearings which wear out/fail in a fairly predicable manner. Rainbow wants you to run these newer machines as much as possible and when the bearings go, have customers simply buy a new vacuum. The bottom bearing is a 6001 and can be had cheaply or simply rebuild it as shown in the video.

2006 Rainbow E2 Gold Teardown Cleaning And Bearing Rebuild




Please notice the nearly complete lack of grease in the bottom bearing before refurbishment. About half the time this 2006 E2 was cycled on and off, the motor exhibited an awful screech during wind down.

When something spins, there exists friction which generates heat and that causes wear on parts (or lubrication degradation).

Bill


Post# 421411 , Reply# 7   3/10/2020 at 19:08 (1,479 days old) by chris (WV)        

My e2 gold did the same thing after only having it for 5 years. It would run fine on the low speed but only run at about half on the high speed. It too had a burning smell and there was smoke

Post# 421423 , Reply# 8   3/10/2020 at 22:56 (1,479 days old) by Rexairfixer (Missouri)        

I have fixed many of those old boards for people. On the older boards, there is usually one to three thermistors on the 120 vac side. As these age, the thermistors limit the current when they heat up. Over time, I have seen these crack in half or blow themselves completely off the board.

If you are handy with a soldering iron, you can buy the thermistor from an electronics vendor for very little money and usually fix it. They sometimes do get a little pyrolytic when they fail.

The bottom bearings on these don't seem to give as much problems as what the top bearings did on the direct supported upper bearing ones. Those had a run from about 2005 to 2009. The first gen two speed used a metal upper bearing retainer, as does the last generation with the upper clamped bearing design. I have noticed that since the upper bearing was pressed into phenolic plastic on the direct support design, the upper bearing ran hot and expunged all of its grease, since it had no heat sink.


Post# 421427 , Reply# 9   3/11/2020 at 01:00 (1,478 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Thermistors, eh? Seems kind of unnecessary to me. Of course, I don't have the whole picture of the electronics on this machine. Thermistors as circuit protection, I can tell you, have a finite number of turn-ons before they go bad.

Post# 421428 , Reply# 10   3/11/2020 at 06:49 (1,478 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
I don't know the exact date my Rainbow was manufactured. I bought it NIB summer 2006 without a demo. Anyway, I'm not sure what the issue is with it, but I don't think it has anything to do with bearings. There's never been any change in the sound of it now vs day 1. I do know that screechy sound but luckily I've never had that issue.

Truthfully, I'm a little surprised I'm having any issues at all from a Rainbow that's been babied all these years (babied, but used a lot). But I guess everything needs to be serviced no matter how well it's made.



Post# 421449 , Reply# 11   3/12/2020 at 00:16 (1,477 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

huskyvacs's profile picture
" more like a hot wire or hot metal smell"

If what dysonman1 and Rexairfixer said is accurate - that might be what you are smelling is burning solder or the motherboard itself melting. Maybe the solder on the board or a capacitor has failed and its exhibiting this weird behavior. I'd have the circuit board looked at, preferably tested with a multimeter.

I just had two of my Acer computer monitors blow up on me that were made in 2005. The capacitor in the power supply on the motherboard went bad is what I am presuming. For 2 months before they totally blew - the monitors would either turn themselves on at random, or they would only turn on if unplugged, waiting 20-30 seconds, then plugging back in. They would also turn on on their own at random or from being plugged back in without even pressing the power button.



Post# 421459 , Reply# 12   3/12/2020 at 09:58 (1,477 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
All the problems Rexair had with those first circuit boards forced them to change the board's design as the board had an 8 year warranty. If you look at the board in your machine compared to the replacement board, they are very much different. Interestingly, the new boards are shipped complete with the new board holder, which will not work with your machine. The service man has to very carefully take the board holder apart without destroying it, to put the new smaller board into the old holder. I've done it so many times now, it's a piece of cake. But it sure wasn't the first time I had to do it.

Most people don't baby their machines, which is why we saw the board failure early on. Today, most of the E2 gold models have had their boards replaced and even with hard use (as most people give them) they are not returning for a second circuit board. If they will let you, you might want to actually watch as they service your cleaner.


Post# 421476 , Reply# 13   3/12/2020 at 20:30 (1,477 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
well

mark40511's profile picture
it's at the dealer. The person at the desk took it and said the person who works on them will be in later. I just hope they do a good job and don't half-ass it. You never know.

Post# 421478 , Reply# 14   3/12/2020 at 20:57 (1,477 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

huskyvacs's profile picture
I'll bet they will likely just replace the whole board and not monkey around with changing a couple bad circuits. A quick open and shut repair. I think it will be OK. But yeah that is a strange problem for sure.

Post# 421560 , Reply# 15   3/13/2020 at 19:02 (1,476 days old) by Lux_Luthor (Tennessee)        

Have they gotten back to you about what was wrong? Or did you decide to upgrade to the latest model?

Post# 421562 , Reply# 16   3/13/2020 at 19:18 (1,476 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
No

mark40511's profile picture
I've heard nothing from them. They have my #. No I'm not upgrading I still love my gold 2 speed. I mean, I think the new model is great and I'd love to have one but I really don't want to upgrade because the prices are too steep. I will update when I hear something.

Post# 421598 , Reply# 17   3/14/2020 at 10:28 (1,475 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Rainbow guy just called me

mark40511's profile picture
He said: Is this Mark? I said yes. He said it was the board needed replaced and that normally it's $300, but he said he has absolutely never seen a rainbow as clean as mine. He said since I take such good care of it he would fix it for $225. He was full of questions about how I keep it so clean. He said the fans don't even need cleaning. He said the boards on mine are new and improved that ship with the board holder "will fit my machine". He said it was the previous ones (maybe the early 2 speeds that didn't have foam insulation?) where he said they were a pain to replace because you couldn't use the board holder. He said after this repair I should have no problems.

Anyway - I asked him even though he thought the fans don't need cleaning, if he could clean them anyway (LOL) He said ok no problem. He said it was no nice to see someone respect their machine.


Post# 421602 , Reply# 18   3/14/2020 at 12:19 (1,475 days old) by chris (WV)        

I've seen the rainbows my dealer would get in for repair before they closed and it's a wonder some of them were even still running some were only a couple years old. It blows my mind that somwone would spend that kind of money on something then turn around and destroy it. Rainbow dealers get a bad rap yes there are some out there that only want a sale but then there is some out there that truly care about customer service



Post# 421604 , Reply# 19   3/14/2020 at 12:58 (1,475 days old) by Lux_Luthor (Tennessee)        

I’m glad they got back to you and it was something repairable. $225 is better than $2250 for a new one! Hopefully he can get it fixed and back to you quickly!

Awesome job taking such immaculate care of yours. I’m going to try and do the same with mine as best as I can.


Post# 421605 , Reply# 20   3/14/2020 at 13:03 (1,475 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Yep

mark40511's profile picture
blows my mind to but in a way I can sort of understand it. I think the demo's may not really touch much on the maintenance of the machine because they are trying to sell one. Even though they state in the manual to clean separator often, change water before getting too dirty....I think maybe most users think "fill with water, vacuum until done, dump the crud...done." In fact,when my grandma had her Rainbow from the 80s and we used it, that's what we did. Filled with water and I remember taking the basin out and dumping the dirt in the ditch and it was thick. I mean, we took care of it but didn't realize the water needed to be changed much more often than we were. God knows what the inside of that thing looked like. We were abusing it without realizing it. That's why I would be paranoid to buy a used one unless you KNOW it's been totally serviced inside and out. They can look so CLEAN outside but be filthy inside.

Post# 421640 , Reply# 21   3/14/2020 at 22:27 (1,475 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Clean

lesinutah's profile picture
If you keep yours clean that explains the fans. If you don't clean the seperator the buildup starts there.
The gold 2 speeds didn't have foam batting. The silvers had batting. I have replaced parts on the silver and there's 2 versions. One was pre 2009. The other board was after 2009.
I had help fixing them. I must say if you have a rainbow with no build up on the fan that's awesome. You use and maintain it like it is meant to be.
Les


Post# 421641 , Reply# 22   3/14/2020 at 22:46 (1,475 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Thanks

mark40511's profile picture
my gold 2 speed actually does have the foam insulation. I remember talking to someone on here a LONG time ago who had a slightly earlier gold 2 speed than mine and there's didn't. Additionally, my gold 2 speed doesn't have the separator wrench/brush. (LOL) Why? From my understanding, there was a brief run where they didn't include them. Mine must have been one of them. Here's a picture of the inside take a while back.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 421642 , Reply# 23   3/14/2020 at 23:04 (1,475 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Nice

lesinutah's profile picture
I see good to know. Your vac is way clean.
Les


Post# 421654 , Reply# 24   3/15/2020 at 01:04 (1,474 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Sounds like your repair guy confirmed what everyone here said was wrong.

Post# 421656 , Reply# 25   3/15/2020 at 08:42 (1,474 days old) by Rdwdcp (UK)        

Hi madman

Post# 421812 , Reply# 26   3/17/2020 at 16:48 (1,472 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Got my rainbow back

mark40511's profile picture
I also got to see the new SRX in person. Such a cool machine.
Anyway - he replaced the controller. I asked him to clean the fans since he had it but he didn't. I think he thought there was no use to clean them. He said they didn't need it. But I figured he could at least clean them since he had it apart. They charged $260 total and there is a 1 year warranty on the new controller...Hopefully it won't be needed. As soon as I got it back I wiped everything down with bleach water (just to be safe)


Post# 421820 , Reply# 27   3/17/2020 at 19:03 (1,472 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Fans

lesinutah's profile picture
If he took apart fans to clean you could bend them. Typically if you do anything to the fans there worse off than when you began.
Id leave the fans alone. Looking at part of your vacuum you showed your fans are excellent and best left alone.
Les


Post# 421843 , Reply# 28   3/18/2020 at 12:53 (1,471 days old) by Lux_Luthor (Tennessee)        

Is it working good as new now?

The Rainbow SRX was what I really wanted—maybe after I pay off my car—if I financially survive COVID19.


Post# 421845 , Reply# 29   3/18/2020 at 13:11 (1,471 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Yep

mark40511's profile picture
sounds like it always has from day one. I want the SRX too (LOL). I mean, I even wanted the E3 Black or E2 Black.....But I made it through not getting the black one......and I can make it through not getting the SRX (I think). It's just so hard to justify it when I have a perfectly nice rainbow that will probably outlast me.

I was surprised he didn't give me hell about using a generic HEPA filter. It's so hard to tell the difference I don't think he even noticed.

Have you seen the size of the HEPA filters on the SRX?? They are Massive. I wonder what a replacement cost would be for one of those?



Post# 421849 , Reply# 30   3/18/2020 at 14:29 (1,471 days old) by Lux_Luthor (Tennessee)        

I hope mine will last a long time, as it will be a good long while before I can upgrade.

I was surprised the filter on mine is as big as a car cabin filter. The new one looks like it’s twice as big, almost HVAC size. 🤣


Post# 421863 , Reply# 31   3/18/2020 at 18:37 (1,471 days old) by Juju93 (South Georgia)        

When I purchased my SRX system a few months back I ask about the life expectancy of the filter and the distributor told me that it’ll last 10 years, 7 if you have pets. Now I’m not sure how true that is but I can justify paying whatever the price is.

Post# 421869 , Reply# 32   3/18/2020 at 20:57 (1,471 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
I wouldn't be surprised if that's true

mark40511's profile picture
They are huge. I went 5 years before changing my first HEPA that came with mine. Cut into it, and it was barely dirty. Didn't even need changing.

I can't find any of those filter replacements online I was wondering what their pricing was. The current E series HEPA's can be as much as $50. I wouldn't not be surprised if these are close to $100. I also noticed they are a dark color which is odd.


Post# 421905 , Reply# 33   3/19/2020 at 18:37 (1,470 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
One thing I forgot to mention

mark40511's profile picture
Since this rainbow of mine has the updated board.......when starting it, it ramps up much faster than it did before.

Post# 421920 , Reply# 34   3/20/2020 at 02:43 (1,469 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana)        

huskyvacs's profile picture
Glad to know the correct diagnosis was given. I'm sure it runs a lot better now and probably even has stronger suction too. It sounds like the way the board failed, it was not transferring the AC line voltage to the motor properly. Kind of like when you have a cheapo crappy battery in your car and the starter can't get going to turn the engine over I guess?

That's cool he gave you a massive discount when he seen that you were someone that cared for your equipment and this problem was totally the fault of Rainbow and not the user. That does not happen every day, he sounds like a good guy. He probably didn't clean the fan because there was not enough there to be worth it to disturb the rest of the vacuum assembly or he had a lot more services to do and was pressed for time, I don't think he did it just to ignore you.

Also Chinese parts have gotten a lot better in quality - a lot of the knockoff Dyson filters, even going over with a magnifying glass you can hardly see the difference both by sight and feel. I have to use china knockoff box filters in my furnace now because the filter media size that it takes (20x20x5) is obsolete, and the manufacturer as well as 2nd party makers quit selling them, which left it open to 3rd party makers to start selling them.


Post# 421927 , Reply# 35   3/20/2020 at 11:29 (1,469 days old) by Lux_Luthor (Tennessee)        

That’s cool that it fires up quicker. I need to get mine out and go ham. I’ve not used it this week yet.

Post# 422927 , Reply# 36   4/7/2020 at 12:50 (1,451 days old) by redgeminipa (Altoona, PA)        

I just bought 2 E2 Golds, hoping to clean them up, and make at least 2 good extra machine. After tearing the first one down, thinking it only needed a switch, it won't turn on. I pulled my E2 Blue apart, trying the power and basin safety switches, hoping one of those were the problem. Nope. Dead.

When I had it apart for cleaning, I pulled the controller out of the housing. It was dusty, but not horrible. While holding (I thought) along the edges, I got shocked. I tried blowing it off as much as I could, and reassembled. Nothing.

When I tested the good switch on the other one, it does nothing in low, and keeps cutting out when trying to spool up. I didn't rip into that one, yet, but I'm afraid the board is on its way out, too.

I'd LOVE to get these both up and running, but they're not worth spending $300 each for new controllers. Luckily, I only paid $50 for both, and there are a lot of good attachments and extras with them, including a new 4 qt basin, and some other things I wanted to get for my Blue.


Post# 422932 , Reply# 37   4/7/2020 at 14:11 (1,451 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
You know you could just replace the electronic components yourself. You probably won't spend more than $5 on components. I don't know exactly what they need, but probably some thermistors, maybe a thyristor.

Post# 422970 , Reply# 38   4/7/2020 at 22:29 (1,451 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Part

lesinutah's profile picture
If you go to rainvac the part is 32.50.
I'll give you advice.
I bought a e2 type 12 rainbow for $30 cleaned it sold for $350.
I got an e2 gold for $75. I sold it for $350. I bought a platinum for $75. I sold for $850. I bought 2 silvers for $350 sold one for $600 and one for $500. I still have 2 silvers and two single speed gold's.
I'd suggest learning to fix and repair. They do sale for huge profits.
Les


Post# 422981 , Reply# 39   4/8/2020 at 05:57 (1,450 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
speaking of Rainvac

mark40511's profile picture
Is that like an online "Authorized" dealer or something?

I'm thinking not. It's a super nice website that only deals in Rainbow and sells only genuine parts.

It's true - if you can fix and repair a rainbow, you're almost sure to make a profit. Too bad I don't know how to fix crap.


Post# 422982 , Reply# 40   4/8/2020 at 07:11 (1,450 days old) by redgeminipa (Altoona, PA)        
Which part?

The only part I'm seeing from RainVac for the controller is the whole controller for almost $300. I'm not investing that kind of money into a machine that needs a couple other parts, only to sell it for barely what I have into it for parts costs alone.

Post# 423063 , Reply# 41   4/9/2020 at 03:49 (1,449 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Well if the vac is junk as it stands, you can't make it worse. Take this opportunity to try and learn how to repair electronics. :D

Post# 423066 , Reply# 42   4/9/2020 at 07:53 (1,449 days old) by redgeminipa (Altoona, PA)        

It wouldn't be too bad, if I knew what was the main cause of these problems, and where to find the replacement parts.

I've dipped my toes into fixing all types of things over the years, and this type of electronics repair hasn't been one of the things I've mastered.

I may have to wait until everyone is back up and running, and take it to an electronics repair person with proper tools and skills. It would still have to be a lot cheaper than spending $300 for a new controller. The downside is, it's still a failed design, and it will die again at some point, unless I can figure out a way to modify the Rainbow itself for better/cleaner cooling of the controller.


Post# 423072 , Reply# 43   4/9/2020 at 11:37 (1,449 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
cleaner/cooling of the controller

mark40511's profile picture
You're referring to the one speed, right?

Post# 423090 , Reply# 44   4/9/2020 at 20:36 (1,449 days old) by redgeminipa (Altoona, PA)        

No, 2-speed. The 1 speed doesn't have a controller.

Post# 423101 , Reply# 45   4/9/2020 at 23:01 (1,449 days old) by Marks_here (_._)        

marks_here's profile picture
I've used RainVac before, they were very nice making sure I was getting the correct part for the right unit. I think the closest Rainbow distributor is no longer in Mt. Juliet anymore and there might be one still in Knoxville.

Post# 423105 , Reply# 46   4/9/2020 at 23:52 (1,448 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Controller

lesinutah's profile picture
I see the controller. It's basically everything electronic for the vacuum runs through it. I thought it was small board.
I'll tell you what to do. If you know a vacuum dealer or someone who fixes them. You find a used one. If you can't it's a parts machine.
I didn't realize it was a $300 part.
You can find one I'm not sure of the cost. If you want money out of it this is it.
Les


Post# 423701 , Reply# 47   4/18/2020 at 09:16 (1,440 days old) by redgeminipa (Altoona, PA)        

In all reality, it'll be nearly impossible to find a used controller. It's the most expensive component in the entire machine, by a large margin, and it's really the only bad part that would keep someone from fixing up any other issues with one. That's where I am, with 2 of them...

Even if I found an E2 Blue dirt cheap (they're out there), it would be wiser to just fix the issues with that machine, versus swapping the controller into a Gold that's not worth as much, nor designed as well. The only possible way would be a Blue that is literally destroyed on the outside.

Finding another dirt cheap Gold will raise more concerns. Does it have an updated controller? Doubtful, meaning its days are probably numbered, no matter how well it runs when it's acquired. Anyone who knowingly paid the money for a new $300 controller won't be selling the machine for much less than that.

In the end, I have some good parts. I may keep them for fixing up future acquired machines, or sell some of the parts. I got my money's worth with some accessories I needed for my Blue, including the 4 qt basin (new), inlet cover (new), inflator/deflator tool with coil wand (new). There are 2 good separators, latches, seals and motor units, hoses, wands, power nozzles, dollies and a few other attachments. There are some other accessories for an Aquamate and others. For $50 for everything, I knew I'd be ahead, even if the machines were toast.



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