Thread Number: 39321  /  Tag: 50s/60s/70s Vacuum Cleaners
Kirby vintage restore to daily?
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Post# 417202   12/13/2019 at 08:07 (1,568 days old) by vap0rtranz (Wisconsin)        

vap0rtranz's profile picture
Hi, I rescued 2 vintage Kirbys and want to restore them both to daily use, so what would folks recommend I do to them?

Pics attached. The factory stamp says: 1st is a 514, and 2nd is a 561.

(If you like the story behind these, then here's a short story)

[start of short story]

I saw one of these in the back of a local Habitat for Restore but only admired the look of it because we had a ball Dyson. Well the Dyson's "internal hose assembly" failed after that visit to the ReStore. I bought Dyson's replacement part, started disassembling the Dyson, ... and stopped. I stopped DIYing the fix because the machine build was a nightmare IMO: plastic parts to pry, layers of plastic to remove, more plastic parts that looked like they were going to fail soon too, and the reason the "internal hose assembly" had failed was because of a plastic tab that broke. It upset me that such a simple, plastic tab prevented the whole $$$ vacuum from working -- one would think it would be a critical component, more solidly built, and what's worse was the failure happened right after our Dyson warranty expired. Planned obselence anyone?! :/ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_ob....)

I got approval, from my signifigant other :) that if the old Kirby at the Restore shop was still there, then I'd grab it. I sort of knew what I would be getting. My sister bought a Kirby G5 new back in the 90s and I remember it being LOUD and HEAVY as heck but she swears by Kirby to this day -- so 20+ years later? -- for picking up dog and cat hair. Well, you can see from the pics that the old Kirby was still there, and another one! So I grabbed both: $20 bucks each!)

[end of short story]

Can folks give some advice on a couple questions about how to restore these vacuums for daily use?

1. replace belt
2. replace beater bar?
3. clean cloth bag
4. service motor

1. replace belt - folks on this forum have given out part #s, like for belt replacement, but I cannot find where those part #s come from. Are folks talking about OEM Kirby parts that are on Kirby's website? or on this Vacuumland site somewhere?

2. beater bar - I can see and hear the bars beating the carpet (but I've not risked touching the bar while the vaccums are on), so what are signs that the bar needs replacing? Is it if the brush looks worn down? or something else.

3. cloth bag - both bags came full of dirt & dust, and both smell "musty". I've emptied them both the way Kirby's owners manual says to, but it sounds like most folks recommend a hand wash with mild detergent. So how do I get these cloth bags off of the Sani Em-tor to wash them? The bag looks and feels like a very tight fit on the Em-tor's mating ring, and the Kirby owner's manual doesn't say how to remove the bags. My fear is the bags could tear or I stretch the fabric trying to remove them, so how do you do this without breaking bags?

4. motor service - what's expected in a service? I'm pretty frugal so try to DIY anything first, and there are 2 highly recommended vacuum shops nearby, though neither is exclusive to Kirby. I watched a couple Youtube videos where folks disassemble a Kirby and the motor itself looks pretty contained, so can a tickerer type of person actually DIY the service?


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size
Post# 417205 , Reply# 1   12/13/2019 at 09:41 (1,567 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
Nice catch on both of those machines. They're considerably older than any in my stable but they are definitely DIY friendly. That's the beauty of a Kirby. You should definitely replace the belts on both machines, just to be on the safe side. As for the brush rolls, I think it's a matter of how well they are performing. If they are doing what you need them to do and bristles are visibly worn down to nubs, then let 'em roll. As a matter of sanitation, since you don't know where these machines have been, I would definitely wash the bags. Either hand wash or put them in the machine on the delicate cycle and hang them to dry. Don't put them through the dryer. As for the mechanicals, if the machines are running okay, then they may just need some lubrication. You might also consider replacing the brushes on the motor and check the condition of the fan. If they have their original metal fans and they're chipped or cracked, replace them with a new white Amodel plastic fan, just to be safe. Also, check the cords and replace them if there are any breaks in the insulation or if a plug is damaged or pulling loose.

Post# 417206 , Reply# 2   12/13/2019 at 09:54 (1,567 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
The way those two machines come apart are different. Start with the newer one first (562). Remove the switch 'button' and it's easy to disassemble that one. The bearings are still available, although you will have to press the front bearing out of it's plate unless you can find a new bearing plate with a new bearing in it. Carbon brushes are still available for it. Definitely change the fan to the new beige plastic one.

Post# 417210 , Reply# 3   12/13/2019 at 13:52 (1,567 days old) by jrdavis (oklahoma)        
bearing plate

jrdavis's profile picture
need new bearing plate? i got too many to ever use. want one?

Post# 417226 , Reply# 4   12/13/2019 at 18:57 (1,567 days old) by KirbyCollector (Columbus Ohio USA)        
That bag on the 514.

kirbycollector's profile picture
That same lightning logo is on a grey Kirby bag I have. Here is my 508 with the lightning bag before I put an original bag on it.

  View Full Size
Post# 417227 , Reply# 5   12/13/2019 at 19:36 (1,567 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

First of all, great score on these two machines!
To turn them in to reliable daily runners for decades to come, here is what I would recommend (coming from someone who has restored 6-8 of Kirbys).

Check out this thread about my 505 resto, which will be similar to your 514.
www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bi...
I would start on the 514 since it is easier to work on and has less parts. When it is done, proceed to the next one.

Belt definitely replace but order 'soft' 159056S Kirby belts (Kirbyfans on ebay sells them). The modern stiffer ones will help break your rare belt lifter on the 514 and wear out sleeve roller brush bearings faster.

In the brush roll, if sleeve bearings are not too loose and bristles still poke 1/16-1/8 past the rug plate when adjusted, then disassemble, clean/wash, relube, and reuse.

Motor carbon brushes should be replaced if less than 1/2" since they are out. They can wear down to 1/4" with no issues. Mark them before removing if they are to be reused so they go back in the same way they came out for even wear.

Motor bearings should be replaced as wear is unknown and old grease will have hardened. Use Kirby 1155 and 1160 (kirbyfans on ebay has them). The front one can be tapped in and out of the bearing plate with suitable sockets. Rear one will require a puller to remove. See my thread on how to make one.

Check commutator for severe wear or burning. If good then just dust the motor windings out well with dry brushes. Inspect switch and wiring. No need to rewire the unit unless insulation is compromised. Avoid bending wires as insulation could break or tear.

I would disassemble most all of it, clean, polish, etc, to make it beautiful.

Bag definitely remove, turn inside out, remove dust and debris outside, then wash carefully in a bucket with a little light detergent. Just a little. Then rinse. Repeat until water stays clean. Do not use a HE top load washing machine that has a scrub plate at the bottom as that can damage it. Other machines should be ok.
Do not use heat to dry. Hang in sun or wind or in front of fan to dry.

Lastly, here is a page for some general tips that could help you service older Kirbys.
www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bi...

Some members here might have the bearings, belts, and other parts also.
Keep the thread updated and holler if you need help! :o)






Post# 417228 , Reply# 6   12/13/2019 at 20:01 (1,567 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

Oh, and for fans...

While it is apart, inspect the fan well. If okay, remove by turning it clockwise and holding armature with awl inserted in motor shaft hole. Wash well if not grey or broke.

If fan is metal, look for broke blades (vac will vibrate if break is big enough) or cracks. Replace if found. Minor bends are okay but do not try to straighten them or they will break. If it looks good, reuse it. Metal does not deteriorate but are more fragile than the amodal ones as they are cast aluminum. Avoid picking up stones, coins, screws, etc and you will be fine with it.

If fan is grey plastic, replace it now before it grenades (if it hasn't already). This plastic is lexan from the 80's and it deteriorates with age. I had one blow on me recently and I often see them blown apart or in the process of doing so.

If fan is amodal (white, cream, or beige), then inspect and reuse if okay. These are the most durable. New fan sold new today are this material and are used in all the G series. If ordering, make sure you get the right one. G series use a slightly longer shaft than the older machines.
Only drawbacks to amodal are the difference in original looks and motor sound. The metal fans create unique harmonics from motor vibrations that make them sound like, well, vintage Kirbys! An experienced Kirby guy WILL know the difference just by the sound! :o)


Post# 417235 , Reply# 7   12/13/2019 at 22:27 (1,567 days old) by vap0rtranz (Wisconsin)        
following up

vap0rtranz's profile picture
@texaskirbyguy - I read through your thread on 505 restoration. That is a very thorough job that you documented, wow! Your 505 looks stellar, and I like the red (even if not stock original). Looks like I have my work cut out for me to service the motor. I'll probably want to reach out if (when) I get stuck on replacement and re-assembly.

@KirbyCollector - your grey bag with the large "lightening" logo is the 2nd one that I've spotted this week. Found this on Youtube:



@jrdavis - I may take you up on that offer. I'm new to this site so have to figure out how to direct message other members or whatever ...


Post# 417236 , Reply# 8   12/13/2019 at 22:42 (1,567 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hmm

lesinutah's profile picture
I don't agree with all suggestions.
The white and red bag is what Kirby used on rebuilds. The gold bag is bag from cr1 classic. It started production in 1970.
If the fans are metal and not chipped keep them on.
The bearing plate you don't need a bearing puller. The top of bearing plate use a nail tap. It could also be called a set. If you tap it the bearing will come out other side.
I'm only mentioning this as you said your frugal. Clean bearings repack/grease reinstall. I'd change carbon brushes and belts. Your brush roll just use adjustment screws they should last.
If you want aesthetics swap out the classic bag for another bag. If you want to trade I have a greyish bag with red diamond with a k in middle of the diamond. It matches grey and red hues from both of your vacuums.
If you get some steel wool go over the vacuum it will clean out most imperfections.
The belt and carbon brushes might cost $10.
You change nothing else just steel wool and maybe polish.
The 561 4 amp motor is awesome. The 514 may have same motor if it's been rebuilt ever. They perform very well and easy to upkeep.
So don't buy bearing plate, fan or others. I'd do just belt and brushes. If you like it and want to change more you will know by then how much or how little you want to spend if any doing things like fans or bearing platez.
Les


Post# 417241 , Reply# 9   12/14/2019 at 09:05 (1,567 days old) by vap0rtranz (Wisconsin)        
Hmmm, mmhmm

vap0rtranz's profile picture
Hey Les,

I was leaning towards the direction you're taking.

- fan = I visually checked both fans and there's no damaage, so I'm going to keep them; and understand it's a safety issue but I use a shop vac to suck up large objects that could cause damage, or I use my hands to pickup. :) I'd hate to loose the sound of these old Kirbys with a plastic fan.

- bearing = yup, the replacements that @texaskirbyguy recommended are indeed around $10. If the originals look ok, I'll try your idea of repacking them.

- carbon brushes = on this one I'm going with @texaskirbyguy's recommendation to check how short the brushes are and replace if less than 1/2".

- cloth bag = @Lesinutah, ty for the offer on the bag. I just hand washed the 561's bag (after a hell of a time getting it off the Em-tor) and the water turned black like one of @texaskirbguy's photos in his guide. It's not visible in the photo but the 561's bag has a tag on the back that's stamped "Scott & Fetzer", and it has the zipper pouch on the backside with scrubber inside, so even if that bag is not original to the 561 it's clearly a Kirby bag so I'd like to try keeping it in use for now.

- motors = both Kirby's have their original factory stamps, not a rebuild stamp, so the 516 must be a 3amp. I'll post more pics once I start disassembly.

- polish @ Lesinutah, do you mean high grade steel wool? like 000?



Post# 417245 , Reply# 10   12/14/2019 at 10:12 (1,566 days old) by Hoover300 (Kentucky)        

hoover300's profile picture
The 514 should have a 4 amp motor, unless it was modified. The 513 was the last to have a 3 amp, and it was discontinued halfway through production. It should state the amperage on the top left part of the tag, almost right above the logo.
~K


Post# 417246 , Reply# 11   12/14/2019 at 10:45 (1,566 days old) by KirbyCollector (Columbus Ohio USA)        
vap0tranz

kirbycollector's profile picture
That 508 video is mine. That was when I first got it. Now it has the original bag. I wonder where that lightning logo came from.

Post# 417253 , Reply# 12   12/14/2019 at 15:49 (1,566 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hey

lesinutah's profile picture
513 has 3 and 4 amp motors. I believe if it has a toggle switch it's a 3 amp. The 513-515 4 amp motor I believe is different than 516 to sanitronic 7. The outer shell changed it switched from a metal power switch to a plastic one. The hose couplers are different. The bracket is moved to fit new coupler.
I'm guessing but I'm probably right that through 515 they had 500 body type. The 516 almost identical to dual sanitronic vacuum. The difference would be location of safety switch and the hole on dual sanitronics on face plate is different.
I believe the older of your two vacuums fan on the backside has a little bit deeper spacer or whatever you want to call it on the back of the fan.
Can't wait to see pics.
Les


Post# 417254 , Reply# 13   12/14/2019 at 15:56 (1,566 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
LesinUtah

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Les,

As far as I know, *all* 513s (both with the 3 amp and the 4 amp motor) had the step-on foot switch and the new-style brush roll and rug plate.

The only traits that distinguish the early (3 amp) machines from the later (4 amp) ones are the gray handle grip and non-swiveling top cord hook.

~Ben


Post# 417261 , Reply# 14   12/14/2019 at 20:15 (1,566 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Ben

lesinutah's profile picture
Ben
I have seen a 513 with a toggle switch. I will try to find a pic but they exist.
I asked someone they said maybe it was leftover stock. They have 3 amp and 4 amp on 513. Its not hard to believe a toggle switch that was on every 3 amp Kirby from model 1930s. I know diagrams agree with you.
I seen a 508 with a 505 belt lifter.
The diagrams agree but the toggle switch on 513 happened. I'll try to find the pic.
Les


Post# 417264 , Reply# 15   12/14/2019 at 21:10 (1,566 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
LesinUtah

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Les,

The 513 instruction book, although many pictures are still recycled from as far back as the model 2C manual, does make mention of the new features, including what they call the "push-push" switch, and the parts list in it shows the new-style rug plate and brush roll assembly.

~Ben


Post# 417267 , Reply# 16   12/14/2019 at 22:54 (1,566 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Yes

lesinutah's profile picture
I know Ben. The 513 was sold in classifieds around July. The 508 with the 505 belt lifted was in new York when I tried to get the janitronic.
His 513 looks like it has black wheels. I thought 513 grey wheels started on this model.
The white cord with tan ends hmc has on 562 sanitronic 7 and d50.
The handi Butler was released in late 1949 on 509. The first you see of it's in the 510.
The safety switch on cr1 was changed to different switch in the same year.
I'm just saying the book is a good reference but I've mentioned a few examples it's not perfect.
I know rug plate changed. The grip, swivel hook, aluminum push button etc.
Les



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