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Thread Number: 39513
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Does Rainbow E2 Black really need a hepa filter? |
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| Post# 419200 1/27/2020 at 21:53 (1,542 days old) by Vintage_Kitchen (Central Kentucky) | ||
Hey everyone, I was a member in the past, but life took me a different direction, and while I no longer collect, I have missed the site, and I have a question I know only you guys can answer.
I searched the forums, and could find no real consensus on this, does the Rainbow E2 Black really need a hepa filter? I've noticed on my year old Rainbow, it seems to have better airflow with the filter removed, even after rinsing it. Growing up we had a Rainbow D4 SE, and it seemed to have amazing filtration with just water, better than grandma's Kirby Tradition, and at least equal to my aunt's Filter Queen Majestic (maybe a little better, it made the air smell so clean). So does my E2 really need a hepa filter to be effective at filtering the air, or is it just a gimmick and better removed to improve airflow? If it really does need the hepa filter, maybe mine needs replaced? Or is it just the nature of dense hepa filter material to somewhat reduce airflow?
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| Post# 419211 , Reply# 2 1/27/2020 at 23:27 (1,542 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
Rinse
The e series 2 speed gold, silver and platinum HEPA filters are the same.
You clean the filter. It's a heavy duty filter that's made to be cleaned. Rexair tells you to rinse it. They made the machine you need to follow the instructions to have best performance. There is a few Rexair dealers who can answer on this board. You can also call authorized service center. I think they know. Les | ||
| Post# 419222 , Reply# 3 1/28/2020 at 02:56 (1,542 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 419225 , Reply# 4 1/28/2020 at 07:50 (1,542 days old) by electroluxxxx (……) | ||
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Les If you haven’t learned already I am a dealer as well as service personnel for a local distributor. | ||
Post# 419240 , Reply# 5 1/28/2020 at 13:27 (1,541 days old) by Kloveland  (Tulsa) |
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Yeah 
Not a big fan of Rainbow. It takes very little dirt to make clean water look dirty. The older Rainbows had only 50 inches of waterlift or lower and I don’t like dragging around a pan full of water with me. Also I agree water is not a good filter medium.
I do pull my SE out every once in awhile. I do like using the fragrances with them and it is kind of fun to watch the water swirl around. You can mop with them which is nice! | ||
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Post# 419256 , Reply# 6 1/28/2020 at 17:55 (1,541 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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It’s my understanding. That HEPA filters were added to get more certifications for Rexair AS purifiers AND to get around the ( justly so)criticisms about not capturing ALL materials( older ones couldn’t capture no water soluble substances ( ash, drywall dust, talcum power etc). I’ve never heard of the newer ones needling back pressure ( not outright disputing it though). I would feel quite comfortable using my e2 black w/o a filter and have at times IF I’m changing the water often and not trying to p/u non water soluble materials.
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| Post# 419262 , Reply# 7 1/28/2020 at 19:06 (1,541 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY) | ||
I've asked this before
because in 2006 when I bought my rainbow new, I used it for 5 years before changing the HEPA filter. And I didn't notice over that time if I was losing airflow. It felt the same to me, air always pouring out the back and good airflow. If you live in a house where people use baby powder, or flour gets on the floor in the kitchen or any type of super fine powerdery substances, you might as well plan on changing rainbow HEPA's frequently....but if you're just vacuuming up regular dust/dirt/food crumbs, pet hair, etc, no dust should skip the water and go onto the HEPA. You can get generic HEPA's for around 13 or 14 dollars. My last filter I replaced was generic and it's worked perfectly fine over the years.
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| Post# 419263 , Reply# 8 1/28/2020 at 19:25 (1,541 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
Kevin, I Performed Some Tests A While Back | ||
| Post# 419307 , Reply# 9 1/30/2020 at 02:33 (1,540 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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Post# 419366 , Reply# 10 1/31/2020 at 21:48 (1,538 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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Vacuum devil
How did you come to that conclusion ? From what I watched, despite several people's antidotal evidence(opinion) the washing of a hepa filter is doable .....i.e. can be done w/o sacrificing airflow or increasing air emissions. I"m glad he did all that testing to address questions of many vac collectors, to give credence one way or another to whether washing them can be helpful.
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| Post# 419376 , Reply# 11 1/31/2020 at 23:21 (1,538 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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@rivstg1 #419222 #419307 I talked about it in the post above on video .
The HEPA filters are inexpensive enough they should be changed. Not only is there a time cost benefit analysis to this. But my 16 years as a vacuum technician ,I can tell you washing HEPA filters does not do them any good in the end. As stated before will not acknowledge anything from vaclabs. Nothing personal. I hope that answers your question of how I came to my conclusions.I believe you have disagreed with me enough on here to know who I am. If not allow me to reintroduce myself with the link below. Have a great weekend! CLICK HERE TO GO TO vacuumdevil's LINK | ||
| Post# 419392 , Reply# 12 2/1/2020 at 09:32 (1,538 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Mike | ||
| Post# 419403 , Reply# 13 2/2/2020 at 07:52 (1,537 days old) by robsmith1977 (Shippensburg, Pennsylvania) | ||
Hepa Filter
I can tell you from experience when I owned an E1 series that when I had removed the hepa filter to actually try to answer this myself, There was dust leaving the machine and I'm not sure why. I am an experienced Rainbow user so I know WHEN you need to change the water while using the Rainbow. I had a lot of concern from that moment on that Rainbow's do not filter as well as they claim. I eventually bought a new filter and installed it, then sold my last Rainbow. I currently use vacuums that have a fool proof bag change indicator to help me with determining air flow.
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| Post# 450766 , Reply# 15 3/15/2022 at 10:28 (765 days old) by robsmith1977 (Shippensburg, Pennsylvania) | ||
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Update
I need to update my opinion on this subject. I currently am using a D3C quite often because I don't have much carpet at the moment. I always use a 4 quart water basin which I would always recommend when cleaning with a Rainbow. The additional water provides better filtration. I think the newer E series Rainbows have a lot more power and should definitely have a hepa filter installed and changed out once a year. Just my opinion.
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| Post# 450787 , Reply# 16 3/15/2022 at 18:57 (764 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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Post# 451838 , Reply# 18 4/21/2022 at 12:44 (728 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa) |
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Shae,
I agree. I think hepa filters are not necessary for the reasons that you stated. Unless the operator and/or persons in the room have a medical condition or respiratory issues as you also stated. I can understand why this topic comes up so frequently on this site since it is a vacuum cleaner forum. If a reader on here is obsessing over a little dust in the air please ask yourself the following questions: 1. Do I maintain a healthy weight for my body type? 2. I’m I eating a healthy diet. 3. I’m I making good lifestyle choices? Such as not smoking and getting the recommended amount of exercise? To me the items that I listed are more important than having a hepa filter on a vacuum cleaner. Back to the original topic. Not trying to bash. I do own three Rainbows and use them from time to time for fun but as I referred to in my previous post I think Rainbow is one of the worst offenders when it comes to emissions. Depending on what you are vacuuming the hepa filter can become clogged on a Rainbow. Every E series that I’ve owned has come to me with a very clogged hepa filter. In summary, yes I think a Rainbow vacuum cleaner or any other water based vac needs some sort of additional filter to catch what escapes the water. Because depending on what you are vacuuming it can be a lot. | ||
| Post# 451858 , Reply# 19 4/22/2022 at 05:34 (727 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY) | ||
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I'm trying to remember but since 2006....I've only gone through 2 HEPA filters on my rainbow and I'm now on my third. I've never used it without a hepa filter. I will say one thing I do... I fill the basin with more water...over the line..Not so much water than it causes issues...but more water than is recommended. Like 1/2 inch over the dome and line. I cringe when I see rainbow videos on youtube and I can tell there's not enough water in the basin..
anywayz - My house isn't super dirty because I'm a clean freak...but I've vacuumed up some nasty stuff with my rainbow..for a while I was using my rainbow to suck the bin of a bagless vacuum clean...you really can't get much more nasty than that..Afterwards, I would clean the separator and check the filter and it was fine...I've never experienced a rainbow filter clogging personally...the only reason I changed the two so far is because I just felt like it had been so long... Yes - opening your windows and fresh air is best unless you're somewhere dusty. I had nice fresh air pouring through my house the all day yesterday. | ||
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Post# 453741 , Reply# 21 6/11/2022 at 22:41 (676 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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@kloveland. from my experience with Rainbows, the clogging of the filters are mostly from people not changing them over time...and vacuuming up stuff that it wasn't designed to...but more than that last point, I noticed NOT changing the water often enough contributes to the dirt/dust NOT being submerged into the water ( due to already being saturated with dirt) and THAT new dirt going straight into the filter. I"ve only changed 2 filters in 12 years on my rainbows from , what I feel , is proper water management.
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| Post# 454149 , Reply# 23 6/27/2022 at 16:41 (660 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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electromatik, please give us the links
that prove air quality is improved in a typical home. I would LOVE to see that.
Actually owning a newer type particle meter shows a very different picture of vacuum filtration. Here are some general numbers to consider: 1) Assume a small sealed bedroom with minimal furniture (no air in or out) = 1000 cubic feet. Let's say the filter exhaust is 100 CFM (which is a lot), it would take at least 10 minutes to cycle the air through the vacuum, although room vacuum time would be around 3 minutes (carpet). OK, great so the air is now cleaner. Now open the bedroom door and what happens? Your "dirty" home air instantly rushes in. So a sealed room isn't practical. 2) Assume an open door and a central HVAC system. The air is fairly clean already (hopefully) and the overall room (or floor) air volume is 10,000 cubic feet. Even cleaning at 100 CFM, the overall air quality improvement is negligible, although I've measured a short term improvement. 3) Assume an old, leaky house with poor insulation and no HVAC at all. Generally speaking poor indoor air quality. Any vacuum with high filtration would have such a small, temporary improvement in air quality it would be difficult to measure at all. To see more about closed/open room particle tests, check out my playlist: Bill CLICK HERE TO GO TO vaclab's LINK | ||
| Post# 454355 , Reply# 24 7/3/2022 at 08:43 (655 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY) | ||
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Well...
One thing I can say for sure (at least my experience)...when it comes to dusting the house...I have my hepa bagged vac..(which I love, btw) and my rainbow. I'm a clean freak but when I clean I don't do the entire house at once time..Since I do everything so thoroughly..... I'll do one room at a time..getting high and low and everything in between...over the years..I'll sometimes use my Rainbow while other times use my HEPA bagged... Now..there's not a hint of dust in the bag chamber...even going months without changing the bag... I can say for 100% certainty that I have to dust the house again SOONER if I used the HEPA bagged vs the Rainbow...I'm not sure why...the science says this shouldn't be the case...but it is just something I've noticed.. LOL...but that doesn't stop me from using my HEPA bagged more often because I have to be in certain mood to drag my rainbow out.
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| Post# 454401 , Reply# 25 7/4/2022 at 10:44 (654 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Dusting Sooner With HEPA
This isn't a surprise if you understand the difference between what a Rainbow expels versus what a HEPA bagged machine expels.
Consider the HEPA filtered exhaust. It's clean, dry air that will disturb your existing air. In short, it blows existing dust around without adding to it. Older Rainbows (D4C) blasted your existing air with an unfiltered water mist, hence the "water washed smell". So, if mist is blown everywhere the tiny water particles will attach themselves to existing dust particles and drop them to the floor. Fabrics will absorb some as well. Newer HEPA Rainbows have less "water washed smell" because the exhaust is obviously filtered now. Bill | ||
| Post# 454537 , Reply# 27 7/7/2022 at 12:23 (651 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY) | ||
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Dust is my biggest enemy..that and spider webs...I'm pretty good at controlling it if I keep up with vacuuming...But you can't have clutter or trying to dust everything is pointless and makes trying to control it much more difficult. Once you control your clutter it's pretty easy to vacuum everything...I'm not sure what the air quality is minus the dust...but dust is what I aim to remove...I already know the air quality probably isn't great in any home...regardless how clean...but dust annoys the hell outta me...when the sun shines in the room and I don't see dust flying all over or on flat surfaces.. I'm happy...
I still fill my house with eucalyptus while I'm using my rainbow. I swear I can smell it for days after cleaning.. I will ad this small thing: someone I live with uses a CPAP machine to sleep... they took it to the doctor after years to have the machine checked out... the doctor said....are you even using this?? this is the cleanest one anyone has ever brought me to check.. LOL LOL.. I love hearing things like that. | ||
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Post# 454539 , Reply# 29 7/7/2022 at 14:39 (650 days old) by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree) |
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CPAP machines I’ve only seen three of them up close, but they each had their own filtration setup for incoming air. Not trying to start a new discussion, but I thought it was worth mentioning for the sake of accuracy. | ||
| Post# 454540 , Reply# 30 7/7/2022 at 15:13 (650 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY) | ||
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CPAP's do have a filter...but they can get nasty from what I understand...even with a filter..
Trying to put it in words. Say you put some essential oil on a cotton ball and suck it into a bagged vac...that's fine. You can smell it..it smells good...but if you put drops of the same oil into the water and start using the rainbow...it's like a totally different "feel and smell"... Maybe I'm crazy? My rainbow is from 2006.. a gold 2 speed. The HEPA hasn't been changed in years and the fans still look good. I've taken super good care of it... I hate the new SRX from what I've seen. At one point I almost upgraded to the black rainbow (which I think is the best of all of them) but the SRX is a step down I think...even from mine. I'm glad I still have it and it's in good condition...After all these years having it...even though I don't use it every time I vacuum...I still wouldn't want to be without it. | ||
| Post# 454541 , Reply# 31 7/7/2022 at 15:27 (650 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY) | ||
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Hey Electro
Is that Tom from Indiana??? with the black rainbow? You have the best one.. KEEP it. LOL The new one is definitely a step down...they took the power away and the basin in smaller... Do you still clean the church? I know you use your rainbow for all kinds of cleaning...your porch...the garage..etc.
Maybe if I get bored I'll snap some pics of the inside of my rainbow...really not sure how it's stayed so clean all these years because I've used it a LOT...but the fans still look great and my machine still looks almost MINT except for the dolly which has a funky spot on it where years ago I fell off of a ladder with it a part of the dolly hit took most of the brunt of the fall but it caused a discolored spot on the dolly.... I think that was in the first year of my owning it. (LOL) That's when I ended up buying the 14-foot non-electric hose LOL...best purchase ever for my rainbow. I can even use my 14-foot rainbow hose on my cirrus HEPA bagged vac if I don't feel like using my rainbow...I can pop the cirrus hose off and it fits right into the 14-foot rainbow hose...and I can use all the rainbow attachments, etc...but the smell...that rainbow smell....You can't beat it...that's why I always end up using it pretty frequently. | ||
| Post# 454647 , Reply# 33 7/10/2022 at 14:16 (647 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Tekjunkie28,
You said "I dont agree with the statement that older rainbows blew out mist but Id like to see that. I bet that came about from people who didnt know how to use it."
For the first 60 years of Rexar/Rainbow, there was no exhaust filter and dealers spoke highly of "water washed air". How do you think the air gets "water washed" without water? This "mist" I speak of is very fine of course, but it is still a mist. As you can see in the video, the particle count increases 61% and the relative humidity increases by 2.6%. And that's just in 10 minutes. Similar results can be had by purchasing a $20 humidifier. Newer Rainbows have a HEPA filter that does a great job of filtering the water particles emitted, but they significantly reduce the "water washed" smell, which I quite like. | ||
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