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Thread Number: 25949
Okay kids, get the smelling salts and fainting couch handy... |
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Post# 291024 7/30/2014 at 02:08 (3,550 days old) by electrolux137  (Los Angeles) |
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~ One day last week I got a phone call from one of my buddies at a local vac shop. He said, his voice trembling a bit, "We just got something in on trade that you're really gonna want. I hid it in the back -- you better get over here quick before the boss sees it!" Well, I wasn't about to miss something so amazing that it made a vac-shop repairman's voice quiver! I had no sooner hung up the phone than I was at the store. My friend was standing at the repair counter in the back. When he saw me, he motioned for me to come there. He led me back to a far corner of the back room, behind the repair counter, where there's a mountain of trade-ins and parts. He opened a closet door and reached in and grabbed something. When I saw it, I had to sit down, because I nearly fainted. Continued below....... . . [NOTE: PLEASE DON'T SCROLL DOWN AND LOOK AT THE PHOTOS! LET YOURSELF BE FULLY SHOCKED!!!] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . And here's why. I have NEVER seen a 500-series Kirby like this one. Have any of you? I can't imagine it's something that someone rigged up on their own. It's just too professionally done. The model plate identifies it as a 560 and every detail points to that model except the long rug nozzle and the earlier-style belt lifter. But about that belt lifter ... it's not a belt lifter at all! As you'll see in the photos, it's just a cap that attaches to the front and is held in place by a pair of spring-loaded clips. The rug nozzle is somehow attached permanently -- I'm guessing bolted onto the fan housing from the inside. It doesn't come off, and there's no release lever for it on the top. The one big "ARRRRRGGHHHHH" ... the brush roll is missing. And it's a real oddball size. It's two inches longer than a Heritage-II or Legend's standard nozzle. It -might- be the same length as a Classic nozzle, but I don't have any Classics or parts for them, so I can't check that out. Not that it would probably help if I did, given the non-standard fittings for the end-caps. The bumper for the rug nozzle is a little different than the standard one -- it's somewhat taller in height and has a different shape -- instead of what basically is two tubular pieces stuck together like the standard bumper, it's flatter and has two ridged lines running along the bottom. It almost looks like a Classic bumper but it's not that tall. Its height is somewhere between the standard 500-series bumper and the Classic bumper. It runs great; the motor sings sweetly and winds down with no bearing noise or armature vibration whatsoever. I'm just dying that the brush roll went missing! My guess is that it was an early version or a prototype for the American Lincoln, Janitronic & SuperSweep machines -- standard Kirbys in every way but with wide nozzles and painted in garish (dare I say ugly?) colors and with design elements that looked like haphazard afterthoughts. One might wonder why it doesn't have a special Model number or name. On the other hand, the Heritage II & Legend II machines had three different rug nozzles the user could choose -- the "standard" Heritage/Legend nozzle, a smaller 500-series-style nozzle, and a larger Classic-style nozzle. So if this was just an optional commercial-use version of a Kirby without attachments, they might not have felt it was important to give it a special model designation. But I really have no idea. Sometimes I have weird dreams where I'm in dark, creepy basement-type rooms where there are vacuum cleaners in all sorts of strange sizes and/or odd proportions, bizarre attachments, etc. It's almost as if this Kirby materialized from one of those mysterious dreams. I've just never seen another one like it. Ever. Anywhere. Y'all should have seen my chin hit the floor when the guy at the vac shop fetched it out of its hiding place in the back room. See the photos below. There are 20 of them, showing the machine from different angles, a few shots comparing it to a standard 500-series model, and some detail shots. Oh, and, CAN YOU IMAGINE ... I had no sooner loaded the machine into the back seat of my car than the boss (owner of the store) pulled up in the parking lot. If I had gotten there just as couple of minutes later, this machine would have ended up sitting in a corner of his very cluttered and discheveled office. I am just beside myself with elation that my friend called me in time! Now don't get me wrong -- it's not that my pal did something wrong in giving me this Kirby. The owner has no interest whatsoever in old machines and has told the crew there that I can have any old trade-ins that I want, for the same amount as they gave the customer for the trade-in. "It's less crap for me to climb over," he says. But he's probably right -- given its oddball status, the owner very well might have wanted to keep it. Okay, so any of y'all who might have an American Lincoln, Janitronic or SuperSweep, could you take some photos of the bottom of the rug nozzle and the brush roll so I can determine if this machine takes the same size and type of brush roll? And then, if so, Oh Dear Lord, please FIND me one!!" So ......................... what y'all think??! | ||
| Post# 291026 , Reply# 1 7/30/2014 at 02:16 (3,550 days old) by vintagevaclover (Athens, GA) | ||
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| Post# 291027 , Reply# 2 7/30/2014 at 02:25 (3,550 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
 Charles, well done! I'm pretty sure I have a theory on this model!
What if that longer nozzle was a rare and short-lived upgrade, available for those who used their Kirbys in commercial settings. Kirby than realised 'why offer this as an upgrade when we could create a commercially-rated Kirby?'. The option was pulled from production, and thus birthed the SUPER-SWEEP!
Seems possible! | ||
| Post# 291029 , Reply# 3 7/30/2014 at 02:49 (3,550 days old) by bnsd60m9200 (Akron OH) | ||
this is not what is appears.... im not sure where that builders plate came from, but photos 14 and 16 show its true lineage as a 2nd generation super sweep from the residue of emerald green paint left on the fan case and rug nozzle.
that is commercial kirby dolled up into some very elaborate bojacking a vac shop likely did to sell it to a customer or commercial cleanign svc. the wrong belt lifter was the first clue. your closeup photos show more damning evidence... | ||
| Post# 291030 , Reply# 4 7/30/2014 at 02:54 (3,550 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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Post# 291031 , Reply# 5 7/30/2014 at 03:12 (3,550 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles) |
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~ Gee whiz, Will ... "damning" evidence? Isn't that kinda harsh? I didn't present this machine as being anything other than a mystery. Same for my buddy who tipped me off about it. I did see the "green paint residue" but thought maybe it was oxidation or some other sort of discoloration. It doesn't really look like paint to me. But what do I know.......?! Also, you said it was "bojacked" but as far as I can tell, all the parts are genuine Kirby. Doesn't the term "bojack" refer to non-genuine parts like "To-Fit" bags and such? But again, I don't know what to say about it, not ever having had a SuperSweep model to compare it to, except that it's a rare bird regardless of its origins! | ||
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Post# 291032 , Reply# 6 7/30/2014 at 03:44 (3,550 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC) |
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Wonder if the roller brush for the wide 18" Royals could be adapted to fit this.Interesting machine and a one of a kind find.You have found the Kirby that is a true one of a kind?Could this have been made up custom by a Kirby place or a vac shop?That Kirby has got me and others here mystified. | ||
| Post# 291055 , Reply# 7 7/30/2014 at 10:57 (3,550 days old) by kirbymodel2c (Nottingham, England) | ||
Hi, Hi Charlie, Thanks for sharing and taking time to take the pictures. | ||
| Post# 291086 , Reply# 9 7/30/2014 at 14:32 (3,550 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
The most interesting thing to me is, the rug nozzle appears to be sand cast, not die cast. All the Super Sweep and Janitronic machines were die cast nozzles. You can see the markings from the sand mold in the photo of the missing lock lever. Compare this sand marred top to a model 510's sand cast nozzle and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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| Post# 291093 , Reply# 10 7/30/2014 at 14:48 (3,550 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California) | ||
Q L | ||
| Post# 291114 , Reply# 11 7/30/2014 at 17:31 (3,550 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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| Post# 291126 , Reply# 12 7/30/2014 at 19:00 (3,550 days old) by KC_Kirby (Kansas City, MO) | ||
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Here are pics of my American Lincoln Super Sweep nozzle and brushroll. It looks very similar to Charlie's new find. Even though the brushroll attaches to the nozzle rather than the bottom plate, it still is designed just like a Kirby brush roll. The two sides are even different sizes, just like the Kirby. | ||
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Post# 291137 , Reply# 13 7/30/2014 at 20:40 (3,549 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles) |
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~ Well, the consensus (here and in private emails) does seem to be that the nozzle for this mysterious Kirby came from a Super Sweep. KC_Kirby's photos above clearly show that it's the same nozzle as on my "mystery model." Saturday I'm going to take it back to the vac shop (when the coast is clear again!) and see if they have a brushroll that fits. I sure hope so because it would be a lot of fun to use. I have no idea how my strange machine came to be. Whoever made it, whether it was someone at a vac-shop or someone at the Kirby Company, they did a very professional job with it. Nothing about it looks amateurish or bojacked. The clip-side of the unique belt cover in particular looks like it was machined and not just "mickey-moused." It's been fun hearing the detective and guesswork from other collectors. Any way you look at it it's a rare machine and I'll treasure it. Oh and btw my friend didn't just give me the machine - he charged me what the buyer of a new machine got on it as a trade-in, and I'm sure the money went into the store's cash register as it always does. All these guys have worked together a long time, and they wouldn't cheat one another. Also, I don't know who traded it in or what new machine they got and I'd never ask. And they'd never tell me. As that would violate their customers' confidentiality. I don't suppose anyone out there has a spare Super Sweep brush roll, do they....... :) | ||
| Post# 291141 , Reply# 14 7/30/2014 at 20:55 (3,549 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas) | ||
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Post# 291257 , Reply# 15 7/31/2014 at 12:28 (3,549 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles) |
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~ I received the following info in an email this morning: ------- The 18" brush roll for Royal metal uprights (look like Kirby) has square ends and there is a chance that it could fit the 18" Kirby nozzle. The belt will keep the brush roll in place within the side guides of the nozzle. If the square ends are adjusted by filing or use of heavy duty rubber tape, the Royal 18" brush roll could work. In your photos, the belt cover is a genuine Kirby product. Kirby has a special riveting machine that attached the metal clips. Recall, Kirby had clips on the belt covers of early Kirby vacuum cleaners of the "C" series. All of the Supersweep and Janitronic uprights are painted and the castings are very rough. If someone removed the paint and polished a Supersweep nozzle and fan case it would take a lot of time and effort. Kirby has very unique polishing jigs for six (6) steps of finishing, buffing, and polishing at the factory. There is some automation in the polishing process, but it is still time consuming. There have been many odd machines like Electrolux G's and Compact machines that have been chrome plated for show purposes, also. | ||
| Post# 291312 , Reply# 16 7/31/2014 at 18:13 (3,549 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California) | ||
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imo... | ||
| Post# 291354 , Reply# 17 7/31/2014 at 20:36 (3,548 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere) | ||
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What about painted Kirbys like this one? Was it custom made for a customer?
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| Post# 291362 , Reply# 18 7/31/2014 at 21:13 (3,548 days old) by Kirbykid (Horseheads,New York 14845) | ||
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I made this one 
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| Post# 291363 , Reply# 19 7/31/2014 at 21:15 (3,548 days old) by Kirbykid (Horseheads,New York 14845) | ||
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And this 
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| Post# 291364 , Reply# 20 7/31/2014 at 21:17 (3,548 days old) by sonnyndad () | ||
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With all due respect, Kirbykid I would take the machine on the left any day of the week. | ||
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Post# 291396 , Reply# 23 8/1/2014 at 00:57 (3,548 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles) |
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~ No, I would not feel better about it by letting the owner know of the trade. Because he has no interest in old vacuums and has said so many times. He might not even care about this one, but it seemed justifiable not to take a chance on it. Because if he did take a fancy to it, he would just dump it into the corner of his very cluttered and messy office. Not because he cared about it as a vintage machine and much less because he would see it as "collectible," but just as a sort of curiosity or conversation piece. No one was practicing to deceive or weaving tangled webs. I was just kidding when I said I'd go back when the coast was clear. I could walk right into the store with it at any time. I've already said that I would never ask my friend to ply a customer with questions. Most people would not appreciate it. And there's no possible way the machine could have attachments since there's no way to connect them. | ||
| Post# 291400 , Reply# 24 8/1/2014 at 01:10 (3,548 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.) | ||
Kirbykid, | ||
| Post# 291407 , Reply# 25 8/1/2014 at 03:24 (3,548 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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'i must say', | ||
| Post# 291424 , Reply# 26 8/1/2014 at 09:35 (3,548 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Looking at the photos, I think there's only one logical explanation- this must have been an experimental model, & Kirby was using this to test the market for commercial vacuums. Now, what I have to wonder is why they chose to paint the Super Sweeper & American Lincoln models, & why not use the Kirby name when it already had a good established reputation for quality??
Rob | ||
| Post# 291431 , Reply# 27 8/1/2014 at 10:39 (3,548 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California) | ||
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kk | ||
| Post# 291469 , Reply# 29 8/1/2014 at 14:19 (3,548 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas) | ||
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Adhesive?
A other things to note: 1) It appears that the fan case is from a D50/80; 2) There is no safety switch in place (but I guess there would be no need for one); 3) What appears to be paint and/or oxidation may, in fact, be some kind of sealant or adhesive.
All that, coupled with the fact that the belt lifter/cover seems to be professionally riveted (no vacuum shop would do that), leads me to believe that this is a unit that Kirby was experimenting with before creating a production model. | ||
| Post# 291543 , Reply# 30 8/2/2014 at 00:37 (3,547 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.) | ||
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Alex
Well, everyone knows that England was a southern ally. You couldn't have asked for a better fair-weather friend. They were kinda like...when you need a loan from a bank, and Oh yeah,they will finally lend it to you...only when you don't need it NO MORE! "I must say" some "Stars and Bars" would really look good on that Kirby.
Cheerio! | ||
| Post# 291548 , Reply# 31 8/2/2014 at 01:35 (3,547 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.) | ||
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Just one more thing, Alex.
For at lest a week or so, my language will be a semantic study in logic. I just found this LP, and I have the upmost confidence that my friends at the local astronomy club....are going to seriously, I mean seriously GEEK OUT! Forget the smelling salts, IT'S TIME TO GRAB THE MACE!
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Post# 291634 , Reply# 32 8/2/2014 at 16:10 (3,547 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles) |
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~ Well, this thread certainly has wandered all over the place. To bring it back on-topic: I went over to the vac shop today to see about getting a brush roll for my mystery Kirby, which I have dubbed the "Super Janitronic 560." The 18-inch Royal brush roll doesn't work. The end caps are hexagonal shaped and way too large to attempt to whittle down narrowly enough to fit into the rug nozzle. The Kirby Classic brush roll is only 16 inches long. I thought about getting one anyway and seeing if I could insert inch-long wooden pieces in each end of the rug nozzle to take up the extra space, but that would be "iffy" and most likely wouldn't work. Without the end caps being secured inside the slots, the brush roll would probably wobble and vibrate all over the place and ruin the brush-roll bearings and maybe even the front motor bearing. I poked around their multiple "back rooms-o-junk" and didn't find anything that even came close to fitting. (I did, however, find a couple of other treasures that I'll post about after I clean them up and make them presentable -- a Hoover turquoise Convertible and a Eureka "Vibra-Groomer" upright that's really beautiful, with a brushed-aluminum motor cover.) So I'm pretty much stuck right now, unless someone can come up with a Super Sweep nozzle for me. This post was last edited 08/02/2014 at 16:36 | ||
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Post# 296763 , Reply# 33 9/2/2014 at 22:20 (3,515 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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Post# 296787 , Reply# 34 9/3/2014 at 02:20 (3,515 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles) |
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| Post# 296803 , Reply# 35 9/3/2014 at 07:33 (3,515 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
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Charles, I have an idea for getting a brushroll to work in your Kirby. Why not go ahead & buy both a Kirby brushroll with ball bearings & removable end caps, & a commercial Royal brushroll, & transplant the Kirby bearings & endcaps to your Royal brushroll? They look similar enough that it should work fine.
Rob | ||
| Post# 296813 , Reply# 36 9/3/2014 at 09:45 (3,515 days old) by DesertTortoise () | ||
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That is a very smart idea kirbylux. | ||
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Post# 296818 , Reply# 38 9/3/2014 at 09:58 (3,515 days old) by electrolux137 (Los Angeles) |
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| Post# 296820 , Reply# 39 9/3/2014 at 10:04 (3,515 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa) | ||
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| Post# 352053 , Reply# 40 5/11/2016 at 22:50 (2,898 days old) by speedqueen (Harrison Twp MI) | ||
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2 Years Later... I stumbled upon this thread while searching for the keeler self propelled mechanism and am wondering if any new information has come up on the "Super Janitronic 560"? Also, did you ever get a brush roller? | ||
| Post# 352060 , Reply# 41 5/12/2016 at 08:26 (2,898 days old) by 3rdGenVacGuy (Columbus, Ohio ) | ||
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wide brush roll I saw this resurrected thread and went and looked at some odd brushes that I have. They are wider than the 1CR - 3CB brush rolls. They measure just over 16.75". The wood is not stamped Kirby, but they also do not have the CWP stamping either. | ||
| Post# 352100 , Reply# 42 5/13/2016 at 08:18 (2,897 days old) by william (Philadelphia) | ||
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2 Years and 2 days later... Charles, I have to say you are a terrific story teller! I have never read a more gripping story than yours...ever! It had me sweating with anticipation every step of the way on the edge of my seat! Way to go! You should write novels. Excellent! Bill | ||
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Post# 355790 , Reply# 43 7/10/2016 at 09:05 (2,839 days old) by KirbyCollector (Columbus Ohio USA) |
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| Post# 454990 , Reply# 44 7/19/2022 at 02:25 (639 days old) by huskyvacs (Gnaw Bone, Indiana) | ||
Kirbys like this are what I like to call "clones". Just like rare cars get fake clones made of them - as do Kirbys, due to the universal fitment of their parts and pieces in wide arrays of colors. Cloned Kirbys will usually have every single part replaced on it to match the model they want it to look like, even down to the power cord and headlight bulbs. That's what differentiates them from just bojack parts specials. Clones are deliberately made to look exactly like the newer model from a old model. Even if they had to be physically painted over to accomplish that - like in the case of Charlie's vac.
These clones I believe would be what vac shops - official Kirby dealers or otherwise - would do to sell their old models that are lingering around unsold as brand new models and get them out of the shop to some unbeknownst buyer who doesn't know any better. All is well and good if they never claim anything on warranty to Kirby themselves I suppose and the serial number issue would be discovered. Clones aren't really bad and work just fine, but for collectors going after specific models and having complete lines, you just know that what they are dressed up as isn't what they are and it kills the joy of finally finding your missing model just to find out it's a fake. I myself have been duped by old clone jobs. A 1CR thats been transformed into a Classic III and a Sentria 1 that was transformed into a Sentria 2 (and the transmission is shot to boot!). Both of these I got from Goodwill and of course they don't research what they sell and have no obligation to. I had no idea about cloned models being a thing until I got one, and then I got hit again with a double whammy and got another one. I make sure I look close now before buying any Kirby from now on and look at everything and make sure it's not a clone before bidding. | ||
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