Thread Number: 25031
Kenmore PowerMate Canister Vacuum 29229
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Post# 281468   5/22/2014 at 15:26 (3,598 days old) by TASE (Colorado)        

tase's profile picture
I bought something I did not need! It is the green Kenmore PowerMate canister! I had $120 in my Sears account from returning an item and stumble across this canister.

After my Rainbow broke (it needs about $30 worth of parts to get working, but it's aacting weird right now) I was looking for an abuse canister. This Kenmore looked pretty robust but only time will tell. I'll post some pictures of it when I get home but here's a picture of the box.


Post# 281479 , Reply# 1   5/22/2014 at 17:18 (3,598 days old) by cuffs054 (monticello, ga)        

TASE, you might want to look at my post 25013.

Post# 281490 , Reply# 2   5/22/2014 at 18:54 (3,598 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        
Nice!

fan-of-fans's profile picture
I bought one when they had them on sale for $99, but I haven't used it, looked at it and packed it back in the box. I like the color and shape, and how they have features that remind me of the older models.

Post# 281508 , Reply# 3   5/22/2014 at 22:16 (3,598 days old) by TASE (Colorado)        

tase's profile picture

I am AMAZED at how well this vacuum cleans!

 

It groomed the carpet similarly to my Kirby and had amazing air flow, but I feel that it didn't clean it as well as my Kirby Sentria.

 

Still, for $140, it is amazing!

 

Cuffs, my PowerMate has been acting fine. Literally no problems.


Post# 281514 , Reply# 4   5/22/2014 at 23:36 (3,598 days old) by BikerRay (Middle Earth)        

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It's a nice unit made by Panasonic

Post# 281541 , Reply# 5   5/23/2014 at 08:14 (3,597 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
I actually like mine, works fine.

Post# 281544 , Reply# 6   5/23/2014 at 08:28 (3,597 days old) by cuffs054 (monticello, ga)        

I found the parts diagram for this unit and it does indeed have a circuit board. Replacement is not expensive so I think I'll give it a try. We've had this vac for a number of years and performance has been great!

Post# 281552 , Reply# 7   5/23/2014 at 10:02 (3,597 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
I should confess, I did modify mine to allow more exhaust out the filter and run cooler, seemed to help. 6 1/4" holes drilled into the exhaust cover lets off some pressure and I do use the machine a lot.

Post# 281555 , Reply# 8   5/23/2014 at 10:19 (3,597 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
My mistake, I drilled 4 holes. As simple as this machine is I can't imagine it having a circuit board on this model.2 mechanical switches seem to handle any function.

Post# 281571 , Reply# 9   5/23/2014 at 15:38 (3,597 days old) by cuffs054 (monticello, ga)        

Suck, can you post pix of the holes? Mine does run hot which probably speeded the demise of the circuit board.

Post# 281577 , Reply# 10   5/23/2014 at 16:45 (3,597 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
I had just noticed a lot of back pressure when I pulled the top flap off and a lot going out the cord winder, so I relieved some pressure, not much more noise that I can tell. See if I can get a pic

Post# 281578 , Reply# 11   5/23/2014 at 16:50 (3,597 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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Hope this pic helps

  View Full Size
Post# 281603 , Reply# 12   5/23/2014 at 20:49 (3,597 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        
cuffs054

kirbylux77's profile picture
If I was you, I wouldn't bother repairing your vacuum if it's already a few years old. Like I said to you in the other thread, just unplug the hose from the canister & that will solve your problem, just use it like that till your vacuum dies. By the time you invest money in the circuit board, if it's over 5 years old you'll likely only get another year or two before it dies completely & needs replacement. The motors in the Kenmore/Panasonic canisters are very problematic & have a short lifespan, you're lucky to get 5 or 6 years out of one of those motors. If you remove the prefilter & look at your motor, if there's a white plastic guard around the fan opening of your motor, that is one of the problematic motors used in recent years.

When your vacuum dies, or if you insist on replacing it now, I would look at getting the Perfect C101 canister vacuum. It's a copy of the metal bodied Electrolux canister vacuums, but with a super-charged Mexican made Ametek double stage motor that pulls 120" waterlift, a LOT more than your Kenmore. It's literally just like having a portable central vac! They also sell a 30 foot non-electric hose kit for it so you can do stairs & leave the canister at the bottom, or any other application where having a super long hose would be handy. The vacuum can use regular Electrolux style C paper bags, or you can purchase HEPA cloth bags for great filtration & longer lasting performance between bag changes. The only downsides is the price is a bit steep....expect to pay about $900 for it....but you're getting a proven design that's going to last you at least 15-20 years before any problems arise, & Perfect Products gives a 5 year warranty on the vacuum, which is longer than most. As they say "You get what you pay for". Plus they don't have the Automatic Control bag change system that Electrolux was famous for; since Aerus still uses this feature on their vacuums & holds a patent on it, Perfect can't copy it & use it on theirs. If you do decide to buy the Perfect, be sure you buy it from a regular vac shop or you buy it directly from Perfect Products....if you buy it from a online Internet retailer, Perfect Products won't honor the warranty, & you will have to rely on any warranty the retailer gives you.

Another option is to purchase a used Electrolux canister thru your local classified ads, a local vac shop or Ebay. The best models to look at would be the Automatic G, Model L, 1205, Golden J, Super J, Olympia One & Silverado models. Electrolux used to manufacture their own motors before changing their name to Aerus & they sold the motor manufacturing division, which is still in existence to this day & called Electro Motor, based in Tennesee. These models used the motors that Electrolux was famous for....literally bullet proof! Very hard to kill one of these old motors! The Marquise, Grand Marquise & Ultralux models, as well as all the plastic bodied canisters, would also be worth looking at, but after 1985, motor quality started to decline....still very good, but not quite as good as before, plus the carbon brushes can't be changed in the newer style motor either, whereas all models before the Diamond Jubilee you could change the carbon brushes. If the motor has a black plastic top that houses the top bearing & carbon brush holders, that's the motor the carbon brushes can't be changed on. Models I would avoid would be the late Silverado that came with the L shaped PN5 & the Diamond Jubilee....Electrolux had introduced a motor with these models that proved VERY problematic & a lot of them had to be replaced prematurely under warranty. They had resolved the motor problems with the introduction of the Marquise, though. I would also avoid the Rennaissance & Guardian....the Rennaissance had a hose with touch controls that can break easily & require replacement, which was fixed with the Guardian by using toggle switches on the hose. Also, the Rennaissance & Guardian used the VM3 single stage motor, which while good was not one of their better designs & has a shorter lifespan than their other motors. If you do buy a Automatic G, Model L, 1205, Golden J, Super J, Olympia One or Silverado, I would suggest having the carbon brushes replaced in the motor, they can be found on Ebay & do it yourself at home. By now, the motor would be old enough where there wouldn't be much length left on the carbon brushes & would need replacing soon anyways. Also, if it has the cloth hose, I would replace it with a new vinyl hose....by now, the cloth hose would be very leaky & not provide good suction/airflow, plus the aftermarket hoses have a on/off switch for the PN, which is nice to have. And although the original power nozzles would clean well (provided the brushroll is adjusted properly & in good condition), I would also suggest buying the Perfect L-shaped power nozzle to use with your Electrolux....the L-shaped PN does seem to groom the carpet a bit better than their previous designs. Having said that, buying the Perfect power nozzle or a new Aerus power nozzle would be preferable over a used Electrolux power nozzle, as Aerus introduced a new chevron-style roller for the L-shaped PN that has a extra turn of bristles & has slightly better grooming than the previous design; Perfect also uses this brushroll in their PN. Expect to pay between $150-$200 for Perfect PN, that seems to be what most online retailers are asking.

Rob


Post# 281610 , Reply# 13   5/23/2014 at 21:55 (3,597 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

Or you could just buy a new brushroll for $10 and use any PN5 or later....


Post# 281612 , Reply# 14   5/23/2014 at 22:00 (3,597 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
no white plastic guard here, metal

Post# 281631 , Reply# 15   5/24/2014 at 02:52 (3,597 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Don't count on a Mexican made Ametek motor to last as long as the older US made ones did.Have seen a lot of Mexican made motors get replaced after dying in vac shops.

Post# 281641 , Reply# 16   5/24/2014 at 07:44 (3,596 days old) by cuffs054 (monticello, ga)        

Kirby, the problem is that pulling the hose DOESNT fix the issue. It will continue to start/run even without the hose! The new board isn't all that expensive and might give me a couple hours playtime.

Post# 287934 , Reply# 17   7/9/2014 at 13:24 (3,550 days old) by themaincomputer ()        
Power Switch

Hi,

Does any one know how to get to the power switch? Mine is flaky but I can't seem to figure out how to get the cover off the back where the switch is.

Thanks


Post# 287959 , Reply# 18   7/9/2014 at 14:36 (3,550 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

I have to disagree with Kirbylux. I think repairing vacuums you already have is much more economical than junking them and buying a new one. Same thing for powered brushes. Often you can use the failures as an opportunity to fix a flaw by using a better quality replacement component. Example, when 1980's vintage Kenmore powered brushes start to go I replace the motors with current production, quieter motors and newer brush designs used in Hayde/Nutone/Centec brushes and newer Powermates. The new components drop right into even three decade old Powermates. I am in the process of rebuilding a very old Kenmore Powermate with current production Hayden parts because I can obtaind the swivel and associated components from Hayden in ivory to match the original parts while all Sears is now selling are gray parts. The Hayden parts drop right in. Panasonic hasn't changed the basic design in over three decades. How much is a new one compared to fixing the old one?

I would replace that circuit card in a New York heartbeat and continue to use the vac. Pay attention to using good HEPA bags and keep the filters clean to protect the motor for as long as possible. If the motor does go, find a replacement from Ametek-Lamb instead of the lower quality Chinese motor when possible. Don't be afraid to e-mail Ametek-Lamb and find out what they have for your application. They are helpful. If not, eBay is your friend. Lots of motors available at very reasonable prices. A motor is a wear item, and wearing one out to me is not a good reason to throw an otherwise functional vacuum away. If you don't abuse the vac or break parts it ought to last a very long time.


Post# 287967 , Reply# 19   7/9/2014 at 14:46 (3,550 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        
@Tolivac

kirbylux77's profile picture
Yes, true, Mexican made motors wouldn't last as long as good old American made motors. But would you rather have a Chinese made motor that would last an even shorter length of time? I personally would take the Mexican made motor.

@Gr8DaneDad....Yes, you could just put the new updated chevron brushroll into an old Electrolux PN5/PN6. But, when the new chevron brushroll was introduced, Aerus also increased the amps the PN motor uses, so it is also turns at a higher RPM than the old PN5/PN6 with the original brushroll. Also, considering that to buy a used PN5/PN6 off Ebay, plus a new chevron brushroll & belt, it would be getting pretty close to what a new Perfect L-shaped PN would cost anyways. So why buy something old when for a few dollars more you could buy brand new & have a warranty, & have a PN that would last years longer?

Rob


Post# 287979 , Reply# 20   7/9/2014 at 15:15 (3,550 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

I would have to disagree, most Electrolux vacuums on the secondary market are sold with the PN even when no other attachments are present and the brush rolls, though not genuine Aerus are available for as little as $10 shipped and I've got 20+ year old original Electrolux PN's still going strong with the new brushroll and the PN that came with my Perfect C101 was replaced twice under warranty by Perfect and the last time the motor failed after 2 years use... and the replacement cost is upwards of $150 and that buys a Lux PN, a new, updated motor and several replacement brush rolls. Just my experience with the Perfect PN. However, I do love the power of that Ametek motor and have replaced the failed motor in my Marquise with one.

 


Post# 287990 , Reply# 21   7/9/2014 at 17:55 (3,550 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

I saw an image of the Ametek Lamb motor used in those Perfects and it didn't look to me to be any higher quality than the Chinese sourced motors used in new Kenmore canister vacs. It's admittedly hard to tell but the brushes don't appear to be changeable, and the upper bearing support is a very small metal stamping.

Here is a link to an image:

bigclickbuy.com/product.phpQUESTI...

Doesn't look like much, does it. Then I pulled up the Ametek Lamb bulletin for that motor:

dev.ametekfsm.com/Bulletins/12209...

557 air watts, 123.8 CFM airflow and 133.6 inches of water lift. Geez-Louise! That puts the mighty 115923 on the trailer. What the hay is going on here?


Post# 288187 , Reply# 22   7/11/2014 at 10:02 (3,548 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

DT,

 

You are correct that the brushes aren't replaceable and the upper bearing support is unimpressive. If I weren't able to source this at near wholesale, I'd likely pass. But it is an incredible performer, relatively quiet and at something south of $100 (well south), much better than most of the replacement motors available on the market that will fit the last generation of metal canister lux machines, and with a bit of creativity all the way back to the 1205....

 

Tom


Post# 288194 , Reply# 23   7/11/2014 at 10:19 (3,548 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Heck, for under $100 you can afford to wear a few motors out over the years! I have paid a C note for a good used Kenmore canister.

I still can't get over the air flow and water lift numbers. I also have to think it is rebuildable and with some disassembly brushes could be replaced, just not as easily as we are accustomed to with more traditional Lamb motors.

I just pulled apart an older Kemore 9 amp canister (see my post in the Vintage section titled the "Kenmore High Desert Restoration Center" that looks to have been built during the Whispertone era, though it's layout is like the previous generation canisters with the motor oriented vertically. That one also has a tiny little motor that doesn't appear to have easily replaced brushs. Not sure who makes the motor, there is a cardboard cover over most of the skeleton and I haven't determined how to remove it without damaging it. Plastic covers look pretty good compared to this cardboard stuff.


Post# 288231 , Reply# 24   7/11/2014 at 15:07 (3,548 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

D-T...

Everything is possible, sometimes just not practical.



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