Thread Number: 25097
Hoover's new Sebo Rip off
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Post# 282051   5/27/2014 at 18:07 (3,592 days old) by hooverkid (PA,USA)        

hooverkid's profile picture
Everything from the finger tip on/off switch to the height control knob to the bag screams Sebo. To bad to see such a good company use another brands cleaner as there own,

CLICK HERE TO GO TO hooverkid's LINK


Post# 282052 , Reply# 1   5/27/2014 at 18:13 (3,592 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Sebos patent

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Ran out .

I own this machine it OUT cleans Sebo it has Windtunnel technology .

It was a gift from my great friend John Gregory of Sweeper central in Dunmore Pa.

Many machines are copied this was an improvement over a Sebo .

This has been out for a few years and is an awesome vacuum .


Dan


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Post# 282053 , Reply# 2   5/27/2014 at 18:24 (3,592 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 282054 , Reply# 3   5/27/2014 at 18:32 (3,592 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        
As has been said

The copyrights had expired. It happens all the time and not just with vacuum cleaners.

Post# 282057 , Reply# 4   5/27/2014 at 18:46 (3,592 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Not this old chestnut again...

sebo_fan's profile picture
See previous threads www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...

and

www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...

With the new SEBO 300 Evolution waiting in the wings, the Insight's days be limited : )


Post# 282058 , Reply# 5   5/27/2014 at 18:48 (3,592 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Sorry that should read MAY BE limited.

Post# 282060 , Reply# 6   5/27/2014 at 18:51 (3,592 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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If the implication of Windtunnel tech means two suction channels, does that mean the dust bags fill up more quickly?

Post# 282066 , Reply# 7   5/27/2014 at 19:39 (3,592 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Thank you

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Benny I am glad you read what I wrote ;)

Dan


Post# 282120 , Reply# 8   5/28/2014 at 11:24 (3,592 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

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If manufacturers didn't copy their competitors once a patent was expired, there would be NO revolving brush on any vacuum other than Hoover. There would be no disposable bag other than Air-Way. There would be no water filtration vacuum except Rexair (Rainbow). All great ideas began by being patented. Once a patent is up, anyone is free to use (and/or improve) a patented idea.

Apparently Hoover liked Sebo's durability under commercial use. They made their VERSION of the Sebo, with some of Hoover's patented features (like Windtunnel technology) to go along with it.


Post# 282145 , Reply# 9   5/28/2014 at 16:02 (3,591 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I wonder why patents are not renewed though?

Post# 282149 , Reply# 10   5/28/2014 at 16:36 (3,591 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
I thought patents only had a certain life span? Unless you patent slight changes to the original design doesn't that extend the patent period? Suppose there is only so many changes you can make to the original design!

Post# 282154 , Reply# 11   5/28/2014 at 17:21 (3,591 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The thing that gets me is that Hoover have far more designers and in house workmen to be able to design something around a design like the SEBO if their intention was to build something close to the design. What I wasn't expecting was something that SEBO could well sell themselves - it looks like a SEBO from a distance.

But then I am the owner of a Vax VCU02 - the model equivalent to Hoover's Signature bagged upright and itself a copy of an Oreck XL. Now of course they're all under the same roof of TTI, it doesn't make much of a difference - but TTI do not own SEBO...yet.



Post# 282210 , Reply# 12   5/29/2014 at 00:01 (3,591 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
yet......................... wait.

gottahaveahoove's profile picture
I know that HOOVER made a "convertible" not too long ago. It really was a Savvy. they HAD to keep "convertible" in circulationdue to a patent. THIS information came DIRECTLY from the mouths of HOOVER in Ohio.
The TTI designers in Ohio should listen to others, ourselves included. They need to stop mimmicking Dyson and come up with a fresh, new specimen. Everyone right now is "reinventing the wheel".... OR, the "BALL"


Post# 282220 , Reply# 13   5/29/2014 at 03:32 (3,591 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Well put it this way, I had a vax mach 8 or 7 uprights, the black one which claimed to have "windtunnel technology" and I literally could not see what it was, and certainly did not pick up anything like my felix. The brushroll are not firm enough and the bristles are too short, not to mention the build quality.

Post# 282276 , Reply# 14   5/29/2014 at 13:30 (3,590 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
I thought patents only had a certain life span?

turbo500's profile picture
That's true. That's why there are so many "no loss of suction" bagless cleaners on the market, because the patent on the original Dyson Dual Cyclone has expired.

Post# 282279 , Reply# 15   5/29/2014 at 13:56 (3,590 days old) by Vinvac (Dubuque IA)        

vinvac's profile picture
John,

I couldn't agree more...stop fixing something that is not broken.

Look at Kirby and Aerus, other than some minor body changes they still have some of best vacuums on the market...and still use bags...what a novel IDEA! Or how about the Sainitaire Upright...still will out clean almost anything on the market..old design...great product. Not to mention only a 6 or 7 amp motor...same with Kirby!

In a few years, they will change the design back to bagged and call it a new idea...

Look at Hoover in the early years...it made no difference which convertible you purchased, they would all clean the same because they used the same motor and brush roll...the only changes were bumper, cord length, handle grip and headlight...yet they had the consumer fooled that one machine cleaned better than the other....mind over matter...it cost more...so it must be better!

Same way I feel about many of the new machines, especially bagless...just because it has a clear bin and you can see the dirt, doesn't mean it is cleaning any better. Remember Lewyt and the bags with the dirt window so you could see how full the bag was without removing it.


Post# 282284 , Reply# 16   5/29/2014 at 14:36 (3,590 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I guess

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Someone missed HOOVERS new idea not mimicked by anyone ???

I will remind you with a picture of my gift from my dear friend John Gregory of Sweeper Central located in Dunmore Pa .

Hoover has revolutionized the vacuum market once again !!!

Even though we hate bag less the "CONSUMER" demands them so that's what is HOT now hopefully they get over it but I don't think it will be anytime soon.


Dan


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This post was last edited 05/29/2014 at 15:02
Post# 282293 , Reply# 17   5/29/2014 at 15:51 (3,590 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Now, come on Dan...

sebo_fan's profile picture
Didn't we comment the last time on the Eureka Freedom / Electrolux Contour cordless upright in the mid 1990s? You yourself said it had a short charge - so this "new" Hoover isn't exactly new when a bagged upright that was cordless appeared some 20 years before...?

Dont get me wrong, I think this new cordless Hoover is a good idea, but it can't be full size based on its 1.5 capacity and the mere fact that it is an upright with a moving brush bar means that it may be a first for a modern upright, but I dont think it is that original.

And then there's the Hoover Windtunnel Linx / Vax U91-LF-B LiFE cordless upright stick that has one of the larger capacties of 1.4 litres. AEG's Ergorapido models have far smaller dust cups.


Post# 282351 , Reply# 18   5/30/2014 at 10:37 (3,590 days old) by ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        
Why parents aren't renewable...

ultralux88's profile picture
The purpose of a patent is to allow the manufacturer to have an exclusive on the idea for a period of time to recover the costs of research, development, and such. It's their time to basically receive the reward for coming up with it. Once it's up it's it's for everyone.

Post# 282353 , Reply# 19   5/30/2014 at 10:45 (3,590 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

why parents aren't renewable - lol, and very true


Post# 282357 , Reply# 20   5/30/2014 at 12:06 (3,589 days old) by tommymilan (milano)        

tommymilan's profile picture
Hello Guys... at least Sebos are made in Germany, I don't think that it is a bad thing buying good appliances from other company that make still manufacture good cleaners, of course it's a pity that Hoover doesn't put any energy in developing their own vacuum cleaners with a certain design and a certain quality. Very sad for a Company whose name is synonimous of vacuum cleaner.
Greetings,
Tommy


Post# 282367 , Reply# 21   5/30/2014 at 13:44 (3,589 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Hoover

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Improved on Sebos design the Hoover is a much better machine soon to be built right here in the US .

Dan


Post# 282378 , Reply# 22   5/30/2014 at 17:48 (3,589 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
"Right here in the U.S"

super-sweeper's profile picture

I await that acheivement of which waits a long way down the road! (Or Carpet!tongue-out)


Post# 283555 , Reply# 23   6/7/2014 at 01:42 (3,582 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Remember Sebo owes many of it's designs, features and even quite a bit of actual hardware, to Windsor. Also, ever see an upright vacuum from Fakir?

Post# 283564 , Reply# 24   6/7/2014 at 04:57 (3,582 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Actually no, SEBO entered a contract agreement with Windsor in 1979 to supply models to them.

Post# 283580 , Reply# 25   6/7/2014 at 10:22 (3,582 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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When Sebo were starting out, they made a lot of their machines on licence or contract to other firms.

Certainly in the UK, the Sebo 350 (and many of the 360's) were never branded "Sebo", but were branded as the cleaning company's name or other names, even though they were all made by Sebo.


Post# 283581 , Reply# 26   6/7/2014 at 10:24 (3,582 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
ever see an upright vacuum from Fakir?

turbo500's profile picture
Yes.

The older, soft bag models were made by Philips, and the current models are made by Nilco. They're nothing to do with Sebo.


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Post# 283585 , Reply# 27   6/7/2014 at 11:04 (3,582 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Correct, but like German autos, some design features seem to be common to German manufactures rather than particular to one manufacturer. German customers have different expectations of the products they buy, their durability, ergonomics etc., than many other nations do. German cars all have a certain feel to them born of the necessity of being controllable running at high speeds most other nations do not permit. It appears the German housewife has similar expectations of her vacuum, lol. High performance machines! Just be glad we have that albeit expensive alternative to the mass market Chinese made, um, "stuff" populating most big box stores display floors.

I was not aware that Windsor bought vacuums from Sebo. Have to research their history a bit more.


Post# 283604 , Reply# 28   6/7/2014 at 13:30 (3,581 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Actually, the German market as well as quite a few other European countries favour the canister/cylinder vacuum style rather than the upright. SEBO started out as a commercial brand to develop an upright for that market, and though they have a domestic line, they still hold the market in Europe at least, for commercial uprights.

High performance is just another aspect Germans have managed to add out of their precision and detail- their first principle in my mind is reliability and build quality.

However, Bosch of Germany produce vacuums in China. But they are better built than a lot of the "big box bagless" brands IMHO.


Post# 283958 , Reply# 29   6/10/2014 at 11:16 (3,579 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

German electronics are starting to scare me. They add complexity for the sake of complexity, and that wouldn't necessarily be bad if it always worked. It doesn't. It is like SAP enterprise software. Anyone here ever had the misfortune of having an employer decide to employ SAP? Never let Germans write software. Nein, ist verbotten! Now their "best" cars are plagued by frequent, expensive failures of complex electronics running on glitchy, non-intuitive German software coded in German abbreviations that you have to be a native speaker to understand and remember. Nein, danke (and this is coming from someone with two pre CAN-Bus Audis, three 1980's vintage BMW motorcycles and a pair of Windsor vacuums in the garge). Japanese and American products are much more stable and reliable, even if they are not as technically sexy.

Post# 283972 , Reply# 30   6/10/2014 at 13:27 (3,578 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The beauty of SEBO is that, in terms of the X uprights (and Windsor equivalents) they were all designed to be able to be fixed easily by the owner rather than have the model sent back to the manufacturer.

Post# 283985 , Reply# 31   6/10/2014 at 15:37 (3,578 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

That is true, and one of the reasons I replaced the old Hoover U-boat with a Windsor. Routine repairs and maintenance are easily accomplished and it has a very high quality feel. Our housekeeping staff use and abuses them daily and I see their utility and durability first hand. It's a quality piece.

Still the sensor can be a little too clever sometimes (shuts me down on deep carpet even with the height setting on 4 unless I handle the vacuum just so) and I don't look forward to trying to trouble shoot a problem related to the circuit card or the sensor. I see vacuums now selling a "dirt finder" feature, and not just German vacuums. Really? I'm a Felix Unger in a world of Oscar Madisons. My house is clean but I don't have even a little bit of trouble finding dirt for my vacuum to suck up. Complexity for the sake of complexity. Same thing for the automatic height adjustment feature. Why? You can't turn a dial on the floor attachment? You can't figure out what setting to use? My mom could do this and you can't? Really? Good grief. It's why I hang on to my old Kenmore canister bombers.


Post# 283993 , Reply# 32   6/10/2014 at 16:07 (3,578 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well... IMHO the only successful height adjusters I've ever used and are quite durable are the heel types offered on the Hoover Senior (Convertible) and Hoover Junior side adjusters. The middle ones set on modern hoods don't tend to last long on European uprights. Either the slider types or dials - they often break because owners forget that most can't be switched when the upright is being used and the handle has to be put in the locked position. That to me is a waste of time and not convenient.

Auto height adjustment for some uprights don't have anything at all and by scientific means purely use the science of naturall vacuum suction airflow between the brush, sole plate and carpet pile height.

I am surprised by the Sensor on the SEBO with the manual model though. I know the sensor can be disabled simply by pulling out the chip from the motherboard, but whether that affects the height adjustment dial at the side, Im not that sure.

Dirt finder plates have been fitted for vacuums from the 1970s. Its a fancy thing that only gives those who are OCD cleanliness, peace of mind IMHO.


Post# 283996 , Reply# 33   6/10/2014 at 16:34 (3,578 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

My BMW 528i is a 1996 and it better not ever die.... I won't buy a new one and I'd have to hunt up one no newer than 1999 to avoid just such complex electronics for the sake of complexity. Mine is bad enough, but at least I can still connect to the damn thing and read and understand the codes and reprogram as necessary. Not possible on new ones... Love my car but I will go elsewhere if I need a new one.

 

It's the reason I don't use my Aerus Platinum... I like to tinker and there isn't anything to tinker with. I've been awarded several as rewards for sales goals, one to my mom, my brother and his wife, a cousin and my best friend and I have two in the vacuum room, one NIB and the other has not been used other to show to someone and one trip around the room when I unpacked it. I love the vacuum, but everything is controlled by circuit boards and sensors - takes some of the attraction away.



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