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Thread Number: 25692
Arm & Hammer Carpet Odor Eliminator -- Thoughts? |
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| Post# 288479 7/13/2014 at 01:15 (3,569 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
I originally posted this on thread #25338, but I don't think anybody saw this, so I'll repost some of what I posted 2 weeks ago:
OK, so I was at my mom's apartment today, waiting for furniture delivery. We used this Arm & Hammer Carpet Odor Eliminator on her bedroom carpet to try and get her Dyson DC07 to smell better. It worked well, however I noticed some problems: 1. I heard a change in the noise of the vacuum. More specifically, the cyclone assembly was making less of a "howling" noise the more I vacuumed. 2. Some of the powder made its way to the pre-motor filter. 3. The HEPA filter lid (where the canister sits) was getting unusually hot. However, the machine still had strong suction. So, what are your thoughts on this product, or any powdered carpet freshener for this matter? Here is a pic of the stuff we used. The second pic shows the pre-motor filter after 1 use of this product. After vacuuming, I dragged my finger over the filter and got a small coating of powder on my finger; that is how much of the powder got to the filter. | ||
| Post# 288489 , Reply# 2 7/13/2014 at 04:56 (3,569 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Here is the link for all: www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...
You can't really use freshener powder with any vacuum cleaner, really. It clogs bags, it clogs motors if they are not sealed and they do a lot of damage to bagless and Dyson filters etc, cue your example. The best kind of fresheners if you must use them are the capsule, gel, non-powdery type, or scented powder sachets provided the powder is kept intact in the envelope. | ||
| Post# 288494 , Reply# 3 7/13/2014 at 08:34 (3,568 days old) by Dustin (Jackson, MI) | ||
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| Post# 288510 , Reply# 4 7/13/2014 at 13:31 (3,568 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Thanks!
Although I noticed a change in the tone of the noise from the cyclones, and the filter got dirty too, the machine still had strong suction, thanks to the Root Cyclone technology. I can now see why Dyson says that fine dust should only be picked up sparingly.
Here is an excerpt from the manual from here: www.dyson.com/medialibrary/Files/... "This machine is intended for domestic use only. Fine dust such as plaster dust or flour should only be vacuumed in small amounts." This makes me worry that carpet freshening powder could potentially destroy a Dyson. I may have to wash the filter after going through all that powder. As for a different kind of freshener, if you have a Bissell vacuum, Bissell has teamed up with Febreze to make cleaning products that help eliminate odors. Some of their products include vacuum bags and filters. I downloaded the manual for the Bissell Powerforce Bagged, and the Febreze bags have a small scent tag located near the bottom. A tab must be pulled off in order to experience the "freshness" of Febreze. CLICK HERE TO GO TO niclonnic's LINK | ||
| Post# 288514 , Reply# 5 7/13/2014 at 14:04 (3,568 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 288561 , Reply# 6 7/13/2014 at 20:57 (3,568 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Miele warn against using any scents in their vacuums when filters such as the AAC or HEPA are fitted. It makes sense. When scented things hit charcoal, the charcoal absorbing effect gets wasted and worn down by the scents. So, even IF a powdery type can mean motors get clogged up OR any part of the vacuum where airflow is concerned and the slightest gap, fresheners can't always be used in a vacuum cleaner, even if there's a tight sealed suction unit but usage of charcoal filters.
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| Post# 288583 , Reply# 7 7/13/2014 at 23:42 (3,568 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Yeah
I would NEVER use any kind of carpet freshening powder in my Hoover Windtunnel 2 Rewind Pet. It features a HEPA filter with a layer of charcoal to absorb pet odors. I agree with you, Sebo_fan, on this matter.
Here are some pics of said filter. | ||
| Post# 288610 , Reply# 8 7/14/2014 at 07:39 (3,567 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 288730 , Reply# 9 7/14/2014 at 22:01 (3,567 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
root cyclone technology, | ||
| Post# 288777 , Reply# 10 7/15/2014 at 01:09 (3,567 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Actually...
Fantom and Dyson use two entirely different technologies: dual-cyclonic and multi-cyclonic.
Fantom used dual-cyclonic technology under license from Dyson. The Fantoms had a big outer cyclone to catch the larger debris, plus a smaller inner cyclone to separate the fine dust. With those two cyclones working together, plus a screen to deflect the debris, the suction power is a lot more consistent. When Dyson came to America in late 2002, they introduced the "Root Cyclone" multi-cyclonic technology. Same principle as dual-cyclonic, but it replaces the single large inner cyclone with several smaller cyclones, making it even more efficient, so that less fine dust gets to the filter. I vacuumed with my Dyson DC07 Animal countless times when I had it, and the filter looked like new. That's how efficient the multi-cyclonic filtration is. However, if you're vacuuming up a lot of fine dust, such as carpet freshening powder, the filter WILL get dirty. My Hoover Windtunnel 2 Rewind Pet is dual-cyclonic, similar to the Fantoms. While it's a decent budget vacuum (actually free from the Amazon Vine program) and kicks butt on carpets, I was surprised at how quickly the pre-filter got clogged with hair and fluff after a few uses. And yes, it does have a good pre-filter that looks like a Dyson filter. Hoover suggests washing that filter every 2 months, which I follow, but I think once a month would be more accurate. Plus, it's messy to empty the dirt cup. Dust flies everywhere. But even with a dirty filter, the vacuum still has strong suction. However, I'll keep using this vacuum until the belt wears out or breaks. I'll try to get $140 out of it (or the cost of none). Still, it's not bad for a cheap-ish vacuum. | ||
| Post# 288869 , Reply# 11 7/15/2014 at 14:29 (3,566 days old) by FantomFan (Rochester, New York) | ||
You have to remember though that a belt is regular wear
A belt is only $3-4. Most people think that the vacuum is broken, or done for when the brush stops turning. In reality, 9/10 it is the belt, and it is normal for it to stretch and/or break over 6 months to a year (usually). Almost every vacuum I buy or recieve needs a belt before I could use them. This vacuum isn't very old, so I would expect it to run for a couple more years with proper care (belts, servicing). If more people realized this, I bet we would see less vacuum cleaners in the trash, not to mention when people learn that their machine is clogged.
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| Post# 288897 , Reply# 12 7/15/2014 at 17:09 (3,566 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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I know that
My Windtunnel still has the original belt from last year, and so far it's held up really well. But, because of the broken hinge on the dirt cup (which falls off every time I go to empty it), I want to make it my last Hoover once the belt wears down. I've went over that issue in thread #24995: www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...
Here's what I think of the Hoover Windtunnel 2 Rewind Pet UH70831PC: Pros: - Excellent at cleaning carpets - Excellent filtration - Retractable cord - Handy turbo brush, which features rubber blades instead of bristles Cons: - Short cord - Short hose - One short extension wand - Small dirt cup - Debris gets stuck in the dirt cup - Pre-motor filter gets dirty fast - Can't turn off brush roll for bare floors - Cheap plastic parts break easily - Not easy to use on stairs This is my second bad experience with Hoover, so I want to stay away from them. I can't find a replacement dirt cup on Hoover.com, because they're out of stock. I don't know how that dirt cup design ever got past the QA testers, but Hoover has responded to a negative review on their website, stating that "Your dirt cup should never crack or break." Lies!
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| Post# 288954 , Reply# 13 7/15/2014 at 19:42 (3,566 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 289014 , Reply# 14 7/16/2014 at 04:03 (3,566 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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You're forgetting that, | ||
| Post# 289092 , Reply# 15 7/16/2014 at 16:18 (3,565 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Sebo_fan, yes, lots of uprights have this feature, starting in the US$150 range. Some vacuums in that range, such as Shark vacuums, use geared belts. More expensive vacuums, such as Dyson, also use those kinds of belts. Older Dysons utilize a clutch system that uses rubber belts.
Super_sweeper, the dual cyclonic Dysons (DC01--DC06) were sold only in the UK. They were not sold in the US until Fantom went out of business in October 2001. The following year was when Dyson came to America--and introduced Root Cyclone technology. In fact, Fantom never made any references to Dyson when they were still in business. | ||
| Post# 289134 , Reply# 16 7/17/2014 at 00:38 (3,565 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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Niclonnic, That doesn't matter. They're both dual-Cyclonic vacuums from the same time period. They licenced the dual-cyclones from Dyson. When Fantom said no to Mr.Dyson's new filter stuff, he cancelled the license and Fantom went bankrupt. Guess who stepped in to fill Fantom's place? If you guessed Tom Cruise you're unbelievably wrong. | ||
| Post# 289206 , Reply# 17 7/17/2014 at 13:36 (3,564 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Yes | ||
| Post# 289214 , Reply# 18 7/17/2014 at 14:31 (3,564 days old) by FantomFan (Rochester, New York) | ||
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The fury and cyclone xt were designed completely by fantom | ||
| Post# 289219 , Reply# 20 7/17/2014 at 15:04 (3,564 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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you're right! | ||
| Post# 289279 , Reply# 21 7/17/2014 at 21:08 (3,564 days old) by FantomFan (Rochester, New York) | ||
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Well actually the Vectron was designed by Dyson himself!
If you look at the patent for the design of the Vectron (later becoming the fantom in 1992), you'll notice James Dyson is listed as the inventor. He designed it as a commercial machine for Johnson Wax in the late 80's (that is why the fantom/thunder/destiny/destiny pluses are built like tanks!) When Johnson wanted out on commercial vacuums, Iona was granted permission to continue to build the machines, but under "fantom", their own machine to sell. I am lucky to own an original fantom from the original owner in very good condition, that was bought directly through the infomercial's 1-800 number, on October 12th, 1994
(What a coincedence it was grandma's 61st b-day) for $348.67, probably about $500 in 2014 dollars. I have the reciept from when he bought it! | ||
| Post# 289284 , Reply# 22 7/17/2014 at 21:30 (3,564 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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lucky you! | ||
| Post# 289310 , Reply# 23 7/17/2014 at 22:25 (3,564 days old) by FantomFan (Rochester, New York) | ||
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Dyson completely designed it
It seems unbelievable, but in his book "Against the Odds" , he talks about designing the machine. He said himself that it's later sibling, the thunder, had "horribly clumsy styling". He did NOT add the final pleated HEPA filter though. I believe that was an afterthought after fantom realized the dual cyclones could not filter fine dust very well, and they could sell filters for $80 a piece. It looks so out of place on the machine.
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| Post# 289333 , Reply# 24 7/18/2014 at 00:50 (3,564 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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who said, | ||
Post# 289343 , Reply# 25 7/18/2014 at 02:41 (3,564 days old) by tolivac  (Greenville,NC) |
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During a basement remodel years ago at a freinds house-his basement-used the Kirby sander on an adaptor with an NSS M1 Pig vac-no problems at all with the drywall dust-cleaned the unit out and it was fine!Used the shroud on the sander and the Pigs suction ran the unit well and collected the plaster dust. | ||
| Post# 289416 , Reply# 26 7/18/2014 at 17:43 (3,563 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Multi-Cyclonic vacuums clogging
Well as far as I'm concerned, reading in the manual to pick up fine dust sparingly is basically an admission on Dyson's part that they know their cyclones eventually clog. They wouldn't be saying this otherwise....they are trying to prevent the cyclones from clogging & a expensive repair bill, resulting in angry consumers.
Also, I find it odd that Dyson say not to wash the cyclone assembly....they must be afraid a consumer wouldn't do a thorough job & let the cyclone assembly dry thoroughly & that there might be some "mud" in the inner workings of the cyclones as a result. With both my Bissell Healthy Home & Hoover Air Pro multi-cyclonic uprights, I have washed the cyclone assembly, let thoroughly dry & have never had any issues. With the Bissell, I will on occasion separate the cyclone assembly from the bin, take it outside & tap the tube that is the inner cyclone on the ground....usually a lot of dust will fall out that way. And periodically I have also used a canister vacuum, like an Electrolux or TriStar, & use the hose in blower mode with a crevice tool on the end to concentrate airflow & blow out the cyclone assembly outside. If you don't have a vacuum with a blower, an air compressor would work as well. Doing this 2 or 3 times a year, plus washing the cyclones once a year, I find is good preventative maintenance. As to the HEPA filters clogging & carbon filters losing effectiveness, I have blown out my HEPA filters to extend their life & it works wonders....amazing how much dust comes flying out of the filters! And the carbon filters....who cares if they wear out?! You can buy sheets of carbon filter material & cut a new one, & it's dirt cheap, not expensive at all. The only vacuums this wouldn't work on would be the Miele vacuums, since their carbon filters are made of carbon pellets sandwiched in between fabric & permanently attached to the HEPA filter. Niclonnic- If I was you, don't be so quick to throw that Hoover out once the belt is broken. You do say it's a good vacuum & cleans well, so why throw it out? Since it is a model from a popular brand & mass produced & millions sold, if you check around your local repair shops frequently it will only be a matter of time before you can find donor parts for cheap from a dead vacuum. Also, I would try modifying the "lip" around the cyclone shroud by trimming it with a Dremel, see if that helps to prevent the fluffy dirt from getting stuck up there. The cyclone looks very similar to the design the Hoover Fusion used, & the "lip" on the cyclone wasn't as big as on the Fusion. So I would think the "lip" on the cyclone assembly on yours could be modified without harming anything. I linked a Vacuumland thread below that has a picture of a Hoover Fusion so you can see what I am talking about. Rob CLICK HERE TO GO TO kirbylux77's LINK | ||
| Post# 289421 , Reply# 27 7/18/2014 at 19:20 (3,563 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Interesting facts, Rob...
Another fact about picking up fine dust sparingly is to prevent the filter from clogging, which at that point will need to be washed more frequently (Dyson recommends washing every 6 months).
As for cleaning the cyclone assembly, I could use my Ridgid shop vacuum in blower mode with the crevice tool at the end, then blow out the cyclone assembly outside. I don't have an air compressor. But unfortunately, I don't have my Dyson DC07 anymore. My mom got it following my parents' divorce last month. However, she lives in a small apartment with no pets, so that "Animal" vacuum is too much vacuum for her. I'm thinking that a much cheaper vacuum would be better for her, so I'm researching. As for carbon filters, Hoover sells carbon filters through their website. They claim that the carbon filter "may need to be replaced more often to maintain optimal odor absorbing effectiveness." Replacement carbon filters can be found here: hoover.com/parts/details/90240400... However, they're out of stock as of the time of this writing. My Hoover Windtunnel is a great vacuum on carpets, but overall it just falls flat when it comes to hard floors, because you can't turn the brush roll off. Also, the hose is WAY too short, plus it comes with one short (12-inch) extension wand. So it's not easy to use on stairs. Replacement dirt cups are still out of stock. Shame on you, Hoover! At least offer replacement dirt cups when you screw up on a design like this. Unfortunately I'm not willing to modify my dirt cup using a Dremel. The "lip" fits into a rubber gasket when the bottom door is closed. I'm afraid that modifying it would cause performance issues. Due to the broken hinge, the bottom door falls into the trash can every time I go to empty it. When that happens, I have to fiddle with reattaching the door to the bottom of the dirt cup, so I just twist the top part off and empty it that way. At the end of the day, if you have mostly wall-to-wall carpeting and pets, this Hoover is a great choice for a lower budget. Just be aware of its limitations. It's not great if you have lots of hard floors and/or carpeted stairs. Here is a link to a replacement dirt cup on Hoover.com. CLICK HERE TO GO TO niclonnic's LINK | ||
| Post# 289434 , Reply# 28 7/18/2014 at 21:31 (3,563 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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can't you just, Unleash your inner redneck and duck-tape the flap on? You should be able to empty the canister from the top?
Fine dust (ESPECIALLY carpet fresh!) Is about the only thing that can stop a Fantom. Kryptonite is to superman as carpet-fresh is to Fantom! Not to mention what it could do to the HEPA filter!
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| Post# 289437 , Reply# 29 7/18/2014 at 22:23 (3,563 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA) | ||
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Haha
I am no redneck! I hail from the Pacific Northwest. Yes, the bottom flap stays on when I set part of it into the non-broken side of the hinge, then push it into the broken side. Afterward, I just rotate the flap and press it closed. However, I can just empty the canister from the top. I've explained it a few times.
Looks like the carpet powder hasn't stopped my old Dyson! It just made a slightly different noise, and the filter got dirty. Here are some pics of the dirt cup. Sorry about the quality, they looked great on my phone, but are not turning out well on the computer. | ||
| Post# 289450 , Reply# 30 7/19/2014 at 02:05 (3,563 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.) | ||
This will heal the squeal...
and leave everything smelling mulberry fresh!
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| Post# 289489 , Reply# 31 7/19/2014 at 18:48 (3,562 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
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Calem, I use that stuff! It works wonders when you sprinkle it in a Kirby's Sani-Scrapper pocket!
Let's see how much longer that Dyson of yours lasts, then! If carpet fresh can bring-down the Mighty Fantom and it's Amtek motor, I'm sure it can't do WONDERS on your Dyson's (Insert off-brand Malaysian motor name here)! | ||
| Post# 289511 , Reply# 32 7/19/2014 at 21:54 (3,562 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.) | ||
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Alex,
You too! Those little popcorn flavor fluffs are just about a curative for the common cold. Why, they can even remedy the most aggravating of odors...just put two loving spoonful's in your bag and a way we go. Truly, the best stuff I've ever used, and I must confess, it has no substitute. Now, I must also confess about a terrible experience, which happened now long ago and far away, and it is this: When that carpet powder hits those open bearings in them plastic vacs, and furthermore, you begin to hear a tooth chattering roar that you never heard before, and if this is the case, then go on ahead and make your peace with it, for it's not long for this poor, pitiless world. Just go on ahead and find a spot for it by the curb.
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| Post# 289543 , Reply# 33 7/20/2014 at 06:29 (3,561 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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I don't know if you can buy these in the U.S but SEBO in the UK make these handy capsules. One in a bag is all you need, but you can also place it any where inside the X/ Windsor bag area so that you can use it for the next bag. They can be used in virtually any bagged vacuum, though some brands like Miele warn using any capsule or powder that can damage the charcoal fitted filters.
See pic 1 for the SEBO capsules. Pic 2 shows an American company called "Greenleaf" who have scented sachets that contain sand like scented powder. I never use the sand powder neat, but rather just keep it in the bag. As you will see from the photo, I keep one of the sachets tucked into the back pocket of my Vax VCU-02 upright, or as you may know in the U.S the model is from TTI like an Oreck XL, the Hoover Signature and other variations of that vacuum, of which Kirbyloverdan has shown on his threads of his collection. Those Greenleaf sachets do last a long time in my experience and they have some lovely scents - I adore anything with cinnamon at times and this company make Cinnamon scented powder sachets as well as one called "Hope" which is like red berries and cinnamon. The one that I have now is called "Classic Linen," and its a lovely natural scent that has a mix of male aftershave about it! It normally sits inside the back pocket of the Vax. Sometimes I even put the bag at the front of the paper dust bag inside the soft bag of this upright vac when the powder starts to weaken, months later (pic 3). These are safer ways, in my opinion against using neat powder that can jam up motors as well as get into tricky cavity areas of uprights including hose mount joints, seals and any where in fact where the airflow is concerned, other than the dust bag. | ||
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