Thread Number: 37732  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
C2 AirClean microfiber filter cage/bracket
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Post# 402328   12/10/2018 at 20:18 (189 days old) by ilikevacuuming (Cincinnati, OH)        

ilikevacuuming's profile picture
I know it seems like I ask a lot of Miele questions, but here is another one. Does anyone know where I could get the cage/holder for the microfiber AirClean exhaust filter (the sort that comes with a box of bags) online? The c2 that Iím getting comes with a HEPA filter, but I donít need that and I donít want to pay an extra $40. Thanks!




Post# 402347 , Reply# 1   12/10/2018 at 21:28 (189 days old) by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        

kirbylux77's profile picture
That cage/holder is something you would order from your local Miele dealer, & buy separately as a part. Perhaps, if you really don't need the HEPA filtration, maybe you could get the dealer to order the part & include that instead of the HEPA filter? Assuming the filter is boxed, he should simply be able to take it out of the vacuum's packaging, put it on the shelf & sell it as normal stock.

However, I would ONLY get that filter cage if you plan on using only the genuine Original Miele OEM bags, & not generic bags. If you are thinking of using the generic bags, one limitation they have is while the pre-motor filter is good quality, their version of the AirClean filter is nowhere near the same quality as the genuine AirClean filter with Original Miele OEM bags. If that's the case, I would use a aftermarket HEPA filter instead of the generic AirClean filters that come with the bags. They really aren't that expensive, around $10 to $20 dollars on Amazon & Ebay, & while you don't get the same amount of filter paper as the genuine Miele HEPA filter, they are still acceptable & do a good job for the price.

Rob


Post# 402369 , Reply# 2   12/11/2018 at 00:16 (189 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@ilikevacuuming Hey I think you left a similar comment on my channel?
Definitely order the cage from your local Miele dealer. Should be $20-$30
If you use the generic HEPA filters they don't last as long as change them every 6 months instead of a year like you do with the genuine.
Also note that the replacement Miele HEPA filters filter to the older standard HEPA 10 not the newer standard of HEPA 13 filtration.



Post# 402565 , Reply# 3   12/14/2018 at 11:39 (186 days old) by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        
Will

kirbylux77's profile picture
Alex is correct about the filter cage, it should cost somewhere between $20-$40 to purchase from a Miele dealer.

However, I would ignore Alex's advice above about the Miele HEPA filters. Note that in his YouTube videos as "Performance Reviews", he has made it clear he works for a company that is a authorized Miele dealership. Therefore, he has a reason to mislead you about the generic Miele filters, as he & his company benefits if you believe the genuine OEM Original Miele filter is better & buy it from them.

The generic Miele filters WILL last as long as the OEM Original Miele HEPA filter, 1 year. The difference is you get slightly less filter paper, & the generic filters are designed to meet the EN1822 HEPA H12 standard, 99.97% @ 0.03 micron. The OEM Original Miele HEPA filters are designed to meet the revised EN1822 HEPA H13 standard, 99.99% @ 0.01 micron. Realistically, the difference in the size of particles the genuine filters filter down to is so slight, most allergy sufferers will not notice the difference. Also note, Miele is currently, to my knowledge, the ONLY manufacturer that makes a HEPA filter that currently meets the revised EN1822 HEPA H13 standard, all the other companies are making HEPA filters that meet the EN1822 HEPA H12 standard. The only other company that makes a filter which meets the EN1822 HEPA H13 standard is Nilfisk. Their optional ULPA filter for their Museum line of canister vacuums does meet the HEPA H13 standard, & was around years before the revised standard came about.

If you do decide to use generic bags & generic HEPA filter, I would replace it every 2 to 3 years. The reality is with HEPA Cloth bags, whether it be generic or genuine OEM bags from any manufacturer, it's the BAG that does the majority of the filtration in a vacuum. That's why when you open up the bag chamber of a vacuum using a HEPA Cloth bag, it's dust free. All the HEPA filter on the exhaust is really capturing is the motor's carbon dust emissions, & ultra-fine dust particulates the bag cannot capture. Wait until the filter gets really black & dirty, about 2 to 3 years, & then change it, unless you or a member of your family are particularly sensitive to dust.

I have linked to a generic filter below made by HIHEPA. I am currently running this filter in my 2007 Miele S5280 Callisto, & not only does it seal perfectly & appears to have nearly the same amount of filter paper, it looks almost IDENTICAL to the current genuine OEM Original Miele SF HA50 HEPA filter that sells for $50 dollars thru authorized Miele dealers.

Rob

HEPA Filtration standards, for reference:

HEPA H10: Washable HEPA filters typically used in filtered bagless vacuums with a filter in the dirt cup.

HEPA H11: HEPA Cloth bags.

HEPA H12: Exhaust HEPA filters. Former EN1822 filtration standard, 99.97% efficiency at capturing @ 0.03 micron sized particles.

HEPA H13: Exhaust HEPA filters. Current EN1822 filtration standard, 99.99% efficiency at capturing @ 0.01 micron sized particles.




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Post# 402639 , Reply# 4   12/15/2018 at 12:02 (185 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@ilikevacuuming
Keep in mind @kirbylux77 has some personal problem with me . This" lady "is not well and continues to make false accusations.

I have had years of industry experience that I speak from.
It would be ill-advised to go longer then 12 months of regular vacuuming without changing your filter.
It does not benefit me personally What filter you decide to buy .
I would advise against generic bags as the tolerances are too tight on the newer style Motors.
Happy Vacuuming!

@kirbylux77 Stop with the false accusations! You clearly have no idea what I do for a living or who I work for.


Post# 402952 , Reply# 5   12/22/2018 at 13:45 by ilikevacuuming (Cincinnati, OH)        
Alex & Rob

ilikevacuuming's profile picture
I will be using genuine Miele everything. Genuine filters, genuine bags, etc. I believe that no matter what a person buys that they should always use OEM parts (as long as better quality versions arenít available), but you do whatever suits your fancy.

Thanks for all the answers and responses,
Will


Post# 406154 , Reply# 6   3/1/2019 at 14:52 by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        
Alex

kirbylux77's profile picture
"I would advise against generic bags as the tolerances are too tight on the newer style Motors."

So, are you making this statement based on a belief that the generic Miele HEPA Cloth bags leak dust? Look at these photos of the bag chamber of my Miele Callisto. WHERE is the leaking dust that is escaping from the bag to soil the pre-motor filter, get into the motor & cause it to fail? There is NO DUST AT ALL here. And yes, you did make a video showing the generic bags leaking in the C1 HomeCare canisters, but those Miele's were also being used to suck up metal dust & being used in a workshop environment, which would be considered extreme use & abuse. ANY bag, even the Original Miele bag, would fail in that kind of environment picking up those kinds of debris & dirt.

You can make all the false statements you want. We all know you work for a Miele dealership, & you are contractually obligated under the dealer agreement to make certain representations, one of those being to sell only their bags & to advise against using generic bags. And the obvious reason they want you to do that is to sell their own bags & make the profit on them. Besides, we all know that you have CLEARLY demonstrated you are biased towards German made & engineered products. These photos here prove you were WRONG in this thread - and you should be ashamed of yourself thinking you could mislead & fool people into not seeing something so obvious.

Rob








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Post# 406731 , Reply# 7   3/16/2019 at 00:35 by ilikevacuuming (Cincinnati, OH)        
Rob

ilikevacuuming's profile picture
You do have a point about him advising against generic bags because he works/has worked for Miele dealers for many years, but in some of his videos, you can see that the reason for dust getting into the motor was the customer using a generic bag and it bursting/leaking (example video attached). Some generic bags are ok, but mast are crappy. Personally, I think OEM parts should go on anything you purchase.
Will


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Post# 407022 , Reply# 8   3/21/2019 at 14:56 by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        

kirbylux77's profile picture
"Some generic bags are ok, but mast are crappy"

Will, first of all, I respect your decision to use genuine bags if you feel the need to protect your vacuum & keep your warranty valid. In my case, however, any warranty the vacuum had is long expired, so I feel no need to pay a premium for the manufacturer's bags. As for the quality of generic bags, I will respectfully disagree with you. What you are not understanding is it's the bag collar & how the bag is installed that causes dirt leakage, NOT the bag material itself.

Miele generic bags are available in 3 or 5 ply HEPA Cloth material, depending on the price per bag & manufacturer. The amount of bag layers determines the bag's ability to store dust within the bag material, & how quickly the material clogs with dust & reduces the vacuum's suction & airflow. If you ever try to reuse a bag by taking the dirt out thru the bag collar, with a paper microfiltration bag there is very minimal dust left in the bag, but with a HEPA Cloth bag even after you empty it you will notice some dust you cannot get out of the bag. That dust is actually trapped within the bag layers & cannot be removed. That's why you can shake a HEPA Cloth bag & restore the suction & airflow of the vacuum, shaking the bag loosens the dust from within the walls of the bag. Most vacuum manufacturers, such as Sebo, Riccar/Simplicity/Carpet Pro/Fuller Brush, Hoover, Electrolux AB, Aerus Electrolux, Panasonic/Kenmore & Zelmer use 3 ply HEPA Cloth, the exceptions being Lindhaus & Fakir-Nilco which use 5 ply HEPA Cloth, & Miele's 9 ply AirClean HEPA Cloth bag. So right there the Miele generic bag manufacturers are making bags that match the quality of most of the OEM manufacturer's bags.

Take a look again at the video you linked to, "Miele plus s251i Repair Tune up. USA Miele motor history". Notice how all the dust is at the top of the bag compartment on the bag door & the top of the motor housing & there is only a small amount of fine dirt on the bottom of the compartment? That is because the owner used a bag with a cardboard bag collar which did not make proper contact with the bag door tube. There is no discoloration of the bag or any damaged seams, so it is clearly not the fault of the bag material. Also look at the video "Miele S558 Red Velvet Canister Vacuum service & Repair", see how when Alex opens the bag door how the cardboard collar on the bag appears to be warped? This is exactly the reason why I do not recommend using generic Miele bags with cardboard collars - they do not have the rigidity that the plastic IntensiveClean & AirClean collars have to ensure proper contact with the bag door tube & not cause a issue with dirt leakage.

There are other factors besides the bag that can also cause bag leakage. If you look at the videos "Miele C3 s8 Kona "soft carpet" Vacuum Repair" & "Miele Compact C2 Electro+ S6 SDAE0 SDCE0 -Vacuum Cleaner Repair", the cause of the leakage in these vacuums is a bent, warped bag holder. Alex claims in the Electro+ video the generic bag caused the dirt leakage, but in the Kona video it has a genuine Miele AirClean bag installed, so that rules out the bag from being at fault, & using a generic bag also couldn't have caused the damage to the bag holder, in both cases that resulted from the owner abusing & misusing the vacuum.

You might also not be aware that Miele's OEM bags themselves are not perfect. If you read this Vacuumland thread from Gsheen, "Miele bag leakage ??", you will see the Miele HyClean bag in the S7 upright leaking all over the place in the bag chamber, yet the bag is installed perfectly in the cleaner. As he stated in that thread, the dust leakage is CLEARLY coming from the bag material itself leaking. This is the correct & genuine Miele bag for South Africa, the AirClean bags are only for North America, every other part of the world uses the HyClean bags. Also, if you read reply #50 from piano_god, he states he has seen dust leakage from the previous Miele IntensiveClean bags. So, as you can see, under the right conditions even the OEM Miele bags can cause issues.

Finally, take a look at these photos of my Simplicity Gusto. I have modified the vacuum to take Miele GN bags by removing the bag holder & wrapping the bag door tube with clear packer's tape to increase it's diameter. Before installing the bag all that is necessary to do is snip off the bottom of the bag collar & then mount the bag directly on the bag door tube & tuck the bag in as I close the bag door. The bag fits onto the bag door tube VERY TIGHT, there is absolutely NO chance for the bag collar to come loose or move around to cause any issues. The ONLY way there would be any dust leakage whatsoever in this bag chamber is if the HEPA Cloth material of the bag itself was leaking dust. Now - tell me, Will, where is the dust leakage caused by using a generic Miele bag? There is NO DUST AT ALL whatsoever in this bag chamber, on the pre-motor filter, or on the Hepa filter on the exhaust - just carbon dust from the motor.

I think these photos should serve as proof that, when used & installed correctly & with care, generic Miele bags will NOT cause a issue with dust leakage in the bag chamber or on the pre-motor filter. The only advantage the OEM Miele AirClean bags have is they allow the cleaner to maintain suction & airflow much longer, until they are 3/4 full. However, that issue is easily solved with the generic bags by taking them periodically & giving a good vigorous shake to loosen dust inside the bag. While I occasionally use OEM Miele AirClean bags for certain tasks, I cannot justify paying $4.38 per bag for everyday cleaning, when a generic bag for about $1.50 works just as well.

Rob

















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Post# 407026 , Reply# 9   3/21/2019 at 20:07 by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        

kirbylux77's profile picture
"Some generic bags are ok, but mast are crappy"

Will, first of all, I respect your decision to use genuine bags if you feel the need to protect your vacuum & keep your warranty valid. In my case, however, any warranty the vacuum had is long expired, so I feel no need to pay a premium for the manufacturer's bags. As for the quality of generic bags, I will respectfully disagree with you. What you are not understanding is it's the bag collar & how the bag is installed that causes dirt leakage, NOT the bag material itself.

Miele generic bags are available in 3 or 5 ply HEPA Cloth material, depending on the price per bag & manufacturer. The amount of bag layers determines the bag's ability to store dust within the bag material, & how quickly the material clogs with dust & reduces the vacuum's suction & airflow. If you ever try to reuse a bag by taking the dirt out thru the bag collar, with a paper microfiltration bag there is very minimal dust left in the bag, but with a HEPA Cloth bag even after you empty it you will notice some dust you cannot get out of the bag. That dust is actually trapped within the bag layers & cannot be removed. That's why you can shake a HEPA Cloth bag & restore the suction & airflow of the vacuum, shaking the bag loosens the dust from within the walls of the bag. Most vacuum manufacturers, such as Sebo, Riccar/Simplicity/Carpet Pro/Fuller Brush, Hoover, Electrolux AB, Aerus Electrolux, Panasonic/Kenmore & Zelmer use 3 ply HEPA Cloth, the exceptions being Lindhaus & Fakir-Nilco which use 5 ply HEPA Cloth, & Miele's 9 ply AirClean HEPA Cloth bag. So right there the Miele generic bag manufacturers are making bags that match the quality of most of the OEM manufacturer's bags.

Take a look again at the video you linked to, "Miele plus s251i Repair Tune up. USA Miele motor history". Notice how all the dust is at the top of the bag compartment on the bag door & the top of the motor housing & there is only a small amount of fine dirt on the bottom of the compartment? That is because the owner used a bag with a cardboard bag collar which did not make proper contact with the bag door tube. There is no discoloration of the bag or any damaged seams, so it is clearly not the fault of the bag material. Also look at the video "Miele S558 Red Velvet Canister Vacuum service & Repair", see how when Alex opens the bag door how the cardboard collar on the bag appears to be warped? This is exactly the reason why I do not recommend using generic Miele bags with cardboard collars - they do not have the rigidity that the plastic IntensiveClean & AirClean collars have to ensure proper contact with the bag door tube & not cause a issue with dirt leakage.

There are other factors besides the bag that can also cause bag leakage. If you look at the videos "Miele C3 s8 Kona "soft carpet" Vacuum Repair" & "Miele Compact C2 Electro+ S6 SDAE0 SDCE0 -Vacuum Cleaner Repair", the cause of the leakage in these vacuums is a bent, warped bag holder. Alex claims in the Electro+ video the generic bag caused the dirt leakage, but in the Kona video it has a genuine Miele AirClean bag installed, so that rules out the bag from being at fault, & using a generic bag also couldn't have caused the damage to the bag holder, in both cases that resulted from the owner abusing & misusing the vacuum.

You might also not be aware that Miele's OEM bags themselves are not perfect. If you read this Vacuumland thread from Gsheen, "Miele bag leakage ??", you will see the Miele HyClean bag in the S7 upright leaking all over the place in the bag chamber, yet the bag is installed perfectly in the cleaner. As he stated in that thread, the dust leakage is CLEARLY coming from the bag material itself leaking. This is the correct & genuine Miele bag for South Africa, the AirClean bags are only for North America, every other part of the world uses the HyClean bags. Also, if you read reply #50 from piano_god, he states he has seen dust leakage from the previous Miele IntensiveClean bags. So, as you can see, under the right conditions even the OEM Miele bags can cause issues.

Finally, take a look at these photos of my Simplicity Gusto. I have modified the vacuum to take Miele GN bags by removing the bag holder & wrapping the bag door tube with clear packer's tape to increase it's diameter. Before installing the bag all that is necessary to do is snip off the bottom of the bag collar & then mount the bag directly on the bag door tube & tuck the bag in as I close the bag door. The bag fits onto the bag door tube VERY TIGHT, there is absolutely NO chance for the bag collar to come loose or move around to cause any issues. The ONLY way there would be any dust leakage whatsoever in this bag chamber is if the HEPA Cloth material of the bag itself was leaking dust. Now - tell me, Will, where is the dust leakage caused by using a generic Miele bag? There is NO DUST AT ALL whatsoever in this bag chamber, on the pre-motor filter, or on the Hepa filter on the exhaust - just carbon dust from the motor.

I think these photos should serve as proof that, when used & installed correctly & with care, generic Miele bags will NOT cause a issue with dust leakage in the bag chamber or on the pre-motor filter. The only advantage the OEM Miele AirClean bags have is they allow the cleaner to maintain suction & airflow much longer, until they are 3/4 full. However, that issue is easily solved with the generic bags by taking them periodically & giving a good vigorous shake to loosen dust inside the bag. While I occasionally use OEM Miele AirClean bags for certain tasks, I cannot justify paying $4.38 per bag for everyday cleaning, when a generic bag for about $1.50 works just as well.

Rob

















www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bi...


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