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Thread Number: 37659
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Rainbow E2 Platinum Airflow Losses |
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| Post# 401487 11/26/2018 at 21:56 (1,971 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
A bit late, but I just wanted to basically confirm Blackheart's measurements. Obviously, this E2 runs quite a bit better (and uses more power) than his sample.
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| Post# 401490 , Reply# 1 11/26/2018 at 22:00 (1,971 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB) | ||
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| Post# 401494 , Reply# 2 11/26/2018 at 22:14 (1,971 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
Measuring horsepower without measuring torque. | ||
| Post# 401511 , Reply# 3 11/27/2018 at 08:03 (1,970 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Vacuumdevil, I was going to leave your comment alone but
Since you insist in perpetuating a flat out lie about water lift and airwatts, I'm just not going to stand for your shenanigans any longer.
For a proper technical explanation that is 100% mathematically correct, watch this video. Airwatts is a useless spec and manufacturers know it. Without both the airflow and suction curves, that number is completely meaningless. Suction only assists in maintaining airflow over a given distance. It cannot pick up airborn dirt. It is a pressure, not a volume and not a speed. Airflow at the cleaning point (hose if above the floor cleaning) and nozzle (whether powered or not) is the only thing that matters. Airflow can pick up dirt contained in a volume of air and move it. Hence terms like cubic feet per minute. Working water lift is a complete sham and it not used by anyone to measure anything except you. I've proven over and over and over again that high suctions means SQUAT! Manufacturers and vacuum salesman of all sorts have been creating new useless specs since the beginning of time and Airwatts is one of the most egregious offenders to date. Bill | ||
| Post# 401524 , Reply# 4 11/27/2018 at 11:51 (1,970 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY) | ||
Cool | ||
| Post# 401525 , Reply# 5 11/27/2018 at 12:08 (1,970 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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New balance man
@vaclab What you're saying is you refuse to measure a vacuum properly.
I understand there's been some debate about are watts and how to calculate it. Working vacuum aka working water lift is the standard of testing Central Vacuums, after install. Air wants is the standard of measuring the unit itself uninstalled . What are lift is really important to know . You really can't have CFM without a decent amount of water lift . The result will be ending up with something like an Oreck classic vacuum being more powerful than modern Vacuums. I understand you get your rocks off measuring vacuum CFM. But it's pretty much misinformation without at least measuring the water lift . I hope one day that you can understand this. | ||
| Post# 401530 , Reply# 6 11/27/2018 at 14:02 (1,970 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Once Again You're Completely Wrong
Alex,
One day you might understand the Physics and Mathematics behind how vacuum cleaners actually work, but today isn't that day. Your suction contraption is best used to test for leaks in any vacuum system not cleaning power. And since you are completely unable to refute my video and proper definitions of airflow, suction and Airwatts, my point is proven. There is no debate on how to calculate Airwatts, never has been, but it is a useless spec that can never indicate cleaning power. Watch the video. You can have massive suction without airflow and massive airflow without suction. Suction without airflow = clogged vacuum, water pump, etc. Airflow without suction = boxfan, hurricane, etc. Most high suction, lower airflow machines can't deep clean, but high airflow, low suction machines can. Check out my airflow through the carpet tests, the most real world carpet tests for deep cleaning. NOTICE that the very high nozzle suction, low airflow Dyson DC65 only manages 26 CFM and the low suction, high airflow Kirby more than doubles that figure to 57 CFM, hence true deep cleaning is possible on pile carpet. As usual, you have ZERO evidence to prove your point, so your arguments hold no water. Bill | ||
| Post# 401535 , Reply# 7 11/27/2018 at 15:43 (1,970 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
Back to the rainbow | ||
| Post# 401538 , Reply# 8 11/27/2018 at 16:27 (1,970 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Devin, | ||
| Post# 401549 , Reply# 9 11/27/2018 at 20:49 (1,970 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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New Balance Man
@vaclab I have definitely demonstrated that I understand physics behind vacuum cleaners and other things I don't know why that came into question?
There are two separate formulas for air Watts. I don't believe I need to submit any evidence that you refuse to test water lift . You said that yourself. I also understand that you probably can't find/afford a working vacuum gauge. You take yourself way too seriously. Maybe one day we can have a phone/SKYPE conversation , I don't believe it's fair to the rest of vacuum and they keep having these heated discussions. | ||
| Post# 401550 , Reply# 10 11/27/2018 at 21:10 (1,970 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB) | ||
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vaclab | ||
| Post# 401557 , Reply# 12 11/28/2018 at 01:20 (1,970 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
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| Post# 401565 , Reply# 13 11/28/2018 at 07:59 (1,969 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest) | ||
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Minnie baked this just for you Using a cup of her "secret" ingredient. Why don't you have yourself two pieces.
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| Post# 401568 , Reply# 14 11/28/2018 at 09:31 (1,969 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Once Again Alex, You Give Nothing But
Excuses. No evidence, no proof whatsoever.
@vaclab I have definitely demonstrated that I understand physics behind vacuum cleaners and other things I don't know why that came into question? <-- because you still don't understand the difference between airflow and suction. There are two separate formulas for air Watts. =========================================================== Really? What are the two formulas then? There is only one formula for Airwatts. Airwatts = (vacuum suction [inches of water] × air flow [cubic feet per minute])/8.5 Sometimes people may re-arrange that to read: Airwatts = vacuum suction [inches of water] × air flow [cubic feet per minute] x 0.1176 But those are the same formulas. =========================================================== I don't believe I need to submit any evidence that you refuse to test water lift . You said that yourself. <-- Really? When did I ever say that? I also understand that you probably can't find/afford a working vacuum gauge. <-- Can't afford a gauge that was made from a common hardware PVC fitting with a washer stuck in one end? What are you smoking out there in Colorado? These are easy and cheap to fabricate. BUT they only are good to test for leaks (suction loss), and nothing else as previously stated. You take yourself way too seriously. <-- No, you do. I've always been serious about the perpetuation of truth in testing and advertising. I post tests that are scientifically sound (follow the scientific method) for all to see. I love exposing the fallacies and lies of manufacturers. Maybe one day we can have a phone/SKYPE conversation , I don't believe it's fair to the rest of vacuum and they keep having these heated discussions. <-- If you wanted to contact me, send me an email as my address has been available to members since 2014. Guess you never looked. I can also surmise you didn't watch/understand the videos, especially the Rainbow E2 one in which I specifically test airflow and SUCTION (at the canister and hose end). Lastly, the title of this thread is airflow losses, not suction losses, so why post suction measurements? People can simply watch the video, obviously you chose not to. Bill | ||
| Post# 401570 , Reply# 15 11/28/2018 at 09:51 (1,969 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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conpactc9guy
I've been looking for a Compact/Tristar machine for sometime, but they are very rare here (never seen one used in 4 years so far). Blackheart has tested an EXL and discovered it has 66 nozzle CFM and 97 hose CFM. I don't know what an AP200 can do.
Remember, suction cannot clean as it is only a pressure (force). In order to pick up small, dry particulate, you need a volume of air moving at a speed (CFM). Bill | ||
| Post# 401586 , Reply# 16 11/28/2018 at 15:50 (1,969 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
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Tristar | ||
| Post# 401590 , Reply# 17 11/28/2018 at 16:32 (1,969 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England) | ||
Thanks Bill | ||
| Post# 401594 , Reply# 18 11/28/2018 at 17:20 (1,969 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB) | ||
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Blackheart ( | ||
| Post# 401598 , Reply# 19 11/28/2018 at 17:33 (1,969 days old) by royalfan (Chicago) | ||
Cankles 🤦♂️ | ||
| Post# 401618 , Reply# 20 11/28/2018 at 22:46 (1,969 days old) by Mike811 (Finland) | ||
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| Post# 410921 , Reply# 21 6/26/2019 at 19:26 (1,759 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
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Sorry for digging this thread up!
Ever since Bill's testing i've been wondering if there was something wrong with my Rainbow I've off and on been looking for information on it and I found out a few things.
1. My E2 black is rated for 9.5 amps when it's only the machine according to the ratings on it. 2. The fans are SUPER narrow. I'm not sure i've ever seen a fan this narrow before. I can see why this unit has such a low showing in terms of airflow. I thought I should try cleaning out the fans since I knew they had build up in them to see if my airflow would reach 4.5 like it has in youtube videos i've seen. I placed a popsicle stick over part of it to show it's size. Another collector told me the fans were revised at some point but I appear to have gotten the "bad" ones 3. This Amazon listing www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Mo... The power nozzle was improved but it seems as though the main unit was a step backwards at least initially, if and when they revised the fans it may have surpassed the previous unit. It's VERY strange to me that a company like rainbow might take a step backwards.
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Post# 410928 , Reply# 22 6/26/2019 at 23:24 (1,759 days old) by rivstg1  (colorado springs) |
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wow! look at that wide 'head' | ||
| Post# 411772 , Reply# 24 7/20/2019 at 14:25 (1,735 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio) | ||
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Try Performing The Power Calculation Manually
Some machines, due to inductive reactance and possibly other factors can skew power calculations considerably.
Remember, easy as "PIE". Power (P) equals Current (I) times Voltage (E). Yeah, don't get me started on why current is "I" and Voltage is "E", but the most important thing here is recognizing we're doing an "AC" rather than "DC" reading. Run your Rainbow and write down what your loaded line voltage and current draw are then multiply both together. My E2 Gold and Platinum Blue specifically state 120V @ 12 Amps and bumps to 12.5 Amps with the matching power nozzle. This would mean 1440 Watts with a hose and 1500 Watts using the PN. I wasn't aware of the newer Rainbows significantly decreasing their rated power. This may mean lower performance, but who knows without proper testing. So 9.5A x 120V = 1140W for hose mode and 10.5A x 120V = 1260W for PN mode. If you're running in the 800W-900W range for the canister/hose, something is amiss. Bill
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