Thread Number: 30813  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Rainbow E2 Black Teardown and Restoration
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Post# 341026   1/9/2016 at 20:26 (3,000 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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Hello Vacuumlanders.
Here are some albums of my current daily driver: my Rainbow E-2B. I got it for a pretty good deal.
I bought it sight unseen - I played some hardball to get a good deal. However, as the saying goes... It needed some work. Lol.
I used to be a vacuum cleaner repairman I did it full time, when people would ask me what's wrong with the Rainbow, I'd always say "The biggest problem with the rainbows are their owners."
I'm sure anyone here who is also a rainbow owner takes reasonable care of their Rainbow, i.e. Doesn't vacuum a 7000 sq foot house w/ 5 dogs on one 2qt pan of water w/o changing it, cleaning the separator, not switching from vacuuming to Aquamate and back to vacuuming w/o drying out the hose, etc. we know better.
My time repairing vacuum cleaners taught me that for some odd reason most John Q's don't take care of their rainbows.
Either they don't know how, or my favorite excuses " But I have kids!!" " But I have dogs, cats, reindeer etc" whatever - I never quite understood it. Never understood why someone would pay 2 grand for a rainbow and then let it go to rot and ruin.
They can be work. I won't argue that, but I've found the results to be well worth it.
But I digress, I bought my Rainbow from a "non collector" I guess.
This Rainbow was one of the worst I had ever seen. It was all funked up with god only knows what.
I gave this thing a proper teardown and a good scrubbing with Clorox outdoor bleach spray, Lysol disinfectant and Dawn detergent.
While I had it apart I thought of take some pictures of it: before, during and after. I also took some pictures of its "guts" for lack of a better word, for anyone who wanted to see what the E2B looks like torn down. Here are some albums... Enjoy :)
, Derek


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 20         View Full Size
Post# 341027 , Reply# 1   1/9/2016 at 20:29 (3,000 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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some more photos

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 19         View Full Size
Post# 341030 , Reply# 2   1/9/2016 at 20:43 (3,000 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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More photos

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 341031 , Reply# 3   1/9/2016 at 20:51 (3,000 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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I took some "Beauty Shots" of the HEPA filter. The filter is Washable, I took one look at it and was like "the hell with it!" the filter went straight into the trash.
I cleaned this Rainbow out and it is as good as new. It is sitting on my side table happily humming in low speed, purifying the air.
I wound up replacing both fans, the roller brush, some attachments added a 4 qt water pan etc. Pretty much everything but the wiring got soaked in detergent and bleach before it got put back together.
I'll post some pics later of the Aquamate project.


Post# 341032 , Reply# 4   1/9/2016 at 22:09 (3,000 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Can't speak about new Rainbows

Since mine is 40 years old.  But in the last 40 years the number of times my Rainbow has broken, or required repairs is exactly  Zero, None.  It has always been a reliable machine.  

 

Luckily for the power nozzle, the Eureka sourced unit can be worked on by just about any shop so keeping it going was no chore either.   

 

My Kirby Omega has had one service in 40 years, My fault.  It ate a rock early in it's life while cleaning out the car.   I use shop vacs for the car now.   

 

 

 


Post# 341041 , Reply# 5   1/10/2016 at 06:47 (3,000 days old) by Miskini (Northville, Michigan )        

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Nice job. I would like to get a rainbow also. They never show up on Craigslist around here.

Post# 341052 , Reply# 6   1/10/2016 at 11:35 (3,000 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Its been barely two wks that I own the new Onyx; I just got it as a Xmas gift

I think mine is still like new; I change the water AFTER vacing EVERY ROOM (floor only) & then before dusting & above floor vacing; & after every 6 hrs in air cleaning mode

Mine has the side belt PN

Yours looks like the previous owner didn't change the water often enough or vacuumed non-wettable dirt (plaster dust, Love My Carpet or fireplace ash)


Post# 341165 , Reply# 7   1/12/2016 at 00:48 (2,998 days old) by Stricklybojack (Southern California)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
.
Great work Derek. I love it when people take the time to document their vacuum rehabs.
I haven't had time to complete one in a while but have found the time to add a 1/2 dozen more vacs to the hoard!
The more recent Rainbows are fairly hard to find for me, at a decent price anyway, compared to peers like Kirby, and Filter Queen or Tristar.
Where did you find it? If you don't mind sharing, what is your total $ investment at this point, machine and parts? Thx


Post# 341331 , Reply# 8   1/14/2016 at 16:40 (2,996 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

I mean doing ONLY the floor or carpet of just ONE room at a time then change water before starting the next room & change after that room, etc. After vacing the floor/carpet only, I vacuum the upholstery (change water after vacing ONE couch or mattress at a time) Next I change the water before dusting furnishings with the dusting brush & 14ft hose

I NEVER vacuum the whole house with just one filling of water on a 4qt basin like some do thinking that the larger basin can do everything at once

I am using the 4qt water basin for vacing; & the 2qt for air cleaning mode only


Post# 342446 , Reply# 9   1/30/2016 at 19:32 (2,979 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Did U get the RainJet or MiniJet yet?

 

Once U use a Rainbow, its hard to go back to a ordinary vacuum that uses bags/filters

 

Ever since I got a SE, my Compacts & Luxes have been restricted to quick use status


Post# 342702 , Reply# 10   2/2/2016 at 15:54 (2,977 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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Hi Kirbysthebest, The Chrome domes are pretty good machines. They are remarkably quiet when they are well maintained. How long have you had your Omega? Did you get it new?

Thanks Miskini. They do come up on CL from time to time, but they go quick. Hope you find one. It took me a while for me to find this one.

Thank you Stricklybojack, I wish I could have done some vids of it, but that would have been too hard- having only one hand free to repair while the other holds the camera-lol.
To answer your question, I think I have about a grand and some change into it. Which will keep growing as I accumulate more and more accessories- haha.




Post# 342707 , Reply# 11   2/2/2016 at 16:33 (2,977 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Omega

Yes, it was bought new 5/30/1975. 

 


Post# 342708 , Reply# 12   2/2/2016 at 16:34 (2,977 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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Hi Floor-a-matic,

How did you manage to score a brand new Onyx as an Xmas gift??
That's one hell of a present! I'm jealous.

As far as the HEPA on mine went- God only knows what the prior owner vacuumed up in it. As far as I'm concerned, pets and vacuums shouldn't mix. I think that many years ago someone in a marketing department circa 1920 ish, got the idea to remove the letter S from the word PEST and call them PET instead. But I digress.. that's my $0.02

It was quite a job to get my Rainbow up to my standards of clean, lots of soaking, bleaching, cleaning and elbow grease. I threw the HEPA out and bought a new one- I wasn't even going to bother with that.

No I don't have the Rainjet, Mini Jet or Supermop...Yet.
I bought a 4 qt pan, a new hard, blue bristle brush-roller (say that 3 times fast) new attachments to replace a couple that were missing and a few other odds and ends. I just ordered the 14' electric hose and a second set of fans. I have the Aqua-mate, but I haven't used it yet other than a quick test after I took it apart and cleaned it. I have a feeling that I will be adding to my Rainbow cleaning arsenal over the next year. I really want to get the Rainbow storage rack. I wish I could order new Rainbow Boxes for it.

How are you liking your new OYNX? How does the red light by the hose work? Is it a Pilot light (like on the d4- E2 series Powernozzles)? or is it for diagnostics?

Would like to see some photos of your Rainbow - bet we all would.

I am going to change out the fans in mine (again) I think I'm going to make a video of it when I do.


Post# 342752 , Reply# 13   2/3/2016 at 09:12 (2,976 days old) by HooverCelebrity (Germany)        

Ugh, that's beautiful - congratulations on scoring such a neat machine. Nice restoration as well. I do that with any machine I bring home and want to put into use - I have enough awaiting restoration that I could retire tomorrow and never run out of things to work on. LOL

I've been wanting a new Rainbow for the past few years now - just soooo expensive; the timing is never right to consider it affordable.

I did buy a D4C-SE a few summers ago and totally rebuilt it. It satisfies the Rainbow itch when I feel like using one, for now. LOL. I've only ever used one of the e2 machines for a brief period of time at another collector's house - and that was just a one speed.  Here's the thread for the D4C rebuild:  www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...

 

I also found an e2 one speed at an estate sale for $15 a few years ago - but have had trouble finding a cheap powernozzle/wand and accessories.  I just may pull that out of the attic and work on that as one of my next projects, perhaps bite the bullet and buy some of the things needed to rebuild it.   Here's that thread: www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...

 

Why are you going to replace the fans a second time, if I may ask?


Post# 342754 , Reply# 14   2/3/2016 at 09:27 (2,976 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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@ kirbysthebest:

Did/ does it have the Armadillo bag?
The Omega is my favorite Kirby.

Must have been a beautiful machine when it was just out of the box.
Did you get your Rainbow new as well?
Did you have to go through a demonstration? to get them?


Post# 342759 , Reply# 15   2/3/2016 at 10:25 (2,976 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
reo580

No my Omega has the Classic type bag w/the Omega badge.  It was new, did not go through the demo.  We went into Wichita Kirby told them what we wanted,  they brought it out.  Paid $150 for it from my house cleaning money.  I took it home unboxed and assembled myself.

 

The Rainbow we had had a demo, as my sister had responded to an ad for "Earn $200 an hour" which was for the local Rainbow distributor.  At that time it was Wendell Houser an stand up, honest man.  My sister never sold any other than to her husband.  About a year later I decided I wanted one, again from my house cleaning money.  (I cleaned neighbor's houses from the time I was 11). 

 

I called Mr. Houser, and he had a trade/rebuilt model he sold me for $165.  A few years later I wanted to add the power nozzle, again Mr. Houser had one that was from a trade he sold me for $15. 

 

Like I said the Rainbow has never had a problem.  The power nozzle over the years has had a cracked hose etc that was easily repaired.   Now the distribulator that was originally in the power nozzle is a hard one to find.  I was able to find another on ebay from a salvaged Power head. 

 

I would use the Rainbow when I cleaned houses, and the neighbors always said how much they enjoyed coming home to a fresh smelling house. 


Post# 342763 , Reply# 16   2/3/2016 at 10:51 (2,976 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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Hi Fred,

I saw your restoration of your D4SE post.
That is a beautiful restoration. I got the idea of putting vacuum parts in the dishwasher from that post. I redid a 2001 E Series Single Speed using that technique (I'll post the photos of that when I find them).

With your E-Series, I'd recommend upgrading your wands and hose end to stainless steel. I did that with my other rainbow. The old chrome plated steel wands get nasty if any liquids are sucked up in them. Stainless wands are easier to clean and are more forgiving.

The E-Series power nozzles come up on eBay fairly often, personally I'd put a Wessel-Werk PN on a Single Speed E-Series. I think that would be an ideal cleaning combination.

As far as the fans go on my Onyx E-2, Here's the Reader's Digest version: I ordered several replacement parts for my Rainbow and I ordered a set of fans. I made a note asking them to pack the fans carefully because it takes nothing for the delicate aluminum fans to get bent - which causes them to get out of balance. My experiences with canister vacuum fans is when they get out of balance, there is nothing that can be done to get them right again- I throw them out and start over with a new set.

Here's what happened when I got the fans... the people I ordered them from did take extra care in packing them. They sandwiched them in between several layers of cardboard and wrapped them up in shrink wrap. When I unwrapped the fans I noticed that they had scratches on them - shelf wear. They are better than the fouled up fans that were in my Rainbow before, but they have that harmonic HMMMMMMMMMMM sound that unbalanced fans make. One of my pet peeves.

I think that the people I bought them from went above and beyond to make sure the fans were carefully packed. However, it takes next to nothing to bend those aluminum fans. I think that a combination of shelf wear and the pressure from the shrink wrap bent them.

I didn't want to return them because I think they tried their best to pack them carefully. So I called a dealer and explained fan situation and ordered another set of fans and I ordered the 14' hose. To be honest, I think the fans on my model are almost paper thin. They are very similar to Lamb fans. I hate them both equally. So delicate they almost have to be handled like a Faberge egg.

I should have it running the way I want it to by the end of the week. I am really picky and have a sharp ear for sounds. One of my "isms" I guess.


Post# 342817 , Reply# 17   2/4/2016 at 09:52 (2,975 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

I think the red lite is a diagnostic lite?

 

I just used the RainJet for washing windows; now I'll never use Windex spray bottle & a rag or paper towel again.  When I cleaned windows the old fashioned way, I heated the Windex with hot water for extra grease cutting power

 

btw I also acquired a blue E2 from my late dad, he bought it new in 2010; it reeks like cigarettes!  The HEPA filter was already removed; I have yet to clean it out


Post# 342876 , Reply# 18   2/5/2016 at 09:32 (2,974 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
@ reo580

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You're awesome...haha

God that looked terrible before you got your hands on it, and that's the latest generation bow!! Lucky! My gold 2 speed was bought in 2006 and I've changed the hepa ONCE! I tore it apart after five years and it had very little dirt on it, and then I saw that hepa....My God, and those fans and that separator...There is NO way I would be brave enough to take mine apart, so I've always been a respectful rainbow owner with only ME using it the way it is supposed to be used, and over the years I've read on forums how the rainbows are filthy machines from vac store owners that post......yes, they are filthy because of the people using them, that's why they are IN THE VAC SHOP to begin with - so of course they are gonna be filthy, so they conclude rainbows leak dust dirt and cake onto fans and hepa but this is only the case if you treat your machine like crap...

I mean, I've even used my rainbow a lot to suck the bin out of my shark vacuum that I use for quick run through's - you can't get much dirtier than sucking a bagless bag bin full of crap into a rainbow.....and yet, the separator remained clean, but I wash it anyway - the dirt collects very slowly on that separator if you keep the water changed.....the separator still needs to be cleaned though. I'm overkill when it comes to cleaning mine, I clean it every single time I use my Rainbow.


Post# 342884 , Reply# 19   2/5/2016 at 11:22 (2,974 days old) by HooverCelebrity (Germany)        

Makes sense on why you want to replace the fans again!  I would do the exact same thing, lol. 

 

Keep us posted - congrats again on finding such an awesome machine!

 

-Fred


Post# 342887 , Reply# 20   2/5/2016 at 13:26 (2,974 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
Derek,

gottahaveahoove's profile picture
You did a great job there. I appreciate your efforts. I also echo your sentiments. HOW can ANYONE spend that much $$$ and not take care of it? It boggles the mind.
John


Post# 342890 , Reply# 21   2/5/2016 at 13:55 (2,974 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Makes me wonder how long it'll be until I need to check the fans on my Rainbow; I bet it'll still be clean as newlaughing


Post# 342905 , Reply# 22   2/5/2016 at 16:37 (2,974 days old) by Marks_here (_._)        

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On my newly aquired black onyx addition I did the same thing, tore it all apart but nothing was found on the fans, I must have lucked out on this one but on my gold 2speed that's where I had that issue that almost killed me so on this one I was prepared! I do like the newer power head with the side belt but I doubt I'll ever use the Rainjet because I have real wood floors & don't want to take the polish off.

Post# 342925 , Reply# 23   2/5/2016 at 18:59 (2,973 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

U can use the soft sponge attachment for your RainJet; its softer than the bristles so it won't damage wood floors


Post# 342945 , Reply# 24   2/5/2016 at 23:32 (2,973 days old) by Marks_here (_._)        

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On the directions of the Rainjet Page 5 it says it will take the shine off the wood floor. I don't want to take that chance so it will be kept in the box it came with. These floors don't even get a swiffer but they are fun the slide on with socks on that's how shiny they are & people can't figure out why their floors need constant maintenace on them.

Post# 344133 , Reply# 25   2/15/2016 at 12:50 (2,964 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        
Update!

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The fans and my 14' hose arrived!
I really like the extended hose.
The fans on the other hand: BENT!! I found out after going through the replacement process, my machine sounded worse than it did before! I was so mad.
Here is what I learned with that project: Don't bother with the fans. If they are bent or caked with S*&t, replace the "pump". The fans are way too delicate to get shipped. On that note I think it is a stupid design to have a brass nut sit directly atop the "Faberge Egg Fragile" aluminum fan without a washer. I fixed the issue by using one of the original fans and the best of my prior replacement fans. It sounds pretty good.

Long story short: Don't monkey with them! Save yourself the headache and just replace the pump. That's what I should have done in the first place. These fans are worse than Lamb Fans- not worth the headache.

I also got a mini powernozzle aka Rainbowmate. It is smaller than its predecessor. It has a smooth belt instead of the geared belt. It bogged down on my sofa. I am able to completely jam it by putting my fingers in it (Don't try this at home kids!) I like the direct connect but the smaller cleaning path and flat belt are nothing to write home about. IMOP this could use some improvement.

My Rainbowmate on my 2003 E-2 Series is bigger and has a cogged belt. It will tackle and task I've thrown at it. Including deep cleaning my large, overstuffed sofa. I'll post pics of the two later.


Post# 344135 , Reply# 26   2/15/2016 at 12:55 (2,964 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

reo580's profile picture
P.S.
I don't mean to scare anyone off. If your Rainbow is properly maintained, or even reasonably maintained- You'll never have this problem. My 2003 E-series was clean enough to eat out of when I got it. My E2-Onyx is food grade clean after the clean out I gave it.
I think the Rainbow is a great machine. E2B is not as forgiving to work on as E2 Single speed but Still no regrets.


Post# 344153 , Reply# 27   2/15/2016 at 14:38 (2,964 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
yea

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that's why I refuse to let anyone touch mine but me. Over the years, I've had 3 people want to borrow mine and I said no and even made one of them mad by saying no, but I don't care...

Post# 344169 , Reply# 28   2/15/2016 at 15:45 (2,964 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Excellent work!!

durango159's profile picture
Thanks for all of the photos. Looks great. It's amazing what gets inside of them. If I still had mine, I would've been interested in taking in apart. I bet the collector I gave it to, does that some day. He loves it though.

Post# 344175 , Reply# 29   2/15/2016 at 16:00 (2,964 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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40511.

Same here. Nobody borrows my Rainbow at anytime. Ever.
I once loaned a mint condition Eureka 1400 upright to a customer to use while I fixed her vacuum. When I picked it up a week later, it looked like it had been in a demolition derby! scratches, a dent, the machine stunk something awful. Lesson learned. No one borrows my vacuum cleaners, especially my Rainbows.


Post# 344213 , Reply# 30   2/15/2016 at 21:49 (2,963 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

I use my Wessel Werk HEB160 instead of the RainbowMate


Post# 344223 , Reply# 31   2/16/2016 at 01:52 (2,963 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

"Pump"?You mean the motor and fancase,fan assembly?This could be more expensive than the fans alone.I have found just handle the stampted aluminum fans CAREFULLY and you shouldn't have any problems.Also when disassembling the fan-motor aseembly-note where any balance notches are on the fans-draw a pix or take a pix with your phone.then reassemble as in the picure aligning the balance notches.Then your motor and fans should be fine!Kinda like when balancing a ceiling fan.Usually on those the blades are marked as to where they go on the motor.Oh yes,the edges of the stampted fans can be knife sharp--so handle carefully so you don't get cut.

Post# 344235 , Reply# 32   2/16/2016 at 05:35 (2,963 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
Derek

Nice job! that one was a real mess.
I had a rainbow demo in my home last year by a friend of a friend strictly as a favor. I have a central vac, so will not make another large vac investment.
But I was impressed. My ten year old dense area rug made the water dirty. Although it has never been steam cleaned, I only have used Capture on it.
I restored the same friends old chrome dome he inherited. It only needed new brushes, oiling, and cleaning. The separator cleaned up nice with my roto tool.
The exterior is in fine shape. Polished up brilliantly.


Post# 344237 , Reply# 33   2/16/2016 at 05:39 (2,963 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
Vacuum abusers

The can slow down when they clean house. My own step daughter included.
I realize some have little ones to look after, but they manage not to beat them up, usually.


Post# 344277 , Reply# 34   2/16/2016 at 14:23 (2,963 days old) by reo580 (Holland, Michigan)        

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@ tolivac:

The motor assy is referred to as a "pump" in Rexair literature I have seen.
Balancing notches in the fans? This is new to me. Tell me more about it, I'm curious.

I have replaced countless fans in Lamb motors (FQ, Compact Royal pony etc) and Rainbow single speeds ( B through E2) and never had any problems like this before.

In this rainbow the fans were so funked up with layers of caked dust, I thought it best to replace them- they were loud. I handled these with great care.
I am curious to hear more about balancing notches.... I'm all about learning a newer, better way to do something. Get back to me on that.
Thanks again,
Derek.


Post# 344299 , Reply# 35   2/16/2016 at 18:05 (2,962 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Do U buy Rainbow parts thru RainVac.com or your nearest Rainbow distributor?

 

I cleaned up the blue E2 that my dad used to own & now it smells like new; gone away are the dirt (mostly nicotine from the air) & cigarette odor


Post# 344330 , Reply# 36   2/17/2016 at 00:42 (2,962 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

When the fans are matched to the motors often balance notches were cut in the edges of the fans.I noticed this on a central vac motor Me and Mike were working on.Before we took it apart-took pictures of how the fan notches were oriented to each other on the motor shaft.Then we we put the motor back together after cleaning the fans(the previous user used the NuTone vacuum without a bag)We put the fans on how the notches were oreiented.Motor works great!Before was very noisey from the dirt that got into the fans-had to wash them out and the motor fancase.
Never seen the Rainbow call a "pump"-guess will have to reread the book.Sometimes Kirby called their machine an air "pump" when the unit was set up as a blower-inflator.
Back to the fan for a moment-remember on the old Kirby fans when they had the circular areas cut into them for balance?For single fan-the fan can be put on any way-but for the dual fan motors-like the central one-we put the fans on as to how the balance notches were originally.Hence the taking pictures of the fans on the motor before taking apart the fans for cleaning.Used to do this years ago for "Lux" motors.But,yes its easier to get a new motor adn fan assembly-but this is more expensive-and what if a replacement is not available-then you have to take down the old motor and clean the fans.


Post# 344340 , Reply# 37   2/17/2016 at 04:46 (2,962 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
tolivac;

True about balance. The size of the fan determines the amount of out of balance. I've seen small weights clipped to squirrel cage fans for that same reason.
Bearings also come into play, as do the fan diameter, length, and weight.
A jet engine has giant blades, so the bearings which keep it on it's shaft need to be very beefy, because the diameter of the blades is so much greater than the shaft length. If the shaft terminated externally or in front of the fan intake on a super structure, a second set of bearings could be added. This would put the fan in the center of the shrouding. This would however, defeat it's purpose, as their would be no air available for thrust.


Post# 344347 , Reply# 38   2/17/2016 at 06:49 (2,962 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Bearings in gas turbine-jet engines.If the engine is a dual spool or dual rotor hy bypass fan type engine-most in use today on airliners.The bearings in these get rather complex-its like two bearings inside each other to accomidate the 2nd rotor driven by the hot gases coming from the pirary rotor.The secondary rotor turns that big fan that provides the engines thrust.Now if we took the fan off adn just used the second rotors shaft we could then have a power turbine-you could have it power whatever you need that needs to be spun with high HP-28,000-50,000HP.Electric generators(most common use)natural gas compressors-pumps-the engine runs off the gas-water pumps,ship propellors and so on.And the balances of these are critical,too.More so than a vacuum cleaner motor adn fans becuase the gas turbine parts are bigger and bad things will happen if they fail!There are double sets of bearings in dual spool-rotor engines.One set for the primary rotor-other for the secondary.And their support are high grade steel,the heaviest part in the engine.Think of them as like the engine block in a reciprocating piston engine.

Post# 344379 , Reply# 39   2/17/2016 at 10:47 (2,962 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
tolivac;

Sure, it makes sense to me. Either the bearing must be larger, or there must be several to carry the load.
I guess what I was trying to parallel to begin with is that I've heard some low priced vacuum cleaners sound bad after they are only a couple of years old.
Cheezy bearings and parts.
When I can plug in an 40 year old Eureka canister with an old ball bearing two stage motor and it sounds almost like new.
Most motors today use only press fit sleeve bearings.
I replaced the blower motor in my car last fall at a parts cost of $80. A German brand part made in China, and it is already noisy.


Post# 344432 , Reply# 40   2/17/2016 at 16:40 (2,962 days old) by Marks_here (_._)        

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I had no problem taking mine apart & putting it back together but what I did was take a sharpee & mark one side (like when you do the timing on a car) even the bolts so that way I knew where it would line up & also wouldn't over-tighten the bolts.

Post# 344670 , Reply# 41   2/20/2016 at 03:18 (2,959 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Yes,in the older days bearings were made here in the US-Do know a freind of mine that works in one of the few bearing factories left in the US-he and the site are in Erwin,Tenn.The high quality bearings last for a longer time than cheaper grade ones as most makers are using now-after all they want you to buy a new device than fix the old one.Got to fill up those landfills!And the bearings that can be lubed or greased are better than cheap sealed ones that fail.Beleive the factory in Tenn is NTN Ball&Roller or something like that.The man used to work at the transmitter with me.

Post# 344673 , Reply# 42   2/20/2016 at 04:15 (2,959 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
bearings, cont.

True tolivac. Timken bearings were also very good. Remember oilite bearings?
They secreted oil as they became warmer. Whirlpool used them on the spin tubes in the old wig wag clutch style belt drive washing machines.


Post# 344689 , Reply# 43   2/20/2016 at 06:41 (2,959 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Yes,remember those bearings-The oilite bearings can explain why a large number of WP,KN BD washers are still in use today.Better than the new dreck made today!

Post# 344694 , Reply# 44   2/20/2016 at 08:22 (2,959 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
tolivac,

Are they still available? I remember my dad showing me how they bleed oil on his bench grinder. He actually did need to replace them on a few rebuilds he did.
If the worn ones were left in, too much latteral play between the spin tube and agitator shaft. The bearings were cheaper than a new spin tube.
Now that was a well engineered machine. My dad serviced them for Sears for 33 years. He told me the old belt drive was sold to Canada. I don't think Inglis/Whirlpool kept it very long.
Braestemp in Brazil also used it. I remember also the beefy clutch. If they did wear out, they were in households with large families, or too often overloaded.
Most repairs were mix valves, timers, belts, or pumps, maybe a bad relay or solenoid here or there on the wig wag.
My moms '63 turquoise model 70 lasted about 26 years.


Post# 344697 , Reply# 45   2/20/2016 at 08:26 (2,959 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
P.S. tolivac,

I tried replying to your Roomba thread on autowasher, but it would not let me do it for another 1/2 hour.
About the Miele roomaba? I bet Roomba makes it for them, since the Miele C1 is from China as well.
I also wanted to tell the other poster that the filter is not a hepa. Hepa filters are pleated. A pleated hepa filter on a Roomba would block all airflow from that tiny fan.


Post# 344790 , Reply# 46   2/21/2016 at 02:13 (2,958 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

My Mom has an older KN BD washer.She has had it rebuilt under a service contract.Don't know if she still has it-assuming not since she is moving to a retirement home.I am betting my sister has the machine now.Don't know offhand if oilite is still around-will have to look it up-or "Google" it.The vac dealer near me has the Meile "RoomBa" in stock-haven't seen it work nor looked at it.I don't have much interest in that kind of "vacuum"Would think their tiny fans wouldn't have any more suction than someone inhaling.Remember one Roomba brought into the sew&vac place for service-it was draining its batteries quickly.Turned out its beater brush was entangled in long people and dog hair.Same with its whisker brushes.Cleaned them out-machine was better.I have seen some filters rated HEPA that aren't pleated.Used in some Riccar-Simplicity vacuums.Same with Meile.The filter relies on the size of the particles it can filter rather than pleating.And for the filter to be effective-it must have airtight gasketed seals.I laughed at a Sears vacuum that had a "HEPA" filter in an ungasketed compartment-and you could see the dirt blasted by it!Was in the Sew&vac place the vac place uses this vacuum to show how ineffective unsealed "HEPA" filters are.And the dust counter confirms it.

Post# 344887 , Reply# 47   2/22/2016 at 06:55 (2,957 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
tolivac,

absolutely, there is a huge difference between a sealed air system, and just a "hepa" media filter.
Miele prides there selves on this, as does Electrolux. I doubt a Panasonic or aka Kenmore progressive will ever have this, as it increases the cost a lot.
Not even the budget priced Miele C1 Delphi, etc. canisters have it.
In fact, some later European Electroluxes have two hepa filters. One before the motor in the bag or suction chamber, and one below the motor for exhaust.
Unfortunately, these require cooling hoses for the motor by drawing in air from the suction chamber from back pressure. Their electronics are also junk. Up to four pressure transducers, and rectifier, control boards.
I dub them electrojunx.
As for a robot vac, no thanks for me either.


Post# 345051 , Reply# 48   2/23/2016 at 02:48 (2,956 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I haven't seen or tried the new Aerus -Lux machines-some people on here really like them.It seems to be another "Euro" styled canister vacuum.Forgot about the double HEPA filters in the new 'Lux machines-and yes-the problematic circuit boards.Machine being made too complicated-but folks want the "cool" digital displays and readouts and variable speeds.Like in washers and dishwashers circuit boards and moisture don't mix-same with vacuums-circuit boards and dust don't mix.Dust can be electrically conductive-causing problems on the boards unless they put in an airtight space-then there is the problem of cooling the boards-since they do have to dissapate heat.I would like to try the 'lux machine-but would have to have their salesman to to the house.Not ready for that yet!And I think my MD Silentmaster vacuum is the ULTIMATE canister machine.My NSS M1 is the other!

Post# 345061 , Reply# 49   2/23/2016 at 05:14 (2,956 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
tolivac,

yes, they are in fact European spin off's. American Luxes always have been in fact.
However, today, the only European ones which compare to an Aerus are the direct door to door sold models. Aerus kept the quality and integrity.
Store marketed Electrolux products across the pond are bagless cheaply made plastic 3 to 5 year life throw aways now.


Post# 345070 , Reply# 50   2/23/2016 at 06:30 (2,956 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Yes,don't like the Big Box store "electrolux" machines except the Sanitaire uprights.The uprights are actually nice machines.Good performance at a lower price.And easy to maintian.Best selling commercial upright vacuum.

Post# 345380 , Reply# 51   2/25/2016 at 17:34 (2,953 days old) by chicagomike (Plover, WI)        
reo580 (Holland, Michigan)

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reo580 (Holland, Michigan) - how do you take the wands apart on the Black Edition? Is there a manual or anything available showing how to take the motor apart? I have taken apart the floor nozzle/shells both top and bottom but never have messed with the canister portion other than cleaning it and the seperator.


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