Thread Number: 37659  /  Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Rainbow E2 Platinum Airflow Losses
[Down to Last]

Vacuumland's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items
Post# 401487   11/26/2018 at 21:56 (590 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        

vaclab's profile picture
A bit late, but I just wanted to basically confirm Blackheart's measurements. Obviously, this E2 runs quite a bit better (and uses more power) than his sample.

  View Full Size

Post# 401490 , Reply# 1   11/26/2018 at 22:00 (590 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB)        

compactc9guy's profile picture
so around 40 cfm from vacuum base to PN hum not bad i guess i never did a test like this on my vacuum then again there all vintage .

Post# 401494 , Reply# 2   11/26/2018 at 22:14 (590 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        
Measuring horsepower without measuring torque.

vacuumdevil's profile picture
Why do not measure working water lift or air Watts?

For that matter water lift is important as well.

Post# 401511 , Reply# 3   11/27/2018 at 08:03 (590 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        
Vacuumdevil, I was going to leave your comment alone but

vaclab's profile picture
Since you insist in perpetuating a flat out lie about water lift and airwatts, I'm just not going to stand for your shenanigans any longer.

For a proper technical explanation that is 100% mathematically correct, watch this video.

Airwatts is a useless spec and manufacturers know it. Without both the airflow and suction curves, that number is completely meaningless.

Suction only assists in maintaining airflow over a given distance. It cannot pick up airborn dirt. It is a pressure, not a volume and not a speed.

Airflow at the cleaning point (hose if above the floor cleaning) and nozzle (whether powered or not) is the only thing that matters. Airflow can pick up dirt contained in a volume of air and move it. Hence terms like cubic feet per minute.

Working water lift is a complete sham and it not used by anyone to measure anything except you. I've proven over and over and over again that high suctions means SQUAT!

Manufacturers and vacuum salesman of all sorts have been creating new useless specs since the beginning of time and Airwatts is one of the most egregious offenders to date.


Post# 401524 , Reply# 4   11/27/2018 at 11:51 (590 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
yea - that HEPA is toast.....glad you put a new one in and glad it blew zero. Thanks for giving us all those stats... I will never give up my Rainbow...

Post# 401525 , Reply# 5   11/27/2018 at 12:08 (590 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        
New balance man

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@vaclab What you're saying is you refuse to measure a vacuum properly.
I understand there's been some debate about are watts and how to calculate it.

Working vacuum aka working water lift is the standard of testing Central Vacuums, after install.
Air wants is the standard of measuring the unit itself uninstalled .

What are lift is really important to know . You really can't have CFM without a decent amount of water lift .
The result will be ending up with something like an Oreck classic vacuum being more powerful than modern Vacuums.

I understand you get your rocks off measuring vacuum CFM. But it's pretty much misinformation without at least measuring the water lift .

I hope one day that you can understand this.

Post# 401530 , Reply# 6   11/27/2018 at 14:02 (590 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        
Once Again You're Completely Wrong

vaclab's profile picture

One day you might understand the Physics and Mathematics behind how vacuum cleaners actually work, but today isn't that day. Your suction contraption is best used to test for leaks in any vacuum system not cleaning power. And since you are completely unable to refute my video and proper definitions of airflow, suction and Airwatts, my point is proven.

There is no debate on how to calculate Airwatts, never has been, but it is a useless spec that can never indicate cleaning power. Watch the video.

You can have massive suction without airflow and massive airflow without suction.

Suction without airflow = clogged vacuum, water pump, etc.
Airflow without suction = boxfan, hurricane, etc.

Most high suction, lower airflow machines can't deep clean, but high airflow, low suction machines can. Check out my airflow through the carpet tests, the most real world carpet tests for deep cleaning.

NOTICE that the very high nozzle suction, low airflow Dyson DC65 only manages 26 CFM and the low suction, high airflow Kirby more than doubles that figure to 57 CFM, hence true deep cleaning is possible on pile carpet.

As usual, you have ZERO evidence to prove your point, so your arguments hold no water.


Post# 401535 , Reply# 7   11/27/2018 at 15:43 (590 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Back to the rainbow

blackheart's profile picture
That's interesting. Makes me wonder if there is something wrong with mine. Granted it's a 5 CFM difference at the nozzle.

Post# 401538 , Reply# 8   11/27/2018 at 16:27 (590 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        

vaclab's profile picture
Did you happen to notice the power usage difference? Yours was 1013 Watts and mine (Thomas') tested at 1398 Watts both without the PN running. That's around a 38% difference, which is significant.


Post# 401549 , Reply# 9   11/27/2018 at 20:49 (590 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        
New Balance Man

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@vaclab I have definitely demonstrated that I understand physics behind vacuum cleaners and other things I don't know why that came into question?
There are two separate formulas for air Watts.

I don't believe I need to submit any evidence that you refuse to test water lift . You said that yourself.
I also understand that you probably can't find/afford a working vacuum gauge.

You take yourself way too seriously.

Maybe one day we can have a phone/SKYPE conversation , I don't believe it's fair to the rest of vacuum and they keep having these heated discussions.

Post# 401550 , Reply# 10   11/27/2018 at 21:10 (589 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB)        

compactc9guy's profile picture
would you consider a vintage compact c9 high air flow because mine certainly does have more AIR moving in the hose than my electrolux ap200 i find my Compact C9 has a nice balance between air flow and suction whit envirocare bag.

Post# 401552 , Reply# 11   11/27/2018 at 22:12 (589 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Wichita, KS)        
Some do take themselves too seriously

kirbysthebest's profile picture
Don't they Alex?
Like having to be the expert on everything.
Or having to be the expert on everything,
Having to be the expert on everything.

Then belittling the other posters, and being the injured party if they don't agree with you.

Why don't you post your results, where you do your testing with your expensive guages, and let us all see. Not on YouTube where you get paid, post them here where you don't even donate for the privilege of imparting your wisdom upon us.

Can't wait for your response. Like Barbara Walters says. "The a-hole always has the last word."

Post# 401557 , Reply# 12   11/28/2018 at 01:20 (589 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

vacuumdevil's profile picture

You are out of line !
Again .

Put your feelings in a email and then bake a bundt cake .

Post# 401565 , Reply# 13   11/28/2018 at 07:59 (589 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Wichita, KS)        
Minnie baked this just for you

kirbysthebest's profile picture
Using a cup of her "secret" ingredient.

Why don't you have yourself two pieces.

  View Full Size
Post# 401568 , Reply# 14   11/28/2018 at 09:31 (589 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        
Once Again Alex, You Give Nothing But

vaclab's profile picture
Excuses. No evidence, no proof whatsoever.

@vaclab I have definitely demonstrated that I understand physics behind vacuum cleaners and other things I don't know why that came into question? <-- because you still don't understand the difference between airflow and suction.

There are two separate formulas for air Watts.

Really? What are the two formulas then? There is only one formula for Airwatts.

Airwatts = ​(vacuum suction [inches of water] air flow [cubic feet per minute])/8.5

Sometimes people may re-arrange that to read:

Airwatts = vacuum suction [inches of water] air flow [cubic feet per minute] x 0.1176

But those are the same formulas.

I don't believe I need to submit any evidence that you refuse to test water lift . You said that yourself. <-- Really? When did I ever say that?

I also understand that you probably can't find/afford a working vacuum gauge. <-- Can't afford a gauge that was made from a common hardware PVC fitting with a washer stuck in one end? What are you smoking out there in Colorado? These are easy and cheap to fabricate. BUT they only are good to test for leaks (suction loss), and nothing else as previously stated.

You take yourself way too seriously. <-- No, you do. I've always been serious about the perpetuation of truth in testing and advertising. I post tests that are scientifically sound (follow the scientific method) for all to see. I love exposing the fallacies and lies of manufacturers.

Maybe one day we can have a phone/SKYPE conversation , I don't believe it's fair to the rest of vacuum and they keep having these heated discussions. <-- If you wanted to contact me, send me an email as my address has been available to members since 2014. Guess you never looked.

I can also surmise you didn't watch/understand the videos, especially the Rainbow E2 one in which I specifically test airflow and SUCTION (at the canister and hose end).

Lastly, the title of this thread is airflow losses, not suction losses, so why post suction measurements? People can simply watch the video, obviously you chose not to.


Post# 401570 , Reply# 15   11/28/2018 at 09:51 (589 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        

vaclab's profile picture
I've been looking for a Compact/Tristar machine for sometime, but they are very rare here (never seen one used in 4 years so far). Blackheart has tested an EXL and discovered it has 66 nozzle CFM and 97 hose CFM. I don't know what an AP200 can do.

Remember, suction cannot clean as it is only a pressure (force). In order to pick up small, dry particulate, you need a volume of air moving at a speed (CFM).


Post# 401586 , Reply# 16   11/28/2018 at 15:50 (589 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        

blackheart's profile picture
Oh that was a CXL one of the last IEC made models the EXL would have been the first of the Aerus made tristars. I've also tested an MG2, which was poor compared to it's predecessors :)

Post# 401590 , Reply# 17   11/28/2018 at 16:32 (589 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England)        
Thanks Bill

kirbymodel2c's profile picture
I find your videos on youtube entertaining and informative to watch.
Keep up the good work.


Post# 401594 , Reply# 18   11/28/2018 at 17:20 (589 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB)        
Blackheart (

compactc9guy's profile picture
Yes my Compact IEC c9 is quite the cleaning beast

Post# 401598 , Reply# 19   11/28/2018 at 17:33 (589 days old) by royalfan (Chicago)        
Cankles 🤦‍♂️

royalfan's profile picture
@vaclabs 🤦‍♂️ I think what's being said here is the way you present yourself. Well let's just say it doesn't look good and keep it civil.

Post# 401618 , Reply# 20   11/28/2018 at 22:46 (588 days old) by Mike811 (Finland)        

mike811's profile picture

Just my experience:

Post# 410921 , Reply# 21   6/26/2019 at 19:26 (379 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Sorry for digging this thread up!

blackheart's profile picture
Ever since Bill's testing i've been wondering if there was something wrong with my Rainbow I've off and on been looking for information on it and I found out a few things.
1. My E2 black is rated for 9.5 amps when it's only the machine according to the ratings on it.
2. The fans are SUPER narrow. I'm not sure i've ever seen a fan this narrow before. I can see why this unit has such a low showing in terms of airflow. I thought I should try cleaning out the fans since I knew they had build up in them to see if my airflow would reach 4.5 like it has in youtube videos i've seen. I placed a popsicle stick over part of it to show it's size.
Another collector told me the fans were revised at some point but I appear to have gotten the "bad" ones
3. This Amazon listing

The power nozzle was improved but it seems as though the main unit was a step backwards at least initially, if and when they revised the fans it may have surpassed the previous unit. It's VERY strange to me that a company like rainbow might take a step backwards.

  View Full Size
Post# 410928 , Reply# 22   6/26/2019 at 23:24 (378 days old) by rivstg1 (colorado springs)        
wow! look at that wide 'head'

rivstg1's profile picture
thats surprising news....

Post# 411762 , Reply# 23   7/20/2019 at 08:51 (355 days old) by tekjunkie28 (Roanoke Va)        

Yall got me thinking so I pulled out my rainbow this morning instead of the Kirby.. ALso because I think I'm getting some allergies going (its become the mid july norm the last few years)

I hooked it up to my Kill-a-watt meter and tested.
20ish watts in air cleaner mode
865watts with everything hooked up and PN off
1020-1060 watts with PN on and vacuuming. WTH?

just looked and its 9.5A rated 10.5A with PN... this is a E2 black bought brand new in January 2017

So whats the verdict here? was there some design change or something? Also is my machine the same machine that the Carpet and Rug Institute tested and game the silver seal? Is that seal even worth noting on machines?

Post# 411772 , Reply# 24   7/20/2019 at 14:25 (355 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)        
Try Performing The Power Calculation Manually

vaclab's profile picture
Some machines, due to inductive reactance and possibly other factors can skew power calculations considerably.

Remember, easy as "PIE". Power (P) equals Current (I) times Voltage (E). Yeah, don't get me started on why current is "I" and Voltage is "E", but the most important thing here is recognizing we're doing an "AC" rather than "DC" reading.

Run your Rainbow and write down what your loaded line voltage and current draw are then multiply both together. My E2 Gold and Platinum Blue specifically state 120V @ 12 Amps and bumps to 12.5 Amps with the matching power nozzle. This would mean 1440 Watts with a hose and 1500 Watts using the PN.

I wasn't aware of the newer Rainbows significantly decreasing their rated power. This may mean lower performance, but who knows without proper testing.

So 9.5A x 120V = 1140W for hose mode and 10.5A x 120V = 1260W for PN mode. If you're running in the 800W-900W range for the canister/hose, something is amiss.


  View Full Size

Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      

Comes to the Rescue!

Woops, Time to Check the Bag!!!
Either you need to change your vacuum bag or you forgot to LOG-IN?

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In

New Members
Click Here To Sign Up.

Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals
Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy