Thread Number: 37829  /  Tag: Pre-1950 Vacuum Cleaners
P.A. Geier Model 83
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Post# 403264   12/29/2018 at 09:34 by Ron6519 (East Williston, NY)        

I'm trying to take the motor apart to clean and service it. Is there some secret disassembly process I'm missing? I've removed the brush caps and springs. The two set screws, front and back and the wires. It looks like the plate behind the front impeller needs to be removed to pull the internals out. Is this a friction set plate or are there fasteners that need to be removed?

Thanks
Ron


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Post# 403265 , Reply# 1   12/29/2018 at 10:59 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hey

lesinutah's profile picture
I have a little older than yours royal/pa geier. If you have a brush roll it's different.
The cap on yours pop it off. If your nozzle has a wooden strip with agitation strip on back side of the model it's the same.
The wooden agitation brush is nailed on with 4 flat head nails. Work left to right pry slightly raising a 1/4" and you see first nail. If I remember it may have felt washer. One nail at a time not snapping wood remember this vacuum is maybe 90 plus years old. Once nails are removed comes next step.
The front of the nozzle you twist clock wise 45 degrees. Say from 3 o'clock position to 6 o'clock position. There should be a groove and the nozzle comes right off.
Next on backside there is I believe 4 flat head screws (Phillip head was not yet invented) take those 4 screws out and don't lose anything your not going to find replacement. Once those 4 screws are taken off the fan housing will come apart.
To take fan off I took pics of mine as it's to this point. I have taken fan off but put back on until I work on it again. Behind fan are a couple of air vents. Use a hard plastic Bic pen to Lodge in and hold armature blades from moving. I believe it is counter clock wise is direction you spin fan. If it's not budging get wd 40 spray benind the fan and in vent hole on armature shaft. There is a bearing behind fan between bearing plate and fan. If you spray there it's helpful. Let it sit 10 mins. Put Bic pen in position and the fan will twist off. Now you have bearing plate. I don't know if this is true but it helped me. The screws holding bearing plate clean off with degreaser or with steel wool. Polish the screw tops. It strengthens them.
Take I believe 4 screws off bearing plate. If you pull on armature shaft upwards it should pop up the plate.
Once armature is out with bearing plate you see the motor. I'd take a pic so you know how it goes back together.
If there is a circular piece with 4 screws take screws out. Notice below that plate each screw has a very small spacer do not lose those.
You see field coil take those 2 screws out. Before taking all the way out notice where wires from coil go and what there connected to.
Once field coil is out and you disconnected the wires you will have 2 wires from carbon brush housing one from each housing. You will need needle nose pliers. The carbon brush wires are clipped on to the brush housing with u u shaped end. The fork side of the u(or 3 sides of the 4 are the piece). The side with no piece opposite of that I the fork portion. You pull the fork away from the side with no bracket. You pull it away in straight motion and it will come off. Do this to both but keep track of wires.
There may be 2 screws holding carbon brush housing in. You would remove those. The last 2 wires go to outside of housing. There attached by 2posts either having a nut or nut and acorn nut or both acorn nut and nut. It may have a washer also. Mine had a black plastic cap popped off exposing 2 posts. Take off nut acorn washer etc. The wires are attached with (explaining is hard sorry if words are weird I'm describing best I can)
The wires have a circular wire connection. That should slide off. After taking wires off I put back washer and all hardware on to post so they don't get lost.
Now in the bottom of the motor housing is the bearing oil port all royal/pa giers have. It has 2 screw maybe 3 take those out. This may make o bearing oil port come free. If it doesn't I believe 3 more screws are left take those out and now your motor housing is completely empty.
I'm posting pic of fan housing off and vent where you put pen to stop armature from spinning to twist off fan.


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Post# 403266 , Reply# 2   12/29/2018 at 11:44 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Pics

lesinutah's profile picture
I have a newer model I'm going to take pics of.
Pic 1 farthest is model I believe to be similar to yours. Closest is 245 1949 vacuum I almost have finished.
2. This is posts on let's call it geier model.
3. This is 245 wire set up with plate taken off.
4. 245 with wires from handle to motor housing
5 I'm pointing at location of the height adjustment would be for geier. But if you can tell geier has a single wheel and 245 has 2 wheels.
6 is 245 pointing to same thing
7 is geier model and above it is 245 bearing plate. I believe both bearing plates are similar
8 this is the circular piece that sits above coil and below bearing plate.
9. This is 245 carbon brush housing. Notice the wires are soldered on. So there is no u clip holding in just black caps and a screw in another pic you will see.
10. Notice 6 screw locations. 4 outside ones hold coil in place the 2 others are above carbon brush hole holding in housing from prior pic. The screws barely hold in housing it makes a small less than 1/16 of an inch hole in housing. The point I'm getting at it is tighten just enough to hold housing in screwing any further you will ruin brush housing.
11 this is coil and in bottom of housing is location for coil lines up and is attached with long screws. The bottom 2 are the same.
12 this is 245 housing with 6 screw holes 2 in carbon brush housing and 4 for coil.


Now in previous post I mentioned at bottom of the housing a grease bearing piece. There is no grease/oiling spout. In pic of the bearing plate you see the see oil spout on bearing plate. It's pic 7. The geier model has a screw in the pic. The screw is what holds spout in. So behind the fan is bearing plate screws those screws and the screw in pic 7 needs taken out before bearing plate will pop off.
I'll post a thread of the geier model I received from Nemo in Pennsylvania. I believe it's 1918-1933. I believe 1923 is build year. I'm not positive because I have not done anything more than take fan and bearing plate on putting them back on until I work on it again.
I'll find thread of me acquiring vacuum.
I will see if I have any more pics of it I'll post.
But this should help you alot.
Les


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Post# 403269 , Reply# 3   12/29/2018 at 12:04 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Royal 98

lesinutah's profile picture
That is make of my old royal. I'm posting link of vacuum Nemo sent me.
Les


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lesinutah's LINK


Post# 403274 , Reply# 4   12/29/2018 at 13:29 by Phaeton (Los Angeles )        

phaeton's profile picture
Ron and Les,
Here are some other disassembly pictures of a Royal Model 129 that I took after I got the Royal and sent them to a friend taking their Royal apart the first time.
Nice Royal Ron, good luck to you.


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Post# 403276 , Reply# 5   12/29/2018 at 13:59 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hey

lesinutah's profile picture
That's a little older than 245 but my model 98 doesn't have a brush roll. But the wiring was attached the same style. Inside 245 looks almost identical. I don't know I'd use a screwdriver. I took mine too a vacuum shop he lodged a pen in. I tried screw driver it would have bent armature blades. I don't even know how he got a pen to work I was just glad to have no ruined armature.
I'm not sure if his has a brush roll or not.
But thanks for pics. Both my vacuums were already in asseo. I have pics of my taking apart 98 and 245 there archived on my Google drive.
Very helpful thanks again.
Les


Post# 403412 , Reply# 6   1/1/2019 at 14:39 by Ron6519 (East Williston, NY)        

Ron and Les,
Thanks for the detailed photos of the steps, they were key. The rubber drive band shaft coming off was the tripping point. I'll try the disassembly tomorrow.
Two issues I see:
1.When I removed the caps to the spring loaded brushes, both the brushes stayed in the chamber. Good possibility they're used up and might need replacements.
2. Agitator/beater bar was missing. Will definitely need that part. The end clips look familiar so I might be able to fabricate a replacement if I can't find one.

Thanks again for the path forward and have a Happy New Year
Ron


Post# 403432 , Reply# 7   1/1/2019 at 20:22 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hey

lesinutah's profile picture
When you take out armature make sure to take pics so you know where things go. My carbon brushes springs came off leaving carbon in motor. I'm assembling but not exact on carbon brush are in right location.
I'm not sure either Amazon or eBay has square end brush roll.
I'm ready for reassemble 245 but i got a rainbow e 2 type 12 for $30 trying to do a quick flip on it. I'm finishing up polishing 560 today.
Just finishing vacuums o can sale first. But brush roll is easy to get.
Les


Post# 403466 , Reply# 8   1/2/2019 at 13:34 by Ron6519 (East Williston, NY)        

I was able to take the motor completely apart thanks to you guys. The carbon bushings are fine. The problem was that they were stuck in the shaft due to some very oily grime. Once I clean out the shaft they should slide as they were engineered to.
I have a few questions:
1 There seems to be two lubrication ports on either end of the motor housing that coincides with brass bushings. What sort of lubrication goes in there, a light 20w household oil?

2.What would you recommend as a cleaning solution for the interior motor housing. A solvent like mineral spirits or soaking it in soapy water. The grime in this is oily and has a grease like quality.

Thanks
Ron


Post# 403473 , Reply# 9   1/2/2019 at 15:24 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hey

lesinutah's profile picture
I used an engine degreaser. I also used my power sprayer but dish soap and water would work fine. Spray wipe rinse gets most of it off.
I have also used barkeeper's friend.
The lubricant I use this. I believe saw 5w 30 works but this and WD-40 for minor can't reach locations.
Les


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Post# 403559 , Reply# 10   1/4/2019 at 23:06 by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
If you're talking about ancient caked-on grease and filth, I doubt soap and water would get it. Unless it was either very very hot (and allowed to soak), or used with a pressure washer, or with a lot of elbow grease. I'll second the engine degreaser. But it will still need to 'soak' for a little while and then be scrubbed with a brush or something. Follow it up with brake cleaner, but make sure it's not an acetone-heavy brake cleaner, at least not if you'll be getting it on the windings, as the acetone may take the varnish off.

Actually, you could just wash with brake cleaner (or mineral spirits) to get the oily residue off of the brush holders and commutator, and leave the caked-on old filth alone, if you wanted a shortcut.

Also, 20w or 30w oil should be fine, it's not going to be particular about it.


Post# 403560 , Reply# 11   1/4/2019 at 23:29 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hey

lesinutah's profile picture
If you have a barkeepers friend the foam type. It works good. I'm talking about once coil is taken out. I took mine out and used pressure washer. I kid you not inside the vacuum chamber looked brand new. I sprayed armature and coil with electrical cleaner from Wal Mart. I didn't want to ruin wiring. Buy look at housing. It's adoninized aluminum with copper. So outside doesn't rust. With my inside this clean. The vacuum is grease and grime free.
He is right on oil I just like that spout thing it makes it easy e grease royals.
Les
I believe my model is 239 instead of 245. It was made in 1949. Meh


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Post# 403605 , Reply# 12   1/5/2019 at 22:13 by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

madman's profile picture
Yeah pressure washer for sure. I used my parts washer to clean my Cadillac motor housing. It's basically a big dishwasher, meant specifically for cleaning grease encrusted aluminum transmission cases. It uses a heated alkaline water cleaning solution, and shoots it at the parts like a big pressure washer. 5 minutes in that thing and anything will sparkle.

Post# 403607 , Reply# 13   1/5/2019 at 22:34 by Lesinutah (Utah)        
Hey

lesinutah's profile picture
It blew the wheels off the royal. I'm going to use it tomorrow. Pressure washer cleans quick. Too bad polishing isn't the same.
Les





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