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Thread Number: 37164
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Fantom Fury overheating very quickly |
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| Post# 396932 8/18/2018 at 20:08 (2,076 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
My 12 amp Fantom Fury has given me nothing but problems lately, specifically motor issues.
It all started back in April of this year. The motor died after 2 weeks of using the Fury as my daily driver. Then in July, I sent the motor to electroluxxx here on Vacuumland (who sold me this vacuum) so he could repair it. After he found that the motor was running really good, he sent it back to me. He ran that motor, which was hooked up directly to electricity, for an hour before sending it to me. So I received the motor, and after having a FaceTime call with Mike, who showed me how to install the motor, I tried using my Fantom again. It just turned off in the middle of cleaning after only a few minutes! So I touched the motor housing, and it was hot. I took the Fury back apart, and got on FaceTime with Mike again. He instructed me to hold the motor against the machine housing, plug in the vacuum and turn it on. I did so, and the motor was arcing! Sparks were shooting out of the commutator. No wonder the vacuum was overheating so quickly! As a solution, Mike offered to send me a used motor from a Fury that he had, which he used for a couple of years and apparently always ran great. I got it today, and installed it. I then tried running my Fantom around the house, and the motor's making a weird noise. It sounds like the bearings are on their way out, even though Mike greased them and they are in decent shape. He was aware of how noisy they were. The ugly thing is, this motor is now doing the exact same thing that the other one did! It's overheating and cutting out after only 2 minutes of use. And he ran it for over an hour with no issues. This is getting ridiculous. While I certainly enjoy being reunited with my childhood vacuum cleaner, I didn't expect it to have this many issues because of a stupid motor. What should I do? Did I connect the wires to the wrong terminals? Below is a video of the old motor arcing. Below the video are a couple pics of the "new" motor. | ||
Post# 396957 , Reply# 1 8/19/2018 at 11:22 (2,075 days old) by Bvac6  (Fort Wayne, Indiana) |
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I may be onto something when I think it sounds like the commutator could use refinishing. Much like a brake rotor I believe the vernacular for it is turning. If you think about it the motor itself is 20-odd years old with probably carbons that are just as old. I bet turning the commutator with a commutator stone and seating some fresh carbons on it would probably buy it a new lease on life.
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| Post# 396960 , Reply# 2 8/19/2018 at 13:20 (2,075 days old) by Electroluxxxx (……) | ||
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The motor was reseated with a stone | ||
| Post# 396968 , Reply# 3 8/19/2018 at 15:15 (2,075 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Solutions?
One suggestion to fix the motor is to have electroluxxxx send me an armature stone so I can reseat the motor. That's something I have never done before. He said both of my motors were PERFECT. Both of us don't get why my machine is overheating so quickly!
The second thing I could do is take my Fury to a vacuum store. I found a couple that are in Puyallup, WA, which are 15-20 minutes away from where I live. Would that be a good option? I just took a video of my second motor arcing. | ||
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Post# 396992 , Reply# 4 8/19/2018 at 22:35 (2,075 days old) by Bvac6 (Fort Wayne, Indiana) |
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The vac store may only offer used motors unless suitable replacements are being made these days. Depending on how full service they are they might be able to rebuild the motor, i.e new windings, bearings, etc. I had that done for a Eureka Emperor, it was the only option to get it running since the motor was so rare. It's expensive that option but worth it if you want to keep it. I have refinished commentators myself and it has solved that exact same issue with excessive arcing.
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| Post# 396995 , Reply# 5 8/19/2018 at 23:53 (2,075 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Let me think about this...
First of all, it has been my dream for a long time to have another Fantom Fury. This year, that dream finally came true...for a short time. After the motor died 2 weeks after getting it, I was just distraught. Considering that the Fantom, being an early dual cyclonic vacuum, passed a lot of dust through the motor. And I've also realized how underpowered it really is, because of how weak the suction through the hose is. But it does a very good job of cleaning carpets! I think it's the brush roll.
The only reason I wanted a Fury was for sentimentality reasons. I thought my original 10 amp Fantom Fury was the coolest vacuum EVER. Over the years, deep down inside, there was a part of me that wanted a Fantom Fury; I knew it was out there. Finally, in late October of 2017, on the week of Halloween, I gathered up the courage to post a "wanted" thread in the Super Market forum for a 10 amp Fantom Fury. I was contacted by FantomTechGuy, who offered to look for a Fury for me, refurbish it thoroughly and sell it to me for $150. A few months later, he had not come up with a Fury yet! He apologized, and I said that I don't mind waiting longer for a Fury, assuming that they are hard to find in his area. Right after I made that post, I received an email from electroluxxxx. He said that he had access to a few green Fantom Fury vacuums and that he would be more than happy to refurbish one for me for $120. I took his offer on that, and after an exchange of emails, he gave me his phone number so I could text him for better response. Mike started texting me about updates on my Fantom Fury, and finally, in March, he went through the whole machine, cleaning and sanitizing it, and even got ahold of a brand new motor! Then he sent it off via regular mail, and on St. Patrick's Day, I was finally reunited with my childhood vacuum! And...now I'm feeling buyer's remorse after the motor failure. I really hate to say this, but I might just give up on using this Fury. I probably won't take another chance at a Fantom after having so many problems with my Fury, all because of the motor. Even if one were to pop up at a Goodwill, I would just pass it up. My Fury might go into the garage to be used as a parts machine. Or I might put it up for sale on eBay. Very frustrating! I'm not bashing Fantom, I'm just frustrated is all. Old vacuum cleaners... I think they're more trouble than they're worth! Especially when the company went bankrupt nearly 17 years ago. | ||
| Post# 397000 , Reply# 6 8/20/2018 at 03:32 (2,074 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
Not all old vacuums are unreliable, but Fantom vacuums (especially the Thunder) were always known to be lemons, which is why you rarely see them anymore as pretty much all of them wound up at the city dump by the millenium. They became collectible because of how rare they are, but it doesn't change that their design was poor and a lot of what you're experiencing now is what many Fantom owners went through in the late 90's, although those people had warranties and got them rebuilt for free at the time so they stayed around longer.
It's not to say a vacuum shop won't repair it, you just have to find the right ones that deal with vintage vacuums and won't try to get you to toss it in the bin for a Sebo or Miele. lol BVac6 is right, Fantom parts are not easy to come by and so seldom people have these vacuums that they never sell the parts so they have no reason to hang onto them. You can always eMail local shops and explain your problem to them and see if they can help you out, or agree for an in-person visit to look it over. I'm sure they wouldn't charge you for an examination fee just to look at it and give their advice as to what might be wrong, if they did it would probably be minimal. I'm curious as to maybe some other part of your vacuum is overloading the motor, wrong motor voltage maybe? Or maybe its the brushroll as you said. I'd say just hang onto it as a decoration for now, maybe if you want to pursue vacuum repair down the road, you can always revisit it and have another go at it. :) Sometimes it helps to take a break from frustrating things for a few months, years, and come back to it with a fresh set of eyes and a fresh brain and maybe you might get the problem nailed. Good luck! | ||
| Post# 397047 , Reply# 7 8/20/2018 at 22:30 (2,074 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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A possible solution
I was texting electroluxxxx today, and he suggested that I run the vacuum without the bin and HEPA filter, and see how long it went. It still cut out after two minutes. The motor was still arcing, and it tripped the reset button on the back of the machine. It still gave off a terrible electrical smell.
So Mike is going to have me grab some really fine sandpaper and teach me how to clean the armature. He's going to have me polish the commutator with the sandpaper. Problem is, I'm not sure if I have this kind of sandpaper. I need to take a look in my garage; if I can't find any, I'll have to buy some, which is cheap. I also wanted to add that the air quality over here in Washington state is bad, as thick wildfire ash is spreading. I have to stay indoors as much as possible. In addition, I found out that I shouldn't run a vacuum cleaner when the air quality is this bad, as it'll kick up particulate matter and make the unhealthy air even worse. So I need to avoid vacuuming for up to a week while the smoke clears. | ||
| Post# 397058 , Reply# 8 8/21/2018 at 02:51 (2,073 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
You wanna hear a silly question? Is the motor spinning freely with it installed?
With the motor as fully installed as possible, rotate it by hand, preferrably at the fan end. It should spin totally freely. I'm thinking like a mechanic, here. When 2 otherwise good parts fail immediately after installing, you're left with only 2 options. A, the rest of the machine is causing them to fail, or B, the person installing it is doing something wrong. I don't mean it as an insult, those are literally the only two options. I don't see that anyone has yet asked if it spins freely. You might be thinking, well yeah duh, of course it spins freely if dude repaired the motor. But that's uninstalled. It's entirely possible that, while installed, the vac casing is putting pressure on the fan or twisting the motor so it won't spin freely. That would explain the arcing (motor under undue stress will arc) and the overheating. At this point I should mention that some things need to be installed with this in mind, and it may be that it is getting cocked during installation. You could try removing the motor entirely and run it on the bench for a few minutes and see if it misbehaves, if you haven't already. | ||
| Post# 397066 , Reply# 10 8/21/2018 at 11:48 (2,073 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest) | ||
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A clog would be my thought too. Other thought is that the Fantom was not well know for durability. | ||
| Post# 397067 , Reply# 11 8/21/2018 at 12:11 (2,073 days old) by Electroluxxxx (……) | ||
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Harley They were pretty durable, and the motors pretty reliable as I haven’t come across many with bad motors. This one just has my mind completely boggled | ||
| Post# 397071 , Reply# 12 8/21/2018 at 14:07 (2,073 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Same here
My mind is completely boggled as well. I hate to say this, but I might just have to ditch my Fury. I could sell it on eBay to make back the money I spent. Preferably locally, as I don't want to deal with shipping such a large item.
Also, I'm not really sure what to do with the other, new old stock motor that I have. | ||
| Post# 397089 , Reply# 13 8/21/2018 at 21:35 (2,073 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 397095 , Reply# 14 8/21/2018 at 23:11 (2,073 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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I don't know...
I texted Mike about this, and he told me that I need to put a multimeter on the motor. I do have a digital one.
He said that if I do ditch the vacuum, he would happily send me the money to ship the other motor back to him. I'm still at odds with myself over whether I should keep or sell the vacuum for parts. | ||
| Post# 397107 , Reply# 15 8/22/2018 at 10:00 (2,072 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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I like how I was just totally dismissed, based on nothing but conjecture. From what I'm understanding, Electroluxx did not install the motor, so how does he know if it's installed properly or binding/not binding? Am I mistaken?
I'm just trying to help here, everyone in this is scratching their heads, and I'm offering a very real possibility. | ||
| Post# 397144 , Reply# 17 8/23/2018 at 02:58 (2,071 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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It has a fan housing though, a flimsy piece of sheet metal that could easily bend. You might say but you'd hear it rubbing, well usually, not always. It would be a stretch, but both motors could have been very slightly damaged in transit.
All I'm saying is, I'm not hearing a better idea, and until somebody actually puts hands on the fan blade, I shouldn't be so carelessly dismissed. Taking the motor out and running it on the bench might be the best next step, whether I'm right or wrong. If it runs well for a while, then the motor is ok. | ||
| Post# 397160 , Reply# 18 8/23/2018 at 14:26 (2,071 days old) by Vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell ) | ||
Just to clarify I would not recommend taking this to a vacuum store unless there is a known collector working there. Parts have been discontinued so long most will have purge them out of their inventory. Unfortunately Fhantom vacuums made just like dirt devils they had a short expected lifespan. Maybe @fhantomTechguy is hoarding the parts you need?
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| Post# 397184 , Reply# 21 8/23/2018 at 22:45 (2,071 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Nick
I would keep an eye out for a Westinghouse Wired in running order, buy it & transplant it's motor into your Fantom Fury. The Westinghouse was identical to your Fantom, with the exception the bin was single cyclonic since Salton didn't have a licence to use Dyson's Dual Cyclone patents. You can usually find one in your local classifieds or Craigslist if you are persistent, & they do pop up on Ebay occasionally too.
There may also be a chance if you can find the motor's model number in the Westinghouse that the motor may still be in production & available to purchase. These were known for being durable motors....so much to the point that our former vac shop kept scrapped Fantom Fury motors to transplant in Electrolux uprights when one came in for a motor replacement. All that needed to be done was the belt pulley cut off, otherwise it's a direct swap. I wouldn't waste your time or money trying to figure out or repair whatever is wrong with this second motor. My experience with motors in general has been that you can change motor carbons & clean a motor's armature to extend it's life, but when a motor's done, it's DONE, & it's just better & less costly to replace. Rob | ||
| Post# 397189 , Reply# 22 8/23/2018 at 23:23 (2,071 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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I have to say
It feels like everybody is making attacks at Mike (electroluxxxx) with the way they're talking in their posts. He's been a member of this site before me. I know Mike takes great pride in his work. The fact that he's been in touch with me to help me out to try and resolve these issues is even more useful. I'm learning how to do motor repair in the process.
As for my Fantom Fury, I'm still baffled as to why it's delivering excess current to the motor. But don't worry; Mike will get this all sorted out. I'll hear more about the plan come Tuesday. By the way, I wanted to add that I have an interview at my local Target scheduled for next Monday. I hope I can get the job! I had been volunteering at Goodwill over the past 6 months. It'll be nice to have a real job where I can make money and support my family. | ||
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Post# 397238 , Reply# 24 8/25/2018 at 08:36 (2,069 days old) by JustJunque (Western MA) |
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Job interview 
Hey Nick,
I wanted to wish you luck with the interview as well. I can't think of anything to say beyond what Patrick said; I just wanted to second it! Thanks for mentioning that, Patrick. I had meant to, and got sidetracked. I too have been following the continuing saga of the overheating Fury. I don't get into the mechanical elements of my machines, so I have nothing to offer for advice. But I truly hope that you're able to get it solved, so you can fully enjoy your Fury! Barry | ||
| Post# 397249 , Reply# 25 8/25/2018 at 10:17 (2,069 days old) by blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
Wiring.
It's most likely not the case but years ago (like 15+) Years ago i picked up a fantom thunder and i recall it having some sort of electrical "board" where a bunch of wires plugged into I put it back together wrong cause whenever i turned it on it'd instantly blow the breaker. Does the Fury have a board like that?
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| Post# 397253 , Reply# 26 8/25/2018 at 11:09 (2,069 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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I mean, hey, I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I'm only trying to help. When Mike says he bench tested the motor for hours, and did a great job on the motor rebuild, I believe him 100%. What I don't like is his attitude, that he so easily dismissed me and others with a response of 'I did everything right,' when - while I'm sure he did his part correctly - he did not, in fact, do 'everything.' Helping Nick to install the motor over the phone doesn't count as being there in person and doing it himself, putting hands on it, feeling the work, the torque of the screws, the tightness of the connectors, and seeing the shape of how it all fits together. I'm sorry, it just doesn't count.
Now say whatever you want about me, and I don't know about you, but I personally don't like being told that I'm wrong because of something completely unrelated to WHY I'm wrong. -------------- Moving on, Nick, I'm only now able to watch the youtube video, because I've been out of the country for the past two weeks. Looking at the wiring, you initially asked if it was wrong. First question, is it a two speed motor? Second question, why does it look like there's an extra blade connector around the other side from where the two wires are connected? At this point I'm going to say with 99% certainty that you've connected one of the wires (looks like yellow) DIRECTLY to one of the brush's connectors. On a series wired motor (like most vacs) the motor is wired thusly: Line -> 1st field coil -> brush -> armature coils -> brush -> 2nd field coil -> Neutral From what I'm seeing, you've bypassed one (more accurately one-half) of the field coils. Like so: Line -> brush -> armature coils -> brush -> 2nd field coil -> Neutral What this would do is greatly reduce the overall resistance of the motor, causing it to draw a lot more juice, and arc a lot (though there are more complicated reasons why it would arc). In theory the motor would still run in this case, with only one field coil working, but I've never attempted such a thing myself. I'm betting now that the yellow wire should be connected to that other terminal on the motor, it would be the unconnected blade on the 'top' (looking at it from the video). Ensure that the yellow wire is NOT connected to the little woven string-like copper wire that is coming out of the carbon brush. If it is, move the yellow wire to that other blade connector. And give it a go. I'm anxiously awaiting your reply. | ||
| Post# 397254 , Reply# 27 8/25/2018 at 11:13 (2,069 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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Post# 397258 , Reply# 28 8/25/2018 at 11:28 (2,069 days old) by Bvac6 (Fort Wayne, Indiana) |
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| Post# 397274 , Reply# 29 8/25/2018 at 13:17 (2,069 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Guys
HonestJoe68 and JustJunque, thank you for the kind words about my Target interview! I'm sure I'll do well at it.
Blackheart, I believe my Fury does have a board where the reset wires plug into. But the vacuum has never tripped my household circuit breaker. MadMan, I think you may be right about your post! I'll have to give your idea a try. But I'm going to mail the motors to Mike so he can run the crap out of them in a Fury housing and see how they do. I think I may have labeled the terminals wrong. Bvac6, I don't think the reset is bad, as it still activates while the motor is arcing. Mike suggested splicing the reset wires using a wire cutter and wire nut, but I don't think that's the case. | ||
| Post# 397294 , Reply# 31 8/25/2018 at 19:02 (2,069 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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Hopefully that fixes it. Squinting at pic #2 at the top of thread, I can clearly see the brush and the yellow wire are on the same post, not 100% sure they are electrically connected to each other, but odds are good. Looking forward to hearing the good news.
Sending the motors off to Mikey is probably a good idea anyhow, he can tell you what kind of shape they're in. | ||
| Post# 397300 , Reply# 32 8/25/2018 at 21:47 (2,069 days old) by FantomTechGuy (US) | ||
New Motor on eBay
I found a listing for a new Fantom Fury Motor on eBay. It’s currently on auction for a pretty descent price.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO FantomTechGuy's LINK on eBay | ||
| Post# 397312 , Reply# 34 8/25/2018 at 23:01 (2,069 days old) by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA) | ||
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| Post# 397391 , Reply# 37 8/27/2018 at 04:05 (2,067 days old) by FantomTechGuy (US) | ||
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Electroluxxxx
Thank you for asking for an update.
Over the past few months, I've had a very busy lifestyle which had caused me to move this project to only when I have free time to work on it. I have been designing many new types of concepts. The concepts are still being worked on and I will have three main designs to finalize. Once I get the three main concepts done, I will begin prototyping. I am currently designing package design templates for accessories I am working on also. Once I begin to have more free time I will be able to work on this more. Please do not think that I've given up on it, that I would never do. Too add, I'm also working on remastering the Fantom How to videos and other Fantom related media. I'm also currently making plans on releasing an encyclopedia dedicated to Fantom Technologies and it's products complete with in-depth photos, guides and other pieces of Fantom history. I have a very big dream of how I want this to come together, that's why I'm taking my time with it so the quality can be something I'm proud of. Thanks again and have a good day! | ||
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