Thread Number: 3461
I just completed my 1920 hoover residential model line 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 38973   4/27/2008 at 20:04 (5,836 days old) by lux1521 ()        

Apparently I'm the only one that recognized the rarity and significance of the Hoover Special Model 102 that went a few hours ago on ebay, as I won it with no competition from anyone. Aside from being equiped with an original rare model 105 bag, it is a rare early version of the model. This special is not a rebuild, but a real "Special" like a model N would be. It also appears to be an early version of the 102 due to the 1 piece cast base with no screw on base plate like later Hoovers had. The model 102 I currently own has a screw in base plate. It is also possible that this example has an old style fan without the disk behind the blades, but I won't know for sure until it arrives.

Since I aquired a Baby model 103 a few months back, I now have the complete (minus attachments and paperwork) residential set from 1920. I say residential because I suspect that the commercial model 3, or a later commercial cleaner was being built at that time. If any Hoover experts want to tell about the pre-961 commercial cleaners and perhaps post a picture of some, I'd apreciate it.

Link to the auction:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO lux1521's LINK on eBay


Post# 38974 , Reply# 1   4/27/2008 at 20:05 (5,836 days old) by lux1521 ()        

And my model 103 for those who didn't see my thread on it a while back:

Post# 38978 , Reply# 2   4/27/2008 at 20:36 (5,836 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
I saw that...

 and I would have bid, but they didn't offer shipping outside the states.

Congrats on winning it :D

Post# 38984 , Reply# 3   4/27/2008 at 20:53 (5,836 days old) by lux1521 ()        

Its good to know I'm not the only one who sees these things. I'm just amazed no one else recognized it as being special.

Post# 39005 , Reply# 4   4/27/2008 at 21:52 (5,836 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada)        

aeoliandave's profile picture
Congratulations on the 102, Erick. It's been a 'special' Hoover kind of day.

Dave

Post# 39021 , Reply# 5   4/27/2008 at 23:30 (5,836 days old) by lux1521 ()        

"It's been a 'special' Hoover kind of day."

Yes, it has, for both of us.

Now with this latest find, I'm trying to figure out the implications of this find are, both with regards to my collection, and regarding my (and perhaps other peoples) understanding of early Hoover history surrounding the year 1920.

Regarding my personal collection, I have a feeling this is the last Hoover upright I will be getting for a long time. Models built after 1927 just don't have the same appeal to me, and cleaners built prior to 1919 are in their own class of rarity and are extremely difficult to find. What this might mean is that I'm debating selling my Hoover 725 with the 750 motor. With a collection containing 2 model 102s a 103 and a 541, it is clearly the cleaner most unlike the others and just does not fit. I also have no plans to aquire a 105 as it is too much like what I already have. What could occour is a transition in my concentration towards Kirbys or some other pre-war brand. In summation, my Hoover collection is, for the moment, finished.

Of more interest to you people, the implcations on Hoover history. The cleaner could demonstrate that the 102 had 2 revisions. This is a fact I have never heard anywhere, and to people who obsess about model revisions, this could be of importance. Another thing is this cleaner is a "special" but is most likely not a rebuild, judging by the style of nameplate. This could imply that the special series of cleaners could have been produced through 1920, and not have ended in 1918 with the Model N as seems to be a common belife, or at least has been implied. To me, this is all new info.

There could be one other strange implication to this find, which I'll get to a bit later.

Post# 39023 , Reply# 6   4/27/2008 at 23:40 (5,836 days old) by camelotshadow (Valley Village)        
Congrats

 I saw it
I'm not much for the very old
Saw the 425 w attach
that waS NICE

I really have to confine myself to practical vacs I can use
or else I will be evicted for vacamania

LOL

Post# 39024 , Reply# 7   4/28/2008 at 00:03 (5,836 days old) by lux1521 ()        

Ok, I have done some more research. Now, based on various sources, and their contradictions, we have a very serious model dating problem involving most machines built from 1915 to 1920.

As I had understood it, until a few minutes ago, I knew the following to be true:

North Canton was New Berlin prior to 1918 - Wikipedia Artical
Hoover cut down to two models for WWI (1917) - The Vintage Hoover Emporium
The Hamilton, Canada plant was built in 1919 - Tom Anderson, Post #20687 (see link)
The Senior and Junior were axed by the time the 102 was introduced - Assumption of Mine, based on WWI downsizing fact

Now this image (from thread 468) screws up a lot of stuff. You can see a lot of things going on, that you would not expect to be going on at the same time. The Junior and Senior are in production. A special model with a 3 digit model number is in production. The town is called North Canton, and the Hamilton plant and office are in operation. This could imply that the Special and Junior were still in production as late as 1919, which is something I have never heard before. So, whats the deal with all of this.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO lux1521's LINK
Post# 39026 , Reply# 8   4/28/2008 at 00:12 (5,836 days old) by charles~richard ()        

This is the sort of ruminating that can keep a person up at night! I fully understand, and often find myself mulling over equally inexplicable and irreconcilable differences with early Electroluxes.

You are not alone.

The tragedy is that by this time in history, even with all the scholarship and research at hand, you're unlikely to find completely satisfactory explanations for these discrepancies. Every expert who sallies forth with an opinion will have a different set of "facts" to bolster their viewpoints.

Post# 39031 , Reply# 9   4/28/2008 at 00:58 (5,836 days old) by lux1521 ()        

"The tragedy is that by this time in history, even with all the scholarship and research at hand, you're unlikely to find completely satisfactory explanations for these discrepancies. Every expert who sallies forth with an opinion will have a different set of "facts" to bolster their viewpoints."

While quite true, it does not stop us from wasting out time on sleepless nights like these, attempting to figure this stuff out. If nothing else comes from this, it might be amusing to see the reactions of the Hoover experts who thought they had it down, and now its all dug up again, and we're all lost in a vast quantity of contradictory information. Just another day as a vacuum collector I guess.

Post# 39038 , Reply# 10   4/28/2008 at 04:45 (5,835 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Erick...

 The 'Special' tag was used up to the Model 105, to denote the standard-sized machine. And it was introduced before the Model N, too, although I oculdn't say when - perhaps as early as 1910.

As for that leaflet, that was one I was outbid on several years ago, and I've been looking for another copy ever since. If anyone out there has it, you'd be doing a me a HUGE favour if you could scan it and send scans to me, or post them on the forum.

Oh, Erick, I've just sent you an email!

Post# 39107 , Reply# 11   4/28/2008 at 19:53 (5,835 days old) by lux1521 ()        

Its great to see some of your sources. If you do find one of those leaflets let me know. Its probably the strangest of all Hoover paperwork I have seen. It totaly contradicts the widely held belifes (and some common logic) regarding the dating of Hoover cleaners.

I did notice you updated the 102 section of your site with the "Special" name. I don't know how long you have had it that way. Having this info confirmed clears up a lot of stuff.

I plan to post some more pics when the cleaner arrives. Much to my advantage, the cleaner looks like a piece of junk in the auction photos, and I doubt I could have afforded it at the moment if it looked any better. A few hours of restoration work should get it to the standards of the rest of my collection and in a presentable appearance.

I'll also be replying to your email later tonight.

Post# 39119 , Reply# 12   4/28/2008 at 21:27 (5,835 days old) by myhooverco ()        

The records on this era at Hoover are sketchy at best. I do have a list of models and years of production.

New Berlin became North Canton in 1918 through a committee working with Boss Hoover. The name change was purely patriotic. I have never heard of a scale back on cleaners for WWI. That I will have to check.

The pamphlet you posted I have seen before. The "Junior" was a 12 inch Junior and was built from 1914 to 1922. The "Senior" was a 15 inch Senior and was built from 1915 to 1922. The "Special" was introduced in 1914 and made until 1916 and is referred to as the "Old Style Special". The model N came out in 1916 and looked much like the 102. By the time the 541 came out in 1923, these "older" Model O looking machines were out of production. In fact Hoover did not "Special" these older machines in later years. They would only rebuild the 102 style machines from 1920 and newer.

I hope this helps some...

--Tom

Post# 39122 , Reply# 13   4/28/2008 at 21:53 (5,835 days old) by lux1521 ()        

That helps plenty. Now the question I have is what are the production figures for the later Special and Junior models. I'm trying to figure out why the Junior and Senior are so hard to find compared to other cleaners built in the early 1920s. Were they unpopular, unreliable, or were they just frequently thrown out when more convienient models were purchased. I'd imagine they might have had poor resale value in the 1920s when more manuverable cleaners were becoming common, and this might cause their rarity.

Just trying to figure this stuff out. Thats what makes this era of Hoovers fun for me.

Post# 39226 , Reply# 14   4/30/2008 at 12:16 (5,833 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Tom:

 Here's where I got the info about Hoover cutting down their line-up 'for the duration' in 1918. The cleaners shown are Baby Model C and Special Model N, I believe.


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