Thread Number: 27186  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
SEmigewerbliche BOdenpflege Felix Vogue ECO!
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Post# 304365   11/3/2014 at 10:08 (3,432 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I'll start off by saying read through this message if you can bear to, as it is quite interesting.

My father passed away a couple of Saturdays ago, god rest his soul. Since this has happened, I have had literally hundreds of people coming to my house for various things, whether that is family, friends, people sorting out his affairs or all 3 at the same time (this actually did happen. My cat Thor now has depression due to the amount of people in HIS house. The dogs are fine.)

Since I have been using the Dyson DC41 MK2 as my daily, go to vacuum, obviously picking up lots more dirt now, I am once again, disliking bagless vacuums. Now I don't want to sound like a contrarian as I love my DC41 MK2 in so many ways, from performance and ease of use, but the bagless is driving me nuts now. I didn't realise how irritating they are for me now, in terms of stress and my skin when the dust cloud goes everywhere. Eww.

So I am not going to go on too much about this, so instead I purchased a new Felix Vogue eco for a few reasons.

1 - I gave my felix navy to my sister as she had a Morphy Rihcards lift away which has barley lasted two years. Both hoses have split, the plastic around the head has cracked and the motor is making a terrible noise. She has a house full of kids, cats and dogs and uses her vacuum daily and she looks after it as I make sure she does, but it hasn't lasted, so being a good brother, I gave her my 7 month old Felix navy compelte with a box of bags. She says it is the best vacuum she has ever used and wonders why she didn't just buy this in the first place and saving herself money.

2 - I have a slight obsession with buying new vacuums when they come out, especially of late, since the EU regulations and vacuums once again using sub 1000 watt motors. My findings have been surprising as in all, the vacuums are just as, or even more powerful and effective than they were using 3 times the wattage.

3 - I am an Anglo-German, half on each side (father was German). I already have a Numatic George and Dyson, but only one German vacuum, a Bosch (Chinese made though, and you can tell. Sad face) so I thought I should balance it up with a new German vacuum, and Sebo are my favourite German vacuums and quite possibly, my favourite vacuum full stop. Certainly my favourite bagged vacuum. (Sorry Kirby fans, this is Europe, not the rest of the world!)

So I have my Vogue. The pictures I have posted tell most of the story. Sorry about the dirty carpet which has now been Sebo'd. To anyone familiar with the Felix, it is mainly the usual affair when it comes to overall design, attachments, packaging and so forth. The differences I shall now explain.

It has a 700 watt suction motor and the normal ET-1 175 watt Ametek brush roll motor. This is what has been worrying me. I know these EU labels should mean nothing to us enthusiasts, but having it printed in black and white that, according to Brussels at least, a £120 Vax upright performs better than this Sebo, was a bit off putting initially. However, I can report, that the differences between this felix and the normal 1300 watt model are next to nothing.

Look at the photo of the instruction manuals of both vacuums I have posted. The specs are identical. The right hand one is the 700 watt model, the left is the 1300 watt model. I know. Strange isn't it.

What do I think ? I honestly can not tell any difference. The suction seems identical to me. Pick up performance is just as good. The 700 watt one makes no where near as much heat, is slightly quitter, which is impressive as the normal felix was a quiet machine anyway. When you start it up and the motor spins up, there is a pleasant whistle to the new motor that wasn't there on the 1300 watt model.

Other than that, the agitation is just as brilliant, lovely long cord, lay flat to the floor, comfortable handle and all the other nice things I loved about the previous felix.

I phoned up SEBO to register this felix and got talking to a lovely lady who said she had been working their for 16 years. I actually asked her about the specs being the same and questioned weather the specs were printed incorrectly, carried over from the previous model in error, or if those cleaver Sebo engineers have made a vacuum with nearly half the wattage that perform the same, and she said it was most likely the latter. She explained that SEBO's have never been about the wattage of the motors, and said that the first Sebo sold in the UK (she didn't say which one) was 750 watts and that model earned it's reputation being used in Buckingham palace, this White House, hospitals and schools across the west. She said the only reason SEBO started making vacuums with higher wattage motors is because that's what people wanted to see, as this is what the competition were doing, she said it has nothing to do with the performance of the vacuum itself, of course I agreed. She said it is mainly in the airflow design of the vacuum and the agitation. Very knowledgeable woman. I said maybe when they tested the felix, it earning a B for carpet performance, they had the head set too high, she said most probably, or the suction wasn't adjusted properly, or both. She said that SEBO have such a loyal customer base, that people higher up in SEBO have assured the company not to take to heart these rating as to the SEBO customer, it makes no difference, as they know how good the machines are and do not need labels to tell them otherwise.

She said that the "team" they have in the UK tested the eco and standard felix side by side and couldn't tell any difference other than the heat and noise emissions.

Anyways. I am very happy with my felix vogue. It was already a good looking machine, but this colour combo does it justice. The black parts on the navy are now a cream colour on this one.

I also have some tips and tricks for current felix owners if you are interested.

1 - I have mentioned this already, but the exhaust filter is machine washable. I have washed the exhaust filter on a relatives Felix royale 3 times over the 2 years she has had it and it has not got damaged at all. It hasn't shrunk or sagged of fluffed up. Put it in a fast wash, 40 degrees with a small amount of detergent and it comes up spotless and dry enough to put straight on the vacuum. I put mine in a small items bag to protect it somewhat. I found this out by curiosity as I had purchased a new exhaust filter for the felix roayle (you can actually get them from sebo direct if you phone them up) but thought what if I put it in the washing machine, what have I got to lose as I am going to replace it anyway.

2 - Lubricate the handle. This maybe obvious for some people, but on the Felix's in this family, I have lubricated the aluminium handles with petroleum jelly or Vaseline. Goes up and down as smoothly and as easily as anything and protects the aluminium from scratches. If you can get some form of grease, paint it on with a small brush or rub it on with your finger. It doesn't accumulate dust or dirt, but if it does, you can easily wipe it off. I have done this to my Felix Vogue already. Also would be a good idea to lubricate the bearings in the cap at the floor head. Picture will show this.

3 - Getting rid of the metal bars at the head. This requires careful attention, but is straightforward and harmless to do. I stripped down the felix navy before handing it to my sister and found that the metal bars at the brush roll can easily be removes just by opening up the head. I have posted pictures as clearly as I can, showing how to do this. Pay attention to the length of screws, but it is very easy to do. The point of this means you get a clean sweep when you vacuum, uninterrupted agitation. The only reason this is there, I can think of, is for light weight rugs, to stop them being sucked up, but as I and my sister do not have any rugs or mats, it is not a problem. It isn't there for strength I don't think at least.

So there we are. My felix vogue eco. Just as powerful as the previous Felix's. A very good all round vacuum!

P.S - Sorry for the poor quality photos. Something to do with my rather poor internet at the moment.


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Post# 304370 , Reply# 1   11/3/2014 at 10:30 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Thank you very much for sharing! Certainly reassuring to know that the performance difference is non-existent.

I do love the Felix. My Mum and my in-laws both have one.

How would you rate the performance in comparison to the DC41mk2? Obviously there are pro's and con's to both, but in terms of overall carpet cleaning, was there any noticeable difference either way?


Post# 304371 , Reply# 2   11/3/2014 at 10:36 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I found a difference. The Dyson has more airflow at the cleaner head and better agitation.




Post# 304372 , Reply# 3   11/3/2014 at 10:39 (3,432 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I would say the felix probably does a more thorough job, especially with the extremes of carpeting, in other words very low and very high pill carpeting. The felix is more consistent across floor types. The Felix doesn't do as well when it comes to hard floor cleaning. Suction seal I am sure has been improved. There is no leak around the hose where it slots into the bottom as there was on the previous model. I think it has a redesigned suction leak valve.

Because the Felix lays flat to the floor, I can lean it back and raise the head as I can with the dyson, but pulling the head up with my hand when it is on, it picks up the carpet just as much as the dyson.

What I intend to do is a comparison video between the old felix and the eco one, but putting the turbo tool on both to see which spins faster, to give some idea of the difference, if any.


Post# 304373 , Reply# 4   11/3/2014 at 10:41 (3,432 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I think the dyson does indeed have more agitation, but the bristles don't sink into the carpet as much. Difference with the Sebo is it will loose suction as the bag fills. Swings and roundabouts.

Post# 304374 , Reply# 5   11/3/2014 at 10:41 (3,432 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Good info here Oli and good to know there is no difference.

I adore my old Felix. Currently has a dust bag that is so very nearly full. I took it out last night and weighed it - 699 grams and it feels and looks like it needs to be disposed of but has just a near quarter of space left at the top.

I would be wary of removing those metal bars across the brush roller though. They are put there to keep the brush roll balanced as per its design as well as provides a barrier for any obstacles that might block the brush. Even my old SEBO 360 has those wire tie/bars.


Post# 304375 , Reply# 6   11/3/2014 at 10:44 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I'd like to see you do a comparison beyween the Dyson and the Felix.

I'm very surprised you find the Sebo performs better? I have found the opposite to be true.
And just the other week you said the Dyson picked up more than the Sebo? Oh well :-)


Post# 304376 , Reply# 7   11/3/2014 at 10:49 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
the Sebo is it will loose suction as the bag fills

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In all fairness, with all bagged vacuums I've used, the suction loss is never enough to hinder the performance. When Dyson first hit the market, they were carrying on as though the suction completely drops and the cleaner doesn't pick anything up with a full bag. This is, of course, not the case. A vacuum with a full bag will still pick up the same amount of dust and dirt as one with a new bag. It is, after all, only dust, dirt, hair and other very light particles that are vacuumed up - you're not exactly trying to suck bricks up with it.

Good point about the brushes sweeping into the carpet pile. Not such a big deal with a low pile carpet, I'd expect any vacuum to do relatively well on low pile, but certainly noticeable on deep pile. Would you say that there agitation on the DC41.2 is concentrated at the top of the pile and not getting as deep as the Felix?

It will certainly be interesting to see a comparison between both models of Felix, so thank you in advance for that.


Post# 304377 , Reply# 8   11/3/2014 at 10:51 (3,432 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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Still B for carpet is still A fantastic raiting. The Dyson would definitely clean better as just got  better suction at the cleaner head and better agitation but the The Sebo comes close as it has B on carpet and the Dyson has as A.


Post# 304380 , Reply# 9   11/3/2014 at 10:56 (3,432 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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My house we've got medium and thick carpet and shag carpet and it does fantastically on all. Is got that self adjusting clean Head to properly seal to the carpet no matter what type.

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Post# 304381 , Reply# 10   11/3/2014 at 11:00 (3,432 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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Forgot to say i do like that Sebo I might get one Some day. I think I do prefer the x4 as it looks a bit nicer and congratulations on your new purchase hope you like it :)

Post# 304382 , Reply# 11   11/3/2014 at 11:00 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

You are a very intelligent boy! :-)

Post# 304384 , Reply# 12   11/3/2014 at 11:02 (3,432 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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Me ???

Post# 304387 , Reply# 13   11/3/2014 at 11:09 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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I knew someone on here would jump on the ratings band wagon. The ratings labels are an absolute load of crap. Aside from the energy ratings (which are the only ones that seem to make any sense), they nonsense.

Josh, take a look at this link. This cheap Vax upright has an A rating for carpets, making it apparantly better on carpets than the Sebo and on-par with the Dyson on carpets. Would you agree?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Turbo500's LINK


Post# 304388 , Reply# 14   11/3/2014 at 11:12 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Guys you prefer bagged to bagless that's down to personal choice but you need to face up to the truth the Dyson has more airflow at the cleaner head and better agitation. It has been proved by Dyson :-)


Post# 304389 , Reply# 15   11/3/2014 at 11:16 (3,432 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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Never not every single rating can be wrong. A lot of them are but not all of them.

Post# 304390 , Reply# 16   11/3/2014 at 11:16 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Sorry, Marcus, but what's that got to do with anything? Josh was using the EU labeling system to justify that the Dyson is a better performer, I was simply pointing out the the labeling is an un-monitored, inacurate mess. If you're trying to demonstrate that X cleaner is better than Y, the ratings should probably be the last thing to use to show that as they don't stand for anything.

I'm not knocking the Dyson - I haven't used them yet, so I can't comment. Just pointing out that by using the ratings to back up your point, you don't have a leg to stand on.


Post# 304391 , Reply# 17   11/3/2014 at 11:19 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
A lot of them are but not all of them

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I'm not saying that the Dyson rating is wrong, but for the sake of consistency, using the ratings system to support an argument for any cleaner being better than another is a pointless waste of time. The labels are proving themselves to be absolute rubbish, as shown by that crappo-Vax above getting A ratings. I've yet to find a rating that accurate reflects the performance of the machine.

Post# 304393 , Reply# 18   11/3/2014 at 11:21 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I agree the ratings are nonsense. But I'm going on my personal experience having used both machines.

I love my Felix it has some advantages over the Dyson but airflow and agitation the Dyson wins.


Post# 304394 , Reply# 19   11/3/2014 at 11:24 (3,432 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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You're lucky you said the Sebo was your FAVOURITE bagged vacuum, if you said it was the BEST bagged vacuum, you would've just launched Kirby War III! tongue-out

 

You've made a great purchase! You got something better than a Dyson at a fraction of the price! tongue-out

 

Ok, seriously, jokes over! Congratulations on your purchase! What's that white tool in photo #2? Never seen it before! 


Post# 304395 , Reply# 20   11/3/2014 at 11:26 (3,432 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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There are others too, quite literally another two of them from Vax claiming to have "A" performance for carpets, yet both have straight suction floor tools and no turbo brush.





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Post# 304396 , Reply# 21   11/3/2014 at 11:26 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Not by a huge amount I'd say about 5 to 10% more dust and dirt pick up.

Post# 304397 , Reply# 22   11/3/2014 at 11:28 (3,432 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Are you referring to the tool holder? It requires to be put across the metal spine of the handle neck of the Felix where two tools can be stored top and bottom. Also slides down for height. I put one on my 360 since that commercial model only usually has one clip at the front.

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Post# 304400 , Reply# 23   11/3/2014 at 11:35 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Haha an A rating with a straight suction nozzle snd Miele has a D rating. Wow that Vax sucks!!!! Hilarious :)))

Post# 304402 , Reply# 24   11/3/2014 at 11:36 (3,432 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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I guess I am,I certainly don't know what the thing is! It's that white thingy in the 2nd photo in Oli's first post! Would you like me to point out which Dyson model this brushroll goes with, too? tongue-out

 

Those Vax machines certainly don't get an A for design in my book! tongue-out


Post# 304407 , Reply# 25   11/3/2014 at 11:53 (3,432 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well, the "thing" is a tool holder - big round barrel clips together designed to hold one tool on top, another on the bottom. Simples!

If only SEBO could do a bigger one of the X model!


Post# 304409 , Reply# 26   11/3/2014 at 11:57 (3,432 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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Thank you! Feel free to ask me if you need to know what any of these do! wink


Post# 304410 , Reply# 27   11/3/2014 at 12:02 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

BTW I thought it was the manufacturer that did the testing for the new rating? So surely the manufacturer would know how to set the correct height for the Felix?

Post# 304413 , Reply# 28   11/3/2014 at 12:07 (3,432 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Im not sure. Best to email SEBO UK if you really want to know.

Post# 304415 , Reply# 29   11/3/2014 at 12:12 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I don't really want to know. I won't mention Dyson anymore. I know what works best for me it's all about personal preference
My preference is now Dyson.:-)))))


Post# 304433 , Reply# 30   11/3/2014 at 14:46 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
My preference is now Dyson.:-)))))

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I find that a bit ridiculous. You've found ONE Dyson vacuum after years of admittedly mediocre machines. Fair enough if you're preference is that particular model, but what about the 21 years of Dyson vacuums previously that were all a bit crap, and the rest of the Dyson vacuums still on the market?


Post# 304434 , Reply# 31   11/3/2014 at 14:56 (3,432 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I need to clear up a few points made here.

I asked the Sebo lady and she said the tests at the moment are down to the manufacture. This is very unreliable as each manufacture is going to use different carpets. There is no say in how slowly or quickly the vacuums should be passing over, but she said she has seen a glimpse of how sebo test them and they throw their vacuums in at the deep end as it were and especially for hard flooring, they cover the floor with a grey mix of powder and crumbs, like a very thick amount. All in all it is very unreliable.

In fairness, when I had my s7 and Felix, as the bag filled it can loose suction but as mentioned, the difference is negligible.

The sebo and Dyson are very much on par in terms of carpet performance. I would say the sebo deep cleans better. The bristles on the Dyson dig deep kind of but the sebo pulls itself forward and really grooms the carpet. The Dyson cleans hard flooring better, but you get the kombi tool with the Felix which I will post a picture if later.

The Dyson looks as if it pulls up a lot of dust although I don't really know how much the sebo pulls up as you cant really see in the bag without tearing the bag open.

I have always loved the Felix as a bagged vacuum and for the reasons I have mentioned, I am preferring it as my daily vacuum. Its an improved version of the standard Felix.


Post# 304435 , Reply# 32   11/3/2014 at 14:56 (3,432 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)        

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The other dyson machines on the market today are fantastic They have very little differences.

Post# 304436 , Reply# 33   11/3/2014 at 14:58 (3,432 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Haha I really don't care about previous Dysons. What's past is past.It's the present that counts. Anyway I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Happy vacuuming :-)


Post# 304439 , Reply# 34   11/3/2014 at 15:54 (3,432 days old) by matt8808 (Teesside - North East - UK)        

Well everything else aside thanks for uploading the pic of inside the floor head!
Very interesting to see given its the same head thats on my D4 (I don't want to go pulling mine to bits)...

That motor looks a beast! Makes Dysons brush motors look like kids toys.

Oh and I also noticed the suction motor on the D4 eco has a kind of airflow wooshng whistle to it as it starts up / slows down like you mentioned on your Felix.

Enjoy your new machine :)


Post# 304440 , Reply# 35   11/3/2014 at 15:55 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Anyway I don't want to talk about it anymore

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...alright then. We'll just carry on without you...

Oli, you should vacuum the whole house with the Dyson and the suck up the contents of the full bin with the Sebo hose and then have a nosey inside the bag. The white, high efficiency bags are quite easy to see in. That should give you some kind of idea as to what a fill bin of dust actually looks like when it's compacted into a bag


Post# 304442 , Reply# 36   11/3/2014 at 15:57 (3,432 days old) by matt8808 (Teesside - North East - UK)        

A full Dyson bin of fluff would probably compact inside the bag to the size of an egg cup! Okay... Bit of an exageration but you get my drift right?

Post# 304443 , Reply# 37   11/3/2014 at 15:58 (3,432 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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Oh, another question, what is a semigewerbliche bodenpflege? smile


Post# 304444 , Reply# 38   11/3/2014 at 16:01 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
semigewerbliche bodenpflege

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It's what "Sebo" means. It translated as "semi-commercial floorcare" from German.


Post# 304446 , Reply# 39   11/3/2014 at 16:03 (3,432 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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Thanks, again! laughing


Post# 304448 , Reply# 40   11/3/2014 at 16:04 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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No problemo smile


Post# 304452 , Reply# 41   11/3/2014 at 16:16 (3,432 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Just a heads up regarding the exhaust filters, they're NOT machine washable. I've just got my Felix back off my Mum and washed the filter on a wool wash, no less, and it's still fallen apart. The blue cover has come away from the filter so it's a bugger to get back on properly. The black carbon dust hasn't come off either.


Post# 304469 , Reply# 42   11/3/2014 at 17:02 (3,432 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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What a pity the outer cover came off.

The black carbon won't come off the filter, but it will be clean enough (should be dark grey) to use again.

Meanwhile use CIF on a sponge to clean the main plastic of the inner plastic - best chance of giving the Felix a cleaner chance of being used again either with existing filter or a new outer one.


Post# 304490 , Reply# 43   11/3/2014 at 17:36 (3,432 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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Sebo-Fan,I love that profile picture!! Funny!! tongue-out


Post# 304555 , Reply# 44   11/4/2014 at 03:29 (3,431 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I have washed them, as have my two other relatives who have Felix's and they have come out fine. Spotlessly clean and no damage at all. We put them in a small items bags, on a fast wash and low intensity cycle. Do it at your own risk anyway.

There has been no problems with removing those metal bars at the brush roll. They are there to stop the fleix from chewing rugs. It would have nothing to do with "balancing the brushroll". It works for me anyways.

No I do love this machine. It just has a couple of improvements over the older felix and the same performance. Win win !


Post# 304557 , Reply# 45   11/4/2014 at 03:39 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

It may have improvements. But having used both the Felix and the Dyson I know which cleans better manoeuvres better filters better has a better hose assembly and no bags or filters to purchase. I have owned the Felix for 2 years and have been very impressed with it but the Dyson takes vacuuming to another level :-))))

Post# 304558 , Reply# 46   11/4/2014 at 03:47 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

And I would not be washing the exhaust filter as it has not been designed to be washed. If you are going to own a bagged cleaner change the filter after 10 bags as recommended.Also don't empty the bags and reuse them as they will not give the same airflow because the electrostatic membrane will become clogged


Post# 304561 , Reply# 47   11/4/2014 at 05:33 (3,431 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Well, it has worked for me and others I know who have done it. If it was causing damage of any sort of wasn't working properly, I would not be doing it, but so far, it is working.

Post# 304563 , Reply# 48   11/4/2014 at 05:55 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

If you want to be able to wash the filters and empty the bag/bin choose a cleaner that has been designed for this purpose. A bagless.
If you have a bagged cleaner change the bag when its full and change the filters at the recommended intervals.


Post# 304569 , Reply# 49   11/4/2014 at 06:10 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Removing anything invalidates the warranty

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Oli - respectively - SEBO advised me in the early days not to remove anything from the soleplate that can damage the motor. The brush roll is held in by the side plate and the fly wheel. If the brush roll gets damaged and the vacuum has been registered for the 5 year warranty, SEBO will not honour the warranty IF grids or anything else is removed from the soleplate. Be warned. I really don't care whether you find it improves anything. It shouldn't really - the ACTUAL SCIENCE of vacuum air between brush roll and carpet has a fine layer of space between the carpet pile and the brush roll as it spins. Having the grid in place allows carpets to be properly vacuumed by pushing against the pile - by removing the grid, you're in danger of the brush roll UNBALANCING against the pile.

Marcus - a nice point there regarding the washing of filters. One must remember that not all buyers are going out to buy Dyson because of the expensive prices - and lets face it Dyson vacs are even more expensive than SEBO with some models. Buyers may no longer have to deal with the dust bag but they'll have to deal with washing filters whether they "want to" or not.




Post# 304570 , Reply# 50   11/4/2014 at 06:18 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Washing the filter every 3 to 6 months is no big deal. Takes a couple of minutes. Yes Dysons are overpriced no denying that but you will save around £200 in filters and bags.
Anyway I have gone on about this topic for too long now. We all have our preferences what works for me might not work for someone else. Point is I have respect for Sebo very few have respect for Dyson even tho the DC41 Mk11 is extremely well engineered machine. I'll get off my soap box now :-)


Post# 304573 , Reply# 51   11/4/2014 at 06:20 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Infact when I think about it, bagged vacs traditionally didn't require filters - its only been the appearance of allergies that filters were introduced on clean air vacs and in some ways in the early days, another thing to buy for the vac to keep it ticking along.

As far as I can see there were two main loyal owners of two particular brands - one brand didn't bother with upright filters whilst the other was far ahead of its time and required a filter to be replaced.

Now, even on a price competitive bagged upright such as Panasonic models or even Hoover's Purepower uprights, the filter care is a low level concern compared to those on a bagless vac. In short, bagless vacs aren't exactly that much of an improvement even if they do eliminate on buying dust bags.


Post# 304575 , Reply# 52   11/4/2014 at 06:27 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I think Sebo did a good thing by putting the S class filter before the motor on the X series and the K series as it not only filters the dust be it also gives excellent protection to the motor ensuring a very long trouble free life. :-)

Post# 304576 , Reply# 53   11/4/2014 at 06:32 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

And I was comparing the Dyson to the Sebo not Panasonic or hoover. And if you're an allergy sufferer as myself then good quality filters are essential. There are millions of allergy sufferers in the UK. And these filters have to be changed on a bagged cleaner. Miele HEPA filters are £20 plus £2.50 each bag.

Post# 304589 , Reply# 54   11/4/2014 at 09:47 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
It doesn't really matter regarding what bagged upright you compare to Dyson, though in my experience. The filters on SEBO may be higher than ones fitted to Hoover or Panasonic, or even any other brand - what matters more is the fact that ANY bagless vac requires far more filter care which is useless for anyone with a dust allergy.

I don't agree that filters have to be changed on a upright with every brand though, Marcus. The only manufacturer who brainwashes short cost consumable parts is Miele in my experience.

With the SEBO X, the microfilter can be brushed clean, giving it a bit more time before it needs to be replaced. However, on some models I know some owners don't even bother changing the microfilter, undoing the computer ties and giving it a wash before installing it back onto the plastic grid sock and using fresh computer ties to keep it on. A few sellers on Amazon UK are now selling SEBO microfilters in this way to cut down costs on selling the complete unit with the plastic grid sock.

I haven't ever done this, but I have had a microfilter that wasn't replaced for three years - I didn't notice any less quality of the vacuum air that the SEBO put out. But I did brush clean the filter at different times whenever it looked dirty. Did I sneeze when I came into contact with the dirt? No. I did sneeze however when removing the dog hair that got stuck up the cyclone bin of my Vax Mach Air!

Granted there is also a carbon filter for the SEBO X motor - but the carbon emissions are low and less harmful with the filter in place. Carbon isn't such a big issue from a vacuum cleaner when central heating systems produce far more of the stuff, just because you can't see it. Plus, other uprights on the market don't have a carbon filter like the SEBO, other than maybe a few Hoover bagless uprights.

I think if you have a dust allergy, then the first thing your home requires is a decent air purifier rather than relying on a vacuum cleaner with high grade filters alone.


Post# 304590 , Reply# 55   11/4/2014 at 09:56 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes I have a Blueair air purifier which has made a big difference. I highly recommend them to allergy sufferers.:-)




Post# 304593 , Reply# 56   11/4/2014 at 10:13 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
My aunt has a Bionaire and it seems to be very good. She also has my Panasonic bagged upright and a few other vacuums - all of them are bagged. Some are less than perfect but crucially they don't seem to make her allergies bad.

Post# 304594 , Reply# 57   11/4/2014 at 10:21 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

That's a good combination a HEPA sealed vacuum cleaner and an air purifier. It can make a big difference.An air purifier is a good idea for anyone really as breathing clean filtered air into the lungs can help everyone in the long term allergies or not :-)

Post# 304596 , Reply# 58   11/4/2014 at 10:28 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well, truthfully, or more realistically, HEPA filters aren't really HEPA by design - the proper ones derived from nuclear factories have far more layers including metal based layers.

HEPA filters in vacuums tend to be just paper pleats to trap dust particles. There should be more added in my experience, but then I think the costs would go up and its about time manufacturers made the HEPA cartridges with gloss repelling paper pleats to aid washing of them better for long term care. Some brands like the Panasonic upright I bought have a completely manufactured paper pleated cartridge that can't be washed - otherwise it disintegrates, thus requiring a costly replacement.

Earlier this year Miele also changed their filters - the Active Air Clean filters offer better value than their HEPA ones IMHO and being on average £5 or so less expensive may have something to do with it. The new ones appear to have no charcoal layers fitted (though I may be wrong, but there was confusion on here due to some U.S members reporting that the HEPA filter does have charcoal fitted).

The Miele AAC filters have charcoal added AS WELL as the paper pleated cartridge - but as far as I know the newer HEPA filters have eliminated the charcoal layer now and have just added paper pleats.


Post# 304599 , Reply# 59   11/4/2014 at 10:55 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes making them washable would be a good move. But it's not in their interests as it would hit their profits. The miele HEPA filter I have which is almost due for change does have a layer of charcoal
Not sure if the latest ones do. They have this time strip thing in them now to alert you when to change them
I don't take any notice of that. Supposed to get 50 hours out of the filter so i just estimate how long I use it weekly and work out roughly when 50 hours of use will be. I get about 2 years out of it.


Post# 304600 , Reply# 60   11/4/2014 at 11:06 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

And you are correct there are higher levels of HEPA filtration for critical situations but they would be too expensive for domestic vacuum cleaners.

Post# 304604 , Reply# 61   11/4/2014 at 11:45 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Miele reach Hepa13 level but it can go up to HEPA17 level. Which removes 99.999995% of particles down to 0.1 micron. Haha that is going some :-)

Post# 304606 , Reply# 62   11/4/2014 at 13:39 (3,431 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
Thanks oliveoiltinfoil for you detailed overview and pictures of your me SEBO Felix Vogue Eco. Interesting reading. Glad to here the new 700 watt Eco motor still gives the same performance against the original Felix. Loved the strip down of the ET-1 power head, nice to see the inside. The Eco Felix seems to look the same in design anyway. Wouldn't of thought removing though thin metal strips on the soleplate on the power head would make much difference, have you noticed any difference in doing so?Think they have changed the cable design where it leaves the handle at the top. Think they changed that already on the non Eco ones. I take it the Vogue just comes with the 2 standard tools?

Glad to here your enjoying your new Felix, hope it serves you well.

Not sure if I would upgrade my 7 year old Felix for the new Eco version while it's still working great. Still yet to change both pre and post filters. Would love an X series although the new Eco versions I would think would be the same as the non Eco models as there is only 200 watt difference on the X4 and 50 wattage on the X1.1. Must go and try the new Eco SEBO models.


Post# 304607 , Reply# 63   11/4/2014 at 13:40 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
And yet the filters on Bosch vacuums ensures that the exhaust air is 99.997% clean

Post# 304608 , Reply# 64   11/4/2014 at 13:42 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes that's similar to Miele. Sebo fan you mentioned that people with allergies shouldn't be washing filters so I'll get my wife to wash them hahahaha :))))

Post# 304609 , Reply# 65   11/4/2014 at 13:49 (3,431 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Filters

turbo500's profile picture

I couldn't be doing with washing filters all the damn time. It's so messy and unhygienic to be coming into direct contact with all the dust. Not to mention the microscopic allergens that inevitably fly off the filter when you remove it from the vacuum and the user ends up breathing in. YUK.

 

Of course, the real problem with washable filters is that it's near impossible to remove ALL the dirt from the filter. It's never as clean as a brand new one.

 

I'll stick to throwing such items in the bin, thanks. Seal the bag up, no dust escaping, no dust cloud, no contact.


Post# 304610 , Reply# 66   11/4/2014 at 13:50 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Oh here we go again :)

Post# 304611 , Reply# 67   11/4/2014 at 13:52 (3,431 days old) by blakaeg (NW London, UK)        

Great machine. I've used the 700 Felix and it was great, did not notice any huge difference between the 2 wattages.

I'd advise anyone against with a machine under warranty that removing the wires in the brush housing, lubricating the bearing block or metal shaft of the handle as it would invalidate the warranty.

Sebo have advised me that the exhaust filter should not require maintenance for a few years but is easily replaceable should you wish to change it. I did ask about washing but they don't advise it. By the looks of it though, it can withstand washing if one chooses. The 7 year old Classic still has the original filter on it and the performance has not been affected, it's only got carbon dust on it.

I love how aggressive the brush is on the Felix and whenever I use the Classic model at my friends place, I use it on number 1.


Post# 304613 , Reply# 68   11/4/2014 at 13:57 (3,431 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Oh here we go again :)

turbo500's profile picture

That's pretty much my reaction everytime you bring up that blasted DC41mk2 in every single thread.


Post# 304614 , Reply# 69   11/4/2014 at 13:58 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Turbo if Sebo offered washable filters their customers would be very happy :-))))

Post# 304615 , Reply# 70   11/4/2014 at 13:59 (3,431 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

turbo500's profile picture

I wouldn't be.

 

Incidentally, I don't think most customers even realise their vacuum has a filter half the time.


Post# 304617 , Reply# 71   11/4/2014 at 14:02 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Haha that might be true. You might not be happy with washable filters but I would take a guess most would be. :-) If miele made there HEPA filter washable i would be very happy! :-)

Post# 304618 , Reply# 72   11/4/2014 at 14:07 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

And I agree I have been going on about the Dyson too much so I won't be mentioning again unless someone asks me about it of course :-)

Post# 304624 , Reply# 73   11/4/2014 at 15:14 (3,431 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
Blakaeg my Felix Classic still has the same post motor fabric filter after 7 years and pre motor filter which is a bit dirty now. I must replace them at some point but it's not effecting the performance. Even the brush bar doesn't seem to have worn yet.

Post# 304626 , Reply# 74   11/4/2014 at 15:26 (3,431 days old) by marcusprit ()        

You haven't changed the filter in 7 years? Your poor Felix must be suffocating :-))

Post# 304653 , Reply# 75   11/4/2014 at 16:48 (3,431 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
I literally can't make any thread about my new vacuum purchase without someone bashing be down for doing this or saying that.

The person who advised me on taking those metal bars out was a good friend of my dads who got his felix classic in 2006. He took the bars out soon after he got that, and that was 8 years ago and guess what? He has had 0 problems. NO PROBLEMS. It doesn't damage the vacuum at all! It is not mechanical, they are not their for strength, if they were they wouldn't have come out so easily, they would have been put there with tension. This guy is called Graham, he used to have a vacuum shop in the south before handing it to his son when he went into retirement,
and he strips down his felix and cleans it, and I means strips it down, even taking the carbon brushes off and inspecting them. Doing this must have done something as his felix looks and sounds like a brand new felix you can buy today. HE lubricates the bearings, sprays WD40 near the shaft of the motor, and now washes the exhaust filter in the washing machine. Of course SEBO are going to say "no don't do that" if it means they filters are lasting longer than they should. They are a business! They want your money!

Taking those bars out, I can not see how that has anything to do with balancing anything. The bristles to touch and overlap the bars but only slightly, not enough to push against the brush bar. I have found that by removing them, you get a genuine, proper clean sweep of agitation from each side.

At the end of the day, it is my vacuum. If I mess it up or damage it, I only have myself to blame, but based on experience on what I am doing and have done to the Felix's I have worked on, this doesn't damage them or effect them in any negative way. If it would have, I wouldn't be doing it.

Thank you @madaboutsebo. Yes, the vogue comes with a KOMBI tools, I shall post picture of if I haven't already.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK


Post# 304654 , Reply# 76   11/4/2014 at 16:48 (3,431 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
No I've not I know a bit naughty, to be fair the first 3 years I owned it I hardly used it that much as I still owned my Dyson vacuums. It's only been used regularly in the last 4 years. The pre motor filter has dirt on it not looking to bad and I've checked the post motor filter just has carbon dust on it. Performance is ok, since using the synthetic bags the airflow is better. I must change them though soon :-)

Post# 304660 , Reply# 77   11/4/2014 at 17:17 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
You've come onto this forum respectively to share your opinions Oli but you must also understand that plenty of owners on here regarding SEBO and other brands have their own experiences both from ownership and from contacting the actual brand.

SEBO aren't out to fob people off and both Blakaeg and I have had official responses from SEBO. It doesn't matter what your dad's friend has done and what he does to his own SEBO Felix. Suggesting taking anything off the ET-1 which is the Felix's main unit to why the design exists is a bit foolish. It may well work for you in your opinion but there are plenty of others here who have longer experiences.

As for washing filters - SEBO aren't a company who offer washable parts. But they are not alone as Miele also use replaceable parts to PURGE THE VACUUM CLEANER instead of reusing filters. As Chris rightly notes, washing filters don't clear them completely of the dirt already embedded.

Hence the introduction and invention of the SEBO DISCO polisher, which uses dry pads to polish a floor versus wet cleaning.

In general I have noticed that German companies don't wash and reuse things that are required to carry dirt UNLESS they have specific designs to contain it properly and have filters that can cope with being washed and cleaned thoroughly. Karcher spring to mind here, but they have a chequered reputation due to some of their cylinder vacs being poorly built against their more expensive wet and dry commercial upright (and a machine I would love to buy!)

karcher upright




Sebo Dart polisher/Felix Disco






Post# 304661 , Reply# 78   11/4/2014 at 17:25 (3,431 days old) by Marks_here (_._)        

marks_here's profile picture
Ya know whenever I feel down I can always come on here & read all the fighting/bashing over what??? A vacuum??? My entertainment has hit an all time low admitting this😪 & now everyone will know my secret to being happy all the time.... Read the brand bashing!!😁 it makes ya feel better knowing someone you've just bought something subpar that won't last more then a squirt of piss will😱

Post# 304663 , Reply# 79   11/4/2014 at 17:28 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
In recent weeks its been continually Dyson Vs Kirby; what a pity no other brands seem to get a look in.

Post# 304664 , Reply# 80   11/4/2014 at 17:29 (3,431 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
Your welcome oliveoiltinfoil, thank you for answering my question. Thats great it comes with the Kombi tool, I've never used one but it looks like a good floor tool especially for hard floors. I have the Deluxe Parquet Floor tool with my Classic, which I love using on my tiled floor.

Post# 304667 , Reply# 81   11/4/2014 at 17:33 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I seldom use the hard floor tool. I have two of them - one came free with another SEBO vac. The Kombi is better on the cylinder vacs IMHO. I find the weight of the Felix onto the Kombi head is just a little heavier than I would like.

Post# 304670 , Reply# 82   11/4/2014 at 17:38 (3,431 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
I only use mine for the tiled floor as I find it picks up better than using the ET-1 power head. I would like to see a sealing strip but at the back of the nozzle head of the ET-1 like the X series has for when using on hard floors.

Post# 304679 , Reply# 83   11/4/2014 at 17:51 (3,431 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
As far as I know, because the ET-1 has that brush roll on/off function, there is no need to have a sealing strip, plus it is different to the auto sensor mechanism on the X.

Post# 304984 , Reply# 84   11/6/2014 at 01:37 (3,430 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
That's true. Must admit a prefer the Deluxe Parquet head to vacuum hard floors over the ET-1 power head.

Post# 305011 , Reply# 85   11/6/2014 at 06:08 (3,429 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I don't - the reason being is that all of a sudden the weight of the Felix body becomes quite heavy to push with just a very lightweight brush floor tool jammed onto it at the end.

The Deluxe Kombi is slightly better - but the ET-1 is great at hard floor cleaning in my home - I don't need to use the hard floor brushes at all, which is the reason to why they never get used.


Post# 305017 , Reply# 86   11/6/2014 at 07:41 (3,429 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
I agree with you there you do get the full weight of the Felix body using the Deluxe Parquet head. I would love to try the Deluxe Kombi head at some point.

I have used the ET-1 power head on level 1 with the brush bar off but I find it doesn't pickup all the pet hair off the tiled flooring mainly from the edges as the pet hair sticks to the sealant around the edges. The brushes on the Deluxe Parquet head helps remove the pet hair.

I'm loving the mini turbo head I've got now, makes stair cleaning a breeze. Wish I got one sooner.


Post# 305020 , Reply# 87   11/6/2014 at 08:45 (3,429 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
You can use the brush roll on tile - I use it on my own tiles in my bathroom. Thats the beauty of the SEBO Et-1 - you can use the brush roll if you need to, or change the setting.

Post# 305021 , Reply# 88   11/6/2014 at 09:08 (3,429 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
Thanks for the tip Sebo_fan never thought about that didn't know if the brush bar might mark the tiles I have as they are glossy ones. Do you use the standard brush bar on your tiles or the delicate one? Suppose I could buy the delicate brush bar. I will give it a try thanks again. Least I wouldn't have to clean off the pet hairs that stick to the brush strips on the Deluxe Parquet head.

Post# 305032 , Reply# 89   11/6/2014 at 10:48 (3,429 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
I have not found the Kombi attached to the felix to be any problem, as most of the weight is on the two back wheels. However I know that a few customers of the felix have commented on the vacuum being unstable, which I have never found to be a problem to be honest.

I am going to make a thread later about the new Sebo Felix bags, as it looks like they have redesigned them. They feel and look much more like Miele bags with really wide, durable stitching. I only noticed when I got my bags delivered, courtesy of the £10 argos voucher when I got the felix.


Post# 305040 , Reply# 90   11/6/2014 at 11:59 (3,429 days old) by marcusprit ()        

A thread on the bag? Very good :-)

Post# 305043 , Reply# 91   11/6/2014 at 12:10 (3,429 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The vacuum is unstable because the floor head will not allow the whole of the Felix to stand up properly. So many owners forget that there is a rubberised ball at the end of the handle to allow the Felix to rest on a wall if that Deluxe Kombi floor head is used.

I seldom use the DK floor head on carpet = even with low suction, it isn't the lightest to move. It is fine on hard floors because you have both the fixed bristle brushes and the wheels to aid movement but on carpet, there is more resistance involved.

The other thing, or rather compromise that HAS to be made with either the DK or Parquet floor tool is the simple fact that you can't pivot the Felix over rugs. The whole machine has to be lifted over rugs or mats because of the double joint neck. That's fine when all you have are the some 500 to 540g metal tubes of either the K series or D series choice to tubing - not when you have 3.7kg of the Felix upright.



Post# 305073 , Reply# 92   11/6/2014 at 18:15 (3,429 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Haahha! "A thread on the bag," well yeah must seem pointless but they are quite different from the normal ones and feels as thick as the mieles, yet they are no more expensive than they used to be. They may be even more efficient, or at least if they have the same efficiency, they look more durable.

Post# 305112 , Reply# 93   11/7/2014 at 01:46 (3,429 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Sebo bags have improved but the new 3D Miele bags are the best I've seen. And they now hold 20% more dirt so the GN bags are approaching 5.5 litres. :-)

Post# 305113 , Reply# 94   11/7/2014 at 02:46 (3,428 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
I must admit the deluxe parquet head is very flexible and manoverable in tight spaces on hard floors but so is the ET-1 head too. I would like to see the Deluxe Parquet and Kombi heads designed so you can stand the machine upright on it own bit like Vorwerk VK150 hard floor tool.

Oliveoiltinfoil have SEBO changed the synthetic bags then? I do prefer the synthetic bags over the paper they are the same price but you get 8 in a box where the paper ones you got 10 I believe.


Post# 305117 , Reply# 95   11/7/2014 at 03:38 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I'm not aware that the synthetic bags for the Felix have changed recently but I'll take olive oils word for it.

Post# 305118 , Reply# 96   11/7/2014 at 03:49 (3,428 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
That's why I was wondering and asking. I'm only on my first box of synthetic bags half way through them so they will last into next year before I buy anymore.

If the new E series is going to be using its own style bags probably SEBO has been doing some more research and development on their synthetic bags and improved them!


Post# 305119 , Reply# 97   11/7/2014 at 04:01 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes that could be true. I'm really looking forward to the E series it could well become my favourite cylinder which is currently the Miele S8.

Post# 305126 , Reply# 98   11/7/2014 at 05:10 (3,428 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
To be honest, I don't know what Miele could do to improve the capacity on their dust bags.

As a fan of the brand for more than ten years, their older IntensiveClean dust bags were just as good with a pull slip at the front. They were much thinner than the higher grid bonded HyClean bags and a lot of buyers did feel crushed to having to spend a lot of money on the newer designed bags.

Although Miele may well claim extra room, it is really down to the bag chamber design. My old S571 in its day was the starter of the S500 range, a mid-size cylinder vac - the bag would take 3 months to fill and it was an old FJM dust bag which bordered out to 4.5 litres, not the 3.5 litre capacity that the newer and more compact S4 and S6 models have.

It comes down to personal experience with bag usage.

For me, SEBO wins at the end of the day for the fact that you get nearly twice as many bags with most of their vacuums. A box of SEBO dust bags can last me 1.5 years to 2 years dependent on the model and of course usage. Since SEBO brought out their synthetic disposable bags for the Felix for example, I've yet to finish the original pack I bought.

As for the Deluxe and Kombi floor tools - I don't think it would be a good idea to have them take the weight of the Felix body completely. I don't think they could handle having all that on top and they would have to be made substantially thicker to carry the weight, not just forgetting that the vacuum would fall over from the front if the floor heads were not made bigger width wise to compensate.

This is a current problem I'm finding with my new Hoover Idol stick vac.


Post# 305128 , Reply# 99   11/7/2014 at 05:21 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I wasn't arguing that Sebo's are cheaper to run Miele they clearly are. I'm saying that the Miele bag is the best I've seen with 9 layers.

Good to see Sebo improving though.


Post# 305130 , Reply# 100   11/7/2014 at 05:28 (3,428 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Yes, but and I didn't want to say this - but I will now.

Miele are clever with their marketing! The more layers they add, the more money they charge. It's all about business and less about health. The current filters available are evidence of that - the Active Air Clean which I use is cheaper to buy than the so-called "HEPA" filter for those with allergies. I can promise you that there is very little difference between the two. Miele knew that for years - the reason being that the current TimeStrip filters no longer have the charcoal added to the HEPA filter grid that Miele overly charge.

On the basis that Miele claim BOTH filters shift 99.95% of allergen/emissions, one has to ask what is the point of the HEPA filter if it can't shift more over the carbon added Active Air Clean filter?

Smell the coffee yet?>


Post# 305134 , Reply# 101   11/7/2014 at 05:46 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Well if that is correct that the active air filter filters just as well then I agree with you. I'm not convinced that it does though. Its just a piece if felt. The carbon filters odour. The HEPA media must filter better. But if as you say it's only a tiny amount then I might try the active air cleaner next time.


Post# 305137 , Reply# 102   11/7/2014 at 05:55 (3,428 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The AAC filter originally carried the promise "suitable for smokers and pet owners."

Now, over the smoking aspect which is clearly obvious that the carbon can soak up and neutralise, what does it do for pet owners? Absorbs the smell of pet hair and pet allergen. Hence why SEBO's charcoal filters are available ALSO for pet owners.

Im not sure what "felt" you are referring to, though.

The name "media" has only been applied to HEPA in recent years. In my experience it refers to a washable HEPA filter that not all brands choose to call it. Bissell have used the name "Media" to suggest that their HEPA filters are washable and only contain paper pleats behind a plastic grid.


Post# 305138 , Reply# 103   11/7/2014 at 05:59 (3,428 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The other thing to remember here is that Im giving you my experience and my knowledge. Miele and so many other brands would like to think otherwise.

When I handed over my old SEBO X1A to my aunt who has asthma and other breathing difficulties, there was no need at the time to install the charcoal filter in the SEBO. She didn't feel that the vacuum cleaner was emitting "rotting air" or whatever was in the bag at the time. I did offer the charcoal filter but she didn't require it.

A lot of the time it comes down to a lot of marketing and the requirement to buy the best at the highest price. However with actual experience, a basic filter can often supply a good performance IF the vacuum cleaner in question has been built well, contains air flow and suction without any leaking.


Post# 305145 , Reply# 104   11/7/2014 at 06:19 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

And I am grateful for passing on your experience and have a lot of respect for you :-)

Post# 305147 , Reply# 105   11/7/2014 at 06:41 (3,428 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Thank you - and you - but I was also like a lot of people who was literally sucked in by the promises and claims. There's a lot to be said for factual testing in general.

The other main problem is that no matter what brands tell you, in a controlled laboratory where test data may be recorded, it is entirely different to an actual home.


Post# 305149 , Reply# 106   11/7/2014 at 06:47 (3,428 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
it is entirely different to an actual home

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An EXCELLENT point.

In my experience, no one house is the same in terms of cleaning requirements. With so many different bare floor types, different carpets, differnt styles of furniture and materials used. This doesn't even factor in different personal cirumstances - kids, pets, elderly relatives, how much time spent in the house, proximity to main roads and traffic, proximity to factories/farm land/woodland, where the house was built in relation to water tables, wind direction and speed etc, even the country in question and the local weather impacts on the build up of dirt and dust in a house.

No one house is the same to clean. Hence, what works for some people, doesn't for others. It's all about finding the balance of what works the best for you.

I mean, X vacuum might get an A rating for emmisions in a lab enviroment for picking up Y grams of dust and only blowing out Z particles, but in a home enviroment, the same cleaner might blow out absolutely heaps of dust because that particular home has filthy carpets to begin with.


Post# 305151 , Reply# 107   11/7/2014 at 07:13 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Oh I agree. But at least it can give consumers a rough guide which is better than none at all, providing a standard independant testing procedure comes along hopefully in the near future.


Post# 305152 , Reply# 108   11/7/2014 at 07:39 (3,428 days old) by spiraclean (UK)        

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Manufacturers that use phrases such as "HEPA type" or "HEPA media" are only stating what material the filter is made of. Whether or not it actually filters to that standard is an entirely different matter altogether, and depends largely on how the filter is constructed. Many customers aren't clued up enough to know the difference and manufacturers are well aware of that.

A true HEPA filter will have been tested and verified to meet the correct standard. In such instances the manufacturer has nothing to hide, and will usually be happy to state the filter efficiency as a percentage, either on the cleaner itself or in their marketing bumf. At the very least they will divulge this information with a quick phone call.

It's also worth checking with the manufacturer to see how they test for filtration efficiency. Do they test the filter by itself, or the cleaner as a whole? Even the best HEPA filter is worthless if dust particles leak out from all around it when the cleaner is running.

For the most part it's all academic anyway, as the average healthy person does not require such an exacting standard of filtration. Those that do will have already been to their GP, referred for testing and actually diagnosed with a dust allergy. Using a vacuum with absolute filtration will count for nothing the minute they step outside the house to go about their daily lives, though.


Post# 305159 , Reply# 109   11/7/2014 at 08:24 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

The Miele vacuum has been independently certified and verified to reach HEPA standard.

And an allergy specialist will tell you if you can have a room such a bedroom that has a hard floor , bedding encased with anti dust mite covers you can reduce your symptoms significantly as you will get a break from the allergens that are causing the symptoms.So a HEPA certified vacuum that doesn't :increase allergens into the air you breath plus an air purifier and encasing your mattress pillows and duvet will help greatly as I have found from personal experience. I no longer need any medication. And there are millions of people who suffer from allergies and sadly it is increasing.


Post# 305175 , Reply# 110   11/7/2014 at 09:09 (3,428 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Of course you can diminish the symptoms "greatly," but having a HEPA filter in a vacuum cleaner won't eliminate dust in the air.

Post# 305179 , Reply# 111   11/7/2014 at 09:18 (3,428 days old) by marcusprit ()        

It might not illiminate dust in the air but a vacuum cleaner with poor filtration will certainly increase the allergen particles in the air increasing your symtoms.

And the more dust you pick up which is about 90% skin cells btw the more of this dust you pick up and keep inside the vacuum the less likely it is to affect you.

But as i say a Miele Vacuum along with a good air purifier and the other measures i have taken have alieviated my symtoms and i'm happy to say i have helped others using the same measures :)


Post# 312815 , Reply# 112   1/21/2015 at 15:19 (3,353 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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2 and a half months on and I am still very much enjoying my Felix Vogue eco. I really do appreciate its design and the way it looks. The white/cream is really rather attractive. Had various people coming round and having the cleaner out in the kitchen for example and people saying either "wow that is posh" or "what the hell is that" to which I reply "probably the best vacuum cleaner for this price.

I use this in conjunction with my Bosch athlete which incidental got replaced about 4 weeks into me having it (around 4 months ago now) due to a naff battery that was lasting little more than 6 minutes on full power, even bosch admitted that. The replacement one has been great since.

I have just popped in in my 3rd bag, which is the newly designed bags for the felix which look similar to Mieles bags. Having already used one, they maintain suction better, they don't leak at all (the previous one sometimes would) and they don't smell anywhere near as much as they used to. I don't know if sebo are using a different type of material, but it works.

You really do notice the difference in heat generation between this and the previous model. The eco model creates very little heat now, and it a fair bit quieter, making more of a whistling sound. Sounds quite nice really. Does anyone have any idea who make these motors? I have a feeling it is Bosch, but I may be wrong.

So yeah, this is my go to vacuum. Just does the job well. I do need to get a dusting brush for it though, but the one you get from sebo for this cleaner isn't the best, the bristle are a little too harsh and too long, they get sucked into the hose rendering it useless more or less. Does anyone know of any decent aftermarket one for these cleaners?


Post# 312848 , Reply# 113   1/21/2015 at 17:56 (3,353 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The bristles are fine with both sizes that SEBO sell - either the smaller dusting brush originally equipped with the K series, but also C series OR the larger dust brush which I recommend - on the basis that both of mine have lasted a few years, haven't damaged anything and don't put scrapes on anything, I'd say they are built to last. The larger one is better though in my opinion as the lower suction doesn't allow the bristles to compact up in the dust channel hole.

Either dust brush would require either a clip to the Felix handle spine (but then you'd lose out on height adjustment of the handle) or swap around the main tool you don't use much of.

The more modern D dusting brush can also be used, but it doesn't come with a clamp - has similar bristles to Miele's round dusting brush.


Post# 312849 , Reply# 114   1/21/2015 at 18:00 (3,353 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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Thanks for posting an update on your SEBO Eco Felix Vogue. Glad to here you are enjoying using it. It's good to know the new improved synthetic bags are better than the first generation will have to get some once I've used this current box!

I've only tried the new Eco Felix which happened to be the Vogue model in John Lewis and I was impressed with the performance for only a 700 watt motor. I agree it sounded quieter and I noticed less heat generated from it too. I thought or it felt to me as if it had more suction to the previous higher watt models.

Hope you continue to enjoy your new SEBO.


Post# 312869 , Reply# 115   1/21/2015 at 21:17 (3,353 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Given that the law stipulates a move to 900 watts later on in just a few years time, it is also good to see SEBO releasing this 700 watt Felix now rather than two-tier move that other companies are doing with 1200 watts and 700 watt options. Lets not forget the 175 watt ET-1 power nozzle, but I am surprised SEBO haven't lowered the ET-1 alone motor watts in respect of the EU law. I know they don't have to, but it would be interesting to see a lower motor, I think.

Post# 313245 , Reply# 116   1/24/2015 at 17:21 (3,350 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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175 watt does seem a lot for a brush bar motor, but those powerheads really do pack a punch. They don't slow down even on plush pile carpeting, and as you know, they pull the vacuum forward quite noticeably. What I think would be quite interesting, although it probably wont happen, is if SEBO use Numatic new 580 watt motor, which Numatic say has 10% more suction power that even the previous 1200 watt model. That in a Felix or sebo upright would be very interesting. Its not exactly as if they previous Henry motor was lacking in power as well. I know that SEBO and Numatic are tied up in some way, with Numatic branded vacuums made by Sebo being sold in Germany, think they are the G series Sebos.

Post# 313248 , Reply# 117   1/24/2015 at 17:35 (3,350 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Im sure I read somewhere that SEBO have a healthy relationship contract with Bosch who supplies the motors to some of their vacuums - it would reiterate the "Made in Germany" principle rather than using the GB Numatic. And lets face it, though the Germans might want to forget WW2 in a hurry, they're not exactly known for forging British and Germany relationships particularly well - look at Rover and BMW!

Shoe horning a 580w watt motor into a SEBO may not provide the instant answer. The layout is different for starters from a tub canister to an upright.


Post# 313257 , Reply# 118   1/24/2015 at 18:30 (3,350 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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This made me laugh. I am half German on my late Fathers side, due to the industry he was in and what I now do for a living, I spend a lot of time in various parts of Germany and basically, that statement is very much incorrect. We have forged more cooperations with the Germans and German companies than most of Europe, including the French. I guess BMW and Rolls Royce, and Volkswagen and Bentley don't mean much then ahah. All W12 engines in the Volkswagen and Audi range are now going to be built by Bentley in Crew, so a prestigious German car such as a flagship Audi A8 will have a British made engine, the recommended oil in Volkswagen group cars is Castrol, again Castrol being British, the list goes on and that doesn't even include military projects such as Eurofighter GmbH. Also, the pre 2011 Felix used an Amtek motor, Amtek being Italian, so it is probably less to do with where the motor or part comes from, and more to do with tis performance, however, they will probably be more inclined to use a German parts supplier not only because of patriotism, but geographically, if the Bosch motor is made in Germany, the supply link will be faster.

Post# 313270 , Reply# 119   1/24/2015 at 20:11 (3,350 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Apologies in advance if you feel Im being abrupt.. but

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Oh yes, I know you're half German. You've reminded many a time of that fact continually. Good for you. I am not German, yet I have relatives in Munich, Koln and Nurnberg, most of which have been there since the 1960s.

Germany as a nation has always had a strong economy, helped along by nationalistic brands to save the German public from buying anything that is imported. They know a good brand when they see one and both Bentley & RR weren't exactly healthy when VW acquired Bentley and BMW with RR. Who can afford these prestigious brands? You?

The mere statement that you make "all W12 engines are going to be built by Bentley in Crewe," (Crewe, not Crew) begs the question to why they weren't produced there in the first place? The Germans are not interested in forming loyal, strengthening ties but rather just manufacture and to keep their costs low - after all VW were one of the first companies to recognise cheap manufacturing setting up their first factory in China in the 1980s. All other major brands shifted to the U.S including MB for car assembly.

There is also a great article online that states more about the "Made In Germany" campaign that I can explain.. "The designation “Made in Germany” is not a protected seal of quality. Nevertheless, many German people have confidence in this seal. Quality plays a prominent role in purchasing products like toys 80 %, food 70 %, kitchen appliances 63 %, cars 56 %, clothes and entertainment electronics 41 % (cf. N.N., www.business-wissen.de..., 16/04/2012). Services and products from Germany and Switzerland are considered as unique, high quality, reliable and valuable, not only in Germany but also overseas.

The overall impression of products and services in twelve countries shows that there is a three-class society. Products and services from Switzerland, Germany and Japan are classified as excellent. USA, Great Britain, Austria, France and Italy are located in the middle class and in the worst class there are Brazil, Russia, India and China. Germany ranks among the top class with 72 % (cf. Feige et al, 17/04/2012)…."


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK


Post# 313314 , Reply# 120   1/25/2015 at 10:25 (3,349 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I think I have mentioned the fact I am half Germany maybe a couple of times ahah. Not entirely sure I believe those statistics, as they don't quite add up. Austria is most akin to Germany out of the "middle quality countries", and I am not sure what vacuum cleaner, kettle or insurance company is widely common in Germany. If it was a governing poll, or a poll conducted by a seemingly legitimate Germany magazine then maybe, but discrete magazines making up statistics is something common everywhere, although I know for a fact Germans will buy German where possible, the French will buy French, the Swiss will buy Swiss, where as the British will buy any countries products, not through choice, but mainly because we don't make anything anymore.

I don't quite understand your logic behind the W12 engines not being produced in Crewe before hand. VW only bought Bentley 15 years ago and W12 engines were developed around 20 years ago, by Volkswagen. There is still a prestigious element attached to British made products despite what yourself or these polls suggest. Having a Bentley engine in your Audi is something many people will admire.

Forming loyal ties is something that a lot of companies an countries wont do through choice, but more to do with economics, for developing and producing things together is much more affordable. Look at Mercedes now using Renault engines in their A class, BMW now using Toyota hybrid technology.

And lastly, do you know how prosperous Bentley and Rolls Royce are now ? Their sales are increasing each year, wealthy middle eastern and Chinese buying their cars. RR are now so wealthy, they have stopped asking BMW for money for R&D.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK


Post# 313361 , Reply# 121   1/25/2015 at 20:27 (3,349 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Actually the W12 engine plant are two VR6 engines sandwiched together as far as I understand it. The VR6 was available in the 1980s, so its a bit older than 20 years ago.

How can you suggest that there is a prestige consideration with British made products when in the next sentence you clearly state that British goods are no longer made?

Lastly, forming ties is one thing, other brands have done it well before MB and BMW with Toyota - Volvo (one of my favourite brands) tied contracts already with VW in the 1980s and consulted AUDI when they did their 5 cylinder engine. Volvo also had ties with Renault from the 1970s.


Post# 313363 , Reply# 122   1/25/2015 at 20:35 (3,349 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Anyway, to reiterate - SEBO may well have contracts with Numatic to produce uprights in the Numatic name for other countries - but the company are very conservative. I doubt that SEBO would consider using Numatic's motor because they already have tried and tested motors already.

What SEBO are finding hard to do, is being able to develop what they have in-house already but lowering the watts to meet acceptable performance. They have already found that producing a lower 700 watt motor seems to work well with some of their models, but lowering the watts on the X series for example may be tougher due to the single motor driven upright. Hence why I think you'll find there is no 700 watt Evolution upright...yet.


Post# 313437 , Reply# 123   1/26/2015 at 15:18 (3,348 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Two V6's bolted together, but it goes further than simply that obvisouly. The W12 engine itself is around 20 years old.

When I say we don't make anything, I mean in retrospect of Germany, where you can still buy a German made vacuum, or fridge or kettle, general domestic appliances. In comparison, we don't, but you can still buy British made clothes and cars, if you have the money, and there is a type of upper class attractiveness that comes with this. Wealthy Arabs and Chinese love British made things.

Regarding SEBO, there is a lot that can be experimented and use in their machines. In the future, I reckon they would look into brushless motors, which are becoming cheaper to produce. They are a more common site in fridge's and washing machines these days, they will soon trickle down to vacuum cleaners no doubt in one form or another.


Post# 315500 , Reply# 124   2/14/2015 at 06:40 (3,329 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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They'll need to be pretty durable to stand up to commercial ware first before SEBO consider anything.

Post# 315507 , Reply# 125   2/14/2015 at 07:53 (3,329 days old) by marcusprit ()        

I think digital motors will become the norm in the future but not for 5 possibly 10 years.

Post# 315508 , Reply# 126   2/14/2015 at 08:42 (3,329 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Dysonboy, my carpet in my bedroom is like yours in pic 1, not sure if its the same depth though but my DC25 cleane r head is so light that it floats over the pile with the ball pushed into e pile, which means it has the same performance as a DC01

Post# 315509 , Reply# 127   2/14/2015 at 08:56 (3,329 days old) by Reflector ()        
Dyson's DDMs aren't that special

Marcus, Dyson's "Digital Motors" are just brushless motors or induction motors with an inverter that they build in house to their own spec. The real advantage is that there's a lack of brush friction in them and they can be built potentially more compact. The RC hobbyists and powertool world have been reaping the benefits from the transition, but if you look at the mains powered powertools, short of single phase AC induction motors, the universal motor still has a place. Unless you want to talk about expensive, three phase driven AC induction motors used in industrial machinery, you're going to have to use an inverter and motor controller to drive them above 10k RPM since on a 2 pole motor on 60Hz mains, you're going to hit 7.2k RPM as a ceiling limit and simple VFDs can't make those motors spin faster, they need to be able to take the frequency and bump it up which means you're going to see some significant expensive electronics. Messing up on those expensive electronics means you get to have vacuums that die of stupid reasons as much as typical household appliances...

After all, have you seen Dyson using their DDM in the Cinetics where it makes perfect sense? They wouldn't have to deal with the motor brush particulate going into the HEPA post filter, so the only filtration they'd have to do is for anything smaller than 5 microns that gets past the cyclone pack. That means the HEPA filters stay clean longer and they could boast more, but their profit margin would go down significantly...


Post# 315510 , Reply# 128   2/14/2015 at 09:20 (3,329 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Yes but who knows what advances will happen in future years. If there is a real need for brushless motors in mains vacuum cleaners someone will find a way.

The future may be cordless though mains powered may go out of fashion.




This post was last edited 02/14/2015 at 09:50
Post# 315526 , Reply# 129   2/14/2015 at 16:00 (3,329 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)        
Yes Dysons are overpriced no denying that but you will save

Sebo now recommend changing the filters after 16 dustbags due to the high filtration synthetic material. So if a Sebo X series bag lasts 3 months that's roughly a box of bags every 2 years at a cost of £10 odd. So in 4 years you will have brought a box of bags and a Service box at a total of approx £30...Not £200 lol!!!
Seamus


Post# 315528 , Reply# 130   2/14/2015 at 16:07 (3,329 days old) by marcusprit ()        

The Felix the exhaust filter is £20 plus pre motor filter £9 plus bags over 5 years. How much is that?
Anyway I paid 319 for my Dyson plus 6 free tools and I'm very happy with it :-)


Post# 315530 , Reply# 131   2/14/2015 at 16:13 (3,329 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)        
Allowing for the smaller Felix bags....

Probably about £65- still a total less than the cost of the Dyson....


Post# 315531 , Reply# 132   2/14/2015 at 16:19 (3,329 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Felix pet is £265 ATM so do the maths :-)
And I think Roger recently picked up his DC40 2015 model for £185


Post# 315532 , Reply# 133   2/14/2015 at 16:26 (3,329 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)        
£219.99..

.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO SeamusUK's LINK


Post# 315533 , Reply# 134   2/14/2015 at 16:34 (3,329 days old) by marcusprit ()        

That is the royale its not a popular model and no turbo brush. Anyway no point arguing, you're happy I'm happy so we will leave it at that :-)

Post# 315541 , Reply# 135   2/14/2015 at 18:21 (3,329 days old) by blakaeg (NW London, UK)        

Sebo Felix Navy Eco starts at £239. Pack of 8 bags RRP £8.95. Motor filter £5.95 ideal to replace once a year. Exhaust Filter RRP £17.95. Such a large surface area, only really requires replacing every 5 or 6 years. I wouldn't find the turbo brush useful so that's probably not something many people would need unless they have pets.

Charcoal filter for Felix RRP £19.96.


Post# 315542 , Reply# 136   2/14/2015 at 18:22 (3,329 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The Royale is a very popular model, Marcus. It has been one of SEBO's best sellers out of the Felix range.



Post# 315560 , Reply# 137   2/15/2015 at 01:02 (3,329 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Oh really Nar my mistake.Must be a lot of patriotic people out there. They certainly won't sell a lot in Wales haha, maybe they should have a welsh dragon model.:p I think a lot of people would find a mini turbo brush very handy. It's great for cleaning my car. I think Sebo recommend changing the exhaust filter every 10 to 20 bags. I would err on the lower end around 10 to 15 bags so change filter about every 20 to 30 months. Filter £17.95 plus £4 standard delivery.

Anyway I love my Felix and I'm considering an X4 or G1 but I also love my Dyson :-)




This post was last edited 02/15/2015 at 03:39
Post# 315576 , Reply# 138   2/15/2015 at 11:25 (3,328 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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I already asked for the Scottish flag but SEBO said no : (

However they did let me know that in Germany and America, the British Union jack Royale has been a surprisingly good seller. Much more than worldwide sales of the previous "Rare" orange "Fun" model.

The turbo brush can be picked up at John Lewis. Last time I looked, it cost £29-95 which is £5 cheaper than SEBO UK and before P&P charges. Sadly onlu JL sell the basic microfilter and not the charcoal one.



Post# 315630 , Reply# 139   2/16/2015 at 04:56 (3,327 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Brushless motors ARE catching on-the newest TriStar vacuum has it.Rainbows have these motors.NSS and some Shop Vac industrial wet-dry vacuums have SR brushless motors.Actually these are a Switched Reluctance motor.It is kinda difficult to explain how they work-they have a stator like an induction motor.The rotor is diffrent-its a cogged peice of laminated iron.The design has been around a long time-but took modern circuitry to make the motor work and be economical to use.The motor uses switching pulses to make it work-by magnetizing the rotor sort of like a stepper motor-but more smoothly.And these are capable of both variable speed and torque.I think we will see this motor used more-and some kitchen small appliances are using these motors.They have a wider speed range than an induction motor run from a VFD or inverter drive.

Post# 315635 , Reply# 140   2/16/2015 at 05:24 (3,327 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Interesting Rex. :-)

Post# 316165 , Reply# 141   2/20/2015 at 09:21 (3,323 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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So if Wales and Scotland want their own design on the SEBO felix, should England get the St. Georges cross? It is called a union jack for a reason and it is a very pretty flag, and that vacuum is very popular design for SEBO. Don't know why it wouldn't be popular in Wales or Scotland. It was created to mark the London 2012 Olympics and Diamond jubilee. In Germany, you can get the German flag and eagle design on a black vacuum, and the US flag in the states on a white vacuum as far as I know.

Union jack is an iconic symbol and it sells products all over the world. They like it in Germany, the US and even Japan.

Getting back to brushless motors, they will become the normal as manufacturing costs for them decrease and they prove themselves reliability wise in vacuum cleaners. No reason why they cant. Maybe once vacuum manufactures get serious about producing high performing vacuum in Europe with more stringent guidelines to come in 2017, brushless motors may become more common.


Post# 316166 , Reply# 142   2/20/2015 at 09:24 (3,323 days old) by marcusprit ()        

Only one problem with the Union Jack Oliver. Wales isn't represented on it.

Post# 316167 , Reply# 143   2/20/2015 at 09:28 (3,323 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
I spoke to a Welshman about that a couple of years ago, he was a unionist and he admitted the union flag would look a bit silly with a red dragon right in the middle of it. Also, the union flag was formed hundreds of years before the flag of Wales.

Post# 316168 , Reply# 144   2/20/2015 at 09:32 (3,323 days old) by marcusprit ()        

So you can see why it wouldn't be popular in Wales.

I do hope brush less motors become common in the future it will make cleaners lighter and no carbon dust.



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