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Thread Number: 25324
Will the current vacuum industry ever change to something like it used to be? |
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| Post# 284620 6/14/2014 at 17:12 (3,602 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
Looking at citroenbx's link about vintage vacuum catalogues, from the 70's to the 00's, it brought back how vacuums, and pretty much any other white good domestic appliances used to be. In so many way, it really brings home how vastly things have changed, so quickly. One thing I noticed was that, it seemed catalogue companies actually knew a little bit about the vacuums they were selling. I was seeing "clean fan motor" advertised on the dyson dc01, the infamous "British made" logos and who can forget the "beats as it sweeps as it cleans."
Now I am only 31 and half English, half german, growing up in Germany until I was 17 but I do remember looking through these catalogues during the 80's and 90's. These cleaners just look so much better quality to what they are now. It is amazing to see again "400, 500, 600 watt motors" and bagged cleaners a plenty. What I am trying to get at is the current trend of cheaply built, nasty made vacuum. Looking at a few pages in these catalogues and seeing cleaners for 20 and 30 quid (would be more these days because of inflation) but cheap basic vaccums and even these looked well built and well thought out, probably all made in the west or Japan. Nearly all these vacuums these days are made in china, with locally sourced, cheap parts, nasty nosier motors and cheap plastic bagless containers with poor manufacturing and quality control, at one point it seemed that things would never go back to the good old days. It's funny, we never thought anything at the time of getting out the dyson and It saying "made in Derby, UK, or the Electrolux Swedish made", but how we crave it now. But recently, I am starting to see a couple of cleaners here and there with manufacturing being brought back to western countries. Now this post could go on forever explaining why, but I am awear that western and Japanese companies who were investing in china are now starting to pull out for a couple of strong reasons, chief among which being that manufacturing costs in china are now getting expensive. As human rights and environmentalist activists get nosier and more powerful, pushing up labour costs and green taxes being introduced out there "sort of) it is now no where near as cheap to build your white goods there. Indeed sony will be build the ps4 in brazil rather than china next year (but that may be to do with japanes/Chinese relations being very rocky at the moment). You also have the copy cat culture out there who have stolen western designs of not just cars and clothes, but vacuums and appliances. There was a copy of a dyson being sold on alibaba not so long ago. Also, I would imagine its now very expensive to ship these products form china to Europe and Americas, not to mention time consuming. I also guess people are getting fed up of cheap nasty quality vacuums. Even vacuums costing £200/300 are made in china and most of them, not all however, are cheaply made and throw away items. More people are buying sebos and mieles as they are German/European built machines. But even some Electrolux and AEG moels are being built in the EU now. There is the revised AEG rechargeable stick vac mentioned on here not long ago, saying it was "made in the EU". I would imagine that its probably Poland or Slovakia, eastern Europe, but I guess wages there are probably as cheap as china without the worries of stealing designs, dangerous materials being used or shipping costs or waiting times. Before the made in china craze was a thing, a few products were being made in eastern Europe and they were still decent quality, with a lot of the parts still being made in the native countries of the people who made the item. Finally, I guess the other reason which has a big part to play is the advancement of automated manufacturing. I was watching a documentary about bosch not so long ago making car parts including O2 sensors, air meters, ABS and even ECU units which were being made in asia up until not so long ago when they moved back to Germany, the UK and Austria. The guy at bosch said essentially (not directly) they had concerns over spies working for Chinese state owned electronic companies taking technology, quality problems and also supplier problems, as bsoch would tell a Chinese factory how to make a certain product, and the end product ended up being completely inferior and wrong to the point they couldn't use it. A laser cutting company in Britain had the same problem, costing both bosch and this clothing company hundreds of thousands of pounds. But bosch said that because of automated manufacturing, the fact that once you have bought a robot, you don't pay it a wage, it pays for itself over time, insures consistent quality throughout several thousand batches of parts, and also puts working back into Europe, he said they probably couldn't make the product cheaper. It was profitable, but ended up making a quality product. So, does this exciting, roe recent trend hold any merits? Do you think we could finally start seeing "made in EC, UK and USA" back on our vacuums ? | ||
| Post# 284624 , Reply# 2 6/14/2014 at 17:29 (3,602 days old) by parwaz786 ( ) | ||
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The only proper branded bagged vacuums left are Miele, Numatic and Hoover purepower's! | ||
| Post# 284637 , Reply# 3 6/14/2014 at 17:58 (3,602 days old) by suctionselector (Leeds, England) | ||
Even until recently... ... in 2004 you could buy a Panasonic MCE-468, albeit a 1600 watt cleaner, but for £69.95, it's a good cleaner and the same design has been knocking on 20 years now.
It just shows you don't have to pay loads for a decent cleaner. When the Panasonic was for sale in 2004 a Dyson DC14 cost £300, £230 more! And I know which I'd rather have! (Panasonic) | ||
| Post# 284639 , Reply# 4 6/14/2014 at 18:01 (3,602 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA) | ||
Well, I live in the US but can still relate. I too would like to see more manufacturing in the home country (US). The vacuum market here is also quite boring. It seems bagless uprights are all anyone cares about anymore. If anyone has a vacuum it seems to be a bagless upright for the house and a shop vac for anything else.
I'd like to see more canister vacuums, which many stores here do not sell at all, the closest thing to canister is Shark Lift Away. I'd also like to see more bagged vacuums, most stores here sell only one of a few models, the Bissell Powerforce, and Hoover Tempo, if they have any. My favorite big box store for vacuum selection, and the last one that seems to push bagged machines as well as canisters, Sears, is not doing well, and it's unfortunate. It's crazy thinking back to how cool I thought the first bagless cyclonic uprights we had here (Fantom) were, and never expecting that one day that's about all there would be on the market! | ||
| Post# 284642 , Reply# 5 6/14/2014 at 18:36 (3,602 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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Thing is though, in 2004 you were able to buy Dysons at that price because there was a lot more money around then. But saying that, even in 2004 you were still able to buy cheapie bagged vacs which were always my preference. | ||
Post# 284643 , Reply# 6 6/14/2014 at 18:37 (3,602 days old) by bagintheback  (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
| Post# 284646 , Reply# 7 6/14/2014 at 19:04 (3,602 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
As I sit here in my armchair, directly next to me is my 1986 Hoover Junior U1104 which has a sticker on the handle proudly proclaiming "This one's made in Britain". Will we ever see that again from Hoover? No.
It is my belief that any vacuum cleaner manufacturers who have moved production to China won't move again, unless it is to somewhere with even cheaper labour. The only hope we have now (in my opinion) is that the manufacturers who still produce vacuums in the UK and USA et al will continue to do so. Thus, my answer to your question is no, the vacuum cleaner industry will never be remotely like what it once was. It will change, you can be certain of that, but not for the better. On that happy note... | ||
| Post# 284650 , Reply# 8 6/14/2014 at 19:24 (3,602 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Oh you are trying to tempt me again with a Junior U1104. I adore those.
To be honest Oli, and knowing some of those catalogues, you still got cheap vacuums that were made in places like Poland and where, if it wasn't a major brand, the bags were devilishly hard to find. Even finding bags for some premium brands "back in the day" like AEG were difficult to find! A bit like Argos' exclusive branded bagged vacuums, these days..or Tesco or ASDA variants whenever they bring out bagged cylinders. Well before there were supermarket alternatives, Comet, Dixons and Currys had their own exclusive brands with cheap Chinese built imports and again, with dust bags hard to find. One day, we may return to a manufacturing base in the UK, but it may take longer than expected. Unlike a lot of opinions that have been passed here and in years past, I am not against Chinese built vacuums. I've had a few that have lasted a long time - cue Morphy Richards/Goblin Ace and their variants including the Hoover Studio vacs - ALL of them have long 1.8 metre hoses and are slightly heavier than the cheapie ones now in 2014. They are also a bit more durable even if sometimes you get smaller naff cleaning tools. The beauty of those ones are that because they sold in so many variants, dust bags are forever available for those vacuums - which is a telling sign that not all Chinese vacs are crap. | ||
| Post# 284658 , Reply# 10 6/14/2014 at 20:21 (3,602 days old) by vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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And Mr Murray... You are 18 not 98, enjoy your youth and if you are lucky enough to make old age, you can take the chance to sound like me all you want to then. Most people your age wouldn't know what eccentric means, let alone become it. | ||
| Post# 284659 , Reply# 11 6/14/2014 at 20:24 (3,602 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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I don't think having a troubled industry has helped though. Some major brands required their heads examined. BLC/Austin Rover are a case in point. Even with Honda's ownership, the company looked as if they were on an even keel - buyers were happy to buy up Rover cars even though they knew that there was a Honda underneath. When Rover were sold to BMW and then ended up being wound down, I think that is when the problems began. By then the UK government could not save Britain's sole car brand.
It isn't just attitudes that have changed but also lifestyle and more women getting out of the home and leading careers. Even back in the 1980s when equality was finally becoming respected (note I don't mean understood or qualified as that occurred much earlier) brands were still using women for advertising vacuums, stay-at-home-products etc. | ||
| Post# 284665 , Reply# 13 6/14/2014 at 20:42 (3,602 days old) by marks_here (_._) | ||
The same thing here in the states too
I miss the same things you guys miss. I used to look forward every year for the new catalogues from different department stores to come out to see how each year model changed and what new or different brand they were carrying. I used to also look forward to going to them to see and try them out but now seems like everything's the same in each store. If you want diversity you have to go to a speciality store and pay high for them or wait for Ebay, Craigslist or any other placebo find what you're looking for. . I love the older well built machines that had a personality and they each sounded different, not like today's vacuums...they all sound the same. Also I would like if they all went back to making machines like they did back in the late 70's through the 80's ... They lasted and are now harder to find in decent condition. We're all in this together hang in there ..maybe if we protest..lol..they might get the message! Cheers guys!!! Mark D.
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| Post# 284678 , Reply# 14 6/14/2014 at 21:13 (3,602 days old) by marks_here (_._) | ||
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You know I was just thinking | ||
| Post# 284704 , Reply# 16 6/15/2014 at 05:26 (3,602 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 284756 , Reply# 17 6/15/2014 at 16:22 (3,601 days old) by Gr8DaneDad () | ||
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Aerus are still made in the US, except for the canister of the Platinum which is manufactured in the EU with final assembly in the US (different circuit boards and LCD screen) and the sidekicks which are now made in China. | ||
| Post# 284851 , Reply# 19 6/16/2014 at 02:19 (3,601 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Gizmos on vacs have been here before... | ||
| Post# 284854 , Reply# 20 6/16/2014 at 03:20 (3,601 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City) | ||
oliveoiltinfoil ...
... you have touched on only a tiny part of a much larger and deeper problem.
The one-word answer, unfortunately, is "no". Why? I can't speak for the U.K., but only for what I see here in the U.S. (which is most likely the same dynamic going on in all Western economies), but there are several factors at play: -- With the erosion of organized labor, worker bees have been losing control over the "say" they have in their jobs over the past generation. -- As a result, corporate owners have had no legal obligation to keep wages in pace with rising inflation and the astounding profits they've enjoyed over this period of time (and without a legal obligation, they sure as hell won't do it out of any sense of ethics, as we've all seen). -- Globalization and "free trade" agreements have made it almost a no-brainer for companies to move middle-class jobs into third world hellholes where they can hire labor for pennies on the dollar. -- Consumers' appetite for cheap third-world imports grows by leaps and bounds, thanks to tbeir ever-shrinking paychecks. -- Even companies run by ethical executives who choose to keep jobs in America are finding that paying AMERICANS a living wage to build their products puts their products at a nearly impossible competitive disadvantage against cheap imports, quality notwithstanding. | ||
| Post# 284855 , Reply# 21 6/16/2014 at 03:32 (3,601 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Matt has hit the nail right on the head.
It's all cost, I'm afraid. The fact of the matter is, it's so much cheaper to manufacture in Poland, China and other countries where wages and resources are lower and in greater demand. Whilst certain companies (Miele, Numatic, Sebo, Kirby, Aerus and Riccar to name a few) are proud of their herritage and continue to manufacture in their home countries, the majority aren't on board with them. Just take TTI as a prime example. They make UK Vax, US Hoover, Dirt Devil and a heap of cheap, bagless vacuums. Why would they move production out of the far east when it's so much cheaper to remain there and make larger profits? | ||
| Post# 284900 , Reply# 23 6/16/2014 at 13:51 (3,601 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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I still maintain that things are changing. It may take 10 years or more, but this "made in china" craze has been more of a bubble. These companies can not exploit cheap labour forever. As chinas economy is expanding, so are its living standards, along with wages they pay their workers. Even tight Chinese businessman cant hold off these environmentalist and human rights organisation forever. Apple recently said they had to double the wages they paid their workers at their foxconn plant in china, ultimately making it that less competitive a country to produce goods in.
And that's another thing. How come Riccar, Numatic, Miele and Sebo can still produce products in their native country, yet still be profitable and be able to expand? I have already said this but it is to do with automated assembly. The Miele factory in Germany which produces their washing machines is nearly all done by robots, even the packaging. Also, companies are getting more incentives from governments now to produce things in Britain, or the US. You buy a British and products, those profits go to the british company, who are able to pay their workers. That is one more tax payer, one more person who is able to support themselves. | ||
| Post# 284978 , Reply# 28 6/17/2014 at 05:10 (3,600 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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I agree Benny.
There has been a lot of comments from previous members on here who have slated the brand because of one or two problems with one specific model. However, I've been happy with TTI and I agree with their decision to take over Vax. Had TTI not taken over, Vax would either have wound down or taken over by Hoover Candy. One can only imagine how things "could have been." I think Vax are safer with TTI than Hoover Candy IMHO. | ||
| Post# 285055 , Reply# 30 6/17/2014 at 12:39 (3,600 days old) by Gr8DaneDad () | ||
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
| Post# 285068 , Reply# 32 6/17/2014 at 13:43 (3,600 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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£29, £39, £49, £59
Hi-LO, you're expecting the same cost price of all those cheap small bagged cylinder vacs that Argos used to sell in the 1990s.
For the cost price then, it simply 'aint gonna happen now. The recession has meant prices hikes have had to go up. The Daewoo model you speak of may well be a bargain but I bet finding bags will be hard on the high street. Unless you solely shop online, or you are that kind of a buyer, then yes it is probably a bargain. I thought the AFK model I bought from Makro many moons ago was a bargain - it came with free dust bags and then I learnt that sourcing bags for it to be a major problem! Hoover's 2.3 litre capacity Whirlwind cylinder vac at £59-99 is a budget special bargain. Okay, so it may not have the same capacity as the Daewoo but you can bet you'll be able to source bags for at a wider source of stockists; same with Electrolux and other brands. Some buyers are now beginning to realise that by buying the cheapest isn't the easiest in terms of added consumables required. Even with bagless vacs like Tesco or ASDA's own machines, obtaining a spare filter if the original one has perished can be difficult. I found the same with the Argos bagged upright - a terrific vacuum cleaner but unless I returned to Argos all the time (and not always in stock) to buy the bags or consider sellers online, there is no other clear or easy way to obtain dust bags for that model. | ||
| Post# 285089 , Reply# 34 6/17/2014 at 14:57 (3,599 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 285108 , Reply# 35 6/17/2014 at 16:12 (3,599 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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Metal extension pipes. | ||
| Post# 286203 , Reply# 37 6/25/2014 at 14:57 (3,591 days old) by DesertTortoise () | ||
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In decades past Sears advertised their vacuums just about everywhere. | ||
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