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Thread Number: 38933
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Next Kirby? |
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| Post# 413342 9/3/2019 at 15:06 (1,688 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413344 , Reply# 1 9/3/2019 at 16:15 (1,688 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom) | ||
Must be like trying to redesign a racehorse. They've got a winning formula and they're reluctant to change any part of it.
Is there really much difference between any of the recent Kirbys? Other than bag colour? Don't get me wrong, I like them, but I'd be hard-pressed to explain the differences between say a G4 and an Avalir 2. | ||
| Post# 413345 , Reply# 2 9/3/2019 at 16:18 (1,688 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413359 , Reply# 5 9/4/2019 at 03:29 (1,687 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom) | ||
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| Post# 413360 , Reply# 6 9/4/2019 at 08:59 (1,687 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
I don't really care what the next Kirby looks like as long as it's made of metal and doesn't contain a bunch of self-destructing circuit boards. The next new thing is of minimal importance to me because I won't be buying it before it's the next old thing, anyway. And if I'm truly honest with myself, I have more than enough high quality Kirby and Electrolux vacuums at my house to last me a lifetime and then some.
As for the idea of deleting the Tech Drive, I honestly can't see Kirby doing that. It's been integral to their design for three decades and is their answer to the criticism that their machines are too heavy, which is a major turnoff for many people. It would make as much sense as Cadillac suddenly deciding to quit including automatic transmissions, cruise control, power windows, seats, steering, etc. on their cars. | ||
| Post# 413365 , Reply# 7 9/4/2019 at 09:44 (1,687 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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| Post# 413372 , Reply# 9 9/4/2019 at 11:47 (1,687 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
I think they should take a two-model approach. Have a lightweight, modernized rendition of the older 500 series for the bottom of the line, and a new G-Series for the top of the line. I'm sure customers would appreciate a lighter Kirby like the old 500 series was. Hell, even some plasticrap machines are heavier than the old 500 series Kirby.
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| Post# 413378 , Reply# 10 9/4/2019 at 17:00 (1,687 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
Kirby is never going to have two models at the same time. Not going to happen. You have to think about how it's sold. The door to door salesman has two jobs. Get into the house at any cost. Number two: make them unhappy with the vacuum they have now. That's it. Their entire job. The more unhappy they are with their present vac, the more likely they will be to buy a new machine. Can you imagine having two models in the van with 10 salesmen who are out canvasing neighborhoods?
Salesmen in general last a very short while. To get them to remember the features of ONE machine is almost impossible, much less two. Just in the US alone, Kirby is selling about 30,000 units per month. Probably none to vacuum collectors, which is why they don't care about making anything 'vintage'. I have a good friend who does the repair work for the largest Kirby distributor in a Southern state. He sends me pictures of the trade ins so I can pick out what I want him to bring me. The vast majority of cleaners traded in on a new Kirby are cheap plastic vacuums - not old Kirbys. Maybe because old Kirbys are owned by people who don't want to let a Kirby salesman back in. | ||
| Post# 413379 , Reply# 11 9/4/2019 at 17:25 (1,687 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom) | ||
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| Post# 413380 , Reply# 12 9/4/2019 at 17:42 (1,687 days old) by broomvac (N/A) | ||
I think Kirby would do well with a large, independently powered direct drive (think Panasonic) brush roll which activates whenever you lean the handle back. We all know that an aggressive brush roll can “pull” a vacuum along; why not have this direct drive brush change direction of rotation to help pull/push the vacuum with each stroke. You could also deactivate it with the flip of a switch for bare floor cleaning.
For wet cleaning, slide off the regular carpet body/drum and install one dedicated to shampooing. Since it’s independently driven, the suction motor could be switched off altogether. This system could also enable onboard tools, something Kirby needs. | ||
| Post# 413389 , Reply# 13 9/4/2019 at 19:23 (1,687 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom) | ||
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| Post# 413390 , Reply# 14 9/4/2019 at 19:25 (1,687 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
I Tend To Agree With The Winning Formula Comment
From Alan, at least performance-wise. I might make a video more fully explaining this, but it may very well be that the "Tech Drive" is the most important piece of engineering in modern Kirbys.
Think about this: With the Tech Drive, a HUGE amount of CFM forced deep down into pile carpet is made usable and gives the best airflow I've ever measured through a medium pile carpet. Removing the Tech Drive would mean either the nozzle would have to be made significantly larger to decrease the airflow density and/or the CFM would have to be decreased from 150-ish to maybe 90-ish. And if you believe going back 50 years to a high CFM, lightweight, small nozzle machine like a D80, think again IF you have lots of wall-to-wall pile carpet. My 125 CFM fully refurbished D80 is UNUSABLE in such a situation due to the "suction cup" effect, even if I place the height adjustment on position "4" and open the relief valve. Bill | ||
| Post# 413391 , Reply# 15 9/4/2019 at 19:28 (1,687 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
Hmm | ||
| Post# 413401 , Reply# 16 9/4/2019 at 21:01 (1,686 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
Honestly, going retro might not be a bad move for Kirby. Their machine already looks like a dated machine that's been prettied-up - to the regular consumer, that is. They might as well go all the way and make it look as retro as possible, while keeping all the current features. At minimum, they would keep their current market, and at best, they'd get new customers that like a bit of nostalgia.
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| Post# 413402 , Reply# 17 9/4/2019 at 21:20 (1,686 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom) | ||
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Hi Bill,
Thank-you so much for your reasoned, easy-to-follow, explanation. I've seen so many of those YouTube videos you refer to and, quite frankly, been none the wiser afterwards. Can I ask you; Is "The Suction Cup Effect" where the brushroll head sucks so hard to the carpet, that air isn't effectively flowing through the system, and out of the bag? That sounds like the bit I couldn't get my head around with the Tradition and Fill-tube assembly? Is this why people regard the tube as too narrow? It has suction, but not throughput? Thanks, Alan BTW: Well done for sitting crossed-legged for so long. I have a couple of years on you and it was making my knees hurt just watching 😀 | ||
Post# 413403 , Reply# 18 9/4/2019 at 21:27 (1,686 days old) by Air-WayCharlie  (USA) |
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If they are selling 30,000 units a month--think about that for a moment--30,000 vacuums in one month. Lets see that would be 360,000 Kirbys a year! With those kind of numbers why would they be motivated to change a thing?
I'm not sure what that would translate to in gross sales but they seem to be going strong and have costs under control. When I was still active in the vacuum business I was dumbfounded by the number of people that bought them NEW, used them for maybe 12 months and then put them in the back of a closet and bought some cheap plastic dustblower for ease of use. We tend to super analyze vacuums and the average buyer doesn't see them as anything more than a toaster or blender or coffee maker. If an emotional pitched sale with a pretty vacuum and good demo takes place--a sale is made whether they need the vacuum or not. | ||
| Post# 413412 , Reply# 20 9/5/2019 at 02:14 (1,686 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413418 , Reply# 22 9/5/2019 at 09:21 (1,686 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
I met with some fire and brimstone from the Kirby "die-hards" the last time I posted regarding this subject about how the Generation platform is tried and true, and Kirby WON'T come up with a new machine until they can come up with a better design. I myself feel 30 years is too long and the Avalir 2 is essentially a Generation 3 in drag. Yes, the Tech Drive makes the machine easier to push, but only when its plugged in. What about carrying it up and down stairs? I would welcome a lighter machine that's still all-aluminum.
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Post# 413423 , Reply# 23 9/5/2019 at 10:20 (1,686 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa) |
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Yes, | ||
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Post# 413424 , Reply# 24 9/5/2019 at 10:27 (1,686 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa) |
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| Post# 413434 , Reply# 26 9/5/2019 at 15:48 (1,686 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413437 , Reply# 28 9/5/2019 at 16:39 (1,686 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413439 , Reply# 29 9/5/2019 at 17:09 (1,686 days old) by Juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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@kirbyg6 Ain’t that the truth. I’m really hoping for a blue Kirby with white accent pieces. Kind of like that limited edition Kitchenaid, which is in misty blue or maybe something in the light blue category. Maybe even baby blue | ||
| Post# 413440 , Reply# 30 9/5/2019 at 17:31 (1,686 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413467 , Reply# 32 9/6/2019 at 13:57 (1,685 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
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I really hope I'm wrong here, but in New York Kirby isn't doing well. The number of distributors is diminishing and I think they're gonna get the full mileage out of that Generation platform until they close their doors. We may see another variation or two of the Generation series before they shudder completely but I don't think we'll ever see a completely new model again...
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| Post# 413490 , Reply# 35 9/7/2019 at 09:15 (1,684 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
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It is a tried and true design, I will give you that. But could any other consumer product soldier on virtually unchanged for the past THIRTY years? Probably not. Take for instance, the automotive industry. Would you buy a car that looks essentially the same as the 1990 model if there are other choices out there? Probably not. I was as much a fan of the Generation 3 when it came out in 1990 as anyone else in the forum, as I was the G4, G5, G6, and so on. But, by 2014 (dovetailed with the centennial of Kirby) I expected something truly revolutionary again. That didn't happen. I saw prototype drawings on this very site of a totally new Kirby. When I saw that the Avalir was just another warmed-over Generation series machine it was a bit of a disappointment. And let's face it. The G-series IS a dated design, and the Tech Drive DOES make the machine heavier to lift up and down stairs. I think people would really like to see 12-inch "granny head" again and yours truly would love to see an on/off switch in the handle (as the prototype drawings indicated). If the Kirby salesman were to come to my house, I'd pull out my Generation 3 and ask point blank "okay, so what really IS the difference?" The answer, purely cosmetic.
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| Post# 413492 , Reply# 36 9/7/2019 at 09:59 (1,684 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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Quite true. I've often said that Kirby's biggest competitor is itself. Why would anyone step up to a brand new Kirby's four-figure pricetag when you can go down to you local thrift store and pick a nice one up, a few years old, with all its accessories for less than the price of a new plasticrap vac at Wallyworld? My barely used gray and orange Sentria was a hell of a lot better value at $110 than a brand new Avalir that would have cost me 10-15 times as much. I'd much rather take advantage of a somewhat saturated second hand market.
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| Post# 413493 , Reply# 37 9/7/2019 at 11:22 (1,684 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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The Kirby has changed
so much in 100 years of making them. Not. Model 1C on the left, 100th Anniversary Avalir on the right. Generation after Generation.
View Full Size
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| Post# 413501 , Reply# 38 9/7/2019 at 14:37 (1,684 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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Post# 413524 , Reply# 39 9/7/2019 at 20:56 (1,683 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs) |
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colors etc
With minor but constant airflow improvements due to brushroll design, emptor redesigns, bag technology, fill tube diameter and construction changes, and finally a slightly higher spinning motor . But, everyone is basically correct with their statements....its almost same vacuum since 1990.
I was talking with a Kirby technician and salesman for 35+ years....he told me from what he knew of the ownership/engineering aspect of the company....they HAVE tested moving the attachments onto the handle area and several other changes.....and that they won't manufacture a 'new' Kirby unless its better performing than the existing one. IF all that's true, it certainly adds ammo to the understanding of WHY its still basically the same vacuum. ideas to ponder.... | ||
| Post# 413534 , Reply# 40 9/7/2019 at 22:47 (1,683 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah) | ||
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Dysonman | ||
| Post# 413562 , Reply# 41 9/8/2019 at 12:05 (1,683 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
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They've had long enough to develop a new design.... | ||
| Post# 413566 , Reply# 42 9/8/2019 at 13:16 (1,683 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413571 , Reply# 43 9/8/2019 at 14:25 (1,683 days old) by Juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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Well if they read these forums then they can take some ideas and roll with it. Like it shouldn’t be hard. If rainbow can improve on the E2 Black and come out with the new SRX then Kirby can do something, besides a new shampooer. | ||
| Post# 413627 , Reply# 47 9/9/2019 at 15:30 (1,682 days old) by mmcphee (Lisbon Falls, Maine) | ||
Electric Attachments?
For me, I think they should bring the of the pre-Sentria Kirby back and add some electric attachments. All they would have to do is add a power take-off socket on the side of the vacuum and make an electrified hose. That way they could offer an electric power nozzle and an electric version of the Zippbrush. Once they do that, all they would have to do it make it an optional accessory and call it the Electric Attachment Set. Kirby wouldn't even have to make the electric nozzles themselves. All they would have to do is purchase them through Wessel-Werk (EBK 360 perhaps) and then slap their names on them like every other vacuum manufacturer. That way, you can use your Kirby to get under low pieces of furniture (a magical concept in the world of Kirby) They should also bring back the normal/delicate switch that made its appearance and exit on the Diamond Edition.
They should also drop the black color scheme and come up with something different. Another thing that might be an interesting feature would be a retractable power cord. Take what a Kirby used to be in the Generation Series and add some new features that they haven't tried before. | ||
| Post# 413630 , Reply# 48 9/9/2019 at 17:28 (1,682 days old) by Kirbyg6 (York) | ||
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| Post# 413631 , Reply# 49 9/9/2019 at 18:28 (1,682 days old) by Juju93 (South Georgia) | ||
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Also scale down the overall size of the carpet shampooer. It’s too bulky and can’t get into tight spaces. | ||
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Post# 413638 , Reply# 52 9/9/2019 at 21:51 (1,681 days old) by rodknock95 (Salem, Missouri) |
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Canister I think they should design a canister and corner the market. I use my Kirby for bi-day whip outs, and when I really get in the cleaning mode, use the Aerus Guardian cause its easier to switch from carpet mode to hose mode. Blaze | ||
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Post# 413663 , Reply# 54 9/10/2019 at 15:30 (1,681 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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These are reasons  | ||
| Post# 413715 , Reply# 55 9/12/2019 at 11:01 (1,679 days old) by mmcphee (Lisbon Falls, Maine) | ||
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Dual Motors? | ||
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