Thread Number: 388
Miele Capricorn vs Sebo Airbelt C3 vs Riccar 1800
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Post# 3677   11/8/2006 at 14:12 (4,726 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

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I went to my local vac shop today to try out the Miele. I currently have a Lux 9000 and while it is a good vacuum and I like most of the features there are a few things I don't like. The vacuum is heavy, noisy, does not manoevre easily on carpeting and the hose handle is big, heavy and awkward to use when using the dusting brush and mini power nozzle. I've done a lot of research on the internet, read reviews, etc. and decided that I was interested in the Miele. It is supposed to be quiet, good suction and the SEB236 power brush more than adequate on medium pile carpeting. Well the vac dealer tells me today that he is no longer pushing Miele...in fact he is going to stop selling them altogether. His new favourite machine is the Sebo. He just started selling Riccar also and thinks it may even be better than the Sebo. I tried the Sebo and found the ET-H power nozzle to be very good....it pulled itself across the carpeting. Also the machine was very quiet. I'm not too sure about the hose handle and the wire that is exposed in order that the hose can swivel left to right. I didn't try the Riccar but it seems to be impressive also. He was selling the Sebo for $999 CAD and the Riccar for $1349 CAD. I'm still leaning towards the Miele just based on everything I've read but not being able to try one out, I'm not sure. Any comments?




Post# 3678 , Reply# 1   11/8/2006 at 14:42 (4,726 days old) by bimmer740 (Long Island, New York)        
Miele vs Sebo

bimmer740's profile picture
I have a Miele Red Velvet that I like but its not fabulous, however I did hear that the S5 models are more powerful. The Electrolux is a good machine, I had a Renaissance, but they can be a pain to pull around since they dont move as easily as the 6500 or metal bodied machines. I put in a VacuFlu central vac a few months ago after looking for a new canister. If I didnt choose the Vacuflo, i think i would have bought the Sebo. It has a power nozzle that reminds me of the Electrolux, and it seems to be engineered for someone who is concerned more with its funtion than beauty. While looking around online I found the Sebos bags to be less expensive than the Mieles. If you are able put a central vac unit into your home, you can probably do it for a cost similar to the Miele (at least it was for my house). Its the best vac I have used so far and if you have pets, no more smelly bags. What about an Air-Way? Im sure that some of the other members can offer you a whole lot more info on all the machines. Good luck!
-Steven


Post# 3685 , Reply# 2   11/8/2006 at 16:29 (4,726 days old) by andy (Boston, MA)        
Well I might be a little biased...

But I've never seen a better canister than the Miele S5 series. The floor brush alone beats the heck out of the Sebo canister's floor brush.

I have both machines in my store. Here are the reasons why I personally would choose the Miele over the Sebo

1.) The hose handle. I don't like the feel of the grip on the Sebo handle; it's too small. The Miele S5 handle has a much more substantial feel to it.

2.) Power. As a vacuum collector, I personally like to know that what I have is the most powerful. The Miele pulls about 5 more inches of waterlift than the Sebo and registers an 8 versus the Sebo's 7. Granted both readings are excellent.

3.) Bag capacity. Yes, the Sebo bags are larger and less expensive. However they lose airflow MUCH more quickly than the Miele filtrete style bags. I have a Miele G/N bag which is STUFFED FULL of dirt from a Sanitaire that came in for repair. The Miele's airflow starts out at 8 on the Baird meter, and when the bag is jam packed full, it registers at 4. Before I typed this post, I wanted to see how the Sebo would fare in a similar test. I cut open the Miele bag, and proceeded to use the Sebo to empty the dirt. I hadn't gotten a third of the way through the dirt when the Sebo's airflow dropped to four. Another thing that I noticed was that the sharp turn in the handle caused it to clog on several different occasions. Now normally you wouldn't be sucking up dirt like I did, but when you compare the Miele handle to the Sebo handle, you will notice that there are NO SHARP CURVES in the handle to get clogged.

4.) Power nozzle. If you turn over a Miele 236 power nozzle, you will notice that there is virtually no spaces between the tufts of bristles. For demonstration, I routinely throw down rice, kapok, etc. Generally speaking, the amount of debris on the floor determines the number of passes it takes to clean everything up. I've compared the two several times, and it seems like for however many passes it takes the Miele, it always takes the Sebo about one or two more. The powernozzle that I have on my floor model is the ET-1 (Felix) powerhead. I have not tried the other heads yet.

All of the canisters you mentioned are excellent canisters. I don't have a lot of experience with the Riccars, but I don't think you could go wrong with one. Personally, the Miele floor tool and the overall feel of quality is what seals the deal for me.

Central vacuums, as Steven mentioned are also excellent.


Post# 3686 , Reply# 3   11/8/2006 at 16:32 (4,726 days old) by andy (Boston, MA)        
I almost forgot

The Miele car care kit is a must have. It includes the mini turbo brush, a huge crevice tool, a detailer hose, and a 10' straight suction hose. The 10' hose is a joy to use for dusting because it's just a small straight end that you're dealing with. The big, clunky electric hose handles are wonderful for steering powerheads, but when it comes to dusting in tight spaces, they get in the way. This hose alleviates that problem.

Post# 3687 , Reply# 4   11/8/2006 at 16:40 (4,726 days old) by andy (Boston, MA)        
Also...

Don't get too concerned about how the powerheads pull themselves across the carpet. It doesn't necessarily mean they clean better. The Sebo Felix head practically takes off across the room, but doesn't clean as well as the 236. I'll admit the heft of the 236 takes some getting used too, but the way it cleans makes up for it. On my medium pile carpet at home, it pulls itself across some, but not as much as the Felix head will. The plus side to this is that you don't have to put as much energy into pulling the head backwards.

Post# 3688 , Reply# 5   11/8/2006 at 16:50 (4,726 days old) by vinvac (Dubuque IA)        
Air-Way

vinvac's profile picture
Don't rule out the Air-Way. It is a solid built metal machine with great filtration. Simple design, nice hose, great powerhead, long cord and has an optional turbo tool that would work great on stairs, furniture and in the car.

I would not trade it for a central vac or any of the plastic bodied machines. Personally central vac is a pain to use. The hose is always in the way, heavy due to its length. Plus the fact that everytime your at the far end of the room it is caught on something on the other end of the room or tangled in a chair, end table ect.

The vacuum gets used for every day at my house and used for
everything, in fact I don't believe I have used a broom or dustmop in years.

Even though the Air-Way is an all metal machine it is very easy to handle (not heavy to carry) and follows behind the user very well.

Just my thoughts

Morgan


Post# 3689 , Reply# 6   11/8/2006 at 17:01 (4,726 days old) by andy (Boston, MA)        
Plus

The Airway now has a quiet drive power nozzle. I'm thinking of bringing them into the store. However I REALLY REALLY wish they would put a decent handle across the top. Like the Sani-Clean. I had a Signature Series in my house for a few months, and I just stopped using it because every time I wanted to carry it up the stairs, I had to grab that tiny little handle at the bag end, and with my huge hands, it wasn't very comfortable. Also, here's a small picture of the Car Clean Set, which as you can see, has a hose end that's great for attachment use.

Post# 3697 , Reply# 7   11/8/2006 at 20:29 (4,726 days old) by swingette ()        
andy

i wish you were able to tell us about the full-size Sebo powernozzle. it seems quite different in design to the smaller felix-style you mention. no doubt it performs differently.

Post# 3698 , Reply# 8   11/8/2006 at 20:37 (4,726 days old) by andy (Boston, MA)        
Yes....

I need to just order one actually. I've only tried it at the VDTA a couple of times. I loved the feel of it. The Felix brushroll has more bristles, though. It uses a brushroll like that of the X series uprights.

The ET-C powerhead (which is L shaped like the Lux) uses a single brushroll strip which is changeable.

The ET-H powerhead is kinda small for my taste. I haven't used one of these extensively either. From what I've heard from my fellow dealers, the Felix head or the ET-C are better choices


Post# 3699 , Reply# 9   11/8/2006 at 20:42 (4,726 days old) by magic-clean (FL-GA)        
Red Velvet

Recently, we've welcomed a Miele Red Velvet into our home to replace our 6 yr. Miele Platinum that I had a love-hate relationship with for a while. (Thats another story for another day) The Red Velvet performs very nicely for all surfaces; especially hardwood floors. It is really comfortable to use and follows you around in a well behaved manner. The new 236 powerbrush cleans plush carpet thoroughly. The power control on the hose handle is most convenient as is the pause feature for the wands. The Intensive clean dust bags and hepa filter keeps the exhaust airflow fresh.

Leslie



Post# 3700 , Reply# 10   11/9/2006 at 00:28 (4,726 days old) by bimmer740 (Long Island, New York)        
Riccar

bimmer740's profile picture
Does anyone know who makes the power nozzles for Riccar/Simplicity? I would like to find out some more information on these power nozzles since the Simplicity web site info is very limited. Anyone know how well they clean? My only concern is that the metal plate on the bottom can scratch the wood floors. Any info is greatly appriciated!
-Steven


Post# 3702 , Reply# 11   11/9/2006 at 07:11 (4,725 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        
Riccar

countryguy's profile picture
Personally I would not and do not use a power nozzle on bare floors even with the brush turned off. I prefer to use a floor nozzle especially designed for floors.

Gary


Post# 3703 , Reply# 12   11/9/2006 at 07:14 (4,725 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

countryguy's profile picture
Steven, Andy et al, thanks for all your comments - much appreciated. I'd still like to try out the Miele Capricorn (or Jupiter as it is called here in Canada - same model no. but different colour) but unfortunately the vac shop had none in stock and like I said, he is not going to carry Miele anymore.

Gary


Post# 3704 , Reply# 13   11/9/2006 at 07:14 (4,725 days old) by bigbubbacain ()        
Riccar power nozzle.

This is made for Riccar/Simplicity by a private source, an Asian company which makes and sells parts for manufacturers the way Wessel-Werke makes the SEB power nozzles for Miele. This nozzle is also very similar to what is on the Kenmore Iridium canister. I guess what I mean to say is these manufacturers make O.E.M. parts for the vacuum industry. and darn good ones too. I think Sebo's power nozzles might be made in house by Sebo, but I'm not sure.

Post# 3705 , Reply# 14   11/9/2006 at 09:41 (4,725 days old) by dysonman ()        
Riccar/Simplicity power heads

The power head (as well as the vacuum) is made by LG Corp. in Korea. Just like the Kenmore Iridium, which is a far better vacuum since it doesn't lose suction and doesn't require bags or filters. I sell Miele, Sebo, Metropolitan, Rainbow, Dyson, etc. and the best canister I've used (ever) has got to be the Kenmore Iridium. What a fantastic cleaner, and at only $449.

Post# 3715 , Reply# 15   11/9/2006 at 12:56 (4,725 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        
Kenmore Iridium

countryguy's profile picture
I don't think it is available here in Canada. At least I didn't see it on the Sears.ca website.

Post# 3717 , Reply# 16   11/9/2006 at 13:21 (4,725 days old) by dysonman ()        
Kenmore Iridium

It's for sale at Sears.com I bought mine in May as a birthday present to myself, since it used Dyson's technology AND was a canister. What a surprise to find out the Power Nozzle was the best I've ever used, and the machine itself was so good at keeping in the dust. I brought it to the meeting in June, where it WON a BLUE RIBBON against many other cleaners. Interestingly, while the Hoover Dial A Matics and Portables sent the test 'dust' flying into the air (where people seated in front had to breath it), the Kenmore Iridium kept it all inside, NOT clogging the filter, kept out of the way in the bottom of the clear bin. Even after 2 cups of the test 'dust' had been inhaled, the machine had ALL its suction, way very easy to empty, and I've STILL not cleaned the pre-motor filter (and I use the Iridium once a week on a three story home).

Post# 3723 , Reply# 17   11/9/2006 at 14:42 (4,725 days old) by talktotravis ()        
Dysonman

Not to get off-topic but I'm curious as to how the new MotorHead compares with the Iridium--I know you may be limited on what you can say, but I'm wondering if I should buy the Iridium or hold off for the release of the MotorHead (unfortunately, budget constraints say I can't get both).

Post# 3753 , Reply# 18   11/10/2006 at 02:27 (4,724 days old) by compactc9 ()        
Riccar made by Daewoo...

the Riccar canisters are actually made by Daewoo, not LG.

Post# 3754 , Reply# 19   11/10/2006 at 02:58 (4,724 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I have tried the three machines in question-at present I have the Meile Red Velvet.Its a nice unit-the power nozzle is very good-and adjustable.I rule out any powernozzle that can't be adjusted.I feel the Riccar 1800 powernozzle is the best out there.That one almost has the vibrating-beating ability of an upright.and the brushes on the metal roll can be changed to suit your carpet.And of course they can be replaced when worn.The Riccar 1800 uses a Filtrete bag like the meile.In fact Meile is said to be Riccar's closest competitor.The Meile Red Velvet hose handle is AWKWARD to use with the hand tools.the Riccars is easier.Same with the Sebo C-3.All three machines have adjustable speeds.

Post# 3936 , Reply# 20   11/13/2006 at 11:59 (4,721 days old) by dysonman ()        

I like the new MotorHead very much. Will be displaying it at the upcoming Mini Meet in December. The Kenmore (LG) Iridium is a fantastic machine. But I would DEFINATELY wait for the new MotorHead to launch in March.




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