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Thread Number: 39648
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Miele S7 or U1 Parts Needed or Motor Help? |
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| Post# 420663 2/26/2020 at 13:26 (1,514 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
If anyone has parts for a Miele S7 (or U1) series vac I am in need of the part shown in the first picture. Or can I bypass the over heat protection - shame to junk the vac because the motor itself works as I swapped the part I need from a working vac and then this broken vac motor worked and red light disappeared.
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| Post# 420672 , Reply# 1 2/26/2020 at 15:37 (1,514 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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| Post# 420675 , Reply# 2 2/26/2020 at 15:44 (1,514 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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| Post# 420676 , Reply# 3 2/26/2020 at 15:47 (1,514 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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| Post# 420677 , Reply# 4 2/26/2020 at 16:06 (1,514 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 420713 , Reply# 5 2/26/2020 at 22:58 (1,514 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
Part T2050H-6T is a Thyristor
And is available for $1.67 from here:
www.mouser.com/ProductDet... It controls the speed of the motor. I'm unable to tell what the other part is on that board. If you can get clear pics, you can Google it and grab it from whomever sells it the cheapest. Bill | ||
| Post# 420715 , Reply# 6 2/27/2020 at 00:02 (1,513 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 420716 , Reply# 7 2/27/2020 at 00:04 (1,513 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 420721 , Reply# 8 2/27/2020 at 07:39 (1,513 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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| Post# 420739 , Reply# 9 2/27/2020 at 14:16 (1,513 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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@crazykirbydude Those circuit boards there's two of them in this machine are very necessary for their operation. They are not cheapening the vacuum in any way.
Motor trizact boards are used by most companies out there. The secondary board by the handle what's the userknow error codes, and allows electronic speed control. @vaclab @MadMan I would very much take caution into soldering a new part on. There is a reason then it went out usually caused by a problem with the motor itself. If you do decide to go this route you must make sure it is from the exact same brand and company that made it for Miele! The engineer these things with extremely tight tolerances getting the wrong component could cause other things to happen. | ||
| Post# 420753 , Reply# 10 2/27/2020 at 21:31 (1,513 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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@vacuumdevil, if the component part bears the same exact part number, it should be in tolerance of all the design specs of the original. I mean yeah... there could be sub-par components, but it's not the 1970s anymore, the Chinese literally make 90% of electronic components now. And it's just a thyristor (1970s technology), it's not some bleeding edge cpu or something.
Of course, matching the part number exactly *IS* essential. | ||
| Post# 420785 , Reply# 11 2/28/2020 at 12:32 (1,512 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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@MadMan The circuit boards from Miele are not made in China most of the circuit boards are made in Ukraine or Germany depending on the machine.
You don't have much experience with tight tolerances of engineering. I can think of several times when manufacturers have had the components swapped out without their knowledge and it's caused issues. This is happens not only to Miele but also to SEBO. At the end of the day this whole motor really should be changed. Trying to repai board after it was taken out by something else is generally a bad idea. I'm appalled that people vacuumland are even suggesting these Bojack repairs that simply are not going to work and cause OP to waste money and time. I know you guys think you're help. I have fixed thousands of these machines over the years it's well-documented what to change when things happen. Looking at the second picture again @chicagomike that motor is in poor condition and needs to be changed out. I would be willing to bet the machine was either used without the bag in place or has some sort of flood damage in it. | ||
| Post# 420806 , Reply# 12 2/28/2020 at 22:28 (1,512 days old) by broomvac (N/A) | ||
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
| Post# 420810 , Reply# 13 2/28/2020 at 23:23 (1,512 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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@vacuumdevil - Listen, I get that you're trying to help as well. But you need to take a step down from your high horse, buddy. I am a mechanic. I repair things for a living. And I know plenty about engineering tolerances and subpar parts. Look. I'm going to ask you very nicely: please don't patronize me on the topic of repairing machines.
Further, there's nothing 'bojack' about using an identical part to repair something. What you're suggesting - replacing the entire motor unit because one tiny part is bad - is appallingly wasteful (you're filling landfills), and not cost effective for somebody who's apparently repairing their own vacuum. Your way of thinking, to just change the whole unit, is how repairs are done to things under warranty. And the manufacturer does it that way because they do thousands of such repairs, and the 10% chance a repair (as versus a replacement) will not work, adds up to hundreds of cases that each hurt their reputation and cost them lots of money. The end user fixing ONE or TWO machines is a completely different scenario, and has to be treated as such. With an assumed 10% chance of not working, it doesn't even matter, because it's worth the gamble. Wouldn't you bet money on something with a 90% chance of winning? Those are good odds. And even IF it doesn't work, he'll just fix it again! Waste of money, you say. Less than $10 for a component part, admittedly, it may not work, or he may damage the board trying to solder it, fine. That's a gamble. It's none of our business whether he decides to gamble on that or not. But I'll tell you one thing, that motor unit is probably minimum $100, am I right? How is gambling $10 a 'waste of money' compared to spending $100 outright without even trying to save that money? I don't know about Chicagomike, but not everyone is made of money. | ||
| Post# 420830 , Reply# 14 2/29/2020 at 13:33 (1,511 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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keep it Kosher
@MadMan Sorry if you feel that I am patronizing you that is not my intent. If I was going to do that you'd hear some bronie remarks
Nobody has suggested using the proper parts. Let alone the proper components. I have years of experience and thousands of repairs that I'm referring to when I speak of this sort of stuff. I know your auto mechanic and very mechanical so the situation is even more perplexing to you. It's not a $10 Gamble it's a another $400 worth of parts that could get messed up by doing that. How many Miele s7 or U1 vacuums have you worked on? | ||
| Post# 420852 , Reply# 15 3/1/2020 at 01:49 (1,510 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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"How many Miele s7 or U1 vacuums have you worked on?"
None, but I've probably repaired more electronics and circuit boards than you have, and that's the topic we're discussing here. Also, you're still patronizing me. Seriously, what's with the condescending attitude, man? We're both here to help someone else make a repair. Check out the link, which was provided by vaclab. See the manufacturer's logo? Good, now check out the first picture of the first post in this thread. Tell me that isn't the same logo on that thyristor. An *identical* part from the *same* manufacturer is not 'bojack,' end of story. I'll agree, yeah things can go wrong. But a properly installed identical part will NOT cause a problem, period. On the other hand, an improperly installed part might. But I fail to see how that has anything to do with the problem at hand. Neither one of us is the one making the repair to this machine. And quite honestly, I feel like you're being condescending to me AND chicagomike. What you're implying is that neither me nor he is capable of repairing a circuit board. Because apparently it will cause so much damage to other parts. Right. He's already done a good job troubleshooting. I think you need to take a step back and let chicagomike decide for himself whether he's up for tackling a repair like that. CLICK HERE TO GO TO MadMan's LINK | ||
| Post# 420853 , Reply# 16 3/1/2020 at 01:52 (1,510 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 420922 , Reply# 17 3/2/2020 at 13:53 (1,509 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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Both of you really need to calm down. It's not your vacuum, so why are you arguing online over a vacuum that isn't even yours? Just be nice! It takes away the fun of this forum when people are constantly bickering. You guys are grown adults arguing online over a tiny little thyristor. Think about that for a bit.
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| Post# 420923 , Reply# 18 3/2/2020 at 13:54 (1,509 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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Both of you really need to calm down. It's not your vacuum, so why are you arguing online over a vacuum that isn't even yours? Just be nice! It takes away the fun of this forum when people are constantly bickering. You guys are grown adults arguing online over a tiny little thyristor. Think about that for a bit.
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| Post# 420924 , Reply# 19 3/2/2020 at 13:55 (1,509 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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| Post# 420926 , Reply# 20 3/2/2020 at 13:58 (1,509 days old) by Rdwdcp (UK) | ||
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Crazykirbydude Hello | ||
| Post# 420929 , Reply# 21 3/2/2020 at 14:02 (1,509 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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@MadMan
Well if you're not familiar with the platform maybe you shouldn't advise people on repairs that you don't understand. To put it in the "car terms" you're concerned about a knock sensor when the piston has gone straight up into the valves. The whole point you're missing here is it's not an electronic repair that's needed. 🤦🏼♂️ The motor needs to be changed out. It's clear in pictures that @chicagomike posted. At this point I am sure @chicagomike it's probably no longer wantingvinvolved in this thread. @chicagomike if you have a relationship with the Miele dealer now would be your time to ask a warranty favor 😉. I wouldn't take advice from somebody @vaclab who had trouble wiring up something simple like a Kirby. @madMan Have a wonderful My Little pony field day! | ||
| Post# 420932 , Reply# 22 3/2/2020 at 14:21 (1,509 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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@crazykirbydude you're you're right there shouldn't have even been an argument.
But then again that's the fun of vacuum land 2020 🤣😂
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| Post# 420934 , Reply# 23 3/2/2020 at 15:44 (1,509 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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Thank you. Vacuumland is a better place when people aren't bickering! :) As far as the Miele goes, I'd just try and find another board to replace it. If it was something simple and common, like a resistor or capacitor, I'd say go for it. However, with that thyristor, If you don't get the EXACT same kind, it could cause issues and damage other things. I'm not really a fan of circuit boards in vacuums. Dust and heat are the two main enemies of electronics, and the inside of a vacuum has both of those. I do a lot of work with computers, and I've seen some that were killed by dust alone. I prefer a simple switch and motor setup. If I wanted variable speed control, a simple potentiometer would do the trick.
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| Post# 420954 , Reply# 24 3/2/2020 at 22:31 (1,509 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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To Be Clear - Motor is Perfect
To Be Clear - Motor is Perfect --- ISSUE is the POS PCB attached to the motor. I swapped out another PCB from my other working vac and the non working motor ran fine - so the issue is the PCB. I cannot buy a new PCB as Miele makes you buy a new motor assembly.
Attached are close-ups. I look forward to hopefully being able to fix the PCB, if I cannot fix it the vacuum is 100% junk as I am not spending $150 on a new motor. | ||
| Post# 420963 , Reply# 25 3/3/2020 at 01:43 (1,508 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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@chicagomike - Looking at pic #1, the lower joint on the upper-most track looks a little crusty. It's hard to tell a cracked joint sometimes, even in person, under a magnifying glass. It could also just be a ring of flux crust. If you have a soldering iron and some flux, apply a touch of flux to it, then reflow the solder. Might be the only problem.
I'm trying to figure out what the other component is, nothing comes up for either number. I'll bet that's an internal number, and the real number is likely under that heatsink-looking thing on it (the one with the blue number sticker on it). The board has large tracks for it, with good separation between the two terminals. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it's a fuse of some kind. It's between one side of the triac/thyristor's connection. Perhaps a thermal fuse, but that's an odd package, and it's in a weird place and wrapped what almost looks like a heatsink with a thermally conductive sheet thingy in between. Either which way, it looks like it should be continuous. Get out the multimeter and check resistance across it, then compare with the known-good one. I'll bet the known-good one is less than 1 ohm. ---- Continuation of the bickering: I'm usually quick on the draw to tell people they're just having a misunderstanding. But I was insulted, then he apologized, and proceeded to insult me more. Now he's taking pot shots at me for being a brony. lol getting desperate, are we? When you can't hold up your end of an argument, turn to insults? Couldn't even muster a good brony insult, I'm disappointed. Oh, and he also threw vaclab under the bus as well, just for good measure, and he wasn't even involved in our little 'adult conversation.' If that doesn't show you what kind of person vacuumdevil is, idk what will. | ||
| Post# 420966 , Reply# 26 3/3/2020 at 03:29 (1,508 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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@chicagomike Date code on that shows that to be still under the warranty.
Those pictures you posted the motor look pretty fucci coochie. If you think it's alright that would be a first time I would have seen that when the board melts from the heat. But anything is possible. I'll check my stockpile tomorrow of used Miele parts and see if I have one I can send you. @MadMan I wished you a nice day in all sincerity. I know you don't know me in person but if I dislike you or had a problem with you you'd know it real fast. Yes no secret that I disapprove vaclabs, but that's old hat. | ||
| Post# 420972 , Reply# 27 3/3/2020 at 06:37 (1,508 days old) by vacfan1982 (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 420995 , Reply# 28 3/3/2020 at 16:03 (1,508 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 421053 , Reply# 29 3/4/2020 at 09:00 (1,507 days old) by vacfan1982 (Cardiff) | ||
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
| Post# 421147 , Reply# 30 3/5/2020 at 17:19 (1,506 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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Date Code
Date code shows older then 7 years
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| Post# 421148 , Reply# 31 3/5/2020 at 17:22 (1,506 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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Under Sticker
Nothing was under sticker. However I did notice words on the backside and believe it says KLIXON
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| Post# 421158 , Reply# 32 3/5/2020 at 23:06 (1,506 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 421159 , Reply# 33 3/6/2020 at 00:06 (1,505 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 421162 , Reply# 34 3/6/2020 at 00:30 (1,505 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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Klixon makes a line of electromechanical products. This is almost certainly a thermal cutoff. A bimetal switch, basically. We don't know the temperature specs though. I still think there will be a part number under that metal clamp / heat sink thing on it.
Then again, we haven't confirmed it's the problem yet. | ||
| Post# 421690 , Reply# 35 3/15/2020 at 20:29 (1,496 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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Update
Today, I took the board from a working motor, and placed the PCB into the motor which was not working, AND the non-working motor worked!! So the issue is 100% the board.
On the broken PCB, I do have continuity between all connected points. The issue is 100% the PCB. Any more thoughts on where to buy the 2 parts so I can try to get the motor working? | ||
| Post# 421691 , Reply# 36 3/15/2020 at 20:37 (1,496 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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Continuity
Between any 2 points with arrows of the same color there was continuity.
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| Post# 421692 , Reply# 37 3/15/2020 at 20:46 (1,496 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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Check the picture. Ensure continuity exists between terminals 1 and 2. Continuity is less than 1 ohm, and not infinity, ensure meter readout is reading in ohms, not K ohms or M ohms. If continuity exists, the Klixon temperature switch is (probably) ok.
Next, ensure the solder joint at the arrow is in good shape. You might want to reflow it just for the heck of it, to be 100% sure, because it looks cracked in the photo. A continuity check regarding that joint should not be trusted, as it may conduct enough to please a meter, but not to pass the several amps to the motor. If the above are in order, just order a couple of those thyristors from the mouser link provided by vaclab. Digikey would be another option. Also, there's no sense in ordering just one, order 5 or so, and keep spares for other machines as this appears to be a common issue. Especially at $1.50 apiece, because shipping for probably up to 100 of them will likely be about $5-10.
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| Post# 421693 , Reply# 38 3/15/2020 at 20:57 (1,496 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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Madman
You want me to peel off the heat shield or whatever it is - the piece with the purple arrows? I sure wont hurt anything as I cant break it since something on it is already not working.
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| Post# 421695 , Reply# 39 3/15/2020 at 20:59 (1,496 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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MadMan | ||
| Post# 421696 , Reply# 40 3/15/2020 at 21:01 (1,496 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI) | ||
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MadMan | ||
| Post# 421711 , Reply# 41 3/16/2020 at 01:36 (1,495 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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According to your readings, then, the thermal switch is not the problem. You reflowed the joint I pointed out, I assume you tested the unit on a motor and it still does not work. So there's only the thyristor left. There's really no sense in disturbing the thermal switch then.
1.8 is a bit high, but you're reading that across dead shorts, so that's just your meter. Consider that number to mean continuity on your meter, then. Order a handful of those thyristors, that's got to be your problem. There's only two parts on the board that could fail. I suppose there's a tiny possibility that the thermal switch is connecting enough to please the meter, but not enough to flow current. The only real way to test that is to run some real current through it. Say, a motor or incandescent light bulb on 120v. Still, the odds are good on the thyristor being the issue. For the price, buy some thyristors and gamble the $10. My offer still stands to do it for you, if you don't feel up to it, but it seems like you've got it. | ||
| Post# 456515 , Reply# 42 9/5/2022 at 08:16 (592 days old) by Mldev (Reading ) | ||
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Did you ever find what the parts are Hi did you ever find the parts of so what were they Thanks | ||
| Post# 456535 , Reply# 43 9/5/2022 at 21:14 (592 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Vacuumdevil - "The circuit boards from Miele are not made in China most of the circuit boards are made in Ukraine or Germany depending on the machine."
Alex, I will GLADLY take a circuit board made in China for one of my vacuums all day long over anything made in Eastern Europe. If you REALLY think the circuit boards Miele and Sebo use are quality, HAH! Their boards are GARBAGE! Look at the issues Electrolux AB had with the circuit boards and motors in their canisters, and they were made in Hungary. Also, the issues Lux International has had with the circuit boards failing on the Intelligence, Excellence and Aerus Electrolux with the Aerus Guardian Platinum are prime examples here. Also, Beam, Mvac and a few other companies who use the Domel single stage central vac motor in their central vacs, that motor is a total piece of JUNK! You're lucky if you get 5 years out of one of those motors, even if it is cared for and maintained properly, and those motors are made in Slovenia. Need I say more? In contrast, Tacony has had better luck with the previous generation KingClean canisters they imported and the Riccar Prima/Simplicity Wonder and their overall quality. I have said it before and I will say it again - these complicated designs only goes to show that the Europeans, and particularly the Italians and Germans, are INFERIOR with their overcomplicated designs compared to Chinese, Korean and Japanese manufacturers who use far more simple components and design in their products. I would agree with the suggestion made by Vaclab, MadMan and Crazykirbydude to try replacing the thyristor on the pcb board. Beko1987/Sam Watson here and on YouTube has done this before with Miele Vortex motors with success, so I see no reason why if done with care and a component with the right tolerances and specs are used that it wouldn't work. Ignore any suggestions made by Alex - remember, not only has he shown and proved his racist Aryan German bias many times towards German and Italian made products, legally HE MUST tell you to replace the entire board as he presently states in his Performance Reviews YouTube channel he works for a authorized Miele dealer, so he must represent legally on any forum online he participates in to do this as this is Miele company policy to replace the entire motor assembly when this happens on the Vortex motors. If he does not, then he is in violation of the contract that the dealer and workers legally entered into with Miele, and they can terminate the dealership to represent and sell Miele at that shop and take any legal action in court that they deem necessary. And by the way, this is EXACTLY WHY I tell people NOT to touch ANY Miele vacuum made after 2003! Chances are, this Miele upright has been abused and used with generic bags or had one too many bag accidents where dust and dirt got into the motor. This is why Miele forces their dealers to promote the use of genuine OEM Original Miele bags and filters, because they claim that using generic bags allow too much dust and dirt to get into the motor and damage the motor. This is EXACTLY what they are talking about. The previous Miele made German double stage motor and Ametek 115923/117923 double stage motors that Miele used DO NOT have this issue, and the motor and circuit board will NOT be damaged by dust and dirt if a bag accident happenes. The reality is, WHEN GENERIC BAGS ARE CORRECTLY USED, THEY WILL NOT DAMAGE THE MOTOR! The reason this happens with the generic bags is that people do not ensure that the bag door tube that goes into the bag collar penetrates the bag completely and is sealed to the bag completely with the silicone gasket. This issue particularly happens when consumers open the bag door to check the bag - they don't realize the bag moves slightly out of place in the bag holder (by design, Miele intentionally designed the bag holder and their bag collars this way to make it easier to remove a full bag from the bag chamber), they don't re-click the bag collar back in in the bag holder, and then the bag door tube doesn't penetrate the bag collar, dirt escapes around the bag collar and floods the bag chamber with dirt, dust and debris. When the bags are used correctly, whether genuine or generic, the bag will take the entire load of dust, dirt and debris being picked up off the floor surface. The ONLY disadvantage generic bags have over the genuine is because they use 5 layers of HEPA Cloth material instead of the Miele AirClean bags using 9 layers of "fluffy polypropylene" HEPA Cloth material, the generic bags will not allow the cleaner to maintain the suction and airflow until the bag is 3/4 full like the Miele AirClean bags will, and like a ordinary bag you will notice the suction and airflow start to drop off as the bag fills. However, this is easily solved by taking the bag out, taking it outside, giving the bag a good vigorous shake to loosen the dust from the walls of the bag hence restoring performance, and reinstall in the cleaner. Doing that, you will find suction and airflow restored to the cleaner, and you can continue to use the bag. How often you have to do this will depend on the ratio of fine dust and dirt vs carpet fibers/hair you are picking up with the cleaner, the less hair/carpet fibers you pick up the more you will have to do this because the hair/carpet fibers act as additional material for the fine sand and dirt to cling to instead of going to the walls of the bag. Rob | ||
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