Tradition

Hi Les,

Tradition Tubes are the narrowest of the lot.
Unless your Sentria II Tube fitted without modification, straight onto your Tradition Emptor, then the Bag-Topper will not fit. They are a fair bit narrower.
That's why most conversions involve drilling and re-sealing the Tradition Emptor to take a later, wider tube.

HEPA bags aren't available for these earlier models. That's a Manufacturer's restriction to sell the latest, greatest vacuums and bags. If they were all backwardly-compatible, no-one would pay �1,000 for an Avaliar, when a Classic would do. You won't find Gillette five-blade Turbo Razorblades to fit your old razor handle, either.

I tried the wider Legend II Emptor, Tube, and HEPA Bag assembly on my Tradition. Didn't notice any difference. But our UK Traditions run at high speed constantly. We don't have the slow=head, fast=tube, switching you have Stateside. So we have no loss of suction with the narrower tube. I suspect the narrow tube actually speeds-up airflow (venturi effect) and carries heavier particles to the bag.

If you don't have allergies, I'd suggest there's no need for HEPA (actually pseudo HEPA-Like). HEPA must reduce airflow? (smaller perforations catch smaller particles), but that's a trade-off. You get nothing for free. The airflow is restricted further still. Heavier particles must be left behind in the carpet as a result of slower air. Reminds me of the Tetley Tea Bags 'breakthrough' with finer perforations. They were using more tea dust instead of leaves!

Some say they prefer the cleaner, dust-free, Motor-Housing. I was the first to see inside mine for forty years. I don't care what will be in there by the year 2059.

One explanation offered for narrow Tradition Tubes, was that early single-ply bags burst under high pressure. No. They're constrained by a strong cloth bag. It works like a tyre innertube.

There's a fair bit of supposition, guesswork, and myth surrounding these machines, and bags. You'll need to form your own opinion and conclusions. Personally, I feel there's a lot of marketing hype here, to create a demand for disposable bags. They're losing the war to bagless machines.

I have the Tradition, Heritage, and Legend. Compared them all. I've chosen to keep mine all-original, unmodified, and stick with standard paper bags. When those run out and are no longer available, I have my own reusable inner bag which will last for ever. Just like our old Electrolux.

The best upgrade was the new Roller and Ribbed Drivebelt.


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Post# 411888 7/22/2019 at 13:38 (1,731 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Quick question. I know tradition takes type 1 tube heritage takes type 2 tube. I have 2 questions. I have put a sentria 2 fill tube on tradition. Will the tradition type 1 bag holder fit on bigger fill tube. Is there any type 1 bags that are HEPA?. Thanks Les

Post# 411916 , Reply# 1 7/22/2019 at 21:14 (1,731 days old) by aaron158 (Canada)
Checkrate/Likes 1 with the sentria tube the bottom part that goes on the boot is bigger however the top part that holds the bag adapter i believe is the same all all the g series tubes. also that part of tube is rubber so i mean if zip the zip ties down as tight as u can it should snug it down it there's any gaps u could fill it in with maybe like spray foam if that don't cut it u could also add like tape or something. but question is if ur not going to upgrade it with the f bag adapter there's not really much point in switching out the tube for the newer tube unless its damaged and u have to switch the tube anyway.

Post# 411918 , Reply# 2 7/22/2019 at 22:33 (1,731 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Adaptor* I would use bigger tubing and I was wondering if tradition adapter would fit the tube. I like the bag adaptor set up. It like putting exhaust on a car. Heritage and all tubing is different circumstances that's why there are so many bag adaptors. I like the style and looks of original bag adaptor. If it doesn't fit it's gone. Use zip ties there are 2 places for them. Les

Post# 411922 , Reply# 3 7/23/2019 at 02:16 (1,730 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs)
Checkrate/Likes I've never seen nor even heard of good bags like HEPA for Kirby Tradition.

Post# 411947 , Reply# 4 7/23/2019 at 16:33 (1,730 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Les, Tradition Tubes are the narrowest of the lot. Unless your Sentria II Tube fitted without modification, straight onto your Tradition Emptor, then the Bag-Topper will not fit. They are a fair bit narrower. That's why most conversions involve drilling and re-sealing the Tradition Emptor to take a later, wider tube. HEPA bags aren't available for these earlier models. That's a Manufacturer's restriction to sell the latest, greatest vacuums and bags. If they were all backwardly-compatible, no-one would pay �1,000 for an Avaliar, when a Classic would do. You won't find Gillette five-blade Turbo Razorblades to fit your old razor handle, either. I tried the wider Legend II Emptor, Tube, and HEPA Bag assembly on my Tradition. Didn't notice any difference. But our UK Traditions run at high speed constantly. We don't have the slow=head, fast=tube, switching you have Stateside. So we have no loss of suction with the narrower tube. I suspect the narrow tube actually speeds-up airflow (venturi effect) and carries heavier particles to the bag. If you don't have allergies, I'd suggest there's no need for HEPA (actually pseudo HEPA-Like). HEPA must reduce airflow? (smaller perforations catch smaller particles), but that's a trade-off. You get nothing for free. The airflow is restricted further still. Heavier particles must be left behind in the carpet as a result of slower air. Reminds me of the Tetley Tea Bags 'breakthrough' with finer perforations. They were using more tea dust instead of leaves! Some say they prefer the cleaner, dust-free, Motor-Housing. I was the first to see inside mine for forty years. I don't care what will be in there by the year 2059. One explanation offered for narrow Tradition Tubes, was that early single-ply bags burst under high pressure. No. They're constrained by a strong cloth bag. It works like a tyre innertube. There's a fair bit of supposition, guesswork, and myth surrounding these machines, and bags. You'll need to form your own opinion and conclusions. Personally, I feel there's a lot of marketing hype here, to create a demand for disposable bags. They're losing the war to bagless machines. I have the Tradition, Heritage, and Legend. Compared them all. I've chosen to keep mine all-original, unmodified, and stick with standard paper bags. When those run out and are no longer available, I have my own reusable inner bag which will last for ever. Just like our old Electrolux. The best upgrade was the new Roller and Ribbed Drivebelt.

Post# 411948 , Reply# 5 7/23/2019 at 17:19 (1,730 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Hey* The tradition emtor where fill tube meets plastic I simply drilled a hole attached a pic pipe glued altogether and fill tube topper is sentria 2. I make adaptors for emtors and use sentria 2 topper. I don't use Kirby fill tube I found one I like better. I have a fill tube and adaptor on my classic emtor. I have a heritage 2 13 and I put sentria 2 fill tube on the heritage bag setup. I have a few asseblies for emtors. I have a d80 bag setup and a 510 bag with setup all taking sentria 2 fill tubes. Bags. I also have f&g adapter for 500 series a f@g for d80 series and a tradition f&g. The f&g are for tests only not daily use. Thanks for your help. Les

Post# 411950 , Reply# 6 7/23/2019 at 17:49 (1,730 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom)
Checkrate/Likes Are you finding in your tests, that performance is improved in any way? Is that why you're looking for a Style-1 Tradition HEPA bag?

Post# 411960 , Reply# 7 7/23/2019 at 22:56 (1,730 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Hmmm* I was hoping for HEPA bag. The adaptor doesn't fit I love the tradition and the bag adaptor is best one they made. In being made I mean design is similar to riccar/Miele and cannister vacuums where it holds bag securely. I tested I got 131 cfm no bag 125-128 cfm with HEPA bag. It's about 2-2.5% cfm reduction. Tom was 4500 with bag 4350 without bag. F&g was 20-40% loss of cfm. The type 1 bag was 20-25%, less cfm than with no bag. The motor was running hotter 4600-4800 rpms. So HEPA bag is best option. Shakeout bag yielded same cfm as no bag but as bag filled loss of cfm to 20%. The hepa stayed same cfm even with bag 3/4 full. The motor sounds sweet. With bag setup amodel fan you can just hear the airflow from vacuum. So HEPA bags yield best performance. I tested my d80 sentria 2 bag assembelly I was pulling 128-132 cfm. I tested sanatronic 7 it was pulling 95-104cfm. My 3 amp 509 was pulling high 80s. With the metal fan and everything is tuned up the sound of motor and metal fan was awesome. Les

Post# 412744 , Reply# 8 8/14/2019 at 19:38 (1,708 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Les, Another option would be to fit a reusable Topper to a Hepa bag. That way you'd keep your Tradition's original unmodified Sani-Emptor, Fill-Tube, and Top Bracket. That's what I'm doing with mine. Just undo four screws, Dremel the opening to form an oval shape, and take the Rubber Gasket from a Kirby Style#1 bag. The two black plastic plates simply sandwich the bag and gasket. You'd need to refit your reusable Topper to each new bag, but that's not too often, and its only four screws. View Full Size

Post# 412746 , Reply# 9 8/14/2019 at 19:47 (1,708 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)
Checkrate/Likes *Rowdy141* Alan, What I see there is an all-original white Style 1 disposable bag! ~Ben

Post# 412748 , Reply# 10 8/14/2019 at 21:06 (1,708 days old) by Rowdy141 (United Kingdom)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Hi Ben, Oh yes, I have quite a few of the Style #1 bags. Three Traditions, each came with packets and packets of unopened Kirby paper bags. Amazing. I guess they either stocked up, or preferred to use the shake-out cloth bag? One Tradition I bought last week for �5, has all mint, unused tools! They paid �1,000 for it in 1981, stored it all unused for forty years, then sold the lot for �5. 😁 Alan

Post# 412757 , Reply# 11 8/14/2019 at 23:02 (1,708 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)
Checkrate/Likes *Nice* Hey I like the setup it keeps what I like and doesn't bog the motor down. Thank you so much. Les