Thread Number: 2895
I'm new here with Kirby DS 50 questions.
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Post# 31782   2/13/2008 at 00:06 (5,888 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        

Hi, some of y'all might recognize me from AW.org, (my secret identity there is Volvoguy87). I finally joined Vacuumland, after reading since the beginning, because I have some old vacs in need of love.

My grandparents have a Bissell upright (POS model). I don't know the specific model, but it is one with a clear plastic dirt cup instead of a bag. Anyway, it looks like it has bitten the dust (would someone here please shed a tear, I'm afraid I just can't). The good news is they have a Kirby DS 50 in the basement!

I don't know specifically why they stopped using the Kirby. Possibly because they didn't want to lug that heavy monster around (my grandparents are now 85 years old). I seem to remember something about trouble with the belt staying on, but that could also have been user error. Fortunately, they now have a very nice able-bodied housekeeper who cleans up a few times a month and is quite capable of handling the big Kirby (and she REALLY hates the Bissell).

My questions are: what things should I look at when I dig it out of the basement? To my knowledge, they have owned it since new (or nearly new). They probably have the original paperwork, but I have no idea where to find it. I recall it was serviced in the late 1980s and the original bag was replaced. I have never seen a hose or attachments for this vac either. I believe they intended to have it serviced shortly before it was put away but balked at an estimate of about $100.00. They grew up during the Depression, but for several years have not had a good sense of the value of a dollar (it was a battle a few years ago to get them to replace their broken stove {BOL tract-house model from the late 1980s} because it would cost over $200.00).

The Kirby has been in the basement for at least 5 years (and 2 plastic POS vacs). It is covered in dust and has not been run since it was put away. How should I go about cleaning up this vac? Should I replace specific parts like the brushroll and belt? How do I empty and clean the bag (late 1980s bojac? replacement, so there may be a paper bag lurking inside). Does the DS 50 have a "Sani-emptor" (spelling?)? If it does, what does it do, how does it work, and how do I service it? How does the belt lifter work? How can I inspect the fan? Are there any DS 50 quirks I should look for?

I have never used a Kirby DS 50, and have very limited vacuuming time with Kirbys of other models. I have never serviced a vac, but I am no slouch at the workbench. I grew up with a 1981 Supreme Electro Hygiene (Royal) upright, so I am unfamiliar with Kirbys. I like Kirbys and would like to resurrect the DS 50 to prevent the purchase of yet another ineffective POS plastic vac. Goodness knows, my grandparents could use genuinely clean wall-to-wall carpet for the first time in years. They bought a very good vac 40 years ago and I believe it is still better than its recent competition.

I appreciate all your help. Maybe after I finish the DS 50 I can give some much-needed attention to my Electrolux Super J which is making some bad noises on startup and shutdown.

Thanks a bunch,
Dave


Post# 31784 , Reply# 1   2/13/2008 at 00:50 (5,888 days old) by badata ()        

Dave, thanks for writing about my FAVORITE machine. I LOVE the D50!!! and you are right NOTHING cleans like a Kirby! You have a good little machine there. The brush roll probably doesn't need replaced unless its wore down. As far as cleaning it up......EASY since its just dusty. Take some simple green or some other cleaner and wipe away the grime. If it needs to be shined up, use 0000 steel wool and mothers polish on it. Sounds like you will have a brand new machine! Too bad about the original bag. The dual 50 does have an emptor. Unless this was completely rehauled and changed (D50 didn't have a paper bag), there should be a place on the bag with a small zipper on the side.....you put your hand inside of that, scrape the dirt and dust to the bottom, shake the bag a bit, get some newspaper and empty the dirt on to the paper.....sometimes i use a plastic bag but you have to be careful so the dust doesn't go everywhere. its not as difficult as it sounds. If you take the head of the kirby off, you can see the fan. Unless the picked up nails etc...it should be ok. "belt lifter".......to take the head off turn the belt lifter ---the kirby logo will be upside down. when you put the head back on---turn it back the other way so that it is readable. I might have extra tools for this if you need them. I'm not sure about that but its possible.

Electrolux Super J........this is what I grew up with. My partner Jeff now has it. This machine is a GREAT machine. It also was making a little noise and we changed the brushes in the motor and now it runs like its brand new. Good luck on these projects and as I am NOT an expert, maybe someone else can give you a few pointers.

Michael


Post# 31796 , Reply# 2   2/13/2008 at 06:50 (5,888 days old) by swiveltop (Galveston, TX)        

Hi Dave, Welcome, MaytagMark here from AW.org,The D-50 is a great machine,Michael answered all the questions well,it probably needs very little to get it back in shape,I have a Sanitronic that was in storage for years,I just put a new belt on it and it was ready to clean. Mark

Post# 31864 , Reply# 3   2/13/2008 at 17:55 (5,887 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
Uh oh!

I brought up the DS 50. There is a Bojac bag with a paper bag inside. The Sani-Emptor (spelling?) is missing. The replacement bag is held directly onto the blower housing with what appears to be electrical tape. I will attempt taking pictures shortly. How much of a pain in the rear end is it to obtain a replacement emptor and bag? This vac is not going to be used by anyone who appreciates it anytime soon, so I need a bag and emptor that fit, regardless of being the "correct" pattern for this model. In fact, I would probably prefer to save any original DS 50 bags for restoration projects anyway. Hopefully the grandparents are willing to pay for a few parts.

I know this vacuum was used in its present configuration for some years. Is there any potential damage that I should look for that may have happened by operating the vacuum without the emptor and correct bag?

As I dig more into this poor, hacked Kirby, I'll likely have more questions. For now, anyone know how much these parts might cost?

Thanks a bunch (urge to cause a scene at the shop that hacked this Kirby... rising),
Dave


Post# 31876 , Reply# 4   2/13/2008 at 18:52 (5,887 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
Pictures of this poor DS 50.

The front (if this works).

Post# 31877 , Reply# 5   2/13/2008 at 18:55 (5,887 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
Something's missing...

What is it?
(Also; yes, that IS electrical tape!) And can you believe a vacuum shop did this? My poor grandparents didn't know any better.

Please post pics of your DS 50s, show them off! Aside from showing off great machines, it would help me know how this thing is supposed to look!

What do you think?
Dave


Post# 31895 , Reply# 6   2/13/2008 at 20:39 (5,887 days old) by swingette ()        

You can start by ripping off all thats part of the bag it has now. There should be studs around the opening of the exhaust. Hope those didnt break/shear off.

You can get a passable, aftermarket, all-in-one paper bag setup or you can buy an emptor and bag off ebay.

If you are handy, you can put together a paper bag setup using genuine Kirby parts.


Post# 31900 , Reply# 7   2/13/2008 at 21:17 (5,887 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
Update:

I removed the bag. It was wrapped with electrical tape, beneath which was a wrapping of copper electrical wire. There was a bracket below all of that which twisted onto the studs, but not actually attached to the bag.

Good News! The studs are intact!

Bad News! Yup, I need an emptor and a bag. Any thoughts on how to obtain them and how expensive they might be?

Worse news! I found the nail in the proverbial coffin! The reason why the vacuum was put in the basement is that the belt lifter is screwed up. There are 3 screws holding the belt lifting "tongue" in place. (If you can think of a better name, I'd love to hear it!) First, this thing has been disassembled before, and it was not put back together properly. The tongue is not in the right position. Repositioning the tongue seems possible because there are only 3 possible positions. There is a thin metal ring which came off. Any thoughts as to how to put it back on and where it goes? The biggest problem is in the next paragraph.

On the back of the belt lifter there is a piece of metal sandwiched behind the tongue with 2 retaining tabs. These tabs fit into 2 notches on the side of the hole in the front of the brushroll housing. The tabs are pretty severely mangled. Should the tabs be flat, or is there a shape/dish to them? Can I replace this piece, or would I be better off getting a new belt lifter? I would like to at least retain the Dual Sanatronic plate on the front.

Right now, the belt lifter is being treated with penetrating lubricant to un-stick the 3 screws.

Back to work...
Dave


Post# 31906 , Reply# 8   2/13/2008 at 23:19 (5,887 days old) by petek (Ontario)        

Hi Dave and welcom over to the other side. I don't have the model 50, yet, lol, but the emptor and bag are bound to turn up eventually. Took me not too too long to get the original bag etc for my Classic III. It was altered for paper bags as well but not it's original and so I don't use it really.
In the meantime while you're waiting get a rubbing and polishing. They really are relatively easy vacs to work on as far as taking apart and putting back together. No real trickery until you get to the self propelled G series. My first was a blue Tradition and I think it was the sound that most captivated me..a pleasing low roar instead of a high pitched whine.


Post# 31975 , Reply# 9   2/14/2008 at 19:14 (5,886 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
A rather disappointing day.

I went to the local vacuum shop to ask about parts for the DS 50 today. The owner seemed offended that I wanted a shake-out bag and emptor. He strongly pushed the $30.00 conversion to a paper bag and removal of the emptor, saying that it was "the only way." I bought a new Kirby brushroll belt for $2.25 and that's all the business I'll give him. He said he didn't "waste his time with older vacuums." He just refused to believe that I wanted the original style of bag instead of the paper bag. Tomorrow I'll call Kirby to see if they could recommend where to get parts.

Thus far, I think I need:
A shake-out bag.
A sani-emptor.
A belt lifter.
A headlight bulb.
Am I missing anything else?

I plugged in the motor today and it runs perfectly. The exhaust port put out a fierce wind and the motor took a nice long time to coast to a stop after I switched it off.

What parts are supposed to be in place between the fan housing and the bag that aren't obvious? Is there any type of fill tube? Also, how does the bag attach to the emptor? Are there any drawings of how the bag and emptor fit together? Do any of you know what bags, emptors, and belt lifters will fit onto a DS 50?

Thanks for your help and insight,
Dave


Post# 31981 , Reply# 10   2/14/2008 at 19:38 (5,886 days old) by swingette ()        

you should go to Charles Lesters website, 137.com

lots of Kirby photos.


Post# 31982 , Reply# 11   2/14/2008 at 19:51 (5,886 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Dave:

You did exactly the right thing turning that guy down. The parts you need will turn up. People here are very helpful, and there's always eBay. As you know from having a Volvo (I have an '88 245 meself), original parts make for the most desirable and valuable result, every time. Bojack stuff just turns your baby into another "if only" specimen ("If only that machine had the bag/hose/cord/bumper/wheels/emptor/etc. it's supposed to.")

However, patience is needed. Let me tell you about the eighteen-month hunt for my high-mount brake light cover sometime. Compared to that, most vac stuff is fairly easy.


Post# 31985 , Reply# 12   2/14/2008 at 20:20 (5,886 days old) by vinvac (Dubuque IA)        

vinvac's profile picture
David,

Hopefully this will help you in your search. Here are couple of pictures of my Dual 50


Post# 31988 , Reply# 13   2/14/2008 at 20:25 (5,886 days old) by vinvac (Dubuque IA)        

vinvac's profile picture
I believe this machine to be all original. The bag, cord, wheels ect. are original to the machine and have not been replaced. The replacement bag looks very similar, but the Kirby logo is not printed as closly together. I also have the complete set of tools and hose. Please disregard my messy basement. With this cold/flu bug my cleaning is not up to par.

Morgan


Post# 31997 , Reply# 14   2/14/2008 at 21:32 (5,886 days old) by hygiene903 (Galion, OH)        
Hello Dave!

hygiene903's profile picture
Welcome to Vacuumland! The D-50 is my favorite Kirby, and for parts I personally recommend Kerry Reid, who has posted here occasionally. He was a big help with the restoration of my D-50, and his email is kreid@rcn.com.
Morgan, those are great photos of your D-50. The light shining through the emblem on the hood is one of my favorite features on the D-50, and hopefully soon I'll get a new light put in mine so it can shine too!
Jeff


Post# 32001 , Reply# 15   2/14/2008 at 22:47 (5,886 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
Thank you for your help.

Morgan, those pictures are lovely. Have you ever noticed how the fluted aluminum handle on the Kirby is actually lighter than the handle on Royals (at least from the early 1980s)? My grandparents' vacuum just looks naked without the big, sturdy-looking emptor. It also still has its original cord, in good shape. I love how shiny yours is. Either I will have lots of work to do, or maybe it will be sent to Kirby for a rebuild (if the paperwork can be located). It's in such rough shape and missing so many pieces that I wouldn't hesitate getting it rebuilt, then cosmetically restoring it some years later. At this point, however, finding the appropriate paperwork for a rebuild may be doubtful, so I am exploring all options. Thanks for the parts reference, Jeff.

Has anyone had an old Kirby rebuilt before? Do you think they would fit it with a shake-out bag and emptor? Are they really sticklers for paperwork, or could my grandmother talk her way into a rebuild (she's pretty good at that sort of thing).

Also, still no luck loosening the 3 screws on the belt lifter, yet.

Thanks so much,
Dave


Post# 32014 , Reply# 16   2/15/2008 at 08:15 (5,886 days old) by louvac (A)        

Dave...

If you would like to email me at Lres1@aol.com I will be glad to give you some very good tips on the rebuild process.

Louis


Post# 32016 , Reply# 17   2/15/2008 at 09:02 (5,886 days old) by hoover1060 ()        
Kirby Rebuild

I've had two done, and they come back beautiful!

As to paperwork, what they are looking for is the inside back page of the owners manual, where the dealer should have signed the space and entered the serial number.
My much better half Michael has a D-50 manual, the rebuild price is $27.50.
As to replacement of missing parts, I don't know that they would do that, but you could always find our before you return the cleaner.
Let me suggest you visit Kirby's website and click the "rebuild" link. You can speak to them directly and they will be able to answer all of your questions.
Also, if you'd email me privately, I may be able to assist you with one of the things you're looking for.


Post# 32027 , Reply# 18   2/15/2008 at 13:41 (5,885 days old) by sbnhvlvr (South Bend, IN)        

Check item 200196006482 on ebay, it is an attachments set for a DS50 and there is also a DS50 Dust Bag there too!

Post# 32029 , Reply# 19   2/15/2008 at 13:51 (5,885 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
Thanks sbnhvlvr.

I will DEFINITELY keep an eye on that auction. I just hope nobody else here is also bidding on it, I don't want to step on anyone's toes. All I really want is the bag, emptor, emptor bottom, and associated parts. I doubt the hose and attachments would ever get used.

I called Kirby today and got some prices for parts from a very helpful real live human employee. I always like real customer service without annoying menus.

The Kirby prices are as follows:
$37.80 for the bag,
$88.20 for the emptor,
$26.00 for the emptor tray,
$97.35 for a new brushroll housing with integrated belt lifter.

WOW that's expensive! I'm also awaiting a call back from the rebuild department. I think I will not give up on repairing the belt lifter just yet, although the 3 screws are still firmly stuck.

Hopefully, this will vacuum again,
Dave


Post# 32030 , Reply# 20   2/15/2008 at 14:09 (5,885 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
I'm So Glad...

...I'm into Luxes. Those Kirby prices are something else!

However, it's hard to put a price tag on getting something you really love put right, isn't it?


Post# 32031 , Reply# 21   2/15/2008 at 14:32 (5,885 days old) by louvac (A)        

Dave...
email me....the rebuild is your best bet!
Louis


Post# 32044 , Reply# 22   2/15/2008 at 17:59 (5,885 days old) by ge1969 (Jefferson, GA)        

Hey Dave! I probably have the bag and complete mini-emptor that you're looking for, which might lessen the cost of the rebuild from Kirby if you go that way. I'm a canister person myself, but I'm proud to say that I have a DS-50 with the hose, tools, and polisher in my collection. Just let me know on the bag. Later, Trg

Post# 32182 , Reply# 23   2/16/2008 at 22:02 (5,884 days old) by volvoguy87 ()        
E-mail.

Hey Toby, I tried to e-mail you but my e-mail sent it back. Is the e-mail address on your profile accurate?

Thanks a bunch,
Dave


Post# 32242 , Reply# 24   2/17/2008 at 00:07 (5,884 days old) by ge1969 (Jefferson, GA)        

Hi Dave! It may or may not be, but anyway, the correct one is tobyrg@peoplepc.com. Later, Trg P.S. If it's not correct on the profile, let me know so I can change it.

Post# 32262 , Reply# 25   2/17/2008 at 00:36 (5,884 days old) by sbnhvlvr (South Bend, IN)        

Do you get ebay item 200196006482 ???????

Post# 32690 , Reply# 26   2/19/2008 at 19:52 (5,881 days old) by kc_kirby (Kansas City, MO)        
DS50 emtor

If you still need a DS50 Emtor, I know where one is. Let me know, its part of that post with all the Kirby's for sale.


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