Thread Number: 37579  /  Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Commercial Vacuum options take #2
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Post# 400726   11/12/2018 at 17:29 (224 days old) by photowizd (Spring Grove)        

Well I'm posting this after being disappointed with my pick the first time around. I purchase a powrfilte backpack vacuum for a somewhat large dealership in my area. Was disappointed like day one, not as comfortable as I has hoped, horrible on area rugs, other small issues. So I'm back to sort out some of my thoughts. Went to my local vacuum dealer today and I thought I had my mind set on something but he gave me other options to ponder with.

I have been thinking about the Sebo Felix for a couple weeks now, modular in design, nice easy to service powerhead, top fill bags. He gave me an odd look, told me the neck of the vacuum is its weak point and it could fail on me.

We chatted for about an hour on all the many vacuums on the market and some were surprising options.

A rebuilt filter-queen with a non OEM powerhead

Miele C3 with the SEB 236, cord reel removed with static 50ft cord

Riccar Tandem air (probably the briliance models) Shocking option to me?

Miele U1

Riccar Vibrance with lifetime belt R20P

My dealer has been a bit burnt by sebo in the past board failures and working with them. So I guess he said he would sell me one but not recommended in his eyes.

My situation a large dealership, mostly hard flooring, different types, tile, laminate, commercial glue down, and lots of rubber backed area rugs. I do want a hose to corners and dusting.

I want to hear honest feedback on usability , reliability and easy of repairs, cost of ownership. All information provided will be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Post# 400736 , Reply# 1   11/12/2018 at 19:25 (224 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst )        

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What ya need is a metal Tristar CXL or Filter Queen good power head large bag and long hsoe perfect for floor or rugs powerful to easy to maneuver around and lots of attachments too .Eitehr of those can be bought on ebay in good condition and fora small fee metal construction means it will lasta life time long hsoe easy reach good floor tool and power head .Canister whit floor tool and power head would bea good choice in my books

Post# 400739 , Reply# 2   11/12/2018 at 19:48 (224 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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I’d go for the Aerus Lux Commercial upright or the Sanitaire Commercial SC9180b (see link below). Both are made for commercial environments with heavy gauge power cords and both have a brush roll shut-off option to clean all your bare floors. These vacs are made with a little more durability so that they can handle the dirt tracked in by customers coming in from the outside with sand, gravel and street dirt on their shoes. These may be better than vacs designed for the domestic market.

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Post# 400748 , Reply# 3   11/12/2018 at 21:03 (224 days old) by Lesinutah (Utah)        

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I'm not an expert but I have done a lot of research. The sanitairre is solid considered 2nd behind the proteam vacuum. It's top rated on Amazon and quite a few other sites. I have looked for one on classified market but almost impossible. I'm posting link to Amazon.


Post# 400750 , Reply# 4   11/12/2018 at 22:04 (224 days old) by holeefuk (Chai-nar qualitee...anything more = ip theft)        

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$300 commercial sebo felix variant much robust at heavy use, however, bag capacity limit downfall

Fix neck strong compared twistable neck. foot pedal PN release, flex not break if abuse drop.
Nonvariable board and switch invincible
cord robust as 220v industry equipment
can upgrade most premium feature after

i have mexico sanitaire older than me, still work and look brand new except black lung bag.


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Post# 400755 , Reply# 5   11/13/2018 at 01:21 (224 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        
15 years in the vacuum industry speaking.

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The Felix is by far toughest vacuum you listed.

I think you should consider a SEBO mechanical it's an extremely tough machine designed for day-to-day use and abuse.

Here's a link to Windsor's website. SEBO's commercial division.

Have you also considered an NSS M1 ?

Hope that helps.

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Post# 400758 , Reply# 6   11/13/2018 at 06:35 (224 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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But I don’t think you can turn off the brushroll with the Sebo Mechanical Upright. Cleaning bare floors is not that efficient if you can’t shut off the spinning brush roll - you get a lot of dirt scattering. In this case, there are lots of bare flooring to clean. I think he’d be better off with an upright that allows you to shut off the brush roll. It seems to be a feature lacking in all Sebo/Windsor uprights (besides the Felix), as far as I know.

Post# 400759 , Reply# 7   11/13/2018 at 06:54 (224 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

for the bare floors and up high cleaning the NSS Pig would be the best choice.There is also a powernozzle of the Pig that has a powernozzle connector for the NSS powernozzle if there are rugs or carpets.

Post# 400771 , Reply# 8   11/13/2018 at 15:00 (223 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@eurekaprince if you're not cleaning delicate wood floors doesn't matter. The commercial flooring that he's cleaning you don't necessarily need to shut off the brush roll it will clean just fine.
This is why most collector's shouldn't recommend things that aren't related to vacuum collecting.

Post# 400772 , Reply# 9   11/13/2018 at 15:01 (223 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@tolivac you have one of those right?

Post# 400774 , Reply# 10   11/13/2018 at 16:01 (223 days old) by photowizd (Spring Grove)        
I'm really torn

So I think most uprights are out of the picture even though I really like that form factor. So my thoughts guide me toward

Filterqueen with a Sebo ET1

Miele C3 (I love the machine but has many cons) Bag size, Powerhead

Sebo Felix (I still like that option but again I have some doubts never put my hands on one)

Nacecare NVH380?

Post# 400777 , Reply# 11   11/13/2018 at 16:44 (223 days old) by matt8808 (Teesside - North East - UK)        

While the Sebo Mechanical is a fantastic machine - I have the UK version, the Evolution 350 as my household daily driver, the hard floor performance is somewhat poor when it comes to anything other than dust and hair. Any large particles like grit it will just scatter, so I invested in some extra wands and a Sebo Kombi floor tool to clean our kitchen floor with it.

I'd personally go for a Sebo Felix for what you want. Superb machines and you can shut the brush roll off for hard floor.

Post# 400779 , Reply# 12   11/13/2018 at 17:43 (223 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Indeed Derek....try out the Nacecare/Numatic canister with the Sebo power nozzle. You’ll get a very flexible but durable cleaning machine that has a long-standing reputation in British commercial environments. And you can shut off the brush roll when needed, or change over to a nice wide bare floor nozzle for all those hard floors that need cleaning. Numatic even has an optional extra long hose to help you clean out the car interiors in the show room!

Post# 400781 , Reply# 13   11/13/2018 at 18:26 (223 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
My 2c

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Go with the nacecare the bags are enormous. The filter queen won't be a good choice IMO they lose their airflow rapidly due to the smaller surface area of the filter vs the a bag.

Post# 400802 , Reply# 14   11/14/2018 at 00:11 (223 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Vacuumdevil-Yes-I have two Pigs that have the powernozzle "Pigtail" connector.These are for a DIN type powercord.also have the powernozzle for the Pig or the NSS Designer Dry canister.I also use the Volt powernozzle with the Pig-Works GREAT!!If you pick up a small hard thing you hear it go thru TWO fans!!You KNOW its picked up!Sometimes get a satisfying "Thoop" into the Pigs bag!And there are several bare floor and carpet tool options available from NSS-for ANY type of carpet or floors.I have a carpet tool for my Pig and it works VERY well!when using it you push down slightly on the wand handle to rqaise the front of the tool a little for airflow-the pull up slightly when going back.Do that and the tool works well and is easier to use.Do that method with the Pig or central vac tools and its easier and more effective.Since these machines have high suction and airflow using the tools flat on the floor gets tiring and less effective.

Post# 400819 , Reply# 15   11/14/2018 at 14:39 (222 days old) by photowizd (Spring Grove)        

Why is that so cheap or inexpensive compared to the Felix model. I know it has a lower wattage motor, no variable suction, and a fixed neck on the power head but that seem very inexpensive.


Post# 400820 , Reply# 16   11/14/2018 at 15:07 (222 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY)        

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Your best bet is with Aerus. They are amazing machines.

Post# 400831 , Reply# 17   11/14/2018 at 20:29 (222 days old) by holeefuk (Chai-nar qualitee...anything more = ip theft)        
Karcher CV300

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i saw cv300 motor under the hood identical to premium sebo felix - Ametek Italian

charge high for premium feature

german entry model have modest filter, lifetime belt, hall sensors, handle switch, adjustable PN, 40feet cord more than i can afford pal


Post# 400926 , Reply# 18   11/15/2018 at 22:45 (221 days old) by myles_v (Fredericksburg, VA)        

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The Filter Queen, Sebo Felix/Windsor Axcess, and Nacecare all sound like good options. The NSS is another interesting option.

The Filter Queen option seems a little strange, but I think it could work out well. I don't have issues with them losing airflow very quickly with genuine filter cones, and the tank holds a ton of dirt.

Buying a Miele for a commercial environment would be stupid. They're great machines for home use, but they're not durable enough for the environment you'd be using it in and the consumables (bags, filters, etc) are prohibitively expensive for commercial use.

Post# 400927 , Reply# 19   11/15/2018 at 22:49 (221 days old) by myles_v (Fredericksburg, VA)        

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Also, it sounds like your vacuum shop guy just had a bad experience with Sebo so he's trying to push you towards other brands. The Sebo Mechanical seems better than the Felix if you need a larger bag capacity.
Like what has already been stated, there's no need to be able to turn off the brushroll. Uprights with the brushroll turned off often give unacceptable cleaning results anyways, so you'll either want something with a dedicated hard floor tool or something with a rotating brush even on hard floors. They'll clean better with the brush spinning than without.

Post# 400946 , Reply# 20   11/16/2018 at 06:39 (221 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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But if those bare floors are washed with soap at some point, and maybe even buffed with a wax of some sort, won’t the residue end up on the vacuum’s brush roll and then transfer to whatever carpet it is used on? Bare floors end up with all sorts of sticky stuff created by wet material drying on it....that can’t be good for the bristles on the brush roll, no? There must be some good reason that many vacuums offer an easy way to shut off the brush roll for bare floor cleaning.

In my opinion, an upright is not a practical cleaner if you have lots of bare flooring to clean. And if the carpeting in this showroom is very low pile, a good suction only canister cleaner should work well on the carpeted surfaces, too.

There is a very innovative floor brush out there now called the “Sidewinder” that seems like a great idea for commercial environments - you swipe the brush from side to side instead of back and forth...allowing the user to clean large swaths of bare flooring more easily.

Post# 400983 , Reply# 21   11/17/2018 at 00:17 (220 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@photowizd looks like you answered your own question about that Karcher CV300.
It's got less features therefore it's less expensive to make.

Also you have a backpack vacuum right? so maybe the backpack vacuum for bare floors and get a dedicated upright for carpets?

They also make maid carts that fit backpack vacuums in them ,if you want it to be on wheels.

Here is one of my favorite upright commercial Vacuums right now .

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Post# 400990 , Reply# 22   11/17/2018 at 02:03 (220 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Maid services in my area use Meile vacuums and are quite pleased with them and they work well for the maids.Their cost isn't as high as you would think.

Post# 401580 , Reply# 23   11/28/2018 at 13:03 (208 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@tolivac that's interesting to hear. I have run over a few beat services over the years that do that. If they're running a straight suction cleaners it really is quite cost-effective.

Post# 401729 , Reply# 24   12/1/2018 at 03:19 (206 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

The maid services here replace the Meile machines every few years and trade in their old ones.They just stay in the back of the shop in the trade in pile.Those Meiles are just too beat up and paint scarred to resell-and count the hours run up on the motors.They often end up as parts machines for someone wanting a part at lower cost.One of the maid machines has a blown motor.Wore the brushes right down and scarred the commumtator.

Post# 401748 , Reply# 25   12/1/2018 at 13:36 (205 days old) by photowizd (Spring Grove)        
Sebo D4, Miele C3, Sebo Felix

I think I narrowed down my options, I have been using a old beat up simplicity upright. Its been decent but I see the flaws with that vacuum in this environment. I haven't really seen or heard too much on the Sebo D4? Anyone have any hands on experience with that unit?

Post# 401766 , Reply# 26   12/1/2018 at 19:24 (205 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@photowizd I have experience with all of the sevo canisters I have sold the k-3 and the E3 commercially before with good results. The machine seem to hold up fairly well. The D4 extra long cord and large bag should serve you well.
You can also get an extra wide power nozzle with the D4 .

Post# 401786 , Reply# 27   12/2/2018 at 03:32 (205 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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My recommendations:
(1) Royal all-metal model CR5128Z
(2) Royal all-metal model CR5158Z (like CR5128Z, but with super-wide 18" nozzle)
(3) Kirby Avalir II, with the optional 50-foot-cord


Post# 401792 , Reply# 28   12/2/2018 at 08:55 (205 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
Sebo D4 and sidewinder

The Sebo D4 is a great machine, Sebos are made very well and their power nozzles are about as good as it gets. If you want an upright, the Sebo Felix is a good choice, it uses the same power nozzle but you can remove it and attach a hard floor brush, so even though it's an upright, it will clean hard floors as well as a canister.
The sidewinder is an awesome floor tool, I use it in my apartment which has a lot of hard floors, it works very well, especially when combined with a backpack but it will work with any canister or central vac.

Post# 401812 , Reply# 29   12/2/2018 at 20:44 (204 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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Those are all super cool vacuums.
Generally speaking dir air for commercial use is a no-go these days. The added cost of fans and belts are unnecessary .The industry has reflected this.
Also it appears we can no longer order Royal metal uprights from TTI.
I've seen the generation series used commercially it tends to be a rather expensive proposition.

Post# 401819 , Reply# 30   12/2/2018 at 22:03 (204 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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Especially not those metal Royal uprights with the shake-out bags (the ones without a "Z" in their model nomenclatures). When I watched this video, you explained that the shake-out bag had been outlawed in a few states.


This post was last edited 12/02/2018 at 22:40
Post# 401823 , Reply# 31   12/3/2018 at 00:25 (204 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

How come Sanitaires are STILL the most common commercial vacuums?You should have seen a Carpetpro that was used in a burger place that the user tried to pick up a WHOLE hamburger with it!!!!!WHAT A MESS-A Sanitaire would have been easier to clean out.Actually as I a said it before---NO vacuum cleaner is really good for food service use!That is why brooms,Bissel sweepers are still used in restaurants.

Post# 401835 , Reply# 32   12/3/2018 at 10:49 (204 days old) by royalfan (Chicago)        

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@photowizd Just buy a SEBO and call it good. Can't ask for better then them !

Post# 401836 , Reply# 33   12/3/2018 at 11:00 (204 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@tolivac I haven't seen one direct air commercial sanitaire out in the field im my travels. The only Sanitaires I've seen have been bypass coming on lately. They've really lost most of their commercial market share. Nilfisk-advance,Karcher,Bissell&commercial Hoover have taken the place for sure. I think it was a different story 15 years ago they definitely were pretty popular. I'm included a link to my Instagram where I've documented my travels and what I've seen.

@KirbyClassicIII I can't have a custom video for everybody. The point of that video is the show the shortcomings of Dirty air vacuums . The dump bag was besides the point. TTI Royal does make good HEPA bags. Another example of the point I was trying to make.

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Post# 401892 , Reply# 34   12/4/2018 at 00:12 (203 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

The Sanitaires are VERY common out here.ProTeam uprights are also common here.At one restaurant I frequently eat at--they have NO vacuum at all-just a mop and a broom.The place has all hard floors.

Post# 401893 , Reply# 35   12/4/2018 at 00:19 (203 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

The Sebo shown in the video is surprisingly clean for being in a restaurant.The Sebo dealer here DOES NOT recommend them for use in foodservice places.The Sebo is another HOME type vacuum.The warrantee can be invalidated if this is used commercially-but folks use them like other vacuums for commercial use.

Post# 401906 , Reply# 36   12/4/2018 at 11:01 (203 days old) by Oldskoolguy (Chicago, Illinois)        

I reeccomend a Hoover Guardsman or convertible/decade. The guardsman is not listed as bagged on Hoover commercial’s website, but it is available as model c1431-010. It also uses the same motor from the 80s convertibles and decades. Alternatively you might find a Kirby to be a good choice. I’d reccomend a sentria or later, but reallly any model is going to work fine. If you want a clean air, try the cleanmax pro series. I used one during my time working at a rec. centrer, and it cleaned well and withstood all the use it got.

Post# 401971 , Reply# 37   12/4/2018 at 22:43 (202 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@tolivac I definitely didn't sell them that vacuum. But it came in so I made a video .
That's an important point about the warranty!

Of course if you're using commercially I would recommend the Windsor or Karcher version

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Post# 401980 , Reply# 38   12/5/2018 at 03:41 (202 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Notice how familiar the Karcher vacuums are!!!!!On the Felix style vacuums I would be concerned about the nozzle on the main body breaking.Has happened.I haven't seen ANY Windsor vacuum cleaners in my area.No Windsor dealers here that I know of.The closest would be Raleigh or Charlette.

Post# 401989 , Reply# 39   12/5/2018 at 11:02 (202 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@tolivac Windsor dealers don't really exist. bigger companies usually work directly with manufacturers and buy wholesale with service contracts.
This is how most commercial vacuums are sold.

I think we are all well aware of Karcher/Windsor/Sebo being the same .
Never seen a main body break, could you email me pictures of what you have seen ? I am most definitely interested in what you have seen .

Post# 401995 , Reply# 40   12/5/2018 at 12:36 (201 days old) by Holeefuk (Chai-nar qualitee...anything more = ip theft)        

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If you broke the "main nozzle" on a kärcher, Felix, Windsor

It is part# 7078 air duct in the schematic owners manual. I believe it is a thicker and fiber reinforced plastic compared to the power nozzle plastic. I seen a video of someone kicking and smashing the Felix like a 🎸 and it was designed to give and let go. The upright latch mechanism didn't even break. Sebo has definitely considered the possibility and attempted to do something about it.

Costs $35 to replace from sebo direct. The fixed neck on the et1 is about $25 is you didn't want to pay 50 for the swivel.

Costs a little more than a pack of bags.

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Post# 401998 , Reply# 41   12/5/2018 at 12:50 (201 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )        

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@Holeefuk What happened that it broke ?

Post# 402001 , Reply# 42   12/5/2018 at 13:07 (201 days old) by Holeefuk (Chai-nar qualitee...anything more = ip theft)        

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I did not break airduct only have a picture of it expose for reference of strength and difference from residential.

I consider to replace this part because it not the same compared Felix premium variable speed when I asked sebo America.

I make workaround without buying part.

This part very strong not likely to break unless thrown out a window

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